patrick.net

bob2356 says

Because you say so? It's true because I believe it should be true. Illegals could be all gone in la very short time. All that has to happen is to direct the Justice department to prosecute employers until no one will hire an illegal. But those libruls in the oval office and controlling both houses of congress don't seem to want to take that step. There is only one group keeping illegals in the country. Conservative who block every attempt to eliminate the jobs they are here for.

Right, but I'm supposed to true that Democrats aren't pandering to illegals by not reporting them to ICE, attempting to legalize their citizenship, and letting them vote in local elections.

Sorry Bob, the era of the Establishment Legacy Media is over. Just because a few big networks say it's so, doesn't make it so.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

You also realize it's possible for the mother and kids to be on welfare, but the father who lives with them to be an undeclared co-habitant who works off the books for cash-only, yes?

What does this have to do with illegals not being able to collect most forms of welfare? And that the little they do collect is mostly from local and State sources, where they DO pay taxes.

LeonDurham says

What does this have to do with illegals not being able to collect most forms of welfare? And that the little they do collect is mostly from local and State sources, where they DO pay taxes.

How does a day laborer pay taxes on cash off the books?

Sales Taxes? Great! Tell everybody under $50k/year they don't have to pay anything but sales tax, it pays for everything!

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

How does a man working off the books pay taxes on cash off the books?

I already told you. Sales tax. Property tax. Gas tax. Pretty much all local taxes and a lot of state taxes. You know, the ones that actually pay for his limited amount of welfare.

P N Dr Lo R says

reinterpreting everything within the context of race/gender/sexual orientation/all whites are racist/recycling

CBOEtrader says

Tyranny is the deliberate removal of nuance.

Yep. Glad you pointed that out.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Right, but I'm supposed to true that Democrats aren't pandering to illegals by not reporting them to ICE, attempting to legalize their citizenship, and letting them vote in local elections.

I suppose it's true republicans aren't pandering to illegals by ignoring obviously bogus documentation to illegally give them poor paying jobs and driving the wages down for poor Americans. If there were no jobs there would be no one here to report to ICE or vote in local elections.

Goran_K says

Not just that, the father and mother may not even "legally" marry but live together, so the mother gets more benefits, or even both can claim benefits as separate entities.

This problem isn't exclusive to illegals. I know you're not saying that here, but just wanted to point this out. We've got a lot of legal black and white trash abusing this setup currently. I know of one specifically, who funny enough is a white girl engaged/married to a legal Mexican dude (#racedoesntmatter). This is not a joke either. She won't get married because they'll cut the food stamps and some other benefit. She's literally told my wife this. They also had a wedding, obviously without the certificate. Pretty stupid, but almost impossible to enforce kind of thing.

LeonDurham says

I already told you. Sales tax. Property tax. Gas tax. Pretty much all local taxes and a lot of state taxes. You know, the ones that actually pay for his limited amount of welfare.

Then great! It's time for California to cancel all taxes but the sales tax, since it pays for Everything!

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

How does a day laborer pay taxes on cash off the books?

Why aren't they reporting them to ICE instead of giving them work? Why aren't you reporting the employer to the IRS if you know about it? Are you someone who is supporting illegals by not speaking out?

bob2356 says

I suppose it's true republicans aren't pandering to illegals by ignoring obviously bogus documentation to illegally give them poor paying jobs and driving the wages down for poor Americans. If there were no jobs there would be no one here to report to ICE or vote in local elections.

The discrimination is that it's illegal for them to be here in the first place.

If you want to have open borders, campaign for it honestly and win elections.

Don't do it by stealth which undermines democracy.

If illegals voted Republican, the Democrats would be demanding a Wall.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

The discrimination is that it's illegal for them to be here in the first place.

If you want to have open borders, campaign for it honestly and win elections.

Don't do it by stealth which undermines democracy.

That makes very little sense. Giving them jobs so they pour across the border undermines democracy.

Maybe you should just give up and admit the illegals are here because businesses give them jobs and keep them here by contributing massive amounts of money, almost all to the republican party, to make sure that no politician will derail the money train.

bob2356 says

That makes very little sense. Giving them jobs so they pour across the border undermines democracy.

Maybe you should just give up and admit the illegals are here because businesses give them jobs and keep them here by contributing massive amounts of money, almost all to the republican party, to make sure that no politician will derail the money train.

So San Francisco didn't give Illegals the right to vote?

Jerry Brown didn't lower the maximum penalty for misdemeanors to 364 days deliberately, in order to help illegals escape deportation orders that kick in for anybody incarcerated for a year or more?

Shit, the fucking Mayor warned illegals about a Federal Enforcement action. That's active interference. Yeah, no politicking here.

I already said countless times on this site that NeverTrump, GOPe Republicans ARE in favor of illegal immigrants. However, so are most Democrats.

