patrick.net

"We found that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with ill-conceived stimulus policies."

Yea remember those prescient words. I'm starting to believe in reincarnation or deja vu or both...

46 CDon 2014 Mar 8, 1:06am

It was started by excessive credit back in the 20s. Similar to our situation now was started by Greenspan creating excessive credit.

That's fine... I only asked because ive seen people say FDR started the GD and then defend that statement to the bitter end - so I was curious to see if you were one of those people.

However, seeing as your response made no mention of your earlier statement: FDR created the great depression with his incessant meddling, I am assuming you now recognize this is wrong.

indigenous 2014 Mar 8, 1:17am

CDon says

However, seeing as your response made no mention of your earlier statement: FDR created the great depression with his incessant meddling, I am assuming you now recognize this is wrong.

By that I mean the Great Depression would have been over shortly after he took office if he had not kept it going or kept it created.

indigenous 2014 Mar 8, 1:56am

The issue is one of speed.

Can you elaborate please?

Bigsby 2014 Mar 8, 2:07am

CDon says

However, seeing as your response made no mention of your earlier statement: FDR created the great depression with his incessant meddling, I am assuming you now recognize this is wrong.

By that I mean the Great Depression would have been over shortly after he took office if he had not kept it going or kept it created.

Sure sounds the same.

turtledove 2014 Mar 8, 2:41am

turtledove says

The issue is one of speed.

Can you elaborate please?

Sure. Might the duration of the Depression been shorter if not for aspects of the New Deal policies enacted during that period? Could there have been a quicker recovery?

Dan8267 2014 Mar 8, 3:57am

FDR created the great depression with his incessant meddling

The First Great Depression began in 1929. FDR took office on March 4, 1933. He then hopped into his handicapable Delorean, traveled back in time 4 years, and caused the depression.

The Federal Reserve and Wall Street had nothing to do with the First Great Depression. It was all time-traveling presidents' fault, especially Obama. The DoD should have never given Barry his own T.A.R.D.I.S.

indigenous 2014 Mar 8, 4:08am

Dan8267 says

The First Great Depression began in 1929. FDR took office on March 4, 1933. He then hopped into his handicapable Delorean, traveled back in time 4 years, and caused the depression.

No dumb ass, he kept it mucked up for a decade.

Vicente 2014 Mar 8, 4:54am

No dumb ass, he kept it mucked up for a decade.

Because the best thing to do, was clearly to let the system purge itself, and allow Old Man Potter to buy up everything. Riiiight!

54 humanity 2014 Mar 8, 4:57am

CL says

confused man-crush on Vladimir Putin

Yes, they definitely ummm,...like the cut of his jib.

I have theory as to why so many right wingers don't believe that homosexuality is is an innate trait, that is a physical trait. They believe it's a choice.

Think about it...

55 humanity 2014 Mar 8, 4:59am

No dumb ass, he kept it mucked up for a decade

Yes. We all know if someone who understood the folly of Keynesiam theory had taken over, they could have undone the great depression in 2 months,.. tops.

Vicente 2014 Mar 8, 5:01am

Yes, they definitely ummm,...like the cut of his jib.

I'm not getting your drift.

indigenous 2014 Mar 8, 5:17am

Because the best thing to do, was clearly to let the system purge itself, and allow Old Man Potter to buy up everything. Riiiight!

Yes

Yes. We all know if someone who understood the folly of Keynesiam theory had taken over, they could have undone the great depression in 2 months,.. tops.

Yes but I'm sensing you are being facetious.

These 2 mutts manifest advanced Kool Aid poisoning...

Vicente 2014 Mar 8, 5:22am

Yes

When I was a Glibertopian I believed this dogma too.

The ideas is you need frequent "business cycles" where dinosaurs are killed off, and mammals can come to the fore.

However now that I've seen fighting in the trenches, I am no longer willing to play with people's lives like they are toys on a board. How it actually plays out, is that the more Richie Rich you are, the better positioned you are to sweep up the best assets during every downturn. Wealth moves upward with every cycle, and the mammals get squeezed out of every niche. The theory of cleansing our economy with occasional fires burning down the whole forest is complete horseshit and as disproven as Flat Earth.

