patrick.net

Quigley says

indc says

Regarding your comment "uppity indians of higer caste". Dont be a dick. It is not higher caste, its higher class

This is the fundamental cultural divide between Americans and Indians. The Indian immigrants I’ve known have been universally obsessed with status and class, and their pursuit of such is annoying as fuck to native born Americans. They’re unabashedly interested in self promotion, self aggrandizement, and selfish agendas. They have to make sure everyone knows of their accomplishments and anyone who is famous they have some connection to or just pestered into doing a selfie with at a concert or speaking engagement.

To Americans this is LOW CLASS behavior.

To Indians, this is them trying to assert that they are high class. And in this, they fail.

I am not questioning your observation. I am questioning your use of terminology "caste". Its negative connotations is what I want you to understand. What you say is applicable to all asians(middle-east, east asia, south-asia) I think.

indc says

I am not questioning your observation. I am questioning your use of terminology "caste". Its negative connotations is what I want you to understand.

There is nothing positive about a primitive caste system that claims some people are born superior, and some are born inferior.
You are not assigned a caste based on deeds as you claim, but by birth. Fucking stupid religious nonsense.
You can put all the lipstick you want on a pig, it's still a pig.

indc says

Quigley says

If you’re not Indian, your “caste” is effectively nothing, the lowest caste. That’s why almost nobody converts to Hinduism. Aside from having to believe in a bunch of silly looking gods, you’d be signing up to be the lowest class of Hindu society. Much better to be and stay a foreigner.

Oh and yes, uppity Indians of higher castes will back off if you call them out.

Low caste Indians tend to convert to Christianity in fair percentages. Lots of incentive!

Do you guys even know what is caste? Is your knowledge about caste from "english authors"? Its not low caste hindus who convert to christianity. It is uneducated hindus who convert to christianity. They are gullible and believe all the shit missionaries preach.

If you think christianity is so great convert a strong believer with arguments. Not a poor person with bribes.

Internet is full of people who...

I don't think it's the same thing. I live in Princeton, and the rich white assholes just bitch and moan behind you while you are in line. The Indians will try to walk right in front of you like you don't exist.

Islam is a failed experiment. Countries where Islam is dominant are at least 150-200 years behind Western Society.

theoakman says

I don't think it's the same thing. I live in Princeton, and the rich white assholes just bitch and moan behind you while you are in line. The Indians will try to walk right in front of you like you don't exist.

Let me give you an example so that you will understand those so called "upper caste hindus" you are talking about.

Lets say there are 40 people in line and the vendor says there are only 30 items he can sell. This keep happening everyday for 20 days and the rich guy is 35th person everyday, What will the "rich white asshole" do on 21st day?

It is not the culture that turns people into line cutting assholes. Its the scarcity of things that causes people to behave like that. After white men left them destitute it will take some generations to get back their humanity and surpluses. The second generation does not behave like this because they dont know what is living with limited resources does to their psyche.

Anybody who looks at another culture or society's system of hierarchies while ignoring their own is the pot calling the kettle black.

Goran_K says

Islam is a failed experiment. Countries where Islam is dominant are at least 150-200 years behind Western Society.

The whole "Islam the center of learning" is BS too.

@Curious2 is always talking about critical percentages crossed and what happens. Well, around 900-1000 most of the last Hellenes and Copts lost their Greek and converted to Arab Muslims in identity, and that was the end of "Science", which was entirely dependent on the old Greeks like Galen and Aristotle and Plato anyway. Arabs used the same bullshit "4 Humours" as Europeans used, coming from the same Greek Source. We've covered how Al-Kwarzimi was a converted Persian Jew translating HINDU systemic algebra into Persian and Arabic (and from thence into Latin).

indc says

After white men left them destitute it will take some generations to get back their humanity and surpluses.

@indc Please don't blame British colonialism on, say, Irish people, who suffered at least as much as the Indians.

"White" is not a useful term to distinguish people.

Patrick says

indc says

After white men left them destitute it will take some generations to get back their humanity and surpluses.

@indc Please don't blame British colonialism on, say, Irish people, who suffered at least as much as the Indians.

"White" is not a useful term to distinguish people.

