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Easier to go to a safe place at the orangedouchebag's rallys and blame the beaners.
Real Americans Rushing Away From Construction Jobs. Too Lazy.
What a load of bullshit. The construction industry goes through the same boom and bust cycle time after time. The industry crashes and people bail out. Then when the upturn happens there is a shortage of people. That's what the article says.
The exact same thing happens in the oil patch and other cyclical fields.
These Liberals are first class retards. There's no White guys doing construction because most can't afford to raise a family from "The Back" of the truck.
And they aren't driving the truck to the jobsite managing their own jobs. Liberals have placed enough regulations on everything so that the only people who can afford the cost of the business are the Oligarchs who have the monopoly contracts in your town. You ride in the back of his trucks in his fleet.
Less you've got $10 grand for the EPA license, and $20 Grand to get bonded, and a city councilman on the take for all new bids.
It's all part of what is sexy when a guy like Trump says Make America again.
It's a dog whistle for us, we know damned well what Trump is talking about.
It's all part of what is sexy when a guy like Trump says Make America again.
Does this have anything to do with Trump using undocumented polish workers for construction ?
how does one get undocumented Polish workers? Did they come over the Candaian Polish border or the Mexican Polish border?
Why in the hell isn't your President doing his job, there shouldn't be undoccumented workers.
This brings us right back to Trump.
Your blaming Trump for drinking the tainted water Obama served everyone.
That's what's great about Trump he doesn't complain. He takes what is given to him and tries to make it work. And he's done a hell of a job, he's just as tired as we are of being taken for a ride by the Liberals.
Real Americans Rushing Away From Construction Jobs. Too Lazy.
What a load of bullshit. The construction industry goes through the same boom and bust cycle time after time. The industry crashes and people bail out. Then when the upturn happens there is a shortage of people. That's what the article says.
The exact same thing happens in the oil patch and other cyclical fields.
We have been in a housing recovery for quite some time now. You would think the industry would get their act together, and start training new recruits. We need more housing.
We have been in a housing recovery for quite some time now. You would think the industry would get their act together, and start training new recruits. We need more housing.
Exactly. If you need people, train them.
Or pay more, they will come. But apparently this industry would rather keep profits from record house prices and pay at latinos rate.
This is exactly the problem with this country.
Real Americans Rushing Away From Construction Jobs. Too Lazy.
Yet somehow some people expect Americans to take back-breaking farm jobs for less than $60k/yr. Go figure.
Construction is a cake walk compare to picking strawberries.
We have been in a housing recovery for quite some time now. You would think the industry would get their act together, and start training new recruits
What century are you living in? The apprentice system in general has been dead for many decades. There are some state sponsored programs, but nothing like the union programs of the early to late 20th century. Even at that it takes several years to get people up to speed and people only start to go into these jobs once hiring picks back up. This is a perfectly normal cycle.
Or pay more, they will come. But apparently this industry would rather keep profits from record house prices and pay at latinos rate.
I completely agree with the idea that immigrants are lowering the wages for construction jobs by increasing the supply at lower wages. What I find funny about Trump supporters is that out of one side of their mouths, they say "These latinos are hard working fuckers who will do all of the hard jobs for less money than real Americans." Out of the other side of their mouths, they are saying "These immigrants are rapists and murderers with no skills (perhaps there are a few good ones."
What a load of bullshit. The construction industry goes through the same boom and bust cycle time after time. The industry crashes and people bail out. Then when the upturn happens there is a shortage of people. That's what the article says.
To a degree - but as someone who is in the field (me), I can tell you it's flat hard to get people who are worth a plugged nickel. Oh there are people who want to work ... if the hours are 9 - 5 and no weekends, no overtime. There are people who want to work but don't know how to tie steel, or what a 8 penny nail is. There are people who want to work, IF they can take every 2 minutes off (on the clock) to mess with their cell phone for 15 minutes. There are people who want to work, but not if it's hot or rainy, or cold or too early.
