patrick.net

Call it Crazy says

Credit card companies, which attract new customers with zero percent teaser rates and more rewards, have raised rates while their costs remain historically low, industry observers say.

I get them all the time.
I'll use one pay it off in 18 months, but by then another company sends me another 0percent offer, so I've never ever, had to actually use one after the 0% introductory teaser rate expires.

Which truth be told, if it wasn't 0% we would never use put anywhere near what we put on it, or use it for the things we purchase with them.

In fact, I've always been against them, but my wife is the manager, comptroller, accountant, and she's the one that recommends I use this card or that card, when I buy things like new computers, or other electronics.

BUT you really need to be careful, and for reasons these bank cheerleader fluff pieces never mention.

One stern word of advice though, well two actually.

1) You better pay the damn thing off before that 0% introductory period ends. It's not because you'll be stuck paying that higher percent interest, but because you'll be stuck by the micro writing in the agreement, and their abusive unaccountable twisted logic accounting, that you agreed to.

2) Don't use ANY CARD drawn by that same back during that period. NONE!!!! If you're using a Best Buy buy now, and no interest for 18 or 24 months, on Citi bank.

Then do not use any other Citi Bank cards that you have, also do NOT buy another product at Best Buy until you've fully paid of the first item.

Trust me on this, or 19 months later when you think it was all paid, you'll be hit hundreds of dollars($400ish) on a $1200 purchase.

When you call up, the lady on the other side, will keep trying to confuse you, to justify charging you full interest of those 18months on that $1200 purchase, by keep referencing "Other Promotions".

What promotion, lady, I just used the card, I get two separate bills for those Citi bank bills, one is from Best Buy and the other is a regular Citi bank card. I don't get two best buy bills for each purchase.

Also if you use you Store credit card after your initial purchase say some months later, then use it again. The bank will bill you separately so that you will think they are separate. Pay off the first one in full, but have that $79 hard drive on the other, that you didn't pay off yet. Then you'll get that hefty bill after the 18 months expired.

I had to spend hours on the phone with Citi and Best Buy to work that abuse out. After hours of getting no where, I asked for Best Buy senior account manager, then asked her to look at our Best buy purchasing history, (From that rewards points card, not the credit card) my Wife will use a coupon or a rewards card to buy anything. I hate them because I don't like my purchases being tracked. But thanks to my Wife's miser ways, I was able to convince that person, that almost every electroic device our house hold has bought for the last 20 years has come from Best Buy, and I will be taking it to HHGregg, so they finally reversed that $400.

My take away, is 0% Credit cards are trickier, than regular worded Credit cards. And with new CFPB rules, they can do what ever they want, just as long as it's written in their rules. Even if those rules leaves a lot to be assumed by the consumer, who will be dead wrong if they take those agreements by face value.

Oh and get this, another account representative called up to collect the $400 again a few weeks later. Because it seems that that last person that claimed they took care of it, left .38 cents on the balance. Boy did I go ballistic, it didn't take as long to work it out. I just informed him, that I recorded my last phone call, and my next call would be to the CFPB.

Which that stopped him in his tracks. Like I said, they are free to do what ever they want, just as long they don't agree to something. Then that's where they can get in serious trouble.

No now I remember how they confused the two introductory purchases at different times.

In December of last year, we knew the introductory period was expiring in January on a Laptop I bought my wife last year.
So my Wife and I called up, and asked for a settlement to pay off the Best Buy card in full.

They told us $650. We paid it and thought that was that. Then in February we THEN got that bill with the $400 interest on it. That's when we called livid, because we just called and settled a few months before.
Well that's when the lady started getting Cute with "This promotion" and "That promotion". So when we called to settle up, the first lady on picked on promotion, and intentionally left the other behind. Because there is no language in any of CFPB legislation that prevents that kind of dishonest behavior.

This is sill on top of them calling us back again for interest left on that .38 what I thought was the second and final settlement.

On second thought, I think I'll go back to cash only for all of my purchases.

zzyzzx says

What moron doesn't pay off their balance every month???

Those that can't afford to,,?

Why do you assume they are morons?

I have not paid a single cent of interest in my life to credit card companies. Pay off balance in full every month. Get 1% back in cash outs when I choose to do that. Unfortunately even with all that, I feel that merchants raise prices because the fact that people are willing to use credit cards artificially increases the affordability matrix of customers. I believe that for example if restaurants would not accept credit cards that going out to eat would be at least 20% cheaper. So even if someone pays off their balance in full every month, there are still certain unavoidable costs that are baked into the price. The ultimate problem is the id-oriented hedonistic "customer" who is either unwilling to accept the reality of what they can/cannot afford or is unwilling to delay gratification.