I too dont like to use the term "white" it is too generic, but India was looted not just by british, It was also looted by dutch, french and portugese. What term do you suggest I use?

Thanks.

indc says

Patrick says

indc says

After white men left them destitute it will take some generations to get back their humanity and surpluses.

@indc Please don't blame British colonialism on, say, Irish people, who suffered at least as much as the Indians.

"White" is not a useful term to distinguish people.

I too dont like to use the term "white" it is too generic, but India was looted not just by british, It was also looted by dutch, french and portugese. What term do you suggest I use?

Thanks.

How about..... dutch, french and portugese.

Patrick says

Strategist says

Buddhism treats them better.

Quite a lot of low-caste Indians did became Buddhist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Buddhism_in_India#Dalit_Buddhist_movement

Around a 1000 years back, by the time Hinduism started re-assimialting back Buddhism (Hinduism's own reform movement) back into its fold, islamic invasions started. Hinduism didn't have time to re-assimilate Buddhism and Islam was this new aggressive kid on the block which ate up all the Buddhists. This is what changed history. All the regions of South/Central Asia that are Islamic today where mainly Buddhists in pre-islamic times. Iran was Zorastrian. Compared to this Dalit Buddhist movement won't even appear as a blip on the radar 1000 years from now and how easy/difficult it is for Hinduism to assimilate Islam in South Asia will probably be known after another 1000 years.

Strategist says

The worst thing about anyone converting to a different religion is, you end up jumping from one sinking ship to another.

Yeah, thats what the Hindus say too. You can stay in the Universe, you can study it, you can find out different ways in which the universe manifests itself in (1 god, 300 million gods, etc), or you can ignore it (become an athist), but you can't convert in and out of an all encompassing universe. Concept of conversion is absent from Hinduism and such "modern" antics are seen as futile, embarassing, and and a distraction. One is better off spending their energies on more serious and sincere pursuits like following their native belief system rather than fooling around with Conversion. If by chance your not happy with your native path, then don't worry about it, just pick up any path or a mix of paths, or none at all and just life your life sincerely, just don't worry about it (conversion crap) too much. All paths to god are equally good, don't waste time switching lanes. There is always another life to figure out things if this one doesn't work and we are all in this in-escapable journey, LOL :-)

Offcourse I am talking only strictly "philosphical" view of conversions in Hinduism. Culturally and practically, Hinduism considers "conversion" as an attack.

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

We've covered how Al-Kwarzimi was a converted Persian Jew translating HINDU systemic algebra into Persian and Arabic (and from thence into Latin).

Yes, and how the "Arabic" numerals including zero go back to India, contrary to Islamic PR that claims zero for Islam. The "Arabic" numerals were only called that because Europeans using Roman numerals learned the easier Hindu numerals from Arab traders, who had copied them. In the west, zero goes back to Ptolemy, centuries prior to Islam; it was also in China and India before Ptolemy. Ancient Romans denoted zero with a blank space. PatNet has a thread on the topic. Even the ancient Egyptians had a zero, showing Egyptians didn't become stupid until they fell under Islam. (Even now, smarter Egyptians tend to be Christian, and are persecuted in a more lethal version of the dumb jocks persecuting the smart but weak nerds.)

alpo says

Yeah, thats what the Hindus say too. You can stay in the Universe, you can study it, you can find out different ways in which the universe manifests itself in (1 god, 300 million gods, etc), or you can ignore it (become an athist), but you can't convert in and out of an all encompassing universe. Concept of conversion is absent from Hinduism and such "modern" antics are seen as futile, embarassing, and and a distraction. One is better off spending their energies on more serious and sincere pursuits like following their native belief system rather than fooling around with Conversion. If by chance your not happy with your native path, then don't worry about it, just pick up any path or a mix of paths, or none at all and just life your life sincerely, just don't worry about it (conversion crap) too much. All paths to god are equally good, don't waste time switching lanes. There is always another life to figure out things if this one doesn't work and we are all in this in-escapable journey...

Buddhist and Hindu philosophy has always been fascinating and eye opening. I do see it's philosophy thriving over time.
I wonder what philosophy Islam uses, besides Jihad, Martyrdom, and violence.

curious2 says

(Even now, smarter Egyptians tend to be Christian, and are persecuted in a more lethal version of the dumb jocks persecuting the smart but weak nerds.)

