patrick.net

corntrollio says

Explain how it's fair that their neighbor who just moved in pays taxes on a tax
base of $600K and gets the same services.

Its totally fair. As the young couple buying the $600K house is factoring in their tax liability and can budget accordingly. The old couple won't be using the schools as they already paid 30+ years in taxes to utilize City services to raise their kids

Whereas the old couple who bought 30 years ago could never have dreamed their house value would appreciate so much. So if they just paid off their mortgage like normal people and never pulled equity out or took loans, why should they be taxed 6X higher for simply staying in their family home?

Apparently you think they should just be forced from their homes? Liberalism is so compassionate!

Face it, our politicians (especially in California) at both the State and Local level have absolutely no restraint and will spend money as fast as it comes in. They STILL BELIEVE that their pension funds are somehow solvent. Vallejo is going bankrupt AGAIN because they refused to reform their pension liabilities during their first bankruptcy in 2008. They can never dig or cut enough services to cover the pension costs.

So if California politicians were allowed to grow and run government based on massive increases in property taxes in the bubble years, we would be even more screwed today as they never plan for downturns and rarely reduce their labor costs thanks to union protections.

Call it Crazy says

That's more than just a few... There are some MAJOR quality and management issues at the NEW Government Motors...

Which is not true -- again, 94% of the recalls are old GM. Nice fake talking points, but you know very little about the company and its product.

I will never buy an american car. Honda has been good to me and I have no desire to "revisit" issues...

Major car companies by market cap.

http://www.forbes.com/global2000/#page:1_sort:0_direction:asc_search:_filter:Auto%20%26%20Truck%20Manufacturers_filter:All%20countries_filter:All%20states

socal2 says

Apparently you think they should just be forced from their homes? Liberalism is so compassionate!

Again, nothing says this is liberal or conservative (not that you know what those mean). I haven't stated any particular ideology -- I'm merely stating that you don't understand the full implications of Prop 13 and its consequences. Prop 13 serves as a government welfare/subsidy program to people who have owned their property longer. Funny how some people are against welfare/subsidies when it benefits people other than themselves.

Prop 13 creates a lot of inefficiencies in our system, and this is merely one of them. I definitely believe they should be forced from their homes if they can't afford to pay property tax -- that should universally be the case for everyone. Moreover, it makes sense for them to move to a 1 or 2BR condo that they can more easily maintain, as they would in many other states. I've seen what grandma's house looks like after 30 years of neglect, and it looks like shit with all of its deferred maintenance.

socal2 says

The old couple won't be using the schools as they already paid 30+ years in taxes to utilize City services to raise their kids

But they still get police, fire, and other city services. A resident is a resident is a resident. Good schools still benefit these geezers by raising their property values.

socal2 says

Whereas the old couple who bought 30 years ago could never have dreamed their house value would appreciate so much. So if they just paid off their mortgage like normal people and never pulled equity out or took loans, why should they be taxed 6X higher for simply staying in their family home?

That's nonsense though -- if they want to benefit from a 6X increase in value, they have to take the good with the bad. Otherwise they are getting a huge windfall simply for doing nothing. This is a huge distortion created by Prop 13. Pulling on the heart strings with the "family home" BS doesn't change the economics of it.

If this were simply about keeping grandma in her house (which it shouldn't be), there are better mechanisms to do so that create fewer distortions. For example, we could simply defer market-rate property taxes, and keep them as a lien against the house. Then the heirs would have to pay off the tax lien when the house sold. That would be a far better mechanism than Prop 13, which creates a lot of distortions between state and local government, causes shittier services and schools, and causes local governments to greatly raise sales taxes, among other things (which I've detailed on Patnet before). Prop 13 bases should absolutely not be inheritable either.

You're trying to make Prop 13 about starve the beast, but it quite obviously doesn't do that because state income tax and sales taxes have gone up. Instead, it serves as a huge distortions and causes a lot of structural problems in how California is run. Property tax revenues are very stable, whereas state income tax and sales tax are not, which is why we have the funky budgets in California.

I'm still not sure if my above posted Toyota recall notice is satire or not.

socal2 says

I wouldn't gripe about my already high taxes if I knew it went to pay for vital infrastructure, schools and services.

If it weren't for prop 13 there would be much more funding for these things.

And new homeowners would be paying no more than they do now. The price would be much lower, and the taxes would be higher.

Yes, maybe some retirees would have had to take out reverse mortgages or even moved to cheaper states. So ?