That's private insurance for you.

Gotta love those $5000 deductibles. They're laughing all the way to the bank, a big subsidy for minimal service.

Theodor Hertzl actually loathed the idea of putting Israel in Palestine.

He griped about the heat, filth, and lack of good Bavarian Beer when he visited Jerusalem. He wanted somewhere in Europe, or at least South America.

Nor was Hertzl the architect of the Arab Transfer policy, he was long since gone.

Homeboy says

What do they call people who practice "self healthcare"?

What do they call the state licensees that "practice" "medicine"?
Wrong…..half the fucking time.
http://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2013/07/26/mayo-clinic-146-common-practices-we-should-reconsider

I think Rush is an absolute moron with no self control - what kind of dumbass manages to get fired from espn nfl gameday show 1 week in because they lack elementary level of self control to not make QB performance a racial issue?

errc says

Why do you assume they are morons?

Because they are voluntarily paying extra on every purchase they make with their cards.

For the longest time I didn't use credit cards.

I was using a debit card instead, and cash when possible.

Now I have a credit card because I figure at some point I will need a credit score. I have automatic payment at the end of the month. And a credit card with automatic payment is not like a debit card because... you know, character matters.

Credit scores are clearly not a reflection of your capacity to pay. (otherwise for example not having had any debt should give me a perfect credit score, and revenues would be considered).
Credit scores are clearly used to herd the public into certain behaviors. They make sure you do borrow some money even if you don't need to.

People who use credit cards for the cash-back ignore that they pay extra for the privilege. Granted they would pay it anyway in most cases, but if most people were refusing to use credit cards because of this, you probably wouldn't have to pay.
How much is 2% of every dollar spent in America? Isn't that a lot for plastic cards?

Even with automatic payments, I still have to deal with annual fees and the like.
And this is still condoning a business model that is highly immoral as described in the original post.

I plan to close this card account in a few years.

Old practitioner's adage: "Always prescribe a new drug during its first two years on the market, while it still works."

Just wait until the last SSRI patent expires and some "new and improved" placebo gets patented, the PhRMA-paid medical journals will gush with how great they are compared to those old and lousy SSRIs. Even Homefool might acknowledge it then.

Its not like this really matters anyway. As pointed out in the article and as we all know, practically the entire AM dial is SATURATED with right-winger loudmouths and their entirely formulaic shows. These shows differ little from each other: Just start talking about a topic- any topic- and blame it all on "Liberals" and whatnot. And if not AM, well the most popular Cable news network is also right leaning.

The notion that the media is liberal is just another bullshit thing these right wing talk show hosts say as a catch phrase.

So even if Rush retires, there's a zillion other guys just like him eager to step up and do perhaps one of the easiest jobs ever.

Call it Crazy says

“Yeah, I sign it. I got it. But where’s my doctor?

Sue them for breach of contract.

thunderlips11 says

That's private insurance for you.

Gotta love those $5000 deductibles. They're laughing all the way to the bank, a big subsidy for minimal service.

You are welcome to purchase insurance with minimal or no deductibles. But you'll have to pay for it. It's called risk management.

curious2 says

I really don't understand what you are trying to say with that comment?

From the article but not quoted in OP:

More than 3 million Californians are newly insured. At the same time, a third of our primary care doctors are set to retire.

This is a systemic problem much bigger than the assholes in Washington, and it's been going on for years.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/16/lots-of-new-patients-too-few-doctors/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/07/why-is-it-so-difficult-to-get-an-appointment-with-your-doctor.html

http://www.nationaljournal.com/health-care/it-s-hard-to-see-your-doctor-is-that-obamacare-s-fault-20140124

zzyzzx says

errc says

Why do you assume they are morons?

Because they are voluntarily paying extra on every purchase they make with their cards.

To the tune of 21% or more. It is moronic.

JH says

curious2 says

I really don't understand what you are trying to say with that comment?

From the article but not quoted in OP

Thanks, I appreciate the clarification, and I was already aware of those problems. What I didn't understand was the other part of your comment, which seemed a distraction.

Heraclitusstudent says

Sue them for breach of contract.

LOL - in California, the exchange website requires you to waive your right to sue. You can arbitrate, but the industry hires the arbitrator. And, have you actually read those insurance contracts? They run more than 100 pages, mostly loopholes for the insurer. Good luck with your suit.