You see this all over Islam dominated Middle East. They say Muslims are not the only ones in Gaza or the West Bank living in so called suppression. Christians too are in the same boat. So why don't I see any Christian suicide bombers?

My mother in law is a “converted” Buddhist, supposedly to Christianity. After much observation, I believe it was just easier for her to incorporate another “god” into her personal pantheon. Belief in one God only is pretty much not going to happen. So she still does all her traditional Buddhist stuff, but does it in secret sort of like for good luck, which she prizes above all other things. Luck is the god that underpins the entire pantheon. If you are lucky, you win at life. That’s what I observe her to believe, and it comes with the usual gambling addiction, credit card debt, and fatalistic outlook.

indc says

What term do you suggest I use?

@indc How about "foreign invaders"? That would include, say, the Mughals, who devastated India.

To add a little balance, we should point out that these invaders tended to unify their subject countries by suppressing regional rivalries. And so India was unified by the British just like Ireland was. And then India split along religious lines just like Ireland once the British Empire was weakened.

indc says

I too dont like to use the term "white" it is too generic, but India was looted not just by british, It was also looted by dutch, french and portugese. What term do you suggest I use?

rando says

To add a little balance, we should point out that these invaders tended to unify their subject countries by suppressing regional rivalries. And so India was unified by the British just like Ireland was. And then India split along religious lines just like Ireland once the British Empire was weakened.

Indc, I would further state.......All suicide bombers are brown. Should Hindus be lumped in with them, because they are brown too? I'm sure you would protest on the grounds that all suicide bombers are Muslims, none are Hindus, therefore the more correct term to use would be "Muslim suicide bombers"
The same applies when you use the term "white"

scarce




indc says

Let me give you an example so that you will understand those so called "upper caste hindus" you are talking about.

Lets say there are 40 people in line and the vendor says there are only 30 items he can sell. This keep happening everyday for 20 days and the rich guy is 35th person everyday, What will the "rich white asshole" do on 21st day?

It is not the culture that turns people into line cutting assholes. Its the scarcity of things that causes people to behave like that. After white men left them destitute it will take some generations to get back their humanity and surpluses. The second generation does not behave like this because they dont know what is living with limited resources does to their psyche.

I appreciate the analysis, but I'm not convinced. IMO, It has nothing to do with scarcity. Their cart is full and they are already in possession of the items. This is simply waiting to pay at the self checkout counter.

Patrick says

A Kuwaiti social media star is facing a backlash after criticising new laws improving conditions for the country’s Filipino domestic workers.

Who cares, they're not black...

someone else says

indc says

What term do you suggest I use?

@indc How about "foreign invaders"? That would include, say, the Mughals, who devastated India.

To add a little balance, we should point out that these invaders tended to unify their subject countries by suppressing regional rivalries. And so India was unified by the British just like Ireland was. And then India split along religious lines just like Ireland once the British Empire was weakened.

You think british unified India? You dont know history. It was british who split India on religious line.
The muslim, french, portugese were bad, but they looted only physical things.

But british bastards are on another level. They tried to kill the spiritual strength of India. Even with muslims ruling India was number one country in regards to GDP. But british were at different level.

I dont want to say foreign invaders because there are many such invaders all over the world through out history, but the muslim and christian invaders are worst kind.

Strategist says
Indc, I would further state.......All suicide bombers are brown. Should Hindus be lumped in with them, because they are brown too? I'm sure you would protest on the grounds that all suicide bombers are Muslims, none are Hindus, therefore the more correct term to use would be "Muslim suicide bombers"
T...


I like your reasoning. Brown is all over the world, Indians dont call themselves brown. That term does not mean a thing for us. Infact its a racist term.
In US they use a term south-asian and britsh use the term asian lumping us all together with pakistan and bangladesh and other countries. We dont go around complaining about it. We are only offended when someone calls us pakistani.
Newspaper in Britain say asian committed the attack. What I am saying is we are already lumped with them. And you will get what you sow.

indc says

You think british unified India?

Yes. That's what Indians say.

indc says

It was british who split India on religious line.