Who is the biggest cash buyer of homes right now? It's not Joe & Jane Public, who are just barely scraping by, it's big hedge funds. And investors aren't buying them just to flip, a lot of them are rentals. And thus all lower classes shift towards being renters in their increasingly uncertain world.

indigenous 2014 Mar 8, 5:29am

When I was a Glibertopian I believed this dogma too.

Now you are one of sages?

60 humanity 2014 Mar 8, 5:36am

Now you are one of sages?

No he's just exposing your ridiculous dogma for what it is. All you have is totally unbacked assertions and mindless Mises.org sound bites.

The theory of cleansing our economy with occasional fires burning down the whole forest is complete horseshit and as disproven as Flat Earth.

Who is the biggest cash buyer of homes right now? It's not Joe & Jane Public, who are just barely scraping by, it's big hedge funds. And investors aren't buying them just to flip, a lot of them are rentals. And thus all lower classes shift towards being renters in their increasingly uncertain world.

Although I would add that lower classes include the middle class in the expensive coastal city markets.

indigenous 2014 Mar 8, 5:44am

No he's just exposing your ridiculous dogma for what it is

Thanks for the clarification. Although it is anything but esoteric, hard to imagine how you reach that conclusion? I guess the thing that keeps it clandestine is literacy, sign of the times, sigh...

62 humanity 2014 Mar 8, 5:49am

I guess the thing that keeps it clandestine is literacy, sign of the times, sigh...

I guess being smug and lying to yourself is easier than showing everyone why I'm wrong.

No he's just exposing your ridiculous dogma for what it is. All you have is totally unbacked assertions and mindless Mises.org sound bites.

Have you ever in your life put together a compelling argument to back up what your emotions and sub-par IQ lead you to believe is the truth ?

This isn't "clandestine," it's actually quite straight forward.

Vicente says

The theory of cleansing our economy with occasional fires burning down the whole forest is complete horseshit and as disproven as Flat Earth.

Who is the biggest cash buyer of homes right now? It's not Joe & Jane Public, who are just barely scraping by, it's big hedge funds. And investors aren't buying them just to flip, a lot of them are rentals. And thus all lower classes shift towards being renters in their increasingly uncertain world.

indigenous 2014 Mar 8, 6:07am

I guess being smug and lying to yourself is easier than showing everyone why I'm wrong.

You are projecting.

Have you ever in your life put together a compelling argument to back up what your emotions and sub-par IQ lead you to believe is the truth ?

I think so not that you would hear what I say

64 humanity 2014 Mar 8, 6:34am

These 2 mutts manifest advanced Kool Aid poisoning...

I take it from that name I've seen you use other times, that you fancy yourself "well bred."

Interesting.

indigenous 2014 Mar 8, 6:38am

I take it from that name I've seen you use other times, that you fancy yourself "well bred."

No it is a state of mind someone who refuses to look outside the status quo, one who remains sequestered to his stuck view point, that he unwittingly adopted.

Homeboy 2014 Mar 8, 7:03am

Debates about who caused the Great Depression are about as interesting as watching paint dry.

indigenous 2014 Mar 8, 7:05am

Homeboy says

Debates about who caused the Great Depression are about as interesting as watching paint dry.

Yea I hear people say the same about baseball

HydroCabron 2014 Mar 8, 8:13am

The Putin man-crush ain't homo; it's incest.

"Take me, Daddy! You're oh-so firm and authoritarian - hard and unforgiving, just how I like it!"

Modern libertarianism is interesting: I'll give you that.

69 mell 2014 Mar 8, 8:41am

Who is the biggest cash buyer of homes right now? It's not Joe & Jane Public, who are just barely scraping by, it's big hedge funds.

LOL. That's because of the crony capitalist REO-to-rental program. Everything subsidized is always very "popular". Now you are starting to complain about consequences from government programs you so much love. That can only mean that it's time to rediscover your Libertarian roots!

Vicente 2014 Mar 8, 9:33am

mell says

LOL. That's because of the crony capitalist REO-to-rental program.

Richie Rich always has cash to buy assets. Programs are irrelevant.

turtledove 2014 Mar 8, 9:42am

mell says

LOL. That's because of the crony capitalist REO-to-rental program.

Richie Rich always has cash to buy assets. Programs are irrelevant.

Oh, there's always a crony program. How do you think he became "Richie Rich" in the first place?

