patrick.net

Call it Crazy says

See, if you add zeros to the numbers above, that’s our federal government, in particular Barack Obama, Treasury Secretary Lew, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

Your analysis is good up to the point where you blame the Democrats. The national debt problem and overspending started with Reagan -- remember him? -- who "proved deficits don't matter" as Dick Cheney said.

If you want to balance the budget and pay off the national debt, the very first thing you have to do is cut warfare spending by at least 90% and keep it there. I'd go 95% for the next decade and back up to 90% current levels.

Granted, warfare spending isn't the only thing that needs to be cut, but it is the largest and most urgently needed cut as warfare spending is not only large but also causes other problems and expenses. The peak cost of WWI was in the 1960s. Fuck yeah you just read that correctly. World War ONE costs were highest four decades after the war.

It turns out that the true cost of war isn't just what you spend during the war. The vast majority of the costs come from 80 years of spending on veteran benefits, particularly health care, after the war.

We haven't even reached Peak Spending for the Vietnam War!

VA Spending From Iraq, Afghanistan Wars To Rise For Decades

The Iraq war has cost the United States $1.7 trillion — in addition to catastrophic human, social and political losses — and that number could climb to more than $6 trillion over the next four decades, according to the Costs of War Project.

The argument that Social Security and Welfare are driving our nation bankrupt is utter bullshit when you consider the real costs of wars throughout the lifetime of the people who fight them. The unjust wars started by the Republicans, and yes continued by Obama, will cost the United States far more wealth and economic prosperity than all the social programs the Democrats have ever asked for put together.

It is utterly ridiculous how much money this country wastes on warfare. And yes, it is wasted. This gravy train for defense contractors, aka war profiteers, does not make us safer. In fact, the war profiteers have to make us far less safe so that we keep spending this obscene amount on weapons. The warfare industry harms national security in order to maximize profits. We would be safer with less spending on warfare.

Republicans aren't for small government. They love big government, as long as it's blowing up brown people instead of feeding them.

New Rule: No Republican gets to bitch about the national debt or the deficit or big government or big spending until that Republican has stated unequivocally that the warfare spending in this country must be reduced by at least 90%.

We should be spending what we did in the post-WWII peace time.

Call it Crazy says

Yep, that's the solution.... Just tax the producers MORE... That will solve
it!!!

smaulgld says

Yes but "more revenue" means more taxes

Yep, it is more taxes, and it is part of the solution. Capital gains taxes should be raised immediately, for example. Current deduction loopholes should be closed.

PS--Smaulgld, what did you unignore me just long enough to respond? That's pretty classless. Keeps all the debate off your threads, that's for sure. I guess you don't like actually discussing issues, but rather just promote traffic to your website.

Call it Crazy says

Sorry dude... wrong again...

http://patrick.net/about.php?user_ID=27600

I'm not ignoring anyone, but if I did, you would be on that list...

Sorry, I was referring to smaulgld. He's the scared one. (edited post to be clear)

I may disagree with you, but you don't censor my posts.

dodgerfanjohn says

freak80 says

Ceffer says

I can quickly reel off six upper middle class people who are not disabled and can work just fine that collect disability.

Dang, I need to get in on that racket. Can you show me how? ;-)

You need to speak to one of the people who work for the SRO's in downtown Los Angeles. They'll show you how to get state disability(not sure about social security disability though), how to get an SRO apartment(brand spanking new) for $50 a month, which kitchens are open when so you can get free food)even though you have $950 a mo disposible income), and oh yeah, they introduce you to whatever drug dealer is paying them a referal fee at the moment. You'll never want for anything!

Don't forget to hit up your soon-to-be former municipality for your free one way bus ticket!

Therefore the only way to keep money in the hands of consumers is for:

1. Government to give it to them outright. (food stamps, welfare, unemployment insurance)
2. Give it to them through government jobs.
3. Give it to them through war spending.

--------

What about

4. Working a job and cashing a paycheck

?

Call it Crazy says

They BOTH have issues with out of control spending, and NEITHER will do anything to stop it!!!