Meanwhile there would be a vibrant economy, with cheaper land and plenty of new construction. Just think of al the tear downs that would be happening. With land actually being put to it's highest and best use.

I'm sorry, am I making too much sense ?

socal2 says

haven't taken any equity out or benefitted financially in any way. I think this is just phantom money. How is it fair to raise my taxes based on these volatile bubble increases?

Without prop 13 the volatility would be far lower.

controlio it's absurd to believe more abundant labor creates wealth and jobs in itself. It can't.

And I know for a fact that the previous amnesty encourages more illegal alien workers to come here.

Since I'm bilingual, sometimes for fun I watch Mexican channels here on TV. Many times the theme is when the next amnesty will come, they have estimated "it seems to happen every 20 years" etc.

My Mexican friends all hear stories of some Mexican guy who comes here, lives for 25 years illegally and then is deported. None of them can believe we are so "cruel" to do this to someone.

Hey, I got one-
Piece-O-Shit Republicans in North Carolina want to make it illegal to do pre-drilling, baseline, testing of water supplies and make it a felony to "disclose" fracking chemicals.
You have no right to know what is being pumped into the ground and infiltrating the water supply.
In their Energy Modernization Act it is a fucking "trade secret".

Why did you delete my response? The one where I asked if you were referring to just before the press conference, and that it actually sounds like he said '...ready to start.' I then asked you if you had clearer audio of it. Are you trying to hide something?

You have just posted up a video with far worse audio. What are you playing at? I don't hear what you claim, and I think you have simply taken that line from one of your many go to conspiracy websites and have run with it.

I feel both angry towards your complete and utter callous bullshit on this matter, and genuinely sorry for the very strange world you have chosen to put yourself in, one where evidence and reason appear to play no part whatsoever. I can only take from this that you have some real problems. Certainly you lack the basic ability to formulate a coherent and logical argument, so maybe this Sandy Hook idiocy gives you the sense of empowerment that you've always lacked in your everyday life. Whatever the reason, what you are doing is very, very sad indeed.

bgamall4 says

Read the lips and listen by turning up the sound. I think you can get it. There are lots of other examples on youtube. I am sure you can find one.

So you read lips now, do you? Why not just listen to the clearer audio? And I can't find a clearer example than the one I posted up. You posted up a far inferior recording of exactly the same broadcast. If there are so many examples on the internet, why did you post up that one?

Hey Bob (aka Cap'n Project-O)... Tell me again, why you think it's OK for Harry Reid and his son to sell American land, or give American land, or allow use of Federal American land to a Chinese firm? Wasn't this land earmarked as 'protected land', to be preserved, or at least put aside for future use for..... Americans?

Why is Harry Reid and son Rory dealing with the Chinese? Why can't Harry deal with an American company? Oh, and then there's the little problem of ethics, where Harry the senator can't be lobbying? What's a babbling schmuck to do? Why, he gets his son to do his dirty work for you (wink-wink, nudge-nudge)... So Bob; call me all the names you want, and project away. I just find it curious that when some local ranchers stood up to Reid, he shrunk back and desisted, knowing he was gonna blow his cover on this shady, unethical 'deal'...
------------------------------------------------

Can you find fault with Reuters? Because this info isn't from Rush (who I don't listen to), nor Fox (which I don't watch). You don't even know me, so quit projecting like a little beyotch.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831

------------------------------------------------------
(Reuters) - U.S. Senator Harry Reid recognized nine years ago that connections between his official duties and the lobbying activities of his relatives could lead to ethical questions.

In 2003, the Nevada Democrat publicly banned relatives from lobbying him or his staff after newspaper reports showed that Nevada industries and institutions routinely turned to Reid's sons or son-in-law for representation.

Now, questions surrounding family ties are flaring again in Nevada around the Senate majority leader. He and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert.

Reid has been one of the project's most prominent advocates, helping recruit the company during a 2011 trip to China and applying his political muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada. His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission.

Craig Holman, a lobbyist for the non-partisan advocacy group Public Citizen, said the senator is dealing with "an iffy ethical landscape" because of the family connections and should recuse himself from the project. "Is this just happening because ... it benefits the Reid family, or did Harry Reid actually believe in this?" Holman said.

The senator has supported numerous clean energy projects in Nevada. Rory Reid cites energy as one of his specialty areas at the law firm.

The two Reids deny discussing the ENN project.