RafiMaas says

I really don't consider not giving a fuck about something as "in favor".

Giving illegals the right to vote is "in favor".

The Democrats not only don't want to do anything, the only thing they want to do is have amnesty WITHOUT controlling the border or increasing enforcement. In fact, particularly in California, Democrats have been doing everything possible to impede Immigration Enforcement.

Whereas half the Republicans lie about giving a shit.

RafiMaas says

Which San Francisco Mayor warned illegals?

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Federal immigration agents arrested more than 150 people in California in the days after Oakland’s mayor gave early warning of the raids, it was announced Tuesday.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials announced that agents made the arrests in a three-day sweep starting Sunday that covered cities from Sacramento in the north to Stockton in the Central Valley. About half of those arrested for being in the country illegally had criminal convictions, the agency said.

On Saturday, Oakland Mayor Libby Schaaf warned residents that “credible sources” had told her a sweep was imminent, calling it her “duty and moral obligation” to warn families.

The warning “was meant to give all residents time to learn their rights and know their legal options,” she said in a statement Tuesday night reported in the San Francisco Chronicle.

California lawmakers from Gov. Jerry Brown down to local mayors have resisted a Trump administration immigration crackdown that they contend is arbitrarily hauling in otherwise law-abiding people and splitting up families that include U.S.-born children.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/28/oakland-mayor-isnt-sorry-warning-immigrants-over-ice-arrests-more-than-150-california-raids-and-slam/380387002/

Even the McPaper agrees that California Lawmakers are resisting the "Trump administration immigration crackdown".

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

The Democrats not only don't want to do anything, the only thing they want to do is have amnesty WITHOUT controlling the border or increasing enforcement.

Could you point to any Dem saying they don't want to control the border? Any?

More strawman arguments from the king of strawman arguments.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Then great! It's time for California to cancel all taxes but the sales tax, since it pays for Everything!

So, I list 3 taxes and you pretend I only listed one? Dishonest much?

bob2356 says

and keep them here by contributing massive amounts of money, almost all to the republican party, to make sure that no politician will derail the money train.

Literally just made up nonsense. We can all play pretend if ya like

LeonDurham says

Could you point to any Dem saying they don't want to control the border? Any?

How about the opposite, why don't you demonstrate that at least a plurality of democrats want to control the border and reduce Immigration.

LeonDurham says

So, I list 3 taxes and you pretend I only listed one? Dishonest much?

Property tax isn't paid by renters directly, but by property owners. In the case of an illegal woman and children claiming welfare, the rent may be paid by the state. The Sales Tax and Gas Tax alone pay for ALL the services illegals use? Great! You can halt the CA income tax on all incomes under $100k!

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Property tax isn't paid by renters. The Sales Tax and Gas Tax alone pay for ALL the services illegals use? Great! You can halt the income tax on all incomes under $100k!

While I agree that, in abstract, renters don't pay property taxes--in the real world, they do.

Illegals don't use very many services.

LeonDurham says

Illegals don't use very many services.

When an off-the-books laborer illegal falls off the roof and goes to the ER without insurance, who pays?

How many years of sales taxes does it take to pay $5000 minimum for a broken limb?

LeonDurham says

While I agree that, in abstract, renters don't pay property taxes--in the real world, they do.

That's a little misleading.

You can just as accurately say they drive UP the costs of housing by increasing demand in areas of very limited supply - esp. for affordable housing.

(Which is one reason the wealthy of US and Europe and Canada LOVE mass immigration).

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

That's a little misleading.

You can just as accurately say they drive UP the costs of housing by increasing demand in areas of very limited supply - esp. for affordable housing.

Or you could say they drive DOWN the costs by providing cheap labor for companies building housing stock. Which is the real reason the 1% looks the other way. They want cheap labor.

When an off-the-books laborer illegal falls off the roof and goes to the ER without insurance, who pays?

That could be the homeowner. In many places if you have someone who was injured while working on your house, you are liable to be sued. Since illegals can even get a driver's license in CA, I presume the state is loopy enough to allow an illegal to sue if injured on the job.

Or you could say they drive DOWN the costs by providing cheap labor for companies building housing stock. Which is the real reason the 1% looks the other way. They want cheap labor.

Yep, and that goes for both Dem and Repub 1%ers.

The only one who would actually move to a mandatory national E-Verify system is Trump, and expect lots of resistance if/when he moves in that direction.

LeonDurham says

Illegals don't use very many services.

Since they don't use many services and don't cost the US anything, how many are you willing to bring into your house?

The Cost of Illegal Immigration to the United States.

..."At the federal, state, and local levels, taxpayers shell out approximately $134.9 billion to cover the costs incurred by the presence of more than 12.5 million illegal aliens, and about 4.2 million citizen children of illegal aliens. That amounts to a tax burden of approximately $8,075 per illegal alien family member and a total of $115,894,597,664. The total cost of illegal immigration to U.S. taxpayers is both staggering and crippling.