Don't confuse em with facts again ;)

CIC--

I think the point is that you started a thread about out of control government spending then blamed it on Dems:

Call it Crazy says

See, if you add zeros to the numbers above, that’s our federal government, in
particular Barack Obama, Treasury Secretary Lew, Nancy Pelosi and Harry
Reid.

If it's "both parties" as you now claim, why single out all the high ranking members of ONE party??

And, futher, the truth is that it's the members of the unmentioned party that are actually responsible for the out of control spending. I would think that would be worth a note--don't you?

Call it Crazy says

As usual.....

I didn't write the article in the OP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a pretty lame defense. I wouldn't think you'd be posting excerpts from articles you disagree with... Or if you do, I would expect that you'd comment on it.

Call it Crazy says

Didn't view the charts above, I see....

You guys with the Blue tinted glasses are really "blind"...

I viewed the charts. This may be earth shattering news to you, but the costs of bills passed during one Presidential term may actually hit during the next Presidential term. That's why I asked, specifically, which laws have passed during Obama's term that have increased spending. Let's get down to the nuts and bolts and figure out what's causing the out of control spending rather than just blindly complaining.

HydroCabron says

I assume you are referring to Austrian Economics. Why use that term, "Austrian"? Is there any other kind of economics?

Keynesian "economics" is not a branch of economics but rather academic justification for taxation, central banking and government intervention in the economy.

smaulgld says

HydroCabron says

I assume you are referring to Austrian Economics. Why use that term, "Austrian"? Is there any other kind of economics?

Keynesian "economics" is not a branch of economics but rather academic justification for taxation, central banking and government intervention in the economy.

Keynesian economics is due to a misspelling.

It is actually Kenyan economics, and came out of Nairobi.

The Republicans are the only thing protecting America from the special interests: the poor and the middle class.

RentingForHalfTheCost says

Nope. Only in the time of darkness will people open their eyes and start
fighting for a better life again. Life is too easy in this country and time for
everyone to wake up. I see it all day long. A depression is exactly what we need
to challenge us again. I'm ready, bring it on!

We just had an effing depression, what the heck are you talking about??

Life is too easy, but we need to wake up and make it better?

Homeboy says

O.K., I'll add a third voice, then. Dan's an asshole, but he happens to be
right this time. This is one hundred percent the republicans' doing.

Roughly 80% of Federal workers are still working.
http://www.businessinsider.com/government-shutdown-80-of-federal-employees-keep-working-2013-10

That means someone is making the POLITICAL decision to put up baricades around open air memorials. Someone in government even made the decision to priortize other government spending over paying out soldier death benefits to widows.

I understand that conventional wisdom and even the polls are putting most of the blame on the Republicans right now. Big shock since the media blames the GOP 24/7. But I think both the sequester and the shutdown are showing many more of us that:

#1 The US Federal government is so utterly incompetent that it can't even run an ice-cream stand (i.e. work within a budget and priortize cuts as needed).

#2 The US Federal government is filled with a bunch of venal union hacks that get off making life hard on us plebes when we demand accountability from them.

Throw on the IRS and NSA scandals that are not going away and I think the past few years is providing quite a bit of real-time ammunition supporting smaller government.

Seriously - can any Liberal point to any government program or actions in the last 5 years of Obama's presidency that gives you more faith in big centralized government?

Call it Crazy says

Sounds like echos of the duck.....

I suggest reading some recent polls. Something like 3/4 of all Americans blame the GOP for the shutdown and the overall approval rating of the GOP is down a full 10% in one month. So its funny that you seem intent on posting post after post trying to pin blame on the democrats when the public has already spoken, and in spectacular fashion proven you wrong without me even really needing to post this response.

Obama personally ordered those monuments closed. Indeed, he took the time to make this decision from the Oval Office. Because pissing off veterans and creating a photo opportunity for wingnut media - whose buck-toothed Pavlovian zombie Confederate-Flag-waving followers understand only cheap symbolism - is a shrewd winning strategy.

Still, Fox has stumbled a little here: accusations that Obama burned the flag and kicked a baby would fit better here, I think.