Vicente 2014 Mar 8, 10:00am

Oh, there's always a crony program. How do you think he became "Richie Rich" in the first place?

They are irrelevant.

Richie Rich subsists on assets, not income.

In any downturn, they hold properties. If the fraction of their wealth in liquid form like stocks etc. goes down they don't care. And they can liquidate some of that along with lesser properties, to grab up distressed discount properties of greater value.

John & Jane Public on the other hand, have very little wealth to run around chasing these opportunities. Even if they do, when their jobs are endangered, they don't spend because they are worried about making payments next year. So they hoard what very little cash they might have.

Thus on every cycle, irrespective of government programs, the wealthy get wealthier and the rest slide down a little.

It is a FANTASY that oh yeah, if only there weren't government intervention I could have picked up the assets of JP Morgan for pennies.

tatupu70 2014 Mar 8, 10:02am

Oh, there's always a crony program. How do you think he became "Richie Rich" in the first place?

I thought it was all his smarts, hard work, and sacrifice. You mean to tell me the Rich didn't work harder than everyone else??

turtledove 2014 Mar 8, 10:16am

tatupu70 says

turtledove says

Oh, there's always a crony program. How do you think he became "Richie Rich" in the first place?

I thought it was all his smarts, hard work, and sacrifice. You mean to tell me the Rich didn't work harder than everyone else??

Well, you show me where I ever said that the crony rich achieve their wealth through "smarts, hard work, and sacrifice," (or anything even resembling that) and I will be more than happy to answer your question.

turtledove 2014 Mar 8, 10:18am

They are irrelevant.

Richie Rich subsists on assets, not income.

In any downturn, they hold properties. If the fraction of their wealth in liquid form like stocks etc. goes down they don't care. And they can liquidate some of that along with lesser properties, to grab up distressed discount properties of greater value.

John & Jane Public on the other hand, have very little wealth to run around chasing these opportunities. Even if they do, when their jobs are endangered, they don't spend because they are worried about making payments next year. So they hoard what very little cash they might have.

Thus on every cycle, irrespective of government programs, the wealthy get wealthier and the rest slide down a little.

It is a FANTASY that oh yeah, if only there weren't government intervention I could have picked up the assets of JP Morgan for pennies.

And from the beginning of time, crony Richie Rich attained his assets at the pleasure of his King.

indigenous 2014 Mar 8, 10:57am

tatupu70 says

I thought it was all his smarts, hard work, and sacrifice. You mean to tell me the Rich didn't work harder than everyone else??

They do, anyone who has been in business realizes this. Which was unique to the US at one time.

Of course the cronys are a different story but that is not the free market.

This is something that the lefties do not understand they are 2 different things.

This is where Jojo or AF would rather just complain because it is easier to just complain.

turtledove 2014 Mar 8, 11:21am

tatupu70 says

I thought it was all his smarts, hard work, and sacrifice. You mean to tell me the Rich didn't work harder than everyone else??

They do, anyone who has been in business realizes this. Which was unique to the US at one time.

Of course the cronys are a different story but that is not the free market.

This is something that the lefties do not understand they are 2 different things.

This is where Jojo or AF would rather just complain because it is easier to just complain.

The generalizations are pretty silly.

indigenous 2014 Mar 8, 11:27am

The generalizations are pretty silly.

How so?

turtledove 2014 Mar 8, 11:41am

turtledove says

The generalizations are pretty silly.

How so?

I didn't mean you. I meant those who were talking in terms of "all rich people do this" and "all rich people are like that." It's just so ridiculous. They refuse to distinguish between cronies and people who work hard and earn well.

When "Richie Rich" first came up in this thread, to me was a crony, based on the fact that it was coined in response to a statement about crony capitalists. But as the thread wore on, it became a generalization about any person who has money.

It's just silly that people are so determined to categorize everyone. Not all that different than the post that suggested that I'm a Fox News disciple because I said I don't like Obama. How ridiculous and completely inaccurate. But there's a group here that isn't happy until they've put every single person into a nice neat category.

indigenous 2014 Mar 8, 11:51am

It's just silly that people are so determined to categorize everyone.

Agreed, one of the more common ilogics is the conflating of distinctly different concepts.

81 thomaswong.1986 2014 Mar 8, 11:57am