patrick.net

Does it really matter? Whatever you choose will be "dated" in a few years and you will have to wait for the fashion trend to come full circle.

I think people just like to tear out old stuff and put in new stuff, whether the old stuff is attractive and functional or not.

I like watching HGTV, but man, they want to demolish and re-do everything, probably for the advertisers/sponsors/designers.

Yea - I read an article that said that stainless appliances were "out."

Depends on the house layout.
If you have vaulted ceilings then an open kitchen lay out is a must.
When I was house shopping it was so obvious when investors bought a house, they ripped out walls to make the kitchen look open. But what it ends up looking like is a small efficiency apartment, where the couch, bed and kitchen is all in the same room.

Yes let's require a separate room for every activity. Everyone needs a formal dining room, a breakfast nook, a sitting room, a living room, a den, a rec room, a library, a study, and perhaps a room to smoke cigars and drink brandy.

Ceffer says

Whatever you choose will be "dated" in a few years

To be fair, open kitchens are more than a passing trend. They've been around since the '50s.

House flippers know this sells houses. It's such a shame to walk through a '20s Spanish Revival that has had the center-hall plan ripped to shreds and the dining/living/kitchen all turned into one big rumpus room. Some houses just don't need this, and not everybody's life centers on the toils of kitchen labor.

Vicente says

let's require a separate room for every activity

Sex dungeon, gift-wrapping suite, "home-business" tax deduct-able office, scrap-booking studio, herbs-n-spices hothouse, etc. . . .

Call it Crazy says

a lot of households don't cook much anymore

It's all part of the BS story we tell ourselves--marked decrease in home cooking and yet HGTV would have you believe everybody must have a $100k kitchen to get by in today's roses-and-lollipops world.

You like your granite countertop? You can keep it.

elliemae says

Are open kitchens a thing of the past?

Is this anything grilling out in the garage with the garage door open?

I like the kitchen to be in a separate building, at the back of the yard or down the street, so the house won't smell like the most garlic-heavy meal cooked in the past 20 years.

Carpets can keep the smell of a spice-laced meal for years.

Cabron Del Hydro says

I like the kitchen to be in a separate building, at the back of the yard or down the street, so the house won't smell like the most garlic-heavy meal cooked in the past 20 years.

Carpets can keep the smell of a spice-laced meal for years.

I lived next to a crematorium in my younger days. They fired up the works every other night or so. It was not an unpleasant aroma.

I used to sit & get drunk in the tub with the windows open on cooler nights and wonder who was always having a cookout until the neighbor explained to me the nature of the business that was next door.

JodyChunder says

Cabron Del Hydro says

I like the kitchen to be in a separate building, at the back of the yard or down the street, so the house won't smell like the most garlic-heavy meal cooked in the past 20 years.

Carpets can keep the smell of a spice-laced meal for years.

I lived next to a crematorium in my younger days. They fired up the works every other night or so. It was not an unpleasant aroma.

I used to sit & get drunk in the tub with the windows open on cooler nights and wonder who was always having a cookout until the neighbor explained to me the nature of the business that was next door.

The smell of....Victory, and Cannibal Anarchy!

When I rebuilt my Dad's house it was a challenge to have a kitchen which was open yet could be closed off when necessary (e.g. noise, smoke, ambiance, whatever).

My solution was double solid core pocket doors between the kitchen and hallway. Normally they were left open which left a nice wide opening and no open doors to get in the way of the hallway yet the doors could be closed at a moments notice.

Cabron Del Hydro says

Carpets can keep the smell of a spice-laced meal for years.

You don't clean much do you?

Some of us still cook every night, and enjoy it. (: I like the smell of our house when I cook. Oddly enough though, I cook every night and I do it in a very small kitchen with an old oven from the seventies, a very good hand made knife, solid cutting board, basic grill and kitchen aid, and honestly that is all one needs. My knife cost more than anything in my kitchen, and I more than get by. It's funny, my friends who hardly cook, (and when they do you wonder why) have gigantic kitchens, wolf appliances, islands the size of my kitchen and all the gimmicks.

hrhjuliet says

It's funny, my friends who hardly cook, (and when they do you wonder why) have gigantic kitchens, wolf appliances, islands the size of my kitchen and all the gimmicks.

It's also funny to listen to people I know with all the massive and expensive show off appliances complain about how unreliable they are. Some of them could serve mass meals for the homeless, but the stuff sits there mostly unused for show.

hrhjuliet says

It's funny, my friends who hardly cook, (and when they do you wonder why) have gigantic kitchens, wolf appliances, islands the size of my kitchen and all the gimmicks.

I hear ya. I've got a 1951 Magic Chef that's never let me down, two camping mugs, a couple of beer goblets and several good knives. I'm in good shape.

hrhjuliet says

Some of us still cook every night, and enjoy it. (: I like the smell of our house when I cook. Oddly enough though, I cook every night and I do it in a very small kitchen with an old oven from the seventies, a very good hand made knife, solid cutting board, basic grill and kitchen aid, and honestly that is all one needs. My knife cost more than anything in my kitchen, and I more than get by. It's funny, my friends who hardly cook, (and when they do you wonder why) have gigantic kitchens, wolf appliances, islands the size of my kitchen and all the gimmicks.

