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I love talking about wealth distribution!
I am in totally in favor of wealth distribution. The government should use force to redistribute wealth.
I heart wealth distribution!
I know you do, but the majority of Americans (those that pay taxes, follow the law, and are in fact, legal residents) DON'T like wealth redistribution. In fact, I can honestly say that over 99.80% of tax payers in Massachusetts DON'T like wealth redistribution. How do know? Because whens state taxes are due, you have the option of paying the former/higher tax rate. All's you gotta do, is check a box. A simple way for doing your share of 'wealth redistribution'. But guess what? Less than 1% of Mass Tax payers that actually owe taxes don't check that little box.... .And is it any surprise that Obama would never call his shifty little heathcare act 'wealth redistribution', because then it wouldn't be the fine law that it is today (insert sarcasm)....
Nobody ever said that Obamacare was going to be totally free.
Actually a couple aged 60 making $40,000 a year can get the "Bronze" level coverage for $2/mo !
Kaiser subsidy calculator link shows $16,000 premium subsidy (!)
So ObamaCare is free to poor people. The middle and upper classes get the shaft with it, kinda, in that they don't get the goodies the poor do.
Those "lucky duckies"!
I hope you actually believe that because few if anyone else does. Obama is about 2,000% better, more intelligent, articulate, and accomplished than his predecessor by far. People seem to forget how people would cringe when Bush got up on the podium and stuttered and stumbled around on the mike- even with his teleprompters.
Fiscally, I'm not a fan of Bush, so make fun of him all you want. But I'd take a president who's less comfortable around a camera, over a president who lied to me 3 years ago, KNOWING that what he's saying is all lies. "Get to keep your doctor", "Get to keep your health insurance policy"... HA!
Instead they decided to build a web site, collect your information and then match you up (by mandate) with a PRIVATE company. I don't see any reason for it to have been done this way.
Only because idiot red states opted out of their state-level implementation.
coveredca.com ftw.
Obama couldn't win here with any reforms.
Medicare-for-all was "gov't death panels!" according to you right-wing morons.
PPACA's mandate is "forced commerce with evil private corporations!" according to you clowns.
UK-style NHS (healthcare run like public safety services) is of course communism to you guys.
Your guys idea of healthcare is "got mine fuck you".
That applies for absolutely everything in the conservative ideological playbook.
Obamacare is wealth re-distribution, pure and simple.
Burns, doesn't it?
No, I actually enjoy enlightening those that are ignorant of this fact.
over a president who lied to me 3 years ago, KNOWING that what he's saying is all lies. "Get to keep your doctor", "Get to keep your health insurance policy"... HA!
I'm not sure how to make this any more clear to you: The only thing that has happened here is a minor technicality: Yes- some people are going to lose their current plan. But this is because the plans they have don't meet the bare minimum requirements for coverage. So in other words- the plans they're on SUCK. So now they can start a new plan and KEEP the same damned doctor. You can keep on trying to turn this into something that is isn't, but the truth has a way of settling things in the end. I realize that the RR media has been bellowing this horse shit all week because you know- they've gotta' find some half-lie to please their ever-anti-liberal listeners.
Oh- and you seem to make this big deal over what you perceive as a Lie ( which I've already disapproved) But if lieing is such a big deal to you then WTF? Bush Lied MANY times. I would also be willing to bet that if it were Bush that had come up the ACA, every single right winger would be all over it, championing it as a marvelous piece of legislation, and so on- not because its a healthcare plan but because the idea was THEIR'S and not the Liberals. That is really what this all boils down to. Obama could have come up with a plan that caused rain clouds to dump gold coins on every city and conservatives would probably call it communism, or whatever other bullshit they regurgitate.
But then you seem to conveniently forget that those losing their current plan will then be able to sign up for a BETTER plan at the same cost
HHAHAAAHAAA!!!! Please don't tell me you are serious.... Oh, that's a funny one. Thanks, I needed that....
HHAHAAAHAAA!!!! Please don't tell me you are serious.... Oh, that's a funny one. Thanks, I needed that....
I didn't create the law. That is the law. If you lack understanding of how that works then its not my responsibility to inform you because I'm guessing you wouldn't care anyway.
wealth redistribution, taking from the rich
When you say 'rich', if 'rich' = 'paying taxes', then you'd be correct.
wealth redistribution, taking from the rich
When you say 'rich', if 'rich' = 'paying taxes', then you'd be correct.
How do you sleep at night, knowing that oligarch cash might be going to cure somebody's illness instead of buying weapons?
So fuck you and your idiotic ideology. The past way of doing things was broken and "ObamaCare", for all its imperfections, is a step towards progress.
No thanks to you a-holes.
Awwwww, c'mon Bill. Don't go away mad. What's the matter? You democrats rammed this into law, w/ ZERO help/input from the GOP. You did anything and everything to make this happen, and refused suggestions/prodding/filibusters/threats of the GOP, and, holy of holies, NOW you blame the GOP for the abortion we call Obamacare?
Obama and Democrats OWN THIS. And now you have CBS, and the other water-carrying MSM (finally) turning on Obama, and reporting the truth about this disaster.
