patrick.net

While in the office with about twenty guys, waiting to clock out from work, a guy i'd never met before say to me, "You must be single" I said "Yup...How did you know?" He says, "You look like your happy to be going home." Sad just sad.


There is nothing init for men! men know there is a massive chance they will lose their friends, respect , personal time, lose sex life and their money . Men are just being smart.

just_dregalicious says

just_dregalicious says

Furthermore when you picked your wife she either wasn't allowed to own a credit card or had only been granted that right recently.

See, this is why you guys are having the "success" that you're having with women, you just don't get it. You treat woman like second class citizens.

My wife and I are equals in everything we do, there's no "your money, my money, our money" - we combine what we have from day one, it's only "our money". There were years that I made more money than her, there were years when she made more than me. It didn't matter, it all went into one pot, and we planned our budget, spending, and savings just based on one pool of income. It's a equal partnership, no matter what.

This is why you guys keep failing. You're putting up barriers and walls early in a relationship, and that undertone carries through everything you do with them. Then you wonder why it all turns to shit. You're going in thinking the woman is the "enemy" from day one, then wonder why it doesn't work out.... duh...

If one of us tries to gain a little bit too much "power", the other one smacks us back into reality.

MrMagic says

just_dregalicious says

Furthermore when you picked your wife she either wasn't allowed to own a credit card or had only been granted that right recently.

See, this is why you guys are having the "success" that you're having with women, you just don't get it. You treat woman like second class citizens.

My wife and I are equals in everything we do, there's no "your money, my money, our money" - we combine what we have from day one, it's only "our money". There were years that I made more money than her, there were years when she made more than me. It didn't matter, it all went into one pot, and we planned our budget, spending, and savings just based on one pool of income. It's a equal partnership, no matter what.

This is why you guys keep failing. You're putting up barriers and walls early in a relationship, and that undertone carries through everything you do with them. Then you wond...

You've got it half right. The fact is, 50% of all marriages fail. It IS somewhat of a crapshoot. You can NEVER tell what is in someone else's heart. Men need to protect themselves. Women lie all the time. This is a truism. Add to all this is another fact that men are still held to a higher standard of financial responsibility (even in the court system) even as women cry from the mountain tops that they are equal to men. Hogwash. Men get FUCKED in many ways.

I agree that society is best with marriages such as yours and I root for couples like you every day. I hope you have many many many like minded children. Me: cohabitating with a single, divorced mother of 2
We have lived together for 15 years. I've heard her emote about marriage for 15 years. Meanwhile she is divorced, her father is twice divorced, her mother is 3 time divorced and her brother is divorced. No thank you. BUT I am willing to stand tall and deliver, to the best of my ability, to love her and her two girls so that MAYBE the cycle can be broken.

Pro Tip: find a single mother and help her raise her child(ren) and be a great (not good...GREAT) man AND COHABITATE IN A STATE WHERE THERE ARE NO COMMON LAW MARRIAGE LAWS.

Dialogue usually goes something like this:
Woman: I would like to get married.
Man: Do you know how to cook?
Woman: No.
Do you keep a clean house? No.
Are you trustworthy? No.
Do you have kids? Yes. From several guys.
Do you eat junk food? Yes.
Do you have health problems? Many.
Do you have money problems? Du-uh.
Do you drink? Yes, girls just want to have fun.
What do you think marriage is? Flying around the world on a permanent vacation.
Man: Thank you for the info.
Woman: ... He has commitment problems.

WineHorror1 says

You've got it half right. The fact is, 50% of all marriages fail. It IS somewhat of a crapshoot. You can NEVER tell what is in someone else's heart.

The reason many fail is because of this trueism...

A woman sees a man and tell her girlfriends, "he's great husband material, and I can change him". Then, they get married, she tries to change his ways, and fails, he stays the same guy she married, and they get divorced.

A guy sees a woman and tells his buddies, :"she's perfect wife material". Then, they get married, they have some kids, she gets fat, she gets lazy, she becomes irresponsible with money, and changes as a woman, when he was hoping she would stay the same way when they married, and they get a divorce.

WineHorror1 says

I agree that society is best with marriages such as yours and I root for couples like you every day. I hope you have many many many like minded children.

