patrick.net

The true cause of poverty is that people aren't equal, amplified by the fact that people aren't equally connected. Poverty won't be eliminated by policy; it will be eliminated by human evolution. Wait times may be lengthy. Sigh.

The reality is that if someone wants to improve themselves they have to find out what is wanted and produce it. Entrepreneurs are exceptional at this.

Anything to the contrary is just a bunch of propaganda people adopt to use as an excuse not to try.

indigenous says

The reality is that if someone wants to improve themselves they have to find out what is wanted and produce it.

Someone with no resources (including credit rating) can't produce anything. They probably can't even determine what is wanted. Wish it wasn't so, but we're talking an insurmountable challenge nine-point-nine times out of ten.

Howdy There says

Someone with no resources (including credit rating) can't produce anything. They probably can't even determine what is wanted.

I don't agree, in fact that is the propaganda that the left wants you to believe.

In any case anyone anywhere can DO something to improve their situation, and that is a fact.

Dan8267 says

It is you who is putting up straw man arguments.

Such as?

jazz music says

You focused on it, you arrogant prick.

No I didn't...I just mentioned it. You're the one who keeps focusing on it.

Howdy There says

indigenous says

The reality is that if someone wants to improve themselves they have to find out what is wanted and produce it.

Someone with no resources (including credit rating) can't produce anything. They probably can't even determine what is wanted. Wish it wasn't so, but we're talking an insurmountable challenge nine-point-nine times out of ten.

It does not take much to publish a book nowadays. Determining what is wanted is a matter of curiosity and the want to improve oneself. There is also a need to seek mentors, not "friends" who will say whatever you want to hear. 99% of the challenges can be overcome from within.

Howdy There says

The true cause of poverty is that people aren't equal, amplified by the fact that people aren't equally connected.

Also, poverty exists because people are labelled as such. This encourages the development and persistence of bad values.

"Once you label me you negate me."
-- Søren Kierkegaard

Peter P says

99% of the challenges can be overcome from within.

Sactly

Peter P says

Howdy There says

indigenous says

The reality is that if someone wants to improve themselves they have to find out what is wanted and produce it.

Someone with no resources (including credit rating) can't produce anything. They probably can't even determine what is wanted. Wish it wasn't so, but we're talking an insurmountable challenge nine-point-nine times out of ten.

It does not take much to publish a book nowadays. Determining what is wanted is a matter of curiosity and the want to improve oneself. There is also a need to seek mentors, not "friends" who will say whatever you want to hear. 99% of the challenges can be overcome from within.

Well if that's the case it should be no problem at all for you to overcome your relative poverty and join the 0.001%

Just grab your bootstraps and get to work and you'll be surroundimg yourself with montreal hookers aboard one of your many yachts

New Renter says

Well if that's the case it should be no problem at all for you to overcome your relative poverty and join the 0.001%

Just grab your bootstraps and get to work...

It should be everyone's goal to keep moving up. The most dangerous thing in life is aiming too low. Fail fast and fail up.

Then again, not everyone can reach his goal, and that is fine. The world will benefit from us trying.

Peter P says

The world will benefit from us trying.

Ah yes, Kim Jong Il's personal mantra.

New Renter says

Peter P says

The world will benefit from us trying.

Ah yes, Kim Jong Il's personal mantra.

That guy's comedic talent is unmatched.

When is The Interview coming out? Can't wait to see it.

Peter P says

The solution to the poverty problem is to emphasize the piety of wealth.

If people want to live better, they must have the right belief systems.

I'll ask the logic question again. Is it theoretically possible that if everyone had the necessary beliefs that there would be close to zero poverty ? Or even far less poverty?

marcus says

Peter P says

The solution to the poverty problem is to emphasize the piety of wealth.

If people want to live better, they must have the right belief systems.

I'll ask the logic question again. Is it theoretically possible that if everyone had the necessary beliefs that there would be close to zero poverty ? Or even far less poverty?

Why does that matter?

Peter P says

Why does that matter?

LEt me get this straight. You talk about the cause of poverty, and the solution to poverty, and then you ask, why does it matter if you're full of shit and don't even believe the nonsense you're spouting ?

I guess you have a point. But unlike you, I wasn't trolling. I thought maybe you really believed your nonsense.

marcus says

LEt me get this straight. YOu talk about the cause of poverty, and the solution to poverty, and then you ask, does it matter if you're full of shit and don't even believe the nonsense you're spouting ?

Everyone has his own reality, influenced by his values and belief system. That is all that matters. Whether there is zero poverty, or 3.14% poverty, or any percentage is an arbitrary concept in the mind of otherwise unemployable social "scientists."

Ah, I see you're above seriously answering the question. Funny that such a psuedo intellect who spews nonsensical meaningless generalizations about peoples realities would also talk about social scientists being unemployable.

Let me guess. You're a fan of "the secret." "Think and grow rich," perhaps ?

"The Secret" is no secret. Even if you disagree on the operating principles of the universe, you must agree that positive thinking brings positive result.

Of course attitude and beliefs are hugely important to the individual.

But they have nothing to do with the general cause of poverty in society.

There's a reason you people are having neural spats of meaningless angerism...
http://www.youtube.com/embed/OvEKT8X3Bko

marcus says

Of course attitude and beliefs are hugely important to the individual.

But they have nothing to do with the general cause of poverty in society.

The general cause is just a matter of collective beliefs.

prodigy says

There's a reason you people are having neural spats of meaningless angerism...

Astrologically, we are living in interesting times.