I think it would be best to redirect your sweet-nothings and affection to your dear leader, Pelosi, etal... Because that's where it belongs.
Don't believe me on the media finally turning on Obamacare? We only have scratched the surface when Mother Jones even says Dem incumbents are in trouble......
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/10/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-big-trouble
I like the idea of a government website where I can shop and price compare, but it's poorly implemented. Whole idea needs work.
The people in charge of the rollout have taken the blame and so has the President. What else do you want them to do?
Be fired or quit in disgrace.
That's stupid.
People who screw up that badly should be fired. Of course since it's a government job, they aren't. Don't you take issue with that?
Wealth redistribution and entitlements only work when most of society contributes sufficiently into the communist system. Anybody have data as to whether the US is a good candidate for that?
I'm sure this has been posted alredy by now. But only six(!) signed up for Obamacare the first day??!! From what I read, over 4 million visits, but only 6 signed up?
That's a lie. You're talking about only the federal site. That is for the whiny red states whose leaders decided it was more important to sabotage healthcare than to serve their constituents, so they refused to set up state exchanges. You cannot say "only 6 people signed up for Obamacare the first day" because a whole lot of people ALSO signed up in their own states which have their own exchanges.
Obamacare is wealth re-distribution, pure and simple.
Absolutely. But unlike all the other wealth-transfer schemes: QE, TARP, Fed discount window, bailouts, low capital gains rate, etc. - this one actually transfers the wealth in the right direction, to people who actually need help.
AB said: Obamacare is wealth re-distribution, pure and simple.
I don't think you'd like the other alternatives for wealth redistribution as they tend to be violent and ugly.
Let's break it down. The Top 20 percent control almost 90% of the wealth in the US. Here's what the Top 20 look like:
Top 20 Percent mean income: $226,200
Top 20 Percent mean net worth: $2,061,600
I'm not big on redistribution, but as those types of schemes go, ACA seems better than most. Meanwhile, the Top 20 continue to Hoover up the wealth while the bottom 80 percent are left with crumbs.
http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
See, this is the weath-distribution thing you don't want to talk about.
I love talking about wealth distribution!
I am in totally in favor of wealth distribution. The government should use force to redistribute wealth.
I heart wealth distribution!
The problem with advocating and endorsing the use of force to satisfy the will of the people, it may one day turn on you
You democrats rammed this into law, w/ ZERO help/input from the GOP. You did anything and everything to make this happen, and refused suggestions/prodding/filibusters/threats of the GOP, and, holy of holies, NOW you blame the GOP for the abortion we call Obamacare?
Bullshit. The republicans have absolutely ZERO ideas. They were busy saying "We already have the best healthcare system in the world". Their big "idea" was to do nothing and leave the system broken.
Instead they decided to build a web site, collect your information and then match you up (by mandate) with a PRIVATE company. I don't see any reason for it to have been done this way.
Only because idiot red states opted out of their state-level implementation.
coveredca.com ftw.
Obama couldn't win here with any reforms.
Medicare-for-all was "gov't death panels!" according to you right-wing morons.
PPACA's mandate is "forced commerce with evil private corporations!" according to you clowns.
UK-style NHS (healthcare run like public safety services) is of course communism to you guys.
Your guys idea of healthcare is "got mine fuck you".
That applies for absolutely everything in the conservative ideological playbook.
Whatever the reason, it still a big disaster. The name calling, "clowns" "got mine FU" make no sense. The criticism of O care is 100% valid it doesnt go away by attacking those criticizing it.
Wealth redistribution and entitlements only work when most of society contributes sufficiently into the communist system. Anybody have data as to whether the US is a good candidate for that?
The problem with advocating and endorsing the use of force to satisfy the will of the people, it may one day turn on you
Wealth redistribution happens constantly, every day. We could not have a society without wealth redistribution.
If you don't own a car you are paying for roads that you don't use.
If you use public transportation, others are helping to pay your fare.
If you've never had a fire at your home, you're paying for the fire department.
If you have kids, people without kids are paying for their education.
A society without any wealth redistribution may be a Libertarian's wet dream, but it isn't possible.
Bullshit. The republicans have absolutely ZERO ideas. They were busy saying "We already have the best healthcare system in the world". Their big "idea" was to do nothing and leave the system broken.
That's mostly true. But ruining it didn't help at all. Dems should have held for single payer- but once Kucinich caved it was over
That's mostly true. But ruining it didn't help at all. Dems should have held for single payer- but once Kucinich caved it was over
Now we agree. I think where we disagree is that I believe, even with the federal website glitches, that we are better off than we were with the completely broken system we had before. A website can be fixed. Going back to the broken system we had before could NOT be fixed.
A website can be fixed. Going back to the broken system we had before could NOT
be fixed.
I view Obamacare as a bridge to single payer NHC. If we go back from it now - we will never get another chance. The market would have sorted it out - but with the legal barriers in place - AMA, Insurance, etc... the market correction would have been rough on public health.