We have 3 kids, two are married and have their own kids. So far, both relationships are solid. Our third kid is still single and working up the career ladder and he's searching for a woman. Our kids aren't the type to complain about their bosses or work, or complain that a task is too hard. They just jump in and "git er done". I believe they learned that from us. Kids are a victim of their environment. If the parents are losers and serial divorcees, or alcoholics, or druggies, or lazy, etc. the odds are, they will be too.

Here's the deal. Marriage is TOUGH work, and probably the toughest job anyone can have (raising kids is second tough). Marriage has tons of ups and downs, highs and lows, and if the two people haven't set their mind to make it work, then it will become part of that 50% statistic of divorce. That's where I see the issue. Most people DON'T have the "do what ever it takes" mentality, and would rather choose to give up, instead of make it work. You see this in work situations all the time. It's the 80/20 rule in business.

In the end, if you're not "in it to win it", you're destined to fail, and be part of that statistic.

MrMagic says

WineHorror1 says

I agree that society is best with marriages such as yours and I root for couples like you every day. I hope you have many many many like minded children.

We have 3 kids, two are married and have their own kids. So far, both relationships are solid. Our third kid is still single and working up the career ladder and he's searching for a woman. Our kids aren't the type to complain about their bosses or work, or complain that a task is too hard. They just jump in and "git er done". I believe they learned that from us. Kids are a victim of their environment. If the parents are losers and serial divorcees, or alcoholics, or druggies, or lazy, etc. the odds are, they will be too.

Here's the deal. Marriage is TOUGH work, and probably the toughest job anyone can have (raising kids is second tough). Marriage has tons of ups and downs, highs and lows, and if the two people haven't s...

Good stuff. I wish you and all of your progeny good will.

MrMagic.

You are truly blessed, finding a wife that will be a childhood sweetheart to grave life companion. Two things you mentioned I believe are in your favor. First, neither has unrealistic expectations from the other. Secondly, you mentioned sometimes you make more money and sometimes she does. That indicates both of you have a common value about money.

I waited until I was 37 to get married and that was to a 31 year old woman I had been dating for 2 years. (Until then, I was in the Air Force and dumped any girl I was dating when I got transferred). During my dating years, I was not seriously interested in divorcees or women with kids. Plenty of women in their mid-to late twenties fit that criteria, and not just the undesired as you say, but women who had other plans besides early marriage. I would also avoid getting serious with any woman who was irresponsible with money, as I figured she would drag me down into poverty with her.

Some great comments in this thread, and wise words from experienced men!

Joke time!
What’s the most fattening food in the world?
(Feel free to insert punchline)

HeadSet says

During my dating years, I was not seriously interested in divorcees or women with kids.

HeadSet says

I would also avoid getting serious with any woman who was irresponsible with money, as I figured she would drag me down into poverty with her.

See, those are GREAT points. A guy really has to go in with both eyes WIDE open and see the whole picture. If they just think with their "lower" head, bad things happen in the future.

I have a brother-in-law who divorced, and now cycles through the dating scene with the divorcees with kids. Every one of them are extremely needed, and are just looking for a cash cow. That's a really difficult situation to try and have a long term relationship with.

HeadSet says

Until then, I was in the Air Force and dumped any girl I was dating when I got transferred).

In that type of situation, dating for sex has it's benefits. With some of the guys posting above, that seems to fit high on their list. But in reality, even though the sex part is fun, how much time does that really take up in a 24/7 week and how much does all the other B.S. of life fill in that time?

There has to be a balance and I think guys really need to dig in deep and understand ALL the important pieces of the puzzle when it comes to finances, moral believes, work ethic, future goals, kids, and everything else before "buying the cow". If the puzzle isn't balanced, there will be war in the future.

Quigley says

Joke time!
What’s the most fattening food in the world?
(Feel free to insert punchline)

Wedding cake.... that's an old one..

Thank goodness my wife really doesn't like cake :)

Don’t marry women who don’t live like there’s god. Liberal women aren’t worth the time.

Good women make great wives, religion got this right.

