patrick.net

Rew says

This is a horrible myth that anyone who shoots shotgun can attest to. It very much depends on range and what the shell is.

In the close quarters of a home(the main scenario we seem to be discussing), I think FW's statement holds up. My only concern with a longer gun is maneuvering through the house, and having a perp grab the barrel as you step around a corner. On the plus side, the sound of a shotgun being pumped usually scares the shit out of most invaders.

Ironman says

Sorry, no.. Not a fan of them. I prefer semi-auto for capacity and ability of quick mag changes. If you're thinking about a revolver because of size, consider a compact 9mm.

This is good advice.

Ironman says

If it's size, my choice for a "pocket gun" is a Ruger LC9s 9mm.

The LC9's are a great gun, and pretty affordable too. If you're comfortable with limited round capacity, it's a great pick. Dig the single stack.

I shot the Glock 43 (single stack 9mm), and well, it was just ok. I do like the G42 (.380) better.

Ironman says

Not sure why BayArea was asking that question about the revolver, he hasn't checked back in yet. Was it for size or was it for ease of use?

If it's size, my choice for a "pocket gun" is a Ruger LC9s 9mm

If BayArea lives in Bay Area he has no need for "pocket gun" whatsoever: his chances of obtaining CCW permit in any of SFBA counties is as good as zero. So there is no point to live with a tiny gun which he won't enjoy shooting at the range. A "wonder-nine" would be much better choice.

Ironman says

"I have a small hand"

Redundant!

Ironman says

Not sure why BayArea was asking that question about the revolver, he hasn't checked back in yet. Was it for size or was it for ease of use?

Thanks for checking. I actually would like to have one pistol and one revolver in the collection. No major consideration to size since as mentioned above, CCW would be near impossible here in my county. I'm not even sure I'm ready for something like that even if it were possible to obtain. I have lots to learn first.

This thread just got more interesting lol

zzyzzx says

That is not an authorized hairstyle.

zzyzzx says

God bless yoga pants.

zzyzzx says

Horrible photochop.

looks like the women above know how to handle their guns

Ironman says

@BayArea

So, did you make a final decision on your new toy?

Yes, will most likely be a Glock 17 - 9mm. Admittedly, I need to get more familiar with CA gun laws before I pull the trigger on the purchase (no pun intended).

I'm in Bakersfield, CA for the weekend and heading to their gun convention today at their fairgrounds.

NuttBoxer says

In the close quarters of a home(the main scenario we seem to be discussing), I think FW's statement holds up. My only concern with a longer gun is maneuvering through the house, and having a perp grab the barrel as you step around a corner. On the plus side, the sound of a shotgun being pumped usually scares the shit out of most invaders.

The sound of a shotgun cocking, for a determined attacker, is not effective. The police can use it in 'semi-polite' company to get attention, but a determined attacker doesn't care. It's no greater fear inducing than an alarm or shouting, "Get out of my house! I've got a gun.". You can clickity-clack the slide there if you like for punctuation. So, shotgun noise effect rates very low on a reason scale, for the shotgun.

A shotgun loaded with a slug at 30ft has no advantage over a pistol. Now loaded with something like birdshot, at 30, you do have to aim but it is way more forgiving. But now we are talking bird shot stopping power. Is are attacker a drug laden zombie ready to eat face? If so, we have just made a trade off. Again, it all depends on what we are fending off. Someone calculating and hell bent on killing you ... specifically ... will. You would need professional 24/7 security to stop that threat.

Admittedly, I need to get more familiar with CA gun laws before I pull the trigger on the purchase (no pun intended).

Very smart. Those grabbing firearms for every bump in the night, in CA, are in for a rude awakening. Also, for home defense, see what you can do to increase your detection and the 'game of seconds'. Seconds between you and attacker are really where the fight is won and lost over. It isn't really a question of calibers and firearm types at all. Those that really think that are compensating for something, dumb, or both.

Caliber/platform aside, it's very tricky if you can't carry on your body and have kids. "Self defense" implies instantaneos access, and that's at odds with irresponsible yet super curious and inventive little people in the household. In a "shall issue" state you could carry on your body at all times, including in the house. Otherwise, routinely moving it to/from safe each time you come/leave home is too error prone, and mistakes are costly. Besides, in some places (i.e. professional part of Bay Area) there are sever social penalties for being labeled a "gun nut". This may be hard to avoid if you need to go through this "arm/disarm" drill several times a day. Something would eventually leak this little habit.
There are companies that try to solve it by making creative hiding places, but that's not good enough IMHO. I personally haven't figured it out for myself. Lifestyle optimization function just told me to not use "this" right for "this" purpose and seek alternative solutions.

