patrick.net

turtledove is deplorable says

But the fact that it's coming from a respected entity that tends to lean left should cause you to pause in your absurd assertions that Hillary represents all the college educated voters.

Are you serious ?

turtledove is deplorable says

YesYNot says

Do you Hillary=evil guys ever try to figure out why the vast majority of educated people prefer Hillary to Trump?

Would your statement pass the 30-person Millennial team of CNN fact checkers? Remember, you all are demanding absolute precision of every syllable (only when it's coming out of the mouth of a Republican, of course)... But you should at least try to set a good example.

"Blue-collar voters certainly make up the bulk of Trump’s large coalition, but he is also doing very well among Republicans with college degrees. In six of the statewide GOP exit polls so far, Trump was the most popular candidate among college-educated voters.

Does TD really think that Trump being the most popular candidate among college educated republicans, contradicts YesYNot's stateent that the vast majority of college educated voters prefer Clinton ?

Apparently yes ?

rando says

YesYNot says

I also think this line of argument reinforces an elitist condescension theme as a reaction.

Definitely!

LOL as if the #Douchebag isn't the most elitist of the elites and doesn't have the most appalling condescension of any candidate: "No one but me, in the history of the universe, believe me, folks". Naw, #Deplorables are just #TriggeredArsonists. They may rail against corrupt elitist corporatists, so when their corrupt elitist corporatist candidate tells them he has a bomb to throw in the right direction, they obediently refuse to track his myriad positions that prove his only effort will be in favor of corrupt elitist corporatists like himself.

It is an act of the utmost desperation to vote for a profoundly ignorant and ripened Oligarch just because you think he might destroy enough things to accidentally do something good. Why not nominate the plague? It was successful! Brilliant!! It lead the world!! It got shit done!!

YesYNot says

hey have been taught how to read and think critically

Sometimes this is true. But it's less and less true as the years go by and they're encouraged to retreat to their safe spaces where critical thinking has been abolished in favor of mindless dogma. The sad thing is, our higher education system is going the way of the madrassa, teaching nothing but theology, which usually doesn't make much sense, isn't coherent at all, and is contradictory, but still it's mandatory to believe it.

marcus says

Does TD really think that Trump being the most popular candidate among college educated republicans, contradicts YesYNot's stateent that the vast majority of college educated voters prefer Clinton ?

Apparently yes ?

Republicans still cannot grasp that they are a subset of American voters, and thus, when you speak of larger sets they short circuit until you explain it to them several times. It's a condition evident in other examples of their outlook, championed by their standard bearers:

marcus says

Does TD really think that Trump being the most popular candidate among college educated republicans, contradicts YesYNot's stateent that the vast majority of college educated voters prefer Clinton ?

I immediately explained that it didn't contradict my statement. But this is an issue where critical thinking or lack there of comes in to play.

Quigley is deplorable says

The sad thing is, our higher education system is going the way of the madrassa, teaching

There may be some truth to this hyperbolic Trumpian statement. Time will tell. In the mean time, The statistics are not limited to recent graduates, but are based on educated people of all ages. So you have to consider education as it was when each person went to school (over the last 60 years).

Mike Pence clearly was trying to win by being calm and likable, which is a win for Trump, but more so a win for Pence.
Kaine was clearly trying to play the attack dog going after Trump. Because Pence would not try to defend Trump, anyone who focused on the words could see that Kaine made much better points. Those who focused on who looked more like the Joker, who tried too hard, or prepared too much, or came off like the eager beaver in school thought Pence was better.

Heraclitusstudent says

I think it's clear.

If the biggest problem with him were paying as little tax as he can and being an ass, then ask yourself: how do these flaws compare to supporting a system that's pushing 50% of Americans into poverty?

The hell with diplomatic speech. This part absolutely has to be ignored.

If only it was his taxes and being an ass alone. His real problems are he will be completely ineffective in diplomacy, a national embarrassment greater than Bush, and if his is able to implement protectionism, his tax plan, and defense/wall spending he would bankrupt the nation in short order. In actuality, I think he will be completely inept and absent. Pence would find the VP seat very lonely, powerful, and uncomfortable trying to clean up after Trump dumps.

I see the Trump appeal in this ...

Problem: The house's roof is leaking.
Solution: Burn it down.

... but people are greatly underestimating just how bad of a solution that is. Bernie was an appeal to reform. Trump is an appeal to fire.