Women just took it to far, started with the white feather campaign, no way was I going to join that cult.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/test-case/201210/in-defense-men-0

Agree with finding the right girl and getting married. Much happiness. Marriage is a partnership, and if you find the right partner, then great. Also, everyone is making it out like the women are totally evil - and yet I am sure we all know men married for 20 years that go off their rocker and have an affair, etc... They may really regret it (mid life crisis) - but that also destroys the marriage. These women are hurt/damaged as well by the moral failings of their husband - they need to pick up the pieces and move on together somehow - or divorce. So, I wouldn't say that divorced women would necessarily make poor partners - it is very situational.

That said, women do hold the upper hand here. Everyone is taking "sex" so casually - and yet if there is a pregnancy the man is doomed. She basically holds his future economic success in her hands. If they are married - that was the deal: if you don't want kids, don't get married. Ironically, society has given women more power by saying that even outside of marriage if she gets pregnant the man has to support her and the child (yes- you are supporting both if you look at the CS tables, particularly if you make way more money than she does). God forbid she deliberately delivers to term a known handicapped/down child - you will be on the hook for the rest of your life (for disabled, it doesn't end at 18).

When I hear about young folks live together "as if" they were married, you know her next step is to get pregnant. Not funny- but true.

CS laws were really designed, IMO, to suppress birth rates of poor (or maybe racially motivated, but not sure) by forcing the male to financially support the child so he couldn't have more children easily, etc... The real problem is that instead of limiting welfare/government child support for out of wedlock mothers - we encourage it. So, they get the best of both worlds. If the man can't / won't support, the man's wages are garnished and/or he gets jail time. And, if he is too poor, the government will pick up the tab anyway. She wins either way. It used to be a stigma to be a "single mother" (ie never married and no man around) - but no longer. Now it is a badge of pride as if they are doing something "great" and are "doing it on their own" when in fact they are not as there is financial/medical support.

So, if society is treating you like shit whether you are married or not - then why get married at all?

The military is a good example where females have downgraded our Warrior Spirit. Thank God I am retired from the Army.

krc says

if you don't want kids, don't get married.

.

Or just don't have kids. It's easy enough to do.

society has given women more power by saying that even outside of marriage if she gets pregnant the man has to support her and the child

As it should be. If you impregnate a woman you should support the kid. If you do not want that, then wear a condom. Ans if the girl starts talking about maybe having a kid, put a padlock on your zipper and stop dating her.

HeadSet says

As it should be. If you impregnate a woman you should support the kid. If you do not want that, then wear a condom. Ans if the girl starts talking about maybe having a kid, put a padlock on your zipper and stop dating her.

That's the part I don't get. Guys want to blame the woman for entrapment. Doesn't it take two to tango?

Worrying about entrapment, you only have yourself to blame. Why is it just her responsibility?

Booger says

krc says

if you don't want kids, don't get married.

.

Or just don't have kids. It's easy enough to do.

Pretty simple solution. Apparently not for some here.

Not saying it is just her responsibility. But, that is why there is "marriage" - which I view as a contract implying that family formation is "next" and that both parties expect or should expect that pregnancy can/should/will happen. Sure - that doesn't always happen and great for those who want to marry without having kids, or can't for whatever reason.

This discussion was about why men don't want to marry - and I think a big point is "what is the difference". As to "wrap it" - agreed. But there are lots of accidental pregnancies (or "accidental" haha) and not sure why the decision on keeping the child or not has ZERO input from the male who will be financially responsible. Since there is no moral distinction between married/unmarried and the ramifications are the same - why bother?

Fundamentally, men want sex and women want babies.

HeadSet says

society has given women more power by saying that even outside of marriage if she gets pregnant the man has to support her and the child

As it should be. If you impregnate a woman you should support the kid. If you do not want that, then wear a condom. Ans if the girl starts talking about maybe having a kid, put a padlock on your zipper and stop dating her.

Why should it be like that? That's nonsense unless you want to say that women are not equal but below to men. If you let the man dictate the woman and the kid's upbringing in an archaic patriarchical sort of way, then you can also stick the man with the responsibility of paying fully. But if you are a modern equalist, then they should share the financial burden.