The hours can be (and usually are) long and early. The weather is whatever the weather is. A person who really wants to learn and earn can walk in with no skills or experience start out at about $10 an hour and start learning. Depending on what 'clicks' with him (does he find banging nails more satisfying than running plumbing, does he like electrical work or does bending and welding steel work for him) he can enter into an apprenticeship program and be earning better than $15 an hour in less than a year. By the time he finishes his apprentice program (1 to 3 years) he walks out making $22 (carpenter) to $40+ an hour (welder) depending on how good he is and where he lives. But WAY too many young people are too mild for the work, it's too hard, the hours are too long, and I have to mess with my phone every 2 minutes.
What century are you living in? The apprentice system in general has been dead for many decades. There are some state sponsored programs, but nothing like the union programs of the early to late 20th century. Even at that it takes several years to get people up to speed and people only start to go into these jobs once hiring picks back up
And which area of the country do you live in? And what line of construction work do you do? News flash, the apprenticeship programs still exist all you got to do is a little bit of research and/or talk to an employer (a plumbing company, a HVAC company, any electrical shop, home builders) they are all looking for trained, skilled people and they know they will get it from someone with a journeyman's license gotten with training and experience through an apprenticeship program. Even down south (here in Texas) we're not fond of unions but we support apprenticeship programs. It's a win for the worker and for the business.
We have been in a housing recovery for quite some time now. You would think the industry would get their act together, and start training new recruits
What century are you living in? The apprentice system in general has been dead for many decades. There are some state sponsored programs, but nothing like the union programs of the early to late 20th century.
Then how the hell do new recruits get trained? They aren't born with the knowledge. They still have to be trained.
you are starting to talk like Dan.
he can enter into an apprenticeship program and be earning better than $15 an hour in less than a year. By the time he finishes his apprentice program (1 to 3 years)
Great, that's exactly what I said. Thanks for repeating it. It's a normal cycle. People bail out when the industry crashes, when hiring picks up strongly again then new people start getting into the industry. After a few years the number of trained people starts to catch up. Exactly what is happening now no matter what the stupid OP says.
News flash, the apprenticeship programs still exist all you got to do is a little bit of research
Even down south (here in Texas) we're not fond of unions but we support apprenticeship programs.
What are you calling apprentice programs? I'm talking about the traditional walk in off the street and start working union and employer programs. I don't consider 2-3 years of paying for vocation programs while building up skills to be an apprentice program no matter what you call it.
Oh gee union membership went from 35% of workers to less than 10% of workers in the last 50 years. I wonder if the number of apprenticeships went down? You think? So in Texas where less than 5% of construction labor is union you must have a huge apprenticeship program.
Vocational education is where most of the construction people are coming from that I know of. So as someone in the industry what percentage are coming out of paid vocational education and what percentage from traditional union type walk in apprentice programs? Guesstimates don't count.
There is no shortage of American willing to do construction jobs (or drive trucks). There might be a shortage of Americans willing to work these jobs for illegal alien wages though.
I completely agree with the idea that immigrants are lowering the wages for construction jobs by increasing the supply at lower wages. What I find funny about Trump supporters is that out of one side of their mouths, they say "These latinos are hard working fuckers who will do all of the hard jobs for less money than real Americans." Out of the other side of their mouths, they are saying "These immigrants are rapists and murderers with no skills (perhaps there are a few good ones."
You are absolutely right.
What I personally find repulsive is the higher middle class people sweating good conscience for being accepting of illegal immigrants, while blaming poor Americans for not being able to compete with semi starving immigrants willing to do any job at any rate (too lazy) - even as the hiring corporations take the undue profits in-between.
The main economic problem we have is low wage growth, compensated by debt (gov debt mostly). So we have at the same time:
- debts going through the roof
- idle Americans on transfer of payments instead of productive activities
- huge number of illegal immigrants
- stagnant wages and low inflation
- vast printing of money inflating asset prices
- massive and increasing inequalities
Why can't we see that these problems would exactly solve each others if we simply enforced immigration laws?
The rent seekers supporting Clinton like this system.
...And of course any criticism of that system is immediately mapped to a moral failing (i.e. racism).
There is no shortage of American willing to do construction jobs (or drive trucks). There might be a shortage of Americans willing to work these jobs for illegal alien wages though.