I think where we disagree is that I believe, even with the federal website glitches, that we are better off than we were with the completely broken system we had before. A website can be fixed. Going back to the broken system we had before could NOT be fixed.
It's not just the website it goes to not thinking the whole thing through, it only starts with the website.
Nancy P said it all when she said we have to pass the bill to find out what is in it.
Congress didn't read it or write it
Congress didn't read it or write it
Congress doesn't read or write anything it passes.
That is essentially correct, albeit ridiculously over-dramatic. We get insurance from mostly for-profit companies, who are regulated by the states, who in turn are regulated by the federal ACA law.
If you're even the slightest bit honest with yourself, you have to acknowledge that the free market insurance system we had DID NOT WORK. We had double-digit annual increases in premiums, millions of people who were denied insurance altogether, medical bills being the number one cause of bankruptcy, and poor people who had to clog up the ERs because they couldn't get primary care. What kind of idiot thinks we were better off with THAT?
I haven't seen a single alternative suggestion from a right-winger that wasn't patently ridiculous. Some of the gems I've seen here are:
I'll just go to India if I get sick.
We should stop licensing doctors.
We should just have an all cash system.
None of these are realistic, and all of them would result in a much, much worse mess than anything ACA could cause.
If we don't have government regulation (or government "putting a gun to the insurance companies' heads" as you like to imagine it), then what exactly is your fantastic, no-government-involvement idea?
(this ought to be good...)
Nancy P said it all when she said we have to pass the bill to find out what is in it.
if you weren't a total idiot you'd know that what she meant by that was that the House wasn't calling the shots, what PPACA would end up as would be determined by what the Senate could pass.
But asking conservatives to not be total idiots is a lost cause at this point. You guys have the functional intelligence of used bubble gum.
Dems should have held for single payer- but once Kucinich caved it was over
LOL. Your scenario of brave Dems would just be a repeat of 1993, no reforms for another 20 years.
Nancy P said it all when she said we have to pass the bill to find out what is in it.
Enough with the pithy sound-bites. You know perfectly well that wasn't what she meant. One democrat misspeaks and then we have to get blasted with it every day for 3 years. Jesus Christ, aren't you able to form your own argument?
zzyzzx
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CP/
time to up some taxes on the 1%, right?
right?
it still a big disaster
No it's not. PPACA coverage doesn't even kick in for 2 months, and the drop-dead deadline to apply for Jan 1 coverage is still 6 weeks away.
There's no disaster here, just bullshit from conservatives, the same bullshit we've been treated to for 5+ years, 10 if you count Iraq, 20 if you count the Gingrich takeover, and 30 if you count the Reagan Revolution of bullshit.
The problem with advocating and endorsing the use of force to satisfy the will of the people, it may one day turn on you
A people get the government they deserve.
"Good and hard" as the man said.
Let's not pretend that private interests, unchecked by small-d democratic power centers, is any bed of roses either.
Cute. Except for the fact that most right-wing voters live in the reddest states, which have some of the poorest residents, and high numbers of those residents using social services, which in turn are heavily subsidized by some of the other, more economically successful states like California and New York for example.
So the irony here is that the regions that have the most people bitching about social services also use the most of those services, and use money from other and typically more liberal states.
People who screw up that badly should be fired. Of course since it's a government job, they aren't. Don't you take issue with that?
The previous administration effed up about 20X's worse... in fact, the entire previous administration itself was one giant mistake. Somehow they all kept their jobs.
Nancy P said it all when she said we have to pass the bill to find out what is in it.
if you weren't a total idiot you'd know that what she meant by that was that the House wasn't calling the shots, what PPACA would end up as would be determined by what the Senate could pass.
But asking conservatives to not be total idiots is a lost cause at this point. You guys have the functional intelligence of used bubble gum.
another nice comment- ignore
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57610328/obamacare-enrollments-got-off-to-very-slow-start-documents-show/
I'm sure this has been posted alredy by now. But only six(!) signed up for Obamacare the first day??!! From what I read, over 4 million visits, but only 6 signed up?
I liken this scenario to a big fat highway, w/ 4 million cars slowing down to check out the 6 car accident on the side of the road, only to keep driving away/getting away from the gory fiasco.
And this shit show is only getting started...
- You want to put your identity, SS#, VITAL information into the hands of former-ACORN layabouts, ie, fresh-minted 'stewards' to these healthcare exchanges? I'll pass, thank you.
- Then once we get past this gaping hole of security, we get to grapple w/ the fact that there's more security problems ahead, when this site is hacked repeatedly, once your data lands 'somewhere'.
- Wait till the uneducated (or the naive liberals/independent voters; same thing) find out that Obamacare is a financial house of cards, that will collapse under its own weight. Tons of people 'signing up' for healthcare, that will be free, but a trickle of tax-paying people signing up, willing to get reamed in the digital age by the gov't....
- Obamacare is wealth re-distribution, pure and simple. Obama doesn't give a fuck about you, the health care he took away from you, or the higher bills you, the tax-payer, will have to pay. He lied to you 3 years ago, KNOWING you'd lose your health care. That's all you need to know.
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