MrMagic says

That's the part I don't get. Guys want to blame the woman for entrapment. Doesn't it take two to tango?

It does. So the financial burden should be shared. But it isn't.

Bitches are entirely too uppity and need a firm hand, a whipping post, and negligees that wash out blood easily.

In most of the marriages I have seen the man submitted to the woman. Laws and society force him to. This is not the natural state of humans but today the converse is the rule.

Notice the vitriol towards me in some posts above? I hear the loud crack of the pussy whip and can read the envy between the lines.

I am not seeking a "partner" in life; I'm the leader and she either gets with the program or not. Who in hell thinks they will find anyone equal enough to them to be a "partner" anyway?

My wife and I argue. We disagree. We work to make it work. We've talked and both of us have admitted there were times we wanted to walk away. But neither of us are quitters and neither of us believe in the 'happily ever after myth'. Marriage takes effort.

My skeptical mind says that people are too lazy make the effort and work for their marital happiness.

LastMan says

My wife and I argue. We disagree. We work to make it work. We've talked and both of us have admitted there were times we wanted to walk away. But neither of us are quitters and neither of us believe in the 'happily ever after myth'. Marriage takes effort.

There you go guys, another guy that gets it.

LastMan says

My skeptical mind says that people are too lazy make the effort and work for their marital happiness.

You're not skeptical, that's the truth. That's where the real pussies are, too lazy to make it happen. They rather whine and complain that it's the woman's fault.

MrMagic says

You're not skeptical, that's the truth. That's where the real pussies are, too lazy to make it happen. They rather whine and complain that it's the woman's fault.

Nah see too many pussy whipped fools with Stockholm's syndrome who think they have a great thing going. Just like in Malaysia a Muslim majority nation. Women were complaining about the rigid anti women laws. One senior woman in power said it was the women's fault-because women must learn to be a great virtuous woman, a whore in bed and a great chef -if only a woman acted like that, then their husbands will still be interested in them. So basically it si always the woman's fault.

In western society it si always the man's fault. IT makes zero economic sense today to get married-unless your wife is also educated and career oriented. Because she can quit any day . In CA for example you can be married as little as 10 years and now owe support for life not to mention huge amounts in child support-with no accounting or choice in how it is spent. You may be a millionare but frugal-why is the govt forcing you to spend obscene amounts of money on child support.

It is not women or men-but the government and rules of law. Just as a rape victim's testimony in court will not carry weight in Saudi arabia-as a woman's testimony is only worth half a man's testimony-the uS is gone nuts with respect to men.

Those with assets best follow Rin's law and if you want a kid get a surrogate. Anyone who thinks that just because you have a been married a long time means you have a great marriage and are never lonely is just in lala land. In many cases I have seen it is water, water everywhere, but nary a drop to drink-the tale of a boater marooned ins ea.


The laws need changing and women wanted equality -time to step off and get of the alimony/oversize child support train wagon.

That won't happen and so people will continue to distance themselves-when you are looking at a 50% divorce rate-thank you mam-the sex was great-but plenty of other fish in the sea.

Left wingers too, they've started this whole bullshit of trying to push women vs men. Particularly white women vs white men. That was the next step in Identity Politics after race and sexual confused people weren't enough to push them to victory.

And too many stupid women believe in that horseshit, those women weren't smart to begin with. But constantly exposed to feminist crap, it ruins their lives with ideology of bullshit.

clambo says

In most of the marriages I have seen the man submitted to the woman. Laws and society force him to. This is not the natural state of humans but today the converse is the rule.

Notice the vitriol towards me in some posts above? I hear the loud crack of the pussy whip and can read the envy between the lines.

I am not seeking a "partner" in life; I'm the leader and she either gets with the program or not. Who in hell thinks they will find anyone equal enough to them to be a "partner" anyway?

I think you're attempting to make a good point. In every single facet of life, there is a hierarchy. Men are top of the heap. At least real men anyway. Nuptials used to say..."honor and obey". Even the bible says a woman must submit.

Men who know they are to be top of the heap will not submit. Society loses.

