patrick.net

E-man, I found your post. You said:
"It's ironic to see our own folks wanting our own American company to fail especially the loser short sellers on seeking alpha. They couldn't invent or create anything positive to contribute to the society. They want to benefit based on someone else's failure. What a bunch of losers."

That's what I was referencing. I agree with you!
(There is some strangeness wrt searching your post history...just saying.)

CBOEtrader says

kt1652 says

Shorts are unethical. They typically spread false rumors, pump down a stock & dump.

Shorts [sic] are unethical. Haha, smh

Grammar nazi? Shorts for short seller.
Did you spend your career cramming words in Excel boxes?
Did you ever dictate quick replies via android while driving home?

kt1652 says

Grammar nazi? Shorts for short seller.

Right over your precious little head.

I'm laughing at you classifying shorts [sic] as unethical.

But yes, the sic is there to point out the ambiguous use of made-up terms.

Both suggest you are far outside your lane, perhaps you should refrain in judging risk takers as unethical.

Peloton said it has already signed truck platooning deals with a number of fleets in North America. Commercial deployment of the Peloton platooning system is expected to occur by the end of this year.

Truck platooning lowers fuel consumption and CO2 emissions. Given that trucks can drive closer together, the air-drag friction is reduced significantly. ... Truck platooning helps to improve safety. The technology for platooning with trucks of the same brand (so-called ‘mono-brand platooning’) is already available. By 2023, it should be possible to drive across Europe on motorways crossing national borders with multi-brand platoons., without needing any specific exemptions. – ACEA European Automotive Manufacturers Association.
All the smart states have enabled legislation for the technology.
https://enterpriseiotinsights.com/20180821/connected-cars-2/nine-us-states-already-approved-full-truck-platooning-study
The U.S. Army plans to deploy dozens of autonomous trucks next year, far ahead of its original time frame.
The military is pushing ahead with autonomous vehicle development at the same time the civilian trucking industry is adopting similar technology. Commercial truck firms, for example, are testing a different type of platooning where digitally tethered trucks of three or more follow each other closely, typically 40 feet. Digital communications and automatic emergency braking reduce wind drag and improve fuel efficiency.
https://www.trucks.com/2018/09/26/us-army-deploying-autonomous-trucks/


www.youtube.com/embed/pwbLO81faGc?t=10

Oh my, not again...

"A Modified Ponzi Scheme": 78% Of Tesla Operating Cash Flow Has Come From Customer Deposits.

An impressive, 46-page Value Investor Club write-up on Tesla was published by user jcoviedo on Monday and promptly leaked thereafter, which - not surprisingly - pitched a short thesis which sees the stock price first dropping to Musk's margin call level of roughly $200/share, after which a "massive reset" as core investors dump, sends it below $50 share.

There was one striking observation that goes to the heart of Tesla's biggest weakness: its liquidity, and specifically that Tesla is nothing more than a deposit-churning Ponzi scheme, that only keeps its light on thanks to gullible buyers who front the cost of production of the next model, and the next, and so on. Here is the passage in question:

Tesla is in effect a modified Ponzi scheme. Throughout its history, the company has financed its operations by announcing a new product (originally the roadster, then the Model S, the Model X, the Model 3, the Semi, the roadster 2, and now the Model Y as well as the vaporware full self driving package) and then taking deposits for the product before it has ever designed a production system for the product.

The company then spends the deposits on operating expenses and the capital expenses to manufacture the original product. When the company is close to running out of funds, the company announces a new product and takes deposits on it in order to finish the production of the first product. Since 2008, 78% of TSLA's cash flow from operations has come from customer deposits!

While it is debatable whether this practice is legal or not, there it one thing it clearly isn't, especially in the long run: Sustainable.

And Musk know it. As the report's author points out, "unlike a bank, Tesla does not segregate customer deposits and in reality customer depositors are just unsecured creditors of the company.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-18/modified-ponzi-scheme-2008-78-tesla-operating-cash-flow-has-come-customer-deposits

Oh, and for those of you looking to plink down a deposit on a Model Y (just a reskinned Model 3), the $2500 is NOT a deposit, it just holds a place in line.

Good luck with that.

Yes Patrick, Tesla is down to about $269 and not far from its 52 week low of $244.

GuruFocus.com has rated it steady with 4 out of 10 for financial strength, and has increased its profitability score to 6 out of 10.