Broadly, the costs include $29 billion in medical care, $23 billion for law enforcement, $9 billion in welfare, $46 billion for education.

Just consider the cost of teaching an illegal alien child who doesn't speak English. FAIR estimates an average cost of over $12,000 a year, and that can reach $25,000 in New York. Add to that welfare, health care, school lunches, and the per student price soars. "

https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

they drive UP the costs of housing by increasing demand in areas of very limited supply - esp. for affordable housing.

Well phrased and accurate. In the coastal urban "zoned zone," immigrants pile into entry level (sometimes called "affordable") units, bidding up rents and worsening conditions for the neighbors. For example (drawn from real life), when 9 people pool their income and move into a 1br apartment, consider the building hot water supply issues. In a tall building, consider also the elevator waits, and parking. Since the zoning and planning rules prohibit more construction, the supply of housing does not increase to meet the demand, and thus the price goes up even as the value (quality of life) is reduced.

CBOEtrader says

bob2356 says

and keep them here by contributing massive amounts of money, almost all to the republican party, to make sure that no politician will derail the money train.

Literally just made up nonsense. We can all play pretend if ya like

So what do you attribute the total lack of enforcement against employers to? Both under Trump and Bush. Total control of congress under both. Yet nothing. Feel free to tell us why. I'll be waiting, and waiting, and waiting.

bob2356 says

Both under Trump and Bush.

Did Obama or Clinton do something that Bush and Trump didnt? I'm not following your choppy logic

MrMagic says

Just consider the cost of teaching an illegal alien child who doesn't speak English. FAIR estimates an average cost of over $12,000 a year, and that can reach $25,000 in New York. Add to that welfare, health care, school lunches, and the per student price soars. "

https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

Still flogging that report? Where the national park service is welfare for illegals. ROFLOL.

bob2356 says

Where the national park service is welfare for illegals.

Is that where the illegals actually go to school?? I didn't know that?

BTW, why don't you dispute the numbers?

I know, that will NEVER happen... maybe after pigs fly you might defend your BS.

MrMagic says

bob2356 says

Where the national park service is welfare for illegals.

Is that where the illegals actually go to school?? I didn't know that?

BTW, why don't you dispute the numbers?

I know, that will NEVER happen... maybe after pigs fly you might defend your BS.

I've disputed your numbers and defended my numbers just fine going as far back as your CIC days including this report. You just don't care to remember. No point in rehashing it again, I made my point the first time even if you pretended not to understand.

bob2356 says

I made my point the first time even if you pretended not to understand.

Translation: I got nothing but BS..

Hint: if you made your point previously ( if it really existed), it's easy to link or repost it... but you can't link to a null post.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

MrMagic says

Hint: if you made your point previously ( if it really existed), it's easy to link or repost it... but you can't link to a null post.

For anyone else I would.

RafiMaas says

I bet his construction companies don't use it.

You think mar-a-lago does? Oh wait they hired a bunch of H2 workers who didn't need e-verify. Conveniently right after trump expanded the H2 program. Amazing coincidence that one. Out of 144 jobs 143 to H2's 1 to a Us citizen. MAGA. (for the .1%)

LeonDurham says

Or you could say they drive DOWN the costs by providing cheap labor for companies building housing stock. Which is the real reason the 1% looks the other way. They want cheap labor.

And drive down the wages for natives - typically poor blacks. Or elbow them out entirely.

As for driving down the costs by building housing stock, it's pretty much a trend in the US, Canada, UK that affordable housing isn't what's being built, especially in urban areas where the jobs are.

From London to the SFBA, Older housing is being cut down into expensive studios; new construction is mostly luxury apartments aimed at the Upper Class.

bob2356 says

RafiMaas says

I bet his construction companies don't use it.

You think mar-a-lago does? Oh wait they hired a bunch of H2 workers who didn't need e-verify. Conveniently right after trump expanded the H2 program. Amazing coincidence that one. Out of 144 jobs 143 to H2's 1 to a Us citizen. MAGA. (for the .1%)

That's right. A billionaire used his govt influence so as to save maybe $500 dollars/day on employee salaries for seasonal work. BOMBSHELL!

Well, at least McCain will vote again this November, like other dead people and some illegals

CBOEtrader says

That's right. A billionaire used his govt influence so as to save maybe $500 dollars/day on employee salaries for seasonal work. BOMBSHELL!

Why isn't he hiring American workers to bring back American jobs. Why is he hiring mexican rapists instead? BOMBSHELL.

bob2356 says

Why isn't he hiring American workers to bring back American jobs. Why is he hiring mexican rapists instead? BOMBSHELL.

Hmm, because neither college students, educators, or mothers are off November-April, aka Peak Snowbird Season?