I'm married as well but I'm also terrified that I could lose my kids and most of my shit if she wants to go there. She has never given me reason to think that, but I've heard men say that who have also gone through a crippling divorce. I think that no fault divorce was the big mistake we made in destroying the nuclear family and the damage is being compounded on every incoming generation in ways we don't even understand yet.

Some of us are not interested in the struggle to "make something work". Why is this considered a virtue when the end result is an older, chubbier, more controlling female who withholds affection as a negotiation tactic?

1. Cooking? I can cook. I took organic chemistry and the lab recipes were more complex than food recipes.

2. Cleaning? I can hire this out or do it myself if it's a rainy day. Also, female visitors tend to like to clean my place if they get bored and don't want to go out sightseeing, beach, shopping, etc. (sometimes).

3. Laundry? Come on. Cleaners iron your shirts and other stuff I do myself.

4. Keep me company? Some of the dullest nonsense conversations have taken place in my abode with a female partner. I doubt I could take decades of this. Over short time periods, it's fun however to converse with them. The average female is so quaintly misinformed and clueless yet loves to lecture others, while regaling me with idiotic drama events with her friends.

5. Sexual favors? I think it's actually more effective to let them think I have multiple options; this seems to be a "jealousy trap" to induce good behavior. If the female knows she's very pretty this doesn't work very well. If another female knows that I sometimes see a beautiful female this keeps her seeking my approval, not I seeking hers.

I'm going to pick my battles carefully; I am not entering into an arrangement where it's me against the govt., society and an angry female if things don't go her way.

Pardon my excessive posting, it's a fun subject and I can touch type.

clambo says

I'm going to pick my battles carefully; I am not entering into an arrangement where it's me against the govt., society and an angry female if things don't go her way.

Sounds like with all your negativity against women, you'd be better off with a dog or cat. At least they won't try to steal all your "stuff" or get a lawyer to do it...

clambo says

Some of us are not interested in the struggle to "make something work".

Thanks for proving my point about laziness...

Close Thread!

I haven't seen anything but valid points.

mell says

But if you are a modern equalist, then they should share the financial burden.

You share the financial burden if you share the burden of care. 50/50 custody arrangements are common these days. Maybe one week on and off, or whatever works for the parties involved. But even in these situations, income discrepancies are equalized.
My sister makes more than her ex, so she’s had to pay him child support for years even though they both have the kids half the time.
He was pretty bummed when she left him as he was planning on her being his meal ticket. Now she’s married to a guy who is older but very well off and they have a new toddler.
So even with the child support, she’s doing much better.

clambo says

The average female is so quaintly misinformed and clueless yet loves to lecture others, while regaling me with idiotic drama events with her friends.

This. Most women are boring. Even the smart ones will go on and on about stupid girl drama they encounter. But they’ll be more informed and thoughtful at least. I left several relationships before I met my wife because of dull conversation.
I remember one woman who was not only misinformed but also bossy and was trying to shame me for my dating profile (I was 26 and said I’d be open to dating 18-30) on the first date. Like i was some kind of pedophile for being open to dating an 18 year old. She pissed me off so much I just never called her again (rather than saying anything to end things). When she finally called me back to ask what was up, THEN I told her to fuck off!

"Now she’s married to a guy who is older but very well off and they have a new toddler.
So even with the child support, she’s doing much better."

Smart woman. Move on and up to better prospects and solidify the financial relationship with a child.

Understand - I don't know the details of why there was divorce, so maybe it was truly the end vs a "I want more/better", etc...
And I do agree that the burden shouldn't be "whoever makes the most contributes the most" for C/S. It should be a 50/50 deal. Otherwise, one party is subsidizing the other.

If I could become the slovenly hanger-on of a nymphomaniacal rich bitch, I might consider marriage.

Quigley says

This. Most women are boring. Even the smart ones will go on and on about stupid girl drama they encounter.

and you think guys are better?

Quigley says

and was trying to shame me for my dating profile (I was 26 and said I’d be open to dating 18-30) on the first date. Like i was some kind of pedophile for being open to dating an 18 year old.

Shit test and competition control

Marriage is outdated and serves no practical purpose that another legal instrument couldn't handle. I used to think it was important for children's legitimacy, I have reconsidered, again, another legal instrument can establish guardianship.