Bush creates, then maims/kills thousands of veterans, while cutting military pay and benefits --> BUSH HUGE PATRIOT

Random bureaucrat closes monuments on National Mall due to funding and security cuts --> OBAMA DARKIE TRAITOR

HydroCabron says

Obama personally ordered those monuments closed. Indeed, he took the time to
make this decision from the Oval Office. Because pissing off veterans and
creating a photo opportunity for wingnut media

Then your argument is that government is just incompetent and can't run an icecream stand?

Someone within the massive maw of our Federal bueracracy - they decided they needed to spend more labor to put up barricades to keep veterans away from THEIR MEMORIALS.

Someone within the government decided to cancel the Miramar airshow even though the airshow is a net profit for the City and Government.

Someone within the government decided paying widows the death benefits was less important than paying the other 80% of the Federal government that is still running.

Call it Crazy says

Funny, I don't see any "decline" in that chart.... Must be in 2013...

Did you notice the chart from ThreeBays? Sure looks like we have a revenue problem to me.

Someone within the massive maw of our Federal bueracracy - they decided they needed to spend more labor to put up barricades to keep veterans away from THEIR MEMORIALS.

Someone within the government decided to cancel the Miramar airshow even though the airshow is a net profit for the City and Government.

You seem angry at a lack of government services that you approve of. You actually believe that the government can do some things well?!

Are you a communist?

HydroCabron says

You seem angry at a lack of government services that you approve of.

Are you a communist?

I am angry at government incompetence and big government fan-boys (like you?) that never seem to want to hold our government accountable with the tax dollars we send them every year.

I am also angry that our government appears to be filled with a bunch of venal hacks who are only in the civil service to punch a time card and look after their benefits. And if the people dare criticize their incompetence, these guys shut down the parks and sick the IRS on us.

What's there to be angry about??

Call it Crazy says

Do you handle your finances at home the same way?? Just keep charging and spending even though you don't have the wages to cover it??

Nope. I'm a firm advocate for cutting military spending. But I also see the big picture that we also need to increase revenues.

You see, to continue your analogy, I wouldn't tell my boss to keep reducing my salary every year when I was already spending more than I made. It would make more sense to ask for a raise, wouldn't you agree?

Call it Crazy says

And if you didn't get that raise, would you continue to spend MORE then you take home??

Well, I sure as heck wouldn't tell my boss to reduce my salary. I'd probably start looking for another job that pays more.

New Renter says

Don't forget to hit up your soon-to-be former municipality for your free one way bus ticket!

You think the Village of Horseheads, NY would buy one for me? ;-)

Only a sad, sad man would put up barricades to 'close' 'open-air' monuments, huge sections of ocean, and small, privately owned businesses, alongside a national park. Deny veterans access one day, but allow illegals/La Raza, etal, to use the same areas the next day. (I guess every day is vote-buying day in "Obama-Land".....

What a small, petty man our president is...

This is heueuge - could be the final blow to the Obama dictatorship.

Everywhere I go, people are seething over the IRS scandal, Benghazi!, and the Long Form.

Once they are told by Roger Ailes to be angry about this, it's the end for Obama.

AverageBear says

Only a sad, sad man would put up barricades to 'close' 'open-air' monuments, huge sections of ocean, and small, privately owned businesses, alongside a national park. Deny veterans access one day, but allow illegals/La Raza, etal, to use the same areas the next day. (I guess every day is vote-buying day in "Obama-Land".....

What a small, petty man our president is...

+1

What harm could patriots carrying Confederate Flags possibly do during a staged GOP anger-generation event?

I am grateful to you for telling me I should be livid over this vague, mild symbolic outrage.

What else has Rush told you to seethe about lately?

socal2 says

HydroCabron says

You seem angry at a lack of government services that you approve of.

Are you a communist?

I am angry ...

I am also angry that ... venal hacks... their benefits... these guys shut down the parks and sick [sic] the IRS on us.

You do not mention Benghazi! in any of your rants.

Are you an abortionist?

Careful there, Comarade Obamakov. Not everyone understands sarcastic forms of humor.