Then the problem is capitalism, not immigration, legal or not. Your real complaint is that under capitalism workers are not paid according to what they produce but rather according to their bargaining power, and immigration, whether legal or not, diminishes that bargaining power.
The solution is to determine income not by bargaining power, but by productivity. Such a system, however implemented, would remove control over the distribution of resources from private owners and therefore, by definition, not be capitalism. All of our economic problems originate from letting greedy parasites control who gets paid what based on what little they can get away with paying the productive members of society while producing nothing themselves.
DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says
SLAVERY IS CONSTITUTIONAL!
Despite being a joke, this statement is actually true. The 13th Amendment states
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
You might notice that big red part. Yeah, slavery is a crime against humanity, but there's an "except" to its ban.
The fact is that there are more slaves in America today than there were during the Civil War. Every person on a chain gang and every person making license plates is a slave, by definition. We still have slavery in everything except name in this country. It's shameful.
Then the problem is capitalism, not immigration, legal or not. Your real complaint is that under capitalism workers are not paid according to what they produce but rather according to their bargaining power, and immigration, whether legal or not, diminishes that bargaining power.
Illegal immigration undermining wages is not a problem with capitalism, it's a problem of law enforcement.
Oh gee union membership went from 35% of workers to less than 10% of workers in the last 50 years. I wonder if the number of apprenticeships went down? You think? So in Texas where less than 5% of construction labor is union you must have a huge apprenticeship program.
Vocational education is where most of the construction people are coming from that I know of. So as someone in the industry what percentage are coming out of paid vocational education and what percentage from traditional union type walk in apprentice programs? Guesstimates don't count.
You don't need a union to have an apprenticeship program. There are many, many apprenticeship programs being run through/in cooperation with community colleges. If you go to work for a plumbing company they will tell you about the program (at the community college), they will explain that as you pass those classes that along with your experience your pay will increase. In many cases they will even offer paying for the courses (only if you pass). I've seen people come in from community colleges and get hired. I've seen alot of people go to work, then while working attend classes at night to complete the apprenticeship program. I'm only aware of a few people who attended a 'pay-for-training' program and then came out and got hired. But that is only my experience of over 20 years in construction and watching and hiring hundreds of people.
Real Americans Rushing Away From Construction Jobs. Too Lazy.
What a load of bullshit. The construction industry goes through the same boom and bust cycle time after time. The industry crashes and people bail out. Then when the upturn happens there is a shortage of people. That's what the article says.
The exact same thing happens in the oil patch and other cyclical fields.
So what? So what if these are cyclical jobs? The ramp up in demand is two years old so what are REAL AMERICANS waiting for? Wingnuts are always bitching about "others" who complain about low wages. They say if you don't like your wage quit, make yourself more valuable and "go get" a better paying job. Here they are bitching about immigrants instead of doing what they say others should do. Americans say they want....deserve....skilled jobs that pay high wages and require skills but then refuse to make the sacrifices intrinsic to those jobs....and that isn't laziness? What is it then? Entitlement? Victimhood? The reason why immigrants, mostly Mexican, are ALREADY ON THESE JOBSITES is because they are willing to either move their families or migrate to the work site. If REAL Americans aren't willing then you can call it whatever you prefer but I call it laziness.
"We've so demonized working with your hands in this country," he said. "We've got a booming economy, and we can't keep up with the pace of growth."
The oil patch and it's high paying cyclical jobs has gone bust, but next door in Dallas "contractors are fighting over the limited supply of [REAL AMERICAN] workers as three major mixed-use projects are going up right next to each other on the so-called "$5 billion mile" in Frisco, a northern suburb.
Immigrants make do. They leave their families or move their families and do what's best to make it work. If REAL AMERICANS wanted these jobs they'd have filled them by now.
I call bullshit on your bullshit.
There's no White guys doing construction because most can't afford to raise a family from "The Back" of the truck.
Or a trailer park not in their home town. They should just sit there and bitch until the #orangedouchebag makes the factories come back. Meanwhile they'll vote for right-to-work Republicans. Yup, they "deserve" better than to "go out" and find a better paying job. It's their cultural right, and it's their cultural right to blame the immigrant for being willing to take that job.