Call it Crazy says

Why Are You Charging On Credit Cards Again?

If managed carefully, the rewards are great. Why pay cash when I can get 50k bonus miles for spending money I was already going to spend, cancel the card, and get a new one in 18 months. Cycle through the different cards (get the bonus, then cancel), and every penny I ever spend is earning me bonus rewards (i.e., beyond the standard 1% rewards).

curious2 says

What I didn't understand was the other part of your comment, which seemed a distraction.

hahaha, well, i'm sick of certain health care issues being blamed suddenly on aca, when in reality the problems are much deeper. I am for 100% socialist or 100% free market health care. We are in a slimy middle ground, and the aca only secured that position.

My second comment...well...it was a distraction...but not the first patnet distraction you've ever read i'm sure...yes, meaningless to an intelligent discussion of course...just frustration stemming from the first part of my comment.

JH says

i'm sick of certain health care issues being blamed suddenly

I feel your pain, but from the opposite direction: I'm sick of holier than thou Democrats saying "the real reason you disapprove of Obamneycare is because you're racist and Obama's black." Actually, most of the lobbyists who wrote it are white, and it was based on Romneycare, and Romney is also white, and touted relentlessly by Jonathan Gruber (also white) who took undisclosed payments from the White House in connection with his supposed expert testimony, and btw Obama's mother was also white, but somehow certain people insist it's all about there being a black President, as if Clintoncare didn't get the same reaction in 1994. Clinton was actually impeached in his first term, though for other reasons; nothing like that happened to Obama.

JH says

I am for 100% socialist or 100% free market health care. We are in a slimy middle ground, and the aca only secured that position.

Yes, what we have is called lemon socialism, privatizing gains while socializing losses, but anybody who dares say out loud the word "socialism" sets off an inflammatory reaction among partisan boosters of the legislation. To quote Yogi Berra (out of context), "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." We could have either a free market or a socialized system, but instead we have schizophrenic lemon socialism, because that maximizes power (including revenue) for the authors of the legislation.

Lots of people and corporations lease land but they are not abused by the Feds because even lessors have property rights.

Interesting in the recent past people who stole cattle were hanged. Today the Feds think they can steal cattle because they're from the government.

The photo montage above it great.

WOW! The UNtrustworthy are certainly in control of what information is apparent to the people!

Say hey! This was in the Wall Street Journal on March 30, 1999. Note "... how much it will buy."

Holy cow/interesting/compelling ...!

And where is it up to date??? Right here ... see the first chart shown in this thread.
Recent Dow day is Monday, April 21, 2014 __ Level is 104.0

WOW! It is hideous that this is hidden! Is there any such "Homes, Inflation Adjusted"? Yes! This was in the New York Times on August 27, 2006:

And up to date (by me) is here:
http://patrick.net/?p=1219038&c=999083#comment-999083

WOW! The UNtrustworthy are certainly in control of what information is apparent to the people!

And "ThePublic Be Suckered"
http://patrick.net/?p=1230886

JH says

You are welcome to purchase insurance with minimal or no deductibles. But you'll have to pay for it. It's called risk management.

Let 'em eat risk management cake.
"We have the functional products that you desperately need……you just can't afford it, sucker."

JH says

i'm sick of certain health care issues being blamed suddenly on aca

ACA was the chance to fix some of these "issues", the only one that has come along in my lifetime. There is a kind of nauseating disappointment at the simulacrum of reform that was fobbed off on us.
ACA is to Health Care Reform as TPP is to Free Trade. Codifying and enshrining corporate control and cartel profits.

JH says

thunderlips11 says

That's private insurance for you.

Gotta love those $5000 deductibles. They're laughing all the way to the bank, a big subsidy for minimal service.

You are welcome to purchase insurance with minimal or no deductibles. But you'll have to pay for it. It's called risk management.

Lolol.

Please explain to me how you have the nerve to refer to what some confuse as "private" "health" "insurance", as risk management.

Call it Crazy says

Something similar, if we have to make a large purchase, we'll cycle it through zero percent offers and use "other people's money" for the year while gaining the card points and bonus points...

The points are nice, it's been a while since I've actually had to pay for an airline ticket...

This is exactly the kind of mentality that allowed the housing bubble, and allows credit card companies to skim billions from the economy.

Call it Crazy says

Credit/debit cards will NEVER go away...