[HydroCarbon was using a photo of Obama with a Stalin-like mustache on top at the time of the above writing]

ThreeBays says

Instead of partisan bickering, Congress should be focusing on policies to lift the long term economy, and dealing with long term cost problems including sustainable healthcare.

"There is no political ideology among decayed ruling elites, despite choreographed debates and elaborate political theater. It is, as it always is at the end, one vast kleptocracy." Chris Hedges 10/14/13

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_folly_of_empire_20131014

Robert Sproul says

ThreeBays says

Instead of partisan bickering, Congress should be focusing on policies to lift the long term economy, and dealing with long term cost problems including sustainable healthcare.

"There is no political ideology among decayed ruling elites, despite choreographed debates and elaborate political theater. It is, as it always is at the end, one vast kleptocracy." Chris Hedges 10/14/13

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_folly_of_empire_20131014

Yep.

Call it Crazy says

Dan, you need to read the WHOLE thread before posting... Besides, going off on a particular piece of the spending, you're missing the point of the OP.

I did. My point stands.

The warfare spending is the very first thing that must go. At least we get something out of Social Security, Medicare, and welfare. Eliminating all those immediately would have devastating effects on people's lives and would cause a massive increase in crime as people had to rob to survive. Those things can only be reduced gradually.

Warfare spending, on the other hand, gives us absolutely nothing. In fact it is counter-productive. The massive amounts of warfare spending makes less safe because it creates a strong financial incentive for increase conflict, failures in security, and dangers.

So I stand by my statement. Warfare spending is the very first thing that must go. Then we can talk about the next biggest waste. But as long as Republicans refuse to cut warfare spending and end the defense contract welfare queen's gravy train, there is no point in talking about cutting anything else because whatever we cut will simply be reallocated to the warfare industry.

ThreeBays says

Lower revenues due to a recession are temporary.

You are assuming that this isn't the new normal.

Dan8267 says

A can think of thousands of large-scale projects that should be done if you want stimulus spending, projects that are far more productive than warfare.

A can think of thousands of large-scale projects that should be done if you want stimulus spending, projects that are far more productive than welfare.

Bush's fault. No patnet libs will utter a word about this. It looked like an Obama - Trevon ralley.

Every transaction is recorded so there shouldn't be a problem to claw back every cent.

Yes--God forbid some poor people were able to get slightly more food than they were allowed to get. That is just awful.

I agree--let them starve.

Call it Crazy says

tatupu70 says

Call it Crazy says

Funny, I don't see any "decline" in that chart.... Must be in 2013...

Did you notice the chart from ThreeBays? Sure looks like we have a revenue problem to me.

So your answer is to just keep spending like drunken sailors, right, even though revenues are down??

Do you handle your finances at home the same way?? Just keep charging and spending even though you don't have the wages to cover it??

Isn't it more accurate to say that the householder has decided for whatever reasons not to access all the available income streams to them and instead run up the difference on their credit card? The point wasn't simply that revenues were down, it was that they were down as a % of GDP and could (and should) therefore be raised to tackle the issue. That wouldn't mean excessive taxation rates. If you as a householder had access to substantial additional revenue that you used to access, wouldn't you simply start using it again? Better that than continuing to increase your credit card bill.

Call it Crazy says

Bap33 says

No patnet libs will utter a word about this.

That's the sad part... Perfectly acceptable by them. Even tatupu thinks so...

Stealing is stealing, but you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time focusing on this type of thing whilst turning a blind eye to what the opposite end of the scale is up to.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

No, in fact, it is really exactly like The Island of Dr. Moreau!

Ted Cruz has to get the analogy right if he is going to successfully sway America to default and hurl the world into irreparable financial cataclysm and cannibal anarchy.

I hope for your prepared and ready good that you will get some rumbling and score some face, but my gut feeling tells me that the default (should it happen) will not be all that dramatic and life will go on. What else can be done to derail the system towards cannibal anarchy?

mell says

I hope for your prepared and ready good that you will get some rumbling and score some face

English words using sense not much very make.