YesYNot says

Mike Pence clearly was trying to win by being calm and likable, which is a win for Trump, but more so a win for Pence.

Kaine was clearly trying to play the attack dog going after Trump. Because Pence would not try to defend Trump, anyone who focused on the words could see that Kaine made much better points. Those who focused on who looked more like the Joker, who tried too hard, or prepared too much, or came off like the eager beaver in school thought Pence was better.

Totally agree. Yes, style can win over substance. A debate coach would be super pissed with Kaine. ;)

jazz music says

Look, Kaine was rude, Clinton was stoic. Trump was rude, Pence was stoic.

Yeah, I noticed this too. It was surely by design. All indications are that Kaine is usually pretty mellow, but was playing a part.Rew says

Bernie was an appeal to reform. Trump is an appeal to fire.

This rings pretty accurate to me. I prefer HRC to Bernie, but would be fine with Bernie. Not so much with Trump.

Rew says

A debate coach would be super pissed with Kaine. ;)

Probably true, unless Kaine achieved his goal of keeping the focus on Trump's bad lines and defending Clinton while coming off as a bit of an ass.

turtledove is deplorable says

YesYNot says

Do you Hillary=evil guys ever try to figure out why the vast majority of educated people prefer Hillary to Trump?

This is exactly what you said. Now you want to pretend it's something else. Roughly half the country supports Trump... and you want to believe that all the college educated people are on your side. Believe that if it makes you feel better. That doesn't make it so. Polls have been done on a very similar subject. The last one I read said it was about a 48% (Democrat) vs 42% (Republican) have college degrees. This is hardly the "vast majority" when comparing party affiliations... How did Politico even poll college educated Trump supporters if they are as scarce as you want to believe? But by all means, continue to be smug that you all are the smartest guys in the room... That's actually working against your side and you don't seem to even realize it.

YesYNot says

anyone who focused on the words could see that Kaine made much better points.

In other words, thinkers.

jazz music says

Trumps own fucking lawyers are suing him for not paying them and they were hired to protect him from the lawsuits of the other people who are suing him for not getting paid by him.

It is amazing until you think on it: Trump would rather pay lawyers than pay his bills; eventually he'll stiff his lawyers just on principle.

jazz music says

Trump wants to win for winning sake: that means he wants to make people that aren't like him all losers. That is us. I mean ALL of us.

Yup. I saw an interview with one of his many victims. The victim du jour was just a Joe, a nobody, who said: "To Trump it was sport but to me it was survival, and I lost everything." Trump welshes when he needn't; he lies when there's no value in it; he attacks small commoners for fabricated slights. He does things for no reason. Where I come from we called someone like him a punk.

jazz music says

Why do people just refuse to see the obvious???

The roof has a leak. Maybe their wife dissed them. they're looking for a dog to kick.

jazz music says

I read the state level is getting bought out by big Koch and other corporate money especially the supreme courts, that's where it all begins to fall apart, when the supreme courts turn their backs on the people and start coddling the big money bags.

This is the true danger posed by the#OrangeDouchebag: the courts. But nobody cares in Trumpland. If you can burn down the house who cares about all the rights that commoners would have to surrender? The Oligarchs have what they want! Fuck the people!

Crooked Hillary will always Favor Wall Street, as she always has.

She will always do Saudi Arabia's bidding in the Middle East. She'll moan that a city being liberated from Al Qaeda and ISIS incurs civilian casualties, as if it's ever possible to liberate a city and the surrounding area without it. Saudi as HR head is laughable as they dump bombs right onto hospitals, schools, and residential areas in Yemen and have the country under total blockade, medicine is almost totally gone. They don't allow reporters or NGOs in the country as the only way in or out in Riyadh and the Saudis don't let them go to Yemen.

"TARP was paid back" - yep, by eliminating free checking and approval to charge new massive bank fees, which are around half of bank revenue. Most of that was assessed on small accounts of individuals and small business. So the taxpayer paid for the bailout, without preventing future moral hazard.

YesYNot says

rando says

Maybe I shouldn't allow that.

While I think my use was fairly innocuous, there may be some security issues. Some people make perfectly good use of links, though. @curious2 would have to change his posting habits if you disallowed links with alternative text in posts.

Thanks, and this illustrates yet again the profound importance of who your neighbors are. If you bring in Nazis or jihadis, you risk malicious code getting hidden all over the place. If someone can hack into Patrick's account, then every link could redirect to stormfront or malware.