I'm sorry you trying to say something I can't make out what you are saying with Obama's hope in your mouth.
Illegal immigration undermining wages is not a problem with capitalism, it's a problem of law enforcement.
Incorrect. Let's say there is a magic button that immediate deports all illegal immigrants. You can press it as many times you like each day. You can even have a monkey press it every minute for you.
Legal, non-citizen workers would still undermine wages because capitalists will bribe politicians to make laws that let them import workers from Mexico, keep those workers as non-citizens, and then send them back to Mexico to be replaced with other workers before they get any bargaining power.
Remember, the people using Mexican slave labor are the exact same people who used black slave labor, and when that was outlawed used child slave labor, and when that was outlawed domestically used child sweat shops in third world nations, and when that was outlawed went to non-citizen immigrant workers. They always use whatever people have the least power to demand living wages. There's a pattern here and it's caused by capitalism, plain and simple.
Eliminate the mechanism of letting owners decide how much workers are paid and instead pay each worker exactly 80% of his wealth production and you'll see high wages. Of course, such a system is, by definition, not capitalism. It is, however, a much better system that promotes productivity and growth.
capitalists will bribe politicians to make laws that let them import workers from Mexico
Assuming it happens, this is not capitalism. This is corruption. You can't blame every crime on capitalism.
Further there are laws that clearly require either specific conditions to hire foreign workers. It's not that easy.
H1-Bs may lower a bit wages for engineers but this is in no way a problem as radical as illegals are to other professions.
I'm sorry you trying to say something I can't make out what you are saying with Obama's hope in your mouth.
I'm saying if you can't deal with the market place you voted for go get on welfare, but be sure to blame the immigrant who can deal because he's making you look like bitch.
Eliminate the mechanism of letting owners decide how much workers are paid and instead pay each worker exactly 80% of his wealth production and you'll see high wages.
Nonsense.
- there is no measure of wealth production in an environment where many people work together.
- How do you quantify the cost of everything else?
- who decides?
- if your starting point is that greedy people will corrupt deciders, then how do you know greedy people won't corrupt whoever decides "wealth production" in order to pull the cover to their side?
You don't, therefore you didn't solve any problem.
- there is no measure of wealth production in an environment where many people work together.
Sure there is. It's called the dollar. Anyone who cannot measure the productivity of workers, should not be deciding who should be hired and fired and how much they should be paid. There are plenty of people who can and do measure worker productivity in units of U.S. dollars. How do you think all those graphs on worker productivity and GDP are created?
How do you quantify the cost of everything else?
The same way it's done now. That's an accounting problem and does not address the issue of who should decide how to split the wealth created and by what criteria.
In fact all such complaints you have about technical difficulties exist in the status quo and do not prevent capitalists from basing their decision on how to distribute the wealth created based on bargaining power. As such, these complaints also have nothing to do with changing the criteria from "bargaining power" to "actual productivity".
Nor have you made any justifications why basing pay on actual productivity would be a bad thing or why basing pay on bargaining power that has little to nothing to do with actual productivity is a good thing.
if your starting point is that greedy people will corrupt deciders, then how do you know greedy people won't corrupt whoever decides "wealth production" in order to pull the cover to their side
Computers don't have greed.
This entire problem has already been solved by slime mold. Literally.
www.youtube.com/embed/Nx3Uu1hfl6Q
Slime mold has solved the problem you think is unsolvable. If slime mold can solve this problem without even a brain, why do you think it's impossible for humans with all their geniuses and technology cannot? Hell, we could just copy-n-paste the slime mold solution.
Slime mold typically travel as pulsating goo, but when life conditions are not right, they can form a slug that moves into a different area. If the slug cannot find good conditions (food, water, temperature, acidity, etc.) then the cells in the slug change into a new form, a stalk and a spore. The cells in the stalk simply die and sacrifice themselves so that the spore can travel to a better location, survive, and reproduce.
The problem the slime mold has to solve is which cells, and thus which genes, get to go in the spore. All cells want to go into the spore because they gain nothing being in the stalk, but that creates a problem because there are multiple sets of clones in the slime mold with different genes. How does the slime mold system decide how much to pay each clone set, i.e. how many of each clone set to put in the spore as oppose to the stalk? The answer is called The Law of Equalization of Net Incomes. Basically each clone set benefits proportionally to its contribution to the entire system.