It was the Muslims.

indc says

But british bastards are on another level.

Man you are full of hate. You would make a good Muslim. Ever considered joining ISIS? Their new recruiting motto:
"Out with the bang, and in with the virgins"

Strategist says

indc says

You think british unified India?

Yes. That's what Indians say.

indc says

It was british who split India on religious line.

It was the Muslims.

indc says

But british bastards are on another level.

Man you are full of hate. You would make a good Muslim. Ever considered joining ISIS? Their new recruiting motto:
"Out with the bang, and in with the virgins"

I guess I should learn my history from white man?
Why you think I am full of hate, you dont like a brown person talking back to you? I am showing you facts which does not match your perceptions and you are calling me terrorist.

theoakman says

scarce




indc says

Let me give you an example so that you will understand those so called "upper caste hindus" you are talking about.

Lets say there are 40 people in line and the vendor says there are only 30 items he can sell. This keep happening everyday for 20 days and the rich guy is 35th person everyday, What will the "rich white asshole" do on 21st day?

It is not the culture that turns people into line cutting assholes. Its the scarcity of things that causes people to behave like that. After white men left them destitute it will take some generations to get back their humanity and surpluses. The second generation does not behave like this because they dont know what is living with limited resources does to their psyche.

I appreciate the analysis, but I'm not convinced. IMO, It has nothing to do with scarcity. Their cart is full and they are already in posse...

I am not trying to convince you. I am just posting my observation as a person who lived in India and in US. I see the change in India as they are growing financially.

What's the matter with you ppl on this thread?!

This isn't some anti-Hindu forum!

All of the terrorists, and yes, this includes the white guys who planted two bombs in my hometown of Boston MA, were MUSLIMS! And yes, I know ppl who knew that woman who was killed in that attack.

And if the two thespians were Armenian Christians, the chances are, we'd be eating Lamejun together in Watertown MA, listening to Metallica and drinking some wine. They wouldn't be a bunch of killers.

Seriously fine, I get it, the Christian west doesn't like the notion of channeling entities, which in essence, is what the Hindu pantheon of gods represents to the theologians, regardless of the whole Atma thing. BFD, that's not here or there. What's here and now is a bunch of crazy muslims, killing ppl left and right, and you guys are fighting over religious ideologies.

Rin says

What's the matter with you ppl on this thread?!

This isn't some anti-Hindu forum!

Welcome to Patnet. No religion, country, ideology, organization, opinion, politician, celebrity, or God will be spared.

Rin says

What's here and now is a bunch of crazy muslims, killing ppl left and right, and you guys are fighting over religious ideologies.

One for thing, these Muslims don't just hate the west, they also hate the east, meaning the countries between Korea and Singapore.

In other words, because they've been living in the cultural toilet for a thousand years, they want to take others down with them, including the Christian majority west, Shinto/Buddhist/Atheist east, and anyone else, like let's say the Zoroastrians (who don't even have a homeland and are the real Persians), down with them.

Strategist says

No religion, country, ideology, organization, opinion, politician, celebrity, or God will be spared.

Wrong, we need allies in this fight against Muslims. As an American, I don't care for a man's faith provided that he's against the proliferation of Islam.

Rin says

Strategist says

No religion, country, ideology, organization, opinion, politician, celebrity, or God will be spared.

Wrong, we need allies in this fight against Muslims. As an American, I don't care for a man's faith provided that he's against the proliferation of Islam.

Islam, socialism, and politicians are the most attacked and slaughtered here. It's a lot of fun.

indc says

But british bastards are on another level. They tried to kill the spiritual strength of India. Even with muslims ruling India was number one country in regards to GDP. But british were at different level.

Not sure what you mean by British trying to kill spiritual strength of India? You mean Islamic invasions didn't? In either case, why so bitter? Warfare wasn't alien to Indians and if it helps in any way, keep in mind that the British themselves have been colonized several times loosing their culture and religion each time. The Muslims have also been colonized several times loosing their culture and religion each time. Be happy that at least your religion and culture survived so that you have the luxury of holding a grudge. You at-least know who built the ancient temples in India and you can still recite Rigveda, because the British don't know who built Stonehenge or what stories they have lost and the Muslims don't know who built Kabaah or what stories their ancient cultures told. History is long and shit happens. The colonizers were themselves colonized, not once but several times.