The same applies IRL. I tracked down the source of an Oktoberfest article posted in another thread. The article comes from RT, which goes on to note:

"Oktoberfest is no stranger to terrorism. One of the worst terrorist attacks in post-war history occurred at the festival in 1980, when a right-wing extremist set off a bomb that killed him and 11 others at the main entrance to the event."

I react to Nazis and Muslims the same way and for the same reason: both celebrate a hateful and horrible doctrine that tells them to kill me, and that has caused believers to murder millions of people.

Donald Trump started to do much better among educated voters when he started to speak candidly about Islam, because educated voters are more likely to read what Islam says. Alas, partisans who value being "a team player" more highly than adherence to evidence-based decisionmaking have tended to refuse to read what Islam says, and to refuse to read what is actually happening in the world, preferring instead the "team player" narrative. Whatever. After the VP debate, between the two major parties, the Democrats seem to be the less bad team compared to the other major party. I still like Gary Johnson and Bill Weld though, even though one doesn't know what "a leppo" is and the other seems too distracted by the Republican nominee.

BTW, one reason educated people live longer than uneducated people starts in early childhood, even before the education. Experiments with small children and treats have shown that those who can delay gratification in exchange for a greater reward are more likely to do better in school, go further in school, and live longer. The ability to say no to a box of donuts or a cigarette in exchange for better health and a longer life pays off over time, regardless of whether you stay in school or not.

Quigley is deplorable says

Sometimes this is true. But it's less and less true as the years go by and they're encouraged to retreat to their safe spaces where critical thinking has been abolished in favor of mindless dogma. The sad thing is, our higher education system is going the way of the madrassa, teaching nothing but theology, which usually doesn't make much sense, isn't coherent at all, and is contradictory, but still it's mandatory to believe it.

We have college graduates who have never read a word of Aristotle, Voltaire, Hobbes, or anything foundational to Western Civ. Only Maya Angelou.

Universities are now openly discriminating, and by creating "Blank only" Residence Halls and Safe Spaces, are destroying the entire point of a University. "Hey, we're so diverse we isolate identity groups outside of classes! Celebrate diversity!

Rew says

His real problems are he will be completely ineffective in diplomacy, a national embarrassment greater than Bush, and if his is able to implement protectionism, his tax plan, and defense/wall spending he would bankrupt the nation in short order.

Embarrassment... depends who you speak to.
Bankrupt the nation... no because this doesn't depend just on taxes. There are just too many variables. And anyway we really don't what he wants/ can do.
The biggest flaw of Trump is that he is a sleazy salesman: he brasses a lot of air, but he really has no idea what he is getting into. He has never held any elected office. He doesn't know what the underlying forces are.
But democrats continue to chide him for his taxes and being rude.

Funny, I was reading this thread enjoying the sunset with the dog. He hobbled around the side of the house and started barking. Odd

So i go up to the driveway, and see a whole bunch of state police. Yikes. What are they doing here? Then i saw the MAGA cavalcade lol. Must have been Pence coming to Lancaster. WHere Trump was just here on Saturday. They love their Amish Lancastrians! Lol

thunderlips11 is deplorable says

She will always do Saudi Arabia's bidding in the Middle East. She'll moan that a city being liberated from Al Qaeda and ISIS incurs civilian casualties

The US always talk like the 'rebels' in Syria are not ISIS and Al nusra. My guess is very little of the Syrian opposition is not made of Sunni jihadists of one sort or an other.
For example the Free Syrian Army got a lot of training/equipment provided by the US and Saudis and they later directly joined ISIS.

This means the #1 goal of the US under Obama remains to remove Assad - rather than dealing with ISIS. This makes the US and ISIS allies at least implicitly. The only goal of fighting them in Iraq is to block them and push them to Syria.

Unlikely to change under Hillary.

turtledove is deplorable says

This is exactly what you said. Now you want to pretend it's something else. Roughly half the country supports Trump... and you want to believe that all the college educated people are on your side.

I've already admitted that vast majority was overstating the case. Here you are again equating vast majority with all. I don't really get what you're point is.

It was Pence. He was scheduled for Grantville at 7pm. Thats Penn National Horse Track. Hope they don't mind him showing up an hour late. Thats after Trump was 90 minutes late on Saturday night here. He looked like he needed some sleep...he was imitating Hilldog collapsing from pneumonia .