"I have never discussed the project with my father or his staff," said Rory Reid. Kristen Orthman, a spokeswoman for the senator, said he had not discussed the project with his son.

corntrollio says

That's nonsense though -- if they want to benefit from a 6X increase in value, they have to take the good with the bad. Otherwise they are getting a huge windfall simply for doing nothing.

What "huge windfall" are they actually receiving if they don't sell at a massive profit and just live in the home? By all means, tax the shit out of their profit when they sell. But leave them alone when they are just trying to live in the house they bought years ago. There is enough churn in the market, including people who bought a the peak of the bubble to bring in enough high property tax for California.

Besides - California politicians (of all politicians) have more than proven they can't be trusted with that much more revenue during bubble cycles. They are a clown show who refuse to accept basic math and think crazy housing or stock market returns will finance their intemperance.

You sure give a detailed picture of the ethical swampland that the Reid family lurks in.

Any thoughts on the ethics of grazing cattle on land that's not yours for two decades, in defiance of several court rulings, without paying, or is that too complex a matter, full of gray areas and nuance?

bgamall4 says

This is awesome, Bigsby:

No, it's not. It's laughable. I love his initial disclaimer that he's not a life-long conspiracy theorist. No, he's just decided to knock together a ridiculous conspiracy video with all the tired old lines. Yeah, he doesn't have an interest in conspiracies. Sure.

1. What was the point of doing a press conference?

Er, that's proof of a conspiracy? Ha, ha, ha.

2. His eyes weren't bloodshot.

Eh? Yes, they were.

3. How was he able to talk about his child without breaking down?

He was clearly struggling and having difficulty composing himself. It's hardly that unusual that people can manage to hold themselves together for short periods of time, but this idiot thinks it's proof of a conspiracy. Hardly.

And that's basically it. That's his 'proof' with the ubiquitous reference to his nervous smile of course. Do me a fucking favour.

AverageBear says

Hey Bob (aka Cap'n Project-O)... Tell me again, why you think it's OK for Harry Reid and his son to sell American land, or give American land, or allow use of Federal American land to a Chinese firm? Wasn't this land earmarked as 'protected land', to be preserved, or at least put aside for future use for..... Americans?

What happened to reid kicking ranchers off the land to sell to chinese? All over the west including texas (care to document the texas ranchers thrown off their land, I didn't think so). That was your point. Of at least that was what you said. Want to back that up and try again?

What federal land? What "protected land"? Didn't you read your own Reuters article? It says buying from clark county aka las vegas. I guess you didn't bother to look at my link. Not only is it not federal land, it's dry lakebed covered in creosote utterly worthless for ranching or almost anything else. For someone who doesn't watch rush or fox you sure are an expert at their tactics. Ignore facts, keep changing the subject.

Senators are supposed to bring economically lucrative projects to their home states. That what voters send them to washington for. Gee, I wonder if senators from MA have ever lobbied for projects for their state? Say it ain't so joe.

The same way we got Osama Bin Laden?

Create a honeypot by attracting his kidnappers to a Japanese Model with a special razor-filled chamber...

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Nice. But does no one want to skull fuck Kim Jung-un to death?

No. You might end up catching an unknown disease named after him.

The Professor says

bgamall4 says

Bigsby=Stupid.

Bigsby is not stupid, perhaps ignorant or a government agent, but not stupid.

Unless you enjoy dancing with him I suggest you ignore him.

You two paranoid imbeciles deserve each other. Have fun.

I would think it would look a lot like this:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/5SDBpW_SP68

I did, but when I'm not logged in your posts are still visible. But don't worry, you'll soon be enjoying posting to yourself or occasionally in an echo chamber with the couple of other conspiracy nuts on here, though you'll probably have to refocus on 9/11 for that as they seem to be less inclined to indulge in your level of crazy. Like I said, have fun.

Cyanide laced hair pomade?

Have him torn limb from limb by massive hirsute lesbians who have been fed a concoction of PCP and anabolic steroids for weeks to work them into a chronic, maniacal, frothing rage.

They can disembowel him with strap ons first.

Hand him to the Fed.

Then, the MHLs can lick the blood streaming from the rending feast out of each others' swollen vulvas and steroid induced enormous clitorises for the televised entertainment of the masses.

Ewwww! I am becoming APOCALYPSerated.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

How about pouring gravy on his gonads and tossing him into a room filled with starving dogs.

Why do you hate dogs? Turn him over to Al Qaeda.