Strategist says

Buddhist and Hindu philosophy has always been fascinating and eye opening. I do see it's philosophy thriving over time.
I wonder what philosophy Islam uses, besides Jihad, Martyrdom, and violence.

If you are trying to say that Christians haven't wrecked and perpetuated large-scale violence in the name of religion, I find it difficult to believe. But in either case, work it out with your Muslim and Jewish brothers as to which religion will ultimately convert crush and dominate the world :-). As far as terrorism is concerned, yes that is a problem.

Rin says

Wrong, we need allies in this fight against Muslims. As an American, I don't care for a man's faith provided that he's against the proliferation of Islam.

Agreed. We need a powerful, strong India.

Meaning, not one run by the Congresscucks.

alpo says

Strategist says

Buddhist and Hindu philosophy has always been fascinating and eye opening. I do see it's philosophy thriving over time.
I wonder what philosophy Islam uses, besides Jihad, Martyrdom, and violence.

If you are trying to say that Christians haven't wrecked and perpetuated large-scale violence in the name of religion, I find it difficult to believe.

Here is what I am saying.......It does not matter what happened in the past. Every society and culture has raped, murdered, and slaughtered other societies at some point in time. We are all products of those perpetrators and their victims today. Lets focus on today, and lets stop the societies that practice Islam from repeating the past. I'm not saying every other society/culture/religion is perfect. They are not at all perfect, but the religion and culture that lags progress from all others, that is the most dangerous, is Islam. It's a serious problem that must be solved, and our greatest barrier to solving those problems are the liberals who won't even recognize the problem.

Strategist says

They are not at all perfect, but the religion and culture that lags progress from all others, that is the most dangerous, is Islam. It's a serious problem that must be solved, and our greatest barrier to solving those problems are the liberals who won't even recognize the problem.

But why would you care whether your neighbor is gay or whether a group of people thousands of miles away are following a primitive non-progressive religion? As long as your gay neighbors don't bother you and you don't bother them and as long as your "advanced" culture doesn't bother their "lagging behind" culture and vise versa, what's the problem?

Personally I think that the fundamental philosophy of major Abhramic religions (Christianity and Islam) which says that their religion is the only true way to god and hence the rest must be converted is old and archaic thinking. Thats why I said earlier, you guys get together with your Islamic brothers and work it out as to who is going to dominate and take over the world :-). From the perspective of Hinduism (and other Indic religions and perhaps many native religions - Inca, American Indians, etc), both Christianity and Islam need serious reform. I think if the "converting" religions of the world learned how to respect other cultures and religions half the problem that this world has would be gone.

indc says

white

Until recent past, there was no interaction with people outside of Indian for general public. They are seen mostly in news, all of them look alike. Given the negative feeling about brits. all "white" looks bad. But in reality there are many types of "whites", just like may types of diverse Indians, Chinese. From outside all Indians look same for who never dealt with them.
Its an unfortunate tragedy that mostly Brits looted everything back then. But it is quite possible to rebuild the country, hope they are doing it ok now after Islamic congress party is gone for now. The biggest danger to Indian now is Islamic virus, and they are breading like crazy, also moving from neighbors and they are approaching to a critical mass(20/80 rule apply) to wipe-out like they did it in neighboring countries. Political machine is on their side for voting that democracy does not help in this case at least in theory.

In today's world, we all made a great progress, religion should not have any lead roll in any aspect of life. Unfortunately lot of constitutions were made out of strong religious back grounds, ideally they need to be rewritten.
If some one is still hanging on religion means, lazy, ignorant, guilt free molestation, murder, easy money, power or all of them.
Oops, forgot to mention, God is out there to write off everything.

Quigley says

indc says

Regarding your comment "uppity indians of higer caste". Dont be a dick. It is not higher caste, its higher class

This is the fundamental cultural divide between Americans and Indians. The Indian immigrants I’ve known have been universally obsessed with status and class, and their pursuit of such is annoying as fuck to native born Americans. They’re unabashedly interested in self promotion, self aggrandizement, and selfish agendas. They have to make sure everyone knows of their accomplishments and anyone who is famous they have some connection to or just pestered into doing a selfie with at a concert or speaking engagement.