Heraclitusstudent says

And anyway we really don't what he wants/ can do......he is a sleazy salesman......he really has no idea what he is getting into.

Well why didn't ya say so, with credentials like that it would be deplorable not to vote for the guy!

YesYNot says

I've already admitted that vast majority was overstating the case.

Didn't see that. My response was really to all the people who claimed that you didn't say (mean) what you said. That said, this is exactly my point. I know what you meant. But it's kind of annoying when I go on and on about your exact words. There's been a lot of that this election cycle.

turtledove is deplorable says

But it's kind of annoying when I go on and on about your exact words.

Fair enough. I think that Trump is unique among Republicans though in losing big to educated voters, particular women. Romney did much better in that demographic. Trump OTOH is doing much better than Romney among uneducated people.
I cited actual poll numbers in one post to quantify things instead of using vague terms.

This gives an idea what Kaine was up to.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-debate-prep-is-focused-on-what-happens-once-the-debate-is-done/2016/10/05/26914f92-8b16-11e6-b24f-a7f89eb68887_story.html

turtledove is deplorable says

and you want to believe that all the college educated people are on your side

Is this the third or fourth time ? I lost count. She thinks "the vast majority of educated folks," is the same as "all educated folks."

I would never say all educated folks or anything close to it are for CLinton. We all know that there are plenty of educated folks that are so married to the red team, and who have been programmed for decades by the spewing ignorance, hate and Koch brothers talking points from the likes of Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and talk radio that they haven't been able to think straight for years. A very small percentage of people in science, computer science, Mathematics, Logic, or philosophy would be tolerant of Trump. Although I'm sure there are some MDs, the kind that were always in it for the money, that can never see beyond the tax consequences of their vote, that would be for Trump.

Do you people have no fucking shame ?

Do you teachers have no fucking grammar?
Or did TD just trigger you?
LOLOL FIFY

Time for your lesson, teach.
Pronouns are commonly used to refer familiarly to people present; however, it can be a sign of animosity to refer to someone you know well by a pronoun rather than their name; in the so-called 'Squidgy' tape from late December 1989 Princess Diana consistently refers to Prince Charles as he. This is comparable to the (mock?) dismissiveness in Arthur Daley's use of Her Indoors to refer to his wife in the television series Minder.

marcus says

turtledove is deplorable says

and you want to believe that all the college educated people are on your side

Is this the third or fourth time ? I lost count. She TD thinks "the vast majority of educated folks," is the same as "all educated folks."

marcus says

Do you people have no fucking shame ?

marcus says

turtledove is deplorable says

and you want to believe that all the college educated people are on your side

Is this the third or fourth time ? I lost count. She thinks "the vast majority of educated folks," is the same as "all educated folks."

No, it's easier to try to manufacture insult rather than admit error.

marcus says

Do you people have no fucking shame ?

Shame doesn't motivate conservatives; #butthurt works way better.

neplusultra57 says

No, it's easier to try to manufacture insult rather than admit error.

Surely your reading comprehension level isn't that low. Are you saying that "vast majority" is any more true than the word "all?" The point of my post was that some of us are obsessing over a word despite the fact that we understand what the person meant. All you are doing is proving my point. So thank you for that.

Vast majority, is a stupid term.
Majority = 50.1%
Therefore vast majority is MOST of the majority, which is a percentage less than 50%

Majority = greater than 50%. Vast means of very great extent or quantity; immense.

When I first used the term vast majority, I figured it just meant very large majority. In the context of elections, where these things are very close, education is a very good indicator of who people are going to vote for. Those leads are bigger when you look only at white people, and huge if you look at white women. Her leads that I found cited above were 15-25% and sometimes over 30% for white women. That's why people keep commenting that Trump is doing nothing to win over the suburban woman vote, which is going to sink him in PA. Although I thought that vast majority was apt in this context. However, I looked it up and a couple of the top hits indicated that it should be used for 75% or more or 90% or more. So, 60%/40%, which is a 20 pts lead would not qualify by that definition even though it is huge in political elections..

See my edit... My stupid iPad cut off my last point because I used less-than symbol. DoH!

Is what I meant...

Vast majority, is a stupid term.
Majority = 50.1%
Therefore vast majority is MOST of the majority, which is a percentage less than 50%

Vague term at best.