See http://bioweb.uwlax.edu/bio203/2010/renner_brad/reproduction.htm for more details of this process.
So I ask you again, are human beings at least as capable as slime mold? I don't think this is such an unrealistic standard.
If you don't think my solution could work, that's because you don't understand it. My solution has worked in nature. Now maybe slime mold deserves the credit instead of me, but who cares about credit. The idea is what is important.
And if you are interested in the scientific paper, it's here.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2292884
Why blame the immigrants that would be silly no one voted for Immigrants?
Why blame the immigrants that would be silly no one voted for Immigrants?
Ahahahaha Hillary was friends with Robert Byrd hahahahaha!
What I personally find repulsive is the higher middle class people sweating good conscience for being accepting of illegal immigrants, while blaming poor Americans for not being able to compete with semi starving immigrants willing to do any job at any rate (too lazy) - even as the hiring corporations take the undue profits in-between.
---------------
I've got mine, fuck you!
Why blame the immigrants that would be silly no one voted for Immigrants?
You voted right-to-work for nothing legislation. That's the market you now resent. At least it's "for-nothing" in your mind. You're angry because someone doesn't think it's "for-nothing" and they manage to raise families of 5 or 6 kids on it. You can't compete. The "wall" is your bailout.
semi starving immigrants willing to do any job at any rate
That's the meme, but it's not true: nobody works and semi-starves like The Grapes of Wrath. Everywhere I look I see Mexican immigrants making do just fine, not starving, raising large families, thriving, if you want to call it that. Thriving on what most REAL AMERICANS find beneath them. Reminds me of a guy I used to work with: dumped his girlfriend because she wasn't good enough for him anymore, but she was still "his girl" in his mind so everyone else was supposed to stay off her. His version of building a wall.
There are plenty of people who can and do measure worker productivity in units of U.S. dollars
No there aren't. Productivity is back calculated from GDP. And since you propose to fix salaries, there is absolutely no reference as to what value work has.
Suppose I have an assembly line with 10 workers and 1 operation requires a worker with more experience and more skills. The product also requires an engineering team to design it, a QA team, a marketing team to sell it. How do you value the role of each person? It's just purely arbitrary. (Unless there is a labor market that tells you that. )
Explain how your slime model applies here.
These Liberals are first class retards. There's no White guys doing construction because most can't afford to raise a family from "The Back" of the truck.
Hahaha!
Tell that to all the Latinos raising families and buying houses while doing that kind of work.
That's the meme, but it's not true: nobody works and semi-starves like The Grapes of Wrath. Everywhere I look I see Mexican immigrants making do just fine, not starving, raising large families, thriving, if you want to call it that.
Yeah they're thriving with their families living in a garage, working 2 jobs and eating MacDonald. With no healthcare or retirement. But poor Americans are "too lazy" to do the same.
And yeah these Americans are racists if they don't like it.
You're an arrogant jerk.
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The brown horde is taking all your jobs and robbing you of your cultural superiority. Taco trucks on every corner.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/construction-worker-shortage-weighs-on-hot-us-housing-market/ar-AAixWgL?li=BBnbfcN
"GUARANTEED WORK, FEW TAKERS
Colorado alone will need 30,000 more workers in the construction field in the next six years, a number that does not account for those who will retire, according to a study by the Association of General Contractors.
The association estimates that there are approximately 200,000 unfilled construction jobs in the U.S. - a jump of 81 percent in the last two years. Private companies say that they are having a hard time attracting workers, and they are often forced to give employees on-the-spot raises to prevent them from going to competitors. Carpenters and electricians are often listed as the most in-demand specialties.
"The labor shortage is getting worse as demand is getting stronger," said John Courson, chief executive of the Home Builders Institute, a national nonprofit that trains workers in the construction field.
Small, the Denver builder, estimates that he could construct at least 10 percent more homes this year if he had enough workers. But he remains short-staffed, despite raising pay to levels above what he paid during the housing bubble a decade ago."
#abolishthe13thamendment