I'm not saying they will go away. I'm saying there is not enough competition to really bring down the cost to what it actually costs to manage plastic cards transactions.

Maybe if you can pay with your phone tomorrow we will see progress.

Do PCPs even "Coordinate Care" or make hospital Visits anymore? It sure seems the newly minted ones don't.

Get your ass in and out in less than 12 minutes, "You got a cough? Here's some antibiotics. Uh huh, yeah, right. Blood? Well, make another appointment if it continues. Uh-huh, Get the fuck out."

zzyzzx says

errc says

Why do you assume they are morons?

Because they are voluntarily paying extra on every purchase they make with their cards.

Not if they are taking the borrowed money, and investing it at greater returns.

errc says

zzyzzx says

errc says

Why do you assume they are morons?

Because they are voluntarily paying extra on every purchase they make with their cards.

Not if they are taking the borrowed money, and investing it at greater returns.

Lol, credit cards annual interest rates on average are double the stock market performance. That strategy is a sure path to eventual bankruptcy.

carrieon says

The American Healthcare system is a joke and sinking. If you have any regard for your health or finances, just avoid insurance and spend your hard-earned money on education about self-healthcare.

That only works if you can afford six or seven figures worth of care for a major injury or illness.

Obligatory Bundy family picture:

Here's a true scenario:
Joe has $5,000. He puts it in Bank.
Bank offers Joe a Bank credit card with a $5,000 credit limit.
Joe uses the Bank credit card, and gets charged 21% interest to use the money he put into Bank.
What Joe does from here determines if he is an idiot or not.

Tim,

Nice find. Since Feb 2009 till June 2013, I have helped my family, some siblings and pkennedy (a Patnet user that I connected with on this site) gaining over $3.5M in equity and cashflow. Wife and I tallied up this number a couple of nights ago so it's fresh off the mill.

Pkennedy has gained just shy of $400k in equity and cashflow since we teamed up in late 2011. We're currently controlling over $2M worth of real estate now with over $1M in equity. Patrick himself and several Patnet members have met and know my partner Pkennedy. They also exchanged emails off-line with my partner so they can confirm this without an issue. Unlike some bullshitters and trolls on here who do nothing but a disservice to the Patnet community.

If you post something positive, they say you're bragging. I guess they only like negative news around here. Well, Pkennedy and I are planning on cashing out in 2016. That should be some nice chunk of change. Bulls make money; bears make money; perma-bears don't make shit.

Quigley says

Here's a true scenario:

Joe has $5,000. He puts it in Bank.

Bank offers Joe a Bank credit card with a $5,000 credit limit.

Joe uses the Bank credit card, and gets charged 21% interest to use the money he put into Bank.

What Joe does from here determines if he is an idiot or not.

If Joe put his $5,000 in a 5 year CD we already know he is an idiot, unless he pays off the balance every month from his paycheck.

Call it Crazy says

dublin hillz says

errc says

zzyzzx says

errc says

Why do you assume they are morons?

Because they are voluntarily paying extra on every purchase they make with their cards.

Not if they are taking the borrowed money, and investing it at greater returns.

Lol, credit cards annual interest rates on average are double the stock market performance. That strategy is a sure path to eventual bankruptcy.

Even worse than double..

All those paying off their balances each month and enjoying the rewards must remember the rewards are really being paid by those paying high interest rates on their balances. No wonder banks have to charge such high interest rates.

curious2 says

I feel your pain, but from the opposite direction: I'm sick of

There is a lot of racism among Republicans. I have lived in more racist states than I do now and it is nauseating how much it permeates thinking among all socioeconomic classes. It sounds like you have other reasons to be against aca, as do I, so I respect that.

curious2 says

schizophrenic lemon socialism, because that maximizes power (including revenue) for the authors of the legislation

...sadly...

errc says

Please explain to me how you have the nerve to refer to what some confuse as "private" "health" "insurance", as risk management.

I assume you are being sarcastic? It's all about risk management. The insurance company takes on risk by covering you, and you take on risk by purchasing their insurance. If you choose low-cost, high-deductible coverage, you are taking on a greater risk. High-deductible insurance is not new. It's a choice you have.

Strategist says

All those paying off their balances each month and enjoying the rewards must remember the rewards are really being paid by those paying high interest rates on their balances. No wonder banks have to charge such high interest rates.

Hahahahaha, those who pay off their balances each month are takers. That's a new one. You don't think every penny of those retarded interest rates is going into the executives' pockets?