Peter P says

The general cause is just a matter of collective beliefs.

SO was it the collective beliefs of slaves in the US that ended slavery ?

marcus says

I'll ask the logic question again. Is it theoretically possible that if everyone had the necessary beliefs that there would be close to zero poverty ? Or even far less poverty?

Absolutely. If everyone were responsible, honest and worked hard, there would be FAR less poverty than we have today. Hence, the reason to not prop up the lazy and weak thereby rewarding bad behavior and perpetuating the problem.

debyne says

Absolutely. If everyone were responsible, honest and worked hard, there would be FAR less poverty than we have today.

Responsibility, honesty, and hard work are colored by value judgement. As a result, one still needs to have the right values.

Responsibility. Individual or societal?

Honesty. Is someone more successful automatically less honest? Is it dishonest to prey on stupidity?

Hard work. In addition to time and effort, one must be in a constant state of reinvention.

Peter P says

debyne says

Absolutely. If everyone were responsible, honest and worked hard, there would be FAR less poverty than we have today.

Responsibility, honesty, and hard work are colored by value judgement. As a result, one still needs to have the right values.

Responsibility. Individual or societal?

Honesty. Is someone more successful automatically less honest? Is it dishonest to prey on stupidity?

Hard work. In addition to time and effort, one must be in a constant state of reinvention.

Before I respond, let me see if I can find my trying-to-sound-smart-but-saying-nothing decoder ring.

Simple stuff really, if you reward people for producing they will produce if you reward people for not producing they will not produce.

If you reward people for being gimp they will be gimp as with the 10 million on permanent disability.

If you reward people for raising the standard of living for the entire planet then you get the: the google guys, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, John Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, Thomas Edison (unfairly not Tesla), South Korea (not North Korea), Germany (not East Germany), Hong Kong/Taiwan (not mainland China at the time), US before 1913, etc.

Here is a 12 year old entrepreneur in Kenya:

http://blog.ted.com/2013/02/26/a-12-year-old-learns-to-scare-lions-richard-turere-at-ted2013/

You mutts don't realize how much you have been infected with liberal propaganda.

RE: Edison and Tesla

Ideas are a dime a dozen. The implementor/marketer is more important than the inventor.

Everybody knows Microsoft and Apple. Who remembers Xerox PARC?

Yeah,yeah. I'm not playing one upmanship.

The point was that in a socialistic country you are rewarded for no reason IOW there is no price discovery.

Life organically does have price discovery and rewards it, as with the 12yr old Kenyan boy.

Yes, price discovery is very important.

I think many people agree, but to them the "cost" is too high. They argue for arbitrary concepts like fairness and merit. I am sure they mean well, but categorical value judgment is meaningless IMO.

Sure, fairness is important, but in what context? In any game, the losers will always cry foul. Should the outcome of all games be a matter of participation only?

The problem is that we are ALL subjectivists. Worse yet, too many of us also pretend to be objective. As a result, reasons are invented for emotional comfort.

debyne says

If everyone were responsible, honest and worked hard, there would be FAR less poverty than we have today. Hence, the reason to not prop up the lazy and weak thereby rewarding bad behavior and perpetuating the problem.

I can (sort of) agree with the second sentence, in this sense. There is an inherent problem in just paying people a living income for doing nothing. This leads to too many bad parents having children, and a lack of personal responsibility and so on. I don't claim to know how society will address that, but it is addressable as we eventually move into an age where some sort of minimal income to people will be necessary.

But as for the previous sentence ?

"If everyone were responsible, honest and worked hard, there would be FAR less poverty than we have today."

I disagree. If this were the case, a huge number of these people would find themselves in jobs that don't pay enough to live. This already exists to a degree today. People who are willing to work, that is people who insist on working, but the best job (or multiple jobs) they can get, which take up most of their energy, do not pay enough. So they are on food stamps anyway.

Food stamps are a way of hiding the fact that our economy is not working for some who want to work but can't get a good job. WE don't see lines of people begging for assistance. Food stamps are also a back door welfare for the employers who can then pay less than the cost of living, knowing the government will support those people.

If everyone insisted on working, when there are not enough jobs, this only creates more jobs that pay even less.

The idea that more people being responsible and willing to work and having the right beliefs automatically creates more decent paying jobs ? How can anyone believe such illogical nonsense ?

marcus says

our economy is not working for some who want to work but can't get a good job

A simple desire to work is insufficient. The work must also be something value by the market. One must be in tune with the market and satisfy its wants.

What if I really want to work as a telephone operator? Or an elevator driver?

Trust funders are just fine. There are roughly two types: some take advantage of the gift and do something productive (e.g. the Ellison kids), others are pure consumers.

There is much anger leveled against the second group. However, since they are such great consumers, you can just sell more things to them, which means business opportunities for everyone!

AT&T took a lot of risks building a large LTE network. It is easy to underprice risks but that is the true essence of running a business.

Sure, a lot of people do nothing in the office. Some people claim to be making less doing all the "hard" work. But why don't they learn to bullshit? Perhaps it is a real skill.

Words like "earn" may be romantic, but what does it actually mean?

If Peter P went to college, I'm thinking he was a 'C' student, liberal arts major. Nothing against liberal arts majors, in fact I respect the hard working intelligent ones. But this guy is....just a bullshitter.

Peter P says

But why don't they learn to bullshit? Perhaps it is a real skill.

Yes. perhaps it is, but a very annoying one the way that you demonstrate it, as you have in this entire thread.

marcus says

Yes. perhaps it is, but a very annoying one the way that you demonstrate it, