patrick.net

They probably got laid more, too. Who wants to trade places, though? More vacation, but also more fleas. Get laid more, but your teeth rot out in your 30s and you die soon after.

And there were no family law courts.

Just go on welfare and your entire life becomes a vacation! It's wonderful!

I think the fundamental problem is that in capitalism, the lion's share of a worker's productivity (today easily 75%+) goes to the capital class rather than to the worker, and that's before any government levies any tax.

If the wealth producers got to keep most of their production, then the wealth producers wouldn't have to work to exhaustion to scrape by. It's exploitation of producers by the capital class that causes this problem.

Dan8267 says

the lion's share of a worker's productivity (today easily 75%+) goes to the capital class rather than to the worker

Isn't that what God intended? Everyone knows that workers are just lazy bums who deserve their present and eternal punishment.

Dan8267 says

If the wealth producers got to keep most of their production, then the wealth producers wouldn't have to work to exhaustion to scrape by. It's exploitation of producers by the capital class that causes this problem.

"After Ford’s announcement [of the $5 work day], thousands of prospective workers showed up at the Ford Motor Company employment office. People surged toward Detroit from the American South and the nations of Europe. As expected, employee turnover diminished. And, by creating an eight-hour day, Ford could run three shifts instead of two, increasing productivity.

"Henry Ford had reasoned that since it was now possible to build inexpensive cars in volume, more of them could be sold if employees could afford to buy them. The $5 day helped better the lot of all American workers and contributed to the emergence of the American middle class. In the process, Henry Ford had changed manufacturing forever."

There's barely any employee turnover where I work. People leave because they are retiring (with pensions), not because some CEO decided to "increase productivity" with layoffs and firings. Last month we were the most productive terminal in the entire Western Hemisphere. Tell you anything?

John Bailo says

What about indentured servants?

They would come to the American colonies, work the land for 7 years...and then get to own it...acres of it!

Today we spend our whole life paying off a 30 year mortgage and end up with a 2800 sq. foot plot!

Well if you live in that New Jersey town, you end up paying $30,000+ a year in property taxes for ever. So just because you paid the mortgage, doesn't mean you stop paying!

They got to rut like warthogs, rotting teeth, UTIs, PIDs, VDs, fleas, ticks, B.O.,horsehair mattresses and all, so that they could produce enough cockroach peasant replacements during the short, horrid, painful, uncertain life expectancies.

Rut in the kitchen, rut in the fields, get rutted by passing aristocracy, RUT,RUT,RUT, squat out baker's dozens of rug rats, RUT RUT RUT. Work, RUT, RUT, work, pass out from plague, RUT, Rut the living, Rut the dead, RUT RUT RUT!

Does kind of sound like the welfare population, only without the work part.

I feel fortunate to have equivalent of 21 paid days off plus 8 paid holidays. In 2 more years, I will have 5 more paid days off. But a lot of people that I know are not as fortunate. Some folks don't have any paid time off so even if their boss approves vacation, the lost wages must be added to flight/hotel to calculate true cost. And some folks work in jobs where their boss gives them shit and acts like they are doing them a huge favor by letting them have 1 measly day off which is often followed by some deadline that must be met soon after return to work. American masochism at its finest.

Quigley says

Just go on welfare and your entire life becomes a vacation! It's wonderful!

I thought there's a 3 yr limit in the US?

B.A.C.A.H. says

Quigley says

Just go on welfare and your entire life becomes a vacation! It's wonderful!

I thought there's a 3 yr limit in the US?

Not really.
http://statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Vacation time? Damn! more of that Medieval European Socialism. lol

lostand confused says

B.A.C.A.H. says

Quigley says

Just go on welfare and your entire life becomes a vacation! It's wonderful!

I thought there's a 3 yr limit in the US?

Not really.

http://statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

We just assume that they are all lazy fucks? Are there stats to support that theory also?

egads101 says

Quigley says

Just go on welfare and your entire life becomes a vacation! It's wonderful!

right wing douche bags always say this; they prefer to believe the meme that welfare is some easy way to live without working, instead of actually spending some time researching the subject.

You know that single mothers not getting support for their kids are the number one demographic on welfare?

Who am I kidding, right wing douche bags never know anything, they just pop off opinions and refuse to ever turn their brains on.

Yeah , like this one. One kid fine, two enough-but 15 kids by the time you are 37? Then she has the gall to say somebody owes her and somebody needs to take responsibility? That is how screwed up America is-the people who make poor choices demand the rest take care of them and then yell at them for their help.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/NAR3B8S6nsc

If you know how to play this game, you can find the loopholes:

1. K-12Teachers have 185 days off/year; University professors have more.

2. Many nurses work 3 twelve hour shifts/week; per diem nurses set their own days and hours.

3. Seasonal employment in Alaska is good if you can land a Davis Bacon job (~$40/hr)

jdeppe says

University professors have more.

No kidding. Some of them have time to make thousands of blog posts.

jdeppe says

If you know how to play this game, you can find the loopholes:

1. K-12Teachers have 185 days off/year; University professors have more.

2. Many nurses work 3 twelve hour shifts/week; per diem nurses set their own days and hours.

Wow, you just shat on some pretty meaningless jobs to a modern society. Maybe we should fire all those overpaid grade school teachers and let the disgruntled greeters and fry cooks at Walmart and McD's fill those jobs. That would really help us advance into the 21st century.

Got a challenge for you: visit your nearest university and talk to a couple of mid-career professors who are running science or engineering research labs. Ask them how the loophole is working out for them...what they do on all those days off...how many hours a week they work... I'm not defending social science professors who write blog posts, though ;-)

jdeppe says

University professors have more.

Doubtless there are University Professors who get 185+ "days off" but I haven't met any. There are "service" committee requirement and research when not teaching typically.

Our entire vacation this summer was about 2 weeks worth, spread out here and there. Even summer nights and weekends even are filled with time spent reading papers, writing grant proposals, reviewing other's work, maintaining equipment in the lab, advising graduate students and checking their work. We went on a few days' road trip up the coast and while we are driving up PCH she's on a conference call for journal paper review panel. In the hotel at night after the kids are asleep she's reading papers.

Also if you get paid for 9 months, then choose to spread the money over 12 months of checks, is it really a "vacation"?

I get paid vacation time, and I can take it when I like. Mrs. Vicente OTOH doesn't actually get "vacation" time during the year. She has to teach every class and not miss any, unless she makes a swap to get another prof to cover her class. But then she owes that person the same. She used to teach summer classes, to make her department happier and make extra money. They tried to twist her arm this year and she said HELL NO she needed every day of the summer to get research done.

Anyone who thinks professor is some easy gig where you practically don't work should try it themselves. Frankly I'm glad only one of us is a professor, had I pursued that route we'd probably be divorced and our kids would be a mess.

Vicente says

I actually get paid vacation time. Mrs. Vicente OTOH doesn't actually get "vacation" time during the year. She has to teach every class and not miss any, unless she makes a swap to get another prof to cover her class. Then when she owes that person the same.

Mrs. works at CC? Or is part time at a UC?

Quigley says

There's barely any employee turnover where I work. People leave because they are retiring (with pensions), not because some CEO decided to "increase productivity" with layoffs and firings. Last month we were the most productive terminal in the entire Western Hemisphere. Tell you anything?

It's about to get really productive with the new personal free automated container system that we're building over at PALO berth 144-145

Although the Medieval worker did get more vacation time than modern workers, there was severe political oppression.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/rAaWvVFERVA

Vicente, keep enjoying my 9.3% state income tax!

B.A.C.A.H. says

Vicente, keep enjoying my 9.3% state income tax!

haha, you know texas is free, right?

jdeppe says

1. K-12Teachers have 185 days off/year; University professors have more.

Whereas by your misleading way of counting, workers with two weeks vacation get 120 days off. That is 52 weekends, plus the 10 days vacation time, plus 6 or so holidays.

But some teacher work a lot on their weekends (grading and planning).
Nights too. And some take jobs in the summer too. Many good teachers would burn out without the time off. It's not a normal job.

Your choice of looking at say 55K as their yearly salary, with all that time off is a misleading way of framing it, for all these reasons.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Vicente, keep enjoying my 9.3% state income tax!

Y'all have some illusion that the UC systems hoovers up your state income taxes? I know, it's HARD looking things up instead of pulling them out of your ass.

I hear back in the 1970's that the state funding covered almost everything, and nobody paid tuition. Proposition 13 has gutted that, as intended. Those days are long gone. I mean I *wish* we enjoyed your state tax revenue but frankly California uses a lot of of it to build prisons and lock up potheads now.

At this point, you could eliminate state funding entirely and you know what? It would be painful but I don't think we'd even have to close that boondoggle in Merced. So take your "I'm a taxpayer genuflect before me BS" to some other window to complain.

Vicente says

I hear back in the 1970's that the state funding covered almost everything, and nobody paid tuition. Proposition 13 has gutted that, as intended.

The cut back was due to baby boomers leaving the education system. It was not
due to prop 13. Prop 13 was due to other issues.

Vicente says

I mean I *wish* we enjoyed your state tax revenue but frankly California uses a lot of of it to build prisons and lock up potheads now.

go out and buy up some more Lottery tickets... that will increase tax revenues.

thomaswong.1986 says

Vicente says

I hear back in the 1970's that the state funding covered almost everything, and nobody paid tuition. Proposition 13 has gutted that, as intended.

The cut back was due to baby boomers leaving the education system. It was not

due to prop 13. Prop 13 was due to other issues.

The boomers fucked everything up in this state...and country

doctor professor, thanks a lot for sharing your feelings about The California Taxpayer.

Can I quote you on that?

JH says

The boomers fucked everything up in this state...and country

really ? you mean the Boomers who created and worked in Silicon Valley.

... or do you mean the Lefties who came here from the Liberal East Coast.

PST... the UBER lefty Nancy Pelosi who came from Maryland..

thomaswong.1986 says

really ? you mean the Boomers who created and worked in Silicon Valley.

Silicon Valley worshippers think they are the ENGINE & BRAINS of the entire universe. They are entitled SOB's who view all things outside SV as a support base and source of servants. Like many doddering film stars past their prime, they still think they are 20 and everyone is hanging on their every word and funny story.

Definitely Boomer stereotype.

However technically the Baby Boomers were born 1946-1964. Here's the founders of Fairchild Semiconductor in 1957, any of these guys look pre-teen to you?

Vicente says

Silicon Valley worshippers think they are the ENGINE & BRAINS of the entire universe. They are entitled SOB's who view all things outside SV as a support base and source of servants. Like many doddering film stars past their prime, they still think they are 20 and everyone is hanging on their every word and funny story.

No we are not the brains.. you would not find such claims in decades past.. that is more akin to east coast thinking... they are arrogant enough to make such claims.

There are plenty of baby boomers who worked in the tech industry since the 50s.
Is that all you can point to the half dozen founders..

Vince.. what state did you migrate from.. and when ? ..
was it Georgia as you stated in your prior posts ?

What the fuck do you know about CA or Prop 13 .. why should the state be
spending on empty building and drop in student enrollment as the Baby Boomers
left the school system. Of course we cut spending why not ?

Only idiotic state workers wanted to keep spending when it was no longer needed.
I call that greedy and selfish.

Quigley says

There's barely any employee turnover where I work. People leave because they are retiring (with pensions), not because some CEO decided to "increase productivity" with layoffs and firings

Government job, I assume.

thomaswong.1986 says

that is more akin to east coast thinking...

Now wait a minute, that's my region you're talking about :-)

thomaswong.1986 says

What the fuck do you know about CA or Prop 13

All I need to know. Native Californians are blind to the pervasive perversion it causes throughout real estate. Prop 13 entitlement is like Trust Fund Babies, they are happy to reap the benefits and completely ignore the consequences. Say you inherit gramps' house and pay $1,000 in taxes and the guy buying next door NEW pays $10,000 a year in taxes well you just feel smug for "getting in early" when in fact you just won a birthright lottery. It's complete bullshit that Californians allow this "screw the newcomer" policy to continue to exist. I've seen the stultifying effect in rental properties, as long as you enjoy absurdly low taxes there is zero incentive to sell it you just rent it forever. So you end up with a "landed aristocracy" who hoover up rent and contribute little or nothing, and making no property improvements. And of course the same applies to commercial properties, so you create a "business aristocracy" e.g. Disney who pay pennies in property taxes and enjoy unfair advantages over newcomers.

Vicente says

Prop 13 entitlement is like Trust Fund Babies, they are happy to reap the benefits and completely ignore the consequences. Say you inherit gramps' house and pay $1,000 in taxes and the guy buying next door NEW pays $10,000 a year in taxes well you just feel smug for "getting in early" when in fact you just won a birthright lottery

Wrong ! Prop 58 did that, not prop 13....

http://assessor.lacounty.gov/extranet/guides/prop58.aspx

Vicente says

It's complete bullshit that Californians allow this "screw the newcomer" policy to continue to exist.

I bought in early 90s when prices were no different than 1975 adjusted for inflation. The idiots who came to CA since 2000 have been overpaying overbidding doubling and triple prior sales prices ... They deserve to get screwed since so many are greedy pushing prices higher. Try explaining normal decade over decade home prices to some idiot from NYC or Boston ?

Vicente says

And of course the same applies to commercial properties, so you create a "business aristocracy" e.g. Disney who pay pennies in property taxes and enjoy unfair advantages over newcomers.

More bullshit ... commercial and all industries pay real and personal property taxes on all the new improvements and business equipment on the land. Yes, they pay taxes on the new company autos/planes/boats, office equipment, lease improvements, furniture and fixtures and all other business related equipment. When was the last time home owners paid personal property tax on their appliances, furniture, and electronics?

Last manufacturing company I worked at had over $75Million of taxable assets basis across 50,000 sq ft. What do you think the annual property tax bill was like?

Vicente says

Native Californians are blind to the pervasive perversion it causes throughout
real estate. Prop 13 entitlement is like Trust Fund Babies, they are happy to
reap the benefits and completely ignore the consequences

While there may be excesses, it is better than the alternatives. Many midwest states have very high property taxes-the majority of which goes to the school district. In some places it exceeds 3% -making it very unaffordable for long time residents, the disabled and folks on a fixed income. The govt should have to tighten its belt and come up with new and innovative solutions and not just keep gouging the residents.

It is high time to take alook at public eduction and decide if we should go back to private eduction. Then you can choose to live where you want and send children to the school you want-and not chase after good school districts and pay a premium.

You can always get a government job, brain isn't required, and you'll get the kinds of perks and retirement benefits that are not available for most in the private sector... courtesy the hard working taxpayers.

thomaswong.1986 says

Wrong ! Prop 58 did that, not prop 13....

A quibble at best.

Prop 58 would not matter so much, if Prop. 13 didn't exist. Granny Grundy got low taxes for 30 years, then passed on and willed it to your parents, who got the benefit, and so on, and so on.

In my home state, sure they have exceptions on tax increases for seniors, disabled so on. But ONLY for those people during their lifetime. Healthy young family, sorry doesn't matter when you bought everyone's rates are the same. You live in a neighborhood it's become too expensive to pay the taxes all of a sudden? You sell the house for a fat profit because you probably live in some neighborhood that has become fashionable. The entire basis of Prop.13 is BS.