Tesla Model 3 may save the company.

Nice bounce, a few nuances (see below) still keeping me on the fence with TSLA.
If it shoot past 295 strong, it'll get my attention.
bought XLK instead, been good.
===
"Elon Musk and the SEC face off in a New York courtroom to determine whether he is in contempt of court.
Legal experts' estimates range from saying that a contempt finding could lead to:
- fine in excess of $20 million
- further Twitter restrictions
- removal from the board or as CEO

On the other hand, some good news.

"Elon Musk’s warm reception in China is a wake-up call to Tesla’s skeptics"

https://www.jato.com/tesla-model-3-becomes-europes-best-selling-pure-electric-vehicle-in-europe/

kt1652 says

"Elon Musk’s warm reception in China is a wake-up call to Tesla’s skeptics"

Chinese companies will be making cheap Tesla clones within months! I smell "technology transfer."

$269.69/share -$22.12 (-7.58%)

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/tesla-falls-reporting-worst-sales-172712125.html

Tesla falls after reporting their worst sales numbers in history

Patrick says

What do people think about Tesla (TSLA)?

@patrick... did you buy around the time you made this thread?

Tesla's stock tumbles toward multi-year low after Wedbush slashes price target, again.

Shares of Tesla Inc. TSLA, -5.10% tumbled 5.8% toward a 2 1/2-year low in morning trade Monday, after analyst Dan Ives at Wedbush slashed his price target, citing "major concerns" about the trajectory of the electric car maker's growth prospects.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/teslas-stock-sinks-toward-multi-year-low-after-wedbush-slashed-price-target-again-2019-05-20




EJECT.... EJECT..... EJECT....

I continue to meet steadfast believers who keep buying more unless they're broke. I have never liked Teslas story but it's too early to write them off - however it's clearly not looking good. They need to be careful that no big investor pulls the plug, it's propped up mainly by big money, the retail fans are a small fraction.

I am interested in stocks of companies that solve problems.

Over paying for a Status Symbol is not solving a problem.

longs are unethical, they typically spread false rumors and endless optimism to pump a stock up and sell

$199.31/sh -5.77 (-2.81%)
Pre-Market: 7:38AM EDT

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/morgan-stanley-cuts-worst-case-213318555.html

Morgan Stanley cuts worst-case price for Tesla to $10

Down to $185.61 per share!

Tesla is a status symbol? ???

If Tesla is a status symbol, what about MBZ, BMW, Porsche, Lexus, Acura, Jaguar, Cadillac, etc...?

Haters are going to hate.

zzyzzx says

Down to $185.61 per share!

It broke its $250 support. Looks like the next support is around $150-$160/share. We’ll have to wait and see.

I’m not so much of a stock guy. I’ll stick with real estate. Just got a nice payday today.

E-man says

If Tesla is a status symbol, what about MBZ, BMW, Porsche, Lexus, Acura, Jaguar, Cadillac, etc...?

You are so right, E-man. But Lexus stock is not traded. Toyota stock is, and for decades they solved the problem of low quality /poor value for American consumers.
I hope you enjoy your Tesla, E-man. Not the same thing as investing in the stock, though.

B.A.C.A.H. says

E-man says

If Tesla is a status symbol, what about MBZ, BMW, Porsche, Lexus, Acura, Jaguar, Cadillac, etc...?

You are so right, E-man. But Lexus stock is not traded. Toyota stock is, and for decades they solved the problem of low quality /poor value for American consumers.
I hope you enjoy your Tesla, E-man. Not the same thing as investing in the stock, though.

While all ICE companies said making electric cars were not feasible. Guess who solved that puzzle? Now, look at which companies are chasing Tesla? Porsche, MBZ, BMW, Volvo, Ford, GM, etc...

Haters are going to hate. Deniers are going to deny. I love my Tesla. No reason to deny it. It always puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. When I come back from a vacation, the first thing I do is to take my Tesla out for a spin. That’s how fun to drive it. How much does that worth?

Tesla’s best days are ahead of it.

I live and work in the silicon valley. The car is adored by the masses.

With time the issues will be resolved and the stock price will hit all time highs.

BayArea says

Tesla’s best days are ahead of it.

I live and work in the silicon valley. The car is adored by the masses.

With time the issues will be resolved and the stock price will hit all time highs.