To Americans this is LOW CLASS behavior.

To Indians, this is them trying to assert that they are high class. And in this, they fail.

That is true. There are the universally acceptable values, but things are changing there (very) slowly. Cast is not used as much like before but play a roll in India still. Quality education will change the society and break the barriers which is still missing in India. They need to privatize edu with right regulation to meet the quality. Educated mass can make a better society other wise you can expect the same old crap.

alpo says

Patrick says

Strategist says

Buddhism treats them better.

Quite a lot of low-caste Indians did became Buddhist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Buddhism_in_India#Dalit_Buddhist_movement

Around a 1000 years back, by the time Hinduism started re-assimialting back Buddhism (Hinduism's own reform movement) back into its fold, islamic invasions started. Hinduism didn't have time to re-assimilate Buddhism and Islam was this new aggressive kid on the block which ate up all the Buddhists. This is what changed history. All the regions of South/Central Asia that are Islamic today where mainly Buddhists in pre-islamic times. Iran was Zorastrian. Compared to this Dalit Buddhist movement won't even appear a...

>Offcourse I am talking only strictly "philosphical" view of conversions in Hinduism. Culturally and practically, Hinduism considers "conversion" as an attack.
The real problem is, in the game of democracy, the politicians put one against the other to maximize his/her outcome at expense of the others pain, it creates a mini war zone. India experiencing massive sound pollution that few times a day, every day, they pray through loud spears what a tragedy for every few hours. The converter get free sex all over, including with minors.
In some places as part of conversion, one is obligated to offer first of what ever you have. Like animal born, if you are farmer, first egg from chicken etc, to the church father, in some cases to my disbelief, I heard first time sex with a virgin (I suspect mostly minor) girl to make marriage ready. The mother of all frauds, the religion is real estate play, the "God" appears magically at prime or near prime locations. Generally it happens if the lot is (near) empty or gov. owned. No one will dare to ask a question, its easy occupation, no taxes and gov. provides endowment funds.
Religion is full of crap, not sure when will this world realize that there is no f. God. Its all about extracting $$$$ from others.

Rin says

Islam

True. Islam already got EU, it can spread into the last hope USA. This should be prohibited in every aspect.

Strategist says

Rin says

Strategist says

No religion, country, ideology, organization, opinion, politician, celebrity, or God will be spared.

Wrong, we need allies in this fight against Muslims. As an American, I don't care for a man's faith provided that he's against the proliferation of Islam.

Islam, socialism, and politicians are the most attacked and slaughtered here. It's a lot of fun.

>It's a lot of fun.
Not really, its a serious matter, Islam can destroy this country in few generations. I don't see any political will that will safeguard this country from the raise of Islam.

alpo says

Strategist says

They are not at all perfect, but the religion and culture that lags progress from all others, that is the most dangerous, is Islam. It's a serious problem that must be solved, and our greatest barrier to solving those problems are the liberals who won't even recognize the problem.

But why would you care whether your neighbor is gay or whether a group of people thousands of miles away are following a primitive non-progressive religion? As long as your gay neighbors don't bother you and you don't bother them and as long as your "advanced" culture doesn't bother their "lagging behind" culture and vise versa, what's the problem?

Personally I think that the fundamental philosophy of major Abhramic religions (Christianity and Islam) which says that their religion is the only true way to god and hence the rest must be converted is old and archaic thinking. Thats why I said earli...

As an atheist I am tolerant of gays. I am not tolerant of human rights abuse and the violence against us all that Islam practices, and neither should any one else. In an age of WMD, we need to take proactive steps to control this dangerous Islamic beast.

Strategist says

As an atheist I am tolerant of gays. I am not tolerant of human rights abuse and the violence against us all that Islam practices, and neither should any one else. In an age of WMD, we need to take proactive steps to control this dangerous Islamic beast.

"Tolerant", can you use that term to your wife. Say I am tolerating you and see her response. Gays are not your subjects that you are "tolerating them". There is a new term "mutual respect" try to understand and use it. Respect them as humans.