Yeah, a thousand VIEWS, and what, three or four people posting, so it's clearly repeated views by the same people. Most everyone who regularly posts on this forum has you on ignore and doesn't see your threads or posts. I was basically the only person left responding to your befuddled reasoning and laughable assertions, but that is now going to end.
Enjoy the remainder of your life and try and find a better hobby.

Call it Crazy says

BlackRock CEO Laurence Fink said Tuesday that the housing market is “ structurally more unsound ” than prior to the financial crisis due to its reliance on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, according to news reports.

True. We need more loan programs, more lenders and less regulations.

Call it Crazy says

Real-estate investor Sam Zell says he expects the Homeownership rate to drop as low as 55% as more people delay marriages.

More renters. Higher rents just round the corner. Buy now.

You forgot to mention this link that was part of the article. That's alright, I did it for you.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/5-reasons-the-housing-market-will-be-just-fine-2014-05-22

Call it Crazy says

(Condos may be the last step before moving to the rental apartment)

In high priced areas, condos are the first step before moving into houses.

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

Call it Crazy says

(Condos may be the last step before moving to the rental apartment)

In high priced areas, condos are the first step before moving into houses.

or, the last step before moving to a rental....

You are thinking backwards. Are you still feeling the motions of the ship?

Strategist says

Call it Crazy says

(Condos may be the last step before moving to the rental apartment)

In high priced areas, condos are the first step before moving into houses.

Condos are a ripoff. I guess they're ok if someone is lazy don't want to keep up their place, but in a decent condo the HOA fees are greater than the difference in price to a house. Each $100 in HOA is like 25K added to purchase price (minimum, HOAs will go up over 30 years while payments are fixed) and they aren't giving you 100k discount off a SFR. Apartment style condos are considerably cheaper, but then again you can rent something equivalent for significantly less than the payments.

I dunno when I was looking at a place my agent kept trying to push condos but I did the math and it didn't make sense. Likely in SF proper or other high density spots it's different but in the burbs condos suck IMO.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Easier to rent to an ASSHOLE! who is eager to pay your mortgage.

Customers Apocalypse, Customers.

varmint says

Strategist says

Call it Crazy says

(Condos may be the last step before moving to the rental apartment)

In high priced areas, condos are the first step before moving into houses.

Condos are a ripoff. I guess they're ok if someone is lazy don't want to keep up their place, but in a decent condo the HOA fees are greater than the difference in price to a house. Each $100 in HOA is like 25K added to purchase price (minimum, HOAs will go up over 30 years while payments are fixed) and they aren't giving you 100k discount off a SFR. Apartment style condos are considerably cheaper, but then again you can rent something equivalent for significantly less than the payments.

That is a common belief, but keep in mind the association covers a lot of maintenance that you would do anyway, like roof repairs, painting and landscaping.

Strategist says

True. We need more loan programs, more lenders and less regulations.

Loan programs depend on who is willing to lend which are the savers and the risk reward. Currently the FED is screwing around with low rates which skews the risk premium. Adding Govt just screws the market even more.

As far as regulations... regulate who ? Banks ... im sure the left like that... but real regulations have not been implementated with regards to the Realtors ...

"1. Affordability is really, seriously good.

The median 2013 first-time home buyer had income of $64,400, according to the National Association of Realtors. With a clean balance sheet, Bankrate.com says that buyer can afford a $259,672 home. The national median house price is $201,700."

One should look at markets and see affordability is screwed in the West. National numbers as such mean little.

Call it Crazy says

Did you read the article??? If someone can't afford to buy a house, they buy a condo. What happens if they can't afford to buy the condo?

Buy a trailer or rent an apartment?

They continue renting.

thomaswong.1986 says

"1. Affordability is really, seriously good.

The median 2013 first-time home buyer had income of $64,400, according to the National Association of Realtors. With a clean balance sheet, Bankrate.com says that buyer can afford a $259,672 home. The national median house price is $201,700."

One should look at markets and see affordability is screwed in the West. National numbers as such mean little.

The West, along with NY has always had a pathetic affordability rate. Prices still keep rising. Compared to historical levels the West has seen a jump in affordability rates.

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

Call it Crazy says

Did you read the article??? If someone can't afford to buy a house, they buy a condo. What happens if they can't afford to buy the condo?

Buy a trailer or rent an apartment?

They continue renting.

You're slowing learning.... Finally!!

My wife says I never learn.

Strategist says

More renters. Higher rents just round the corner

Precisely correct. We have over 6 million new renter households since 2007. And considering how both rents and home prices increased, it's going to be very difficult for the renters to save up for downpayment. Regrettably, many of them will end up renters for life.