Seriously doubt that. It's a good car and there's no reason to hate it but it won't be able to make a profit before competition closes in. Maybe the batteries and gigfactories and other business such as patents etc. can save it but the car alone likely won't.

But if you gamble on the long term recovery, what would be a good entry point?

Any point is fine, you can’t time markets.

mell says

But if you gamble on the long term recovery, what would be a good entry point?

E-man says

Haters are going to hate. Deniers are going to deny. I love my Tesla. No reason to deny it. It always puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. When I come back from a vacation, the first thing I do is to take my Tesla out for a spin. That’s how fun to drive it. How much does that worth?

Dude, it's not all about you.

Patrick's original question, was not if you think your Tesla is a great car.

His question was, is it a good stock in invest in? Since he posed that question, the stock has dropped considerably.

Just because some of us don't think TSLA is a good stock to invest in, does not mean that we are, as you put it, "haters". As a lifelong resident of the Bay Area, I hope Tesla thrives, because of the huge payroll here. Many in my community work in that factory, some in my family acquainted with Tesla employees. I don't know any personally, but I have met one at the gym. But, I do know folks who work for Tesla suppliers. You see, they don't just support families of their direct employees. There's also a legion of folks here who work for suppliers. I'm even related to some of those.

We are not "jealous" of your Status Symbol, and we are not Haters. We are grateful for folks like you for all you do for the local economy.

But, Patrick's question was about the stock as an investment. Even after it dropped so much since he posed that question, it is even now still Priced For Perfection, for mass sales to a mass market that does not exit. Because, the mass market cannot afford for such expensive Status Symbols. A latte, perhaps. Maybe even a Michael Kors handbag or North Face jacket. But not a Tesla car.

about the same as I think about sodastream..

komputodo says

about the same as I think about sodastream..

I sure hope so. I did great with sodastream.

BayArea says

Tesla’s best days are ahead of it.

I live and work in the silicon valley. The car is adored by the masses.

With time the issues will be resolved and the stock price will hit all time highs.

Bitcoin and Crypto-currency
by BayArea on 5 Nov 2017 305 comments, latest 10 hours ago

BayArea says

What do you all think about it from an investment point of view today? I have some buddies in the finance world who are quite bullish on it and claim we are just scratching the surface. Judging by the recent performance, they may be right.

For people who are investing in Bitcoin, what are you using to invest and what recommendations do you have for a new investor?

B.A.C.A.H. says

Since he posed that question, the stock has dropped considerably.

It’s a moving target but the stock price is higher today than when Patrick posted.

From Mush: https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/fascinating-conversation-with-renowned-short-seller-jim-chanos-ISo0eNv-Xk-a9TGCEU6Nkg/

Too volatile for me.

I did miss the initial boat. Did buy a 1,000 later and sold recently to not deal with constant up and downs of it.

BayArea says

It’s a moving target but the stock price is higher today than when Patrick posted.

True that. Up less than one dollar for calendar year.

It's not Cool, nor is it Hip, but SP500 up over 20% this year.

Yes, I've made money on Tesla so far. Up 17% for me, but I have to admit I was in the red for a while.

Anyway, it's all basically just noise in the short term. Real investing is done in years and I haven't even owned it a year yet.

B.A.C.A.H. says

BayArea says

It’s a moving target but the stock price is higher today than when Patrick posted.

True that. Up less than one dollar for calendar year.

It's not Cool, nor is it Hip, but SP500 up over 20% this year.

Don’t forget the worst December since the Great Depression

I’ve made 10% before selling. It was play money. It would be a gamble for me and I can’t do that.

It’s been about 6% yoy profit for me. Not greasy, but not bad either.

Cybertruck makes an appearance at the 5:00 minute mark in the SNL DNC debate that I posted on the Bloomberg thread. There's no such thing as bad publicity. What is the probability that AhhhNOLD buys one of these

Well, this explains why it is style challenged...
He attributes its lack of curves to the machines that make it; they aren't strong enough to bend the ultra-hard steel, which is produced by Musk's companies. He plans to use the same alloy for SpaceX's Starship rocket.
"Reason Cybertruck is so planar is that you can't stamp ultra-hard 30X steel, because it breaks the stamping press," Musk tweeted. "Even bending it requires a deep score on inside of bend, which is how the prototype was made."

Patrick says

How would you come up with a fair price per share?

You need to make friends with a quant.