Edit: if my wife wanted it for herself, that would've been a different story for a variety of reasons. She doesn't want it for herself though.

I'm also on the fence whether to pick up a pump vs a semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun.

The pump is cool and cheap, but the semi is hassle free (3x the cost ugh).

Ironman, own any shotguns? What do you recommend?

870 is what I'm looking at...

Do you find that the shorter barrel of the tactical results in any accuracy compromises at the range?

I cant say which are good, but I've seen TONS of different gun locks that are either fingerprint, RFID, or key/code locked. Some locks fit in the trigger area, preventing it from firing until you enter the code and remove the lock, so you can essentially leave the gun on the table safely because nobody can fire it. Other locks sometimes mount to tables, like your night stand next to your bed, and again, need a key/code entered to release the gun and make firing possible.

Some are listed here,
http://gundigest.com/concealed-carry/gallery-10-great-fast-access-gun-safes-home-defense/nggallery/image/gun-vault-speed-vault-0pen_b/
http://www.officer.com/directory/firearm-accessories/gun-locks-safety-devices

Ironman says

I was talking about the rifle, you pigs.... get your minds out of the gutter...

Of course with that camouflage on the only thing I can make out is the gun.

If I get a pump it'll be an 870

If I end up getting a semi, it'll probably be an M2

Ironman says

That's why the handgun is my number one choice. Even if the intruder gets right on top you, you can still squeeze off rounds at point blank range. You won't be able to do that with a long gun without a lot of training.

Too funny. The small dick brigade is out in force today. So how many intruder break ins with someone home that got physically attacked were there in ocean county last year? You're much more likely to shoot off your dick than an intruder. But that would assume you are a really great shot to hit such a small target.

@BayArea, I'm curious how a cost benefit analysis lead you to shop guns. What are your odds of being the victim of a home invasion? How much does being armed improve your chances in such an event?

loud dogs, movement detection lighting, and a home security system is pretty much all you need.
99% of intruders arn't going to take on all 3.

errc says

@BayArea, I'm curious how a cost benefit analysis lead you to shop guns. What are your odds of being the victim of a home invasion? How much does being armed improve your chances in such an event?

errc, I started this thread from a home-defense angle but I should be more complete in my position.

As I started off this thread, I never was too fond of guns for the first 35yrs of my life. I grew up in the East Bay, went to HS in Berkeley, and graduated from a liberal university (UC). So most of my life I've been influenced by a majority here in CA that doesn't take a favorable view on guns. During elections, the gun topic goes into overdrive. And certainly this election was no different.

One of my good friends, who is a Republican and owns several firearms offered to take me shooting last year. And I found it very interesting and frankly, quite fun. I also have an engineering degree. Once you get into bullet ballistics and kinetic energy of various cartridges, it gets even more interesting.

So again, although the angle was initially home defense, I guess I just enjoy going to the range and find guns to be an enjoyable alternate hobby to building cars, which I just don't have time for anymore these days due to the family and a demanding job.

Back to defense: I understand that most people will never experience home invasion in their lifetime, but it's still something I consider as a possibility. Some people choose a dog or an alarm system. My approach doesn't really consider cost-benefit analysis because to me shooting has a hobby element, and the alarm system doesn't. Therefore it's a tough comparison.

(cont)

I will say one thing that weighs on me is firearm security vs accessibility. With a family, you want to be able to get to your firearm quickly. But with small kids in the house you need to be sure they don't have access. Not easy because there's a tug-o-war between the two.

Also, I think it was pointed out above, but gun-owners should practice shooting and handling their firearm regularly. Guns are far too dangerous of a tool to own if you aren't totally comfortable operating them and get periodic practice.

And Ironman, after some more research I'm leaning towards the Glock19 and the Binelli M2 Tactical.

Lastly, a friendly note to liberals: Please learn the difference between a semi-automatic and a fully-automatic before engaging in gun debates. I see the terms misused constantly. And recognize that "fully semi-automatic" is a spoof term.

zzyzzx says

I also like the Ruger Scout rifles.

Pulled the trigger and got a CZ 75 sp01, Have a great local gun club/range that I'm joining 3-4 miles from my house, I enjoy shooting it for target practice, and I'm not 100% sure if I'll be using it as home defense, more likely protection if a horrible earthquake or something happens and shit hits the fan.