(Whatever my last post got so mauled, I'm almost giving up trying to make the point.)

junkmail says

Therefore vast majority is MOST of the majority, which is a percentage less than 50%

What you are describing is the vast majority of a majority. But nobody used that term. A vast majority is just something much greater than a 50% majority.

turtledove is deplorable says

All you are doing is proving my point. So thank you for that.

LOL. Yes described a broad set of voters which you tried to counter by describing a narrower set of voters. That fails, by definition, whether if comes from his “beloved source” or not. You moved on to word substitution in order to manufacture insult and succeeded in insulting yourself, so I guess we can count that as somewhat of a victory. Then you pretended he didn’t mean what he said, used word substitution again to try and introduce yet another set of voters different than the one he brought up in the first place, and called him smug. Presumably this grows the insult….by whom is a question you might ask yourself. It appears you’ve annoyed yourself enough.
I’m pleased you can manage to be grateful and continue to be wrong about what you and I and he said as well as the very underlying words all at the same time. That’s some feat.

There is no “more truth” inhering in the difference between a term denoting an absolute and a colloquialism effectively meaning ‘’more by great degree” unless one is determined to be insulted by the use in the first place.

turtledove is deplorable says

despite the fact that we understand what the person meant.

I understood it to mean vast majority. Which I would usually interpret to mean somewhere in the range of 65 to 90%.

If I were trying to convey nearly all, I would say nearly all, or "virtually every well educated person," something along those lines.

I think you're defensive, about liking Trump, for some reason. Maybe it's becasue you are getting in touch with your not deplorable side.

It is true Liberals lie like a rug.

If Satan himself were the republican candidate and Jesus was the democrat candidate, you would still have at least 40% of the republicans and even a significant number of educated republicans voting for Satan.

That's just politics. Man, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity would be slamming Jesus so badly. TPB would be having the time of his life getting all excited about the wonderful changes Satan was going to be bringing to America.

Btw, all kidding aside, do you think Trump could be the antiChrist ?

marcus says

Trump could be the antiChrist ?

Trump is the second coming...
Cheeto edition.

marcus says

If Satan himself were the republican candidate and Jesus was the democrat candidate

it'd be the first time I'd ever vote for a GOP presidential candidate.

marcus says

do you think Trump could be the antiChrist ?

No, he's just a garden-variety #DoucheBag

What was all this about Wikileaks being fake?

Today's leaks so far, now the third big doc drop since Friday:

* Aides worried her Iowa Campaign will false start (which it did) if Hillary doesn't drop 'hatred for everyday Americans' --- according to HER OWN AIDES. https://t.co/LagLTjONrW
* Hillary got veto power over NYT Quotes in Article
* Came up with a Catholic Conspiracy Theory ( https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/4364 )
* Pushed Donald, Carson and Cruz as early as April 2015. If Hillary loses to Trump, blame her campaign, brought it on themselves.
* Sandberg of Facebook shared research with Clinton Campaign in Early 2015 (unclear if Facebook or Personal Research - why Facebook came out publicly yesterday for Hillary, to get ahead of email leaks). Remember that Facebook employees claimed they were encouraged to downgrade certain stories.

... and Neera Tanden of the Center for American Progress is a complete non-progressive.

It doesn't matter November 9th is National uninstall Facebook and Twitter day.

They'll have their day in stock market hell.

Bwahahahahahaha

I'm seeing more and more Trump yard signs here ... hearing the same from friends in Florida, NY, California. Unbiased sources report huge early-voting and absentee advantage for Trump.

Best guess: Trump at 480+ electoral votes - maybe loses Rhode Island & Connecticut or Massachusetts.

Thunderlips Russian Agent 0069 says

* Aides worried her Iowa Campaign will false start (which it did) if Hillary doesn't drop 'hatred for everyday Americans' --- according to HER OWN AIDES

It is very clear that the aid is referring to the phrase 'everyday Americans.' These are writers talking about what words to use in a sentence. Here's the full quote:

I know she has begun to hate everyday Americans, but I think we should use it once the first time she says I'm running for president because you and everyday Americans need a champion.

The quote makes sense if 'it' in 'use it' refers to the phrase 'everyday Americans.' It's a trite phrase, and I hate it too.

Are you misrepresenting the quote on purpose or do you hate Hillary so much that you are blinded and can no longer see what is plainly sitting in front of you?