I was once stuck with a complete POS oven that had no temperature control. We're talking swings of +/- 50F along with hot and cold spots. I'd cook a pizza and have half burn and the other half was still doughy. That oven make it hard to cook a decent meal.

That said I've noticed on the travel cooking shows that some of the best meals come from the most primitive of kitchens. I think the secret there is thermal mass - you always see a big iron cauldron or a thick plate of steel in the form of a griddle or cast iron stove.

Ceffer says

It's also funny to listen to people I know with all the massive and expensive show off appliances complain about how unreliable they are.

I have noticed consumer reports usually has the most expensive brands as the most unreliable *cough* JennAir *cough*.

I think having really good knives is more indicative of a good cook than a phalanx of expensive, showy appliances.

Call it Crazy says

Ceffer says

I think having really good knives is more indicative of a good cook than a phalanx of expensive, showy appliances.

.... or a well equipped murderer....

Reminds me, the TV series Hannibal is slated to start again soon. Gourmands should watch his techniques, looks like he is a master chef and ready for cannibal anarchy to boot!

Call it Crazy says

Ceffer says

I think having really good knives is more indicative of a good cook than a phalanx of expensive, showy appliances.

.... or a well equipped murderer....

You were saying?:

Here's a list of what's inside:
http://www.therpf.com/f9/dexters-kill-bag-tools-107469/

Vicente says

Yes let's require a separate room for every activity. Everyone needs a formal dining room, a breakfast nook, a sitting room, a living room, a den, a rec room, a library, a study, and perhaps a room to smoke cigars and drink brandy.

Let's not forget the second tiny kitchen for cooking meth. I toured a house with one of those in Ben Lomond. It smelled of urine and had a ladder leading to the main house through a trap door and a tiny makeshift hallway.

Honestly, a good hand crafted carbon steel knife was the best cooking investment I ever made. I never use any other knife now. I had a top of the line set and block as a wedding gift, but after the carbon steel one made by a Bay Area smith, I gave away that whole set (except one) to a friend because they ended up just taking up space. I just put our butternut lasagna in the oven and all I used was the knife, my cast iron skillet and the oven. Who needs a fancy kitchen? (:

We have a model house in our neighborhood. It has sat there on sale for three years. All other models have sold, even ones with much less desirable lots, and features. The only thing that sets this house apart is that is has a closed kitchen. The exact same house with an open kitchen sold for more. If the builder would just open up the kitchen it would sell. The builder even mention that a wall could be brought down to open up the kitchen on the website, so they are aware that it is a problem. I'm sure they built it reading that this was a growing trend, but in reality I don't think many people like it. I would never buy a house with a closed floor plan, especially the kitchen. I have lived in a few, and they just felt small cramped and not welcoming. Open floor plans can make even a very small house feel very large, airy and have a better flow to them. Sometimes it is a pain because with the openness you feel like it has to stay pretty neat, but on the flip side I think that can be a motivator to keep the house tidy!

New Renter says

Call it Crazy says

Ceffer says

I think having really good knives is more indicative of a good cook than a phalanx of expensive, showy appliances.

.... or a well equipped murderer....

You were saying?:

Here's a list of what's inside:

http://www.therpf.com/f9/dexters-kill-bag-tools-107469/

Dexter is so wasteful, never eats what he kills. His knivfesmanship is usually a single, sharp stroke.

rufita11 says

Let's not forget the second tiny kitchen for cooking meth. I toured a house with one of those in Ben Lomond. It smelled of urine and had a ladder leading to the main house through a trap door and a tiny makeshift hallway.

And you didn't buy it? What's WRONG with you?

jag788 says

and they just felt small cramped and not welcoming.

Nothing that adequate square footage couldn't help. I live in a postwar boom suburban 2/1 under 1000 square feet, which is cracker boxy, open kitchen or not. If the kitchen is even partially walled, it is easier to exhaust cooking smells from the kitchen so they don't have to permeate the house.

Another thing... I grew up in a house with an open kitchen/living area. There is also the factor of kitchen sounds in the same room as the TV or conversation area. Clanging pots, chopping, blending, more clanging, sink running, can opener, oven door, cabinets, microwave beeping and slamming, dishes clinking and clattering; the TV and conversation keeps getting louder and louder... Calgon, take me away! Then when all is said and done with the kitchen activities, the sound of the dishwasher running on. What was the advantage of an open kitchen again?

jag788 says

Open floor plans can make even a very small house feel very large, airy and have a better flow to them. Sometimes it is a pain because with the openness you feel like it has to stay pretty neat, but on the flip side I think that can be a motivator to keep the house tidy!

The problem with most open floorplans is sound transmission. Its a pain to have to hear dinner being made or the kids screaming when you are trying to focus on watching TV. Even worse when late at night you have to keep the sound down to almost inaudible levels because due to the unique layout of your home the TV is louder in the bedroom than in the family room.

EDIT:

Automan Empire says

Another thing... I grew up in a house with an open kitchen/living area. There is also the factor of kitchen sounds in the same room as the TV or conversation area. Clanging pots, chopping, blending, more clanging, sink running, can opener, oven door, cabinets, microwave beeping and slamming, dishes clinking and clattering; the TV and conversation keeps getting louder and louder... Calgon, take me away! Then when all is said and done with the kitchen activities, the sound of the dishwasher running on. What was the advantage of an open kitchen again?

Damn, you beat me to it!

New Renter says

Even worse when late at night you have to keep the sound down to almost inaudible levels because due to the unique layout of your home the TV is louder in the bedroom than in the family room.

I almost hate to say it, but every man needs a shed or a garage to repair to from his woman. It's just plain good medicine in any marriage. Never mind that man cave bullshit -- you need a proper space set up someplace in an outbuilding with a wood lathe, some tunes, a small fridge and at least one questionable lamp.

Please trust me on this!

JodyChunder says

New Renter says

Even worse when late at night you have to keep the sound down to almost inaudible levels because due to the unique layout of your home the TV is louder in the bedroom than in the family room.

I almost hate to say it, but every man needs a shed or a garage to repair to from his woman. It's just plain good medicine in any marriage. Never mind that man cave bullshit -- you need a proper space set up someplace in an outbuilding with a wood lathe, some tunes, a small fridge and at least one questionable lamp.

Please trust me on this!

Oh, I do.

I had such a garage throughout my adolescent and teenage years. I spent many a winter night on a freezing cold garage floor turning a wrench with my dad.

In fact it was in part this experience which showed without a doubt that my new girlfriend (now wife) was indeed "the one" for me. Anyone who appreciates the expression "HOLD THE LIGHT!" is a keeper!

New Renter says

In fact it was in part this experience which showed without a doubt that my new girlfriend (now wife) was indeed "the one" for me. Anyone who appreciates the expression "HOLD THE LIGHT!" is a keeper!

The finest class of women I ever had were always the ones who'd pump the brakes whenever I was doing a brake job, or help me trim down a gasket or fetch me a socket. In my experience, tomboys make the best of friends, and the best wives.

Call it Crazy says

New Renter says

Anyone who appreciates the expression "HOLD THE LIGHT!" is a keeper!

I thought it was "Hold my tool".....

A woman who knows how to talk dirty in the garage. "Ratchet my socket, grease monkey!"

JodyChunder says

New Renter says

In fact it was in part this experience which showed without a doubt that my new girlfriend (now wife) was indeed "the one" for me. Anyone who appreciates the expression "HOLD THE LIGHT!" is a keeper!

The finest class of women I ever had were always the ones who'd pump the brakes whenever I was doing a brake job, or help me trim down a gasket or fetch me a socket. In my experience, tomboys make the best of friends, and the best wives.

Well my wife can build and maintain an ultrahigh vacuum chamber with the best of 'em. She's also the "go to" gal for any machine work and using aqua regia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_regia

New Renter says

aqua regia

Better be nice to her, wouldn't want to wind up like Phantom of the Opera.

I also hate all this open concept crap. It's all about making something look bigger than it really is.

Ceffer says

New Renter says

aqua regia

Better be nice to her, wouldn't want to wind up like Phantom of the Opera.

Well should it come to THAT I have plenty of sodium hydroxide based drain cleaner.

hrhjuliet says

Who needs a fancy kitchen?

Fro me the appeal of a "fancy" kitchen is not to make tastier food but to be much easier to keep clean. Old grout is a huge PITA to keep clean, a scratched up sink takes a long time to make passable. Old ovens and cooktops are always nasty looking as are most older kitchen cabinets. It can take all day to clean up a banged up kitchen.

A nice smoothtop electric range OTOH is inherently easier to clean than an old coil model. Ovens with hidden heating elements are easy too. Granite countertops are much easier to clean than old tile with !@#$%@#$ grout.

There are multiple psychological reasons and, uh, social developments behind why kitchens became open to the living room.

1. there is hardly any cooking going on, so no mess needs to be hidden.

2. there is hardly any cooking going on, so if by any chance there is, everyone has to watch and say oooooh aaaaah in unison.

3. there is hardly any cooking going, so instead the kitchen is just a showplace and status symbol.

4. certain elements of the household have gained the legal upper hand over the rest and like to lord over the peasants from their preferred command central (kitchen, anyone?). But you have to be able to view the peasants from the command central. Hence open kitchen.

In a different universe, we might have the Open Garage instead. But not for long. There will be one giant SUV and a small Prius. Guess who drives what? Forget that idea.

Open kitchens are great - you can cook and watch TV from the living room at the same time. I had open kitchen in my last rental and in the current place that I own and cannot imagine going back to compartmentalized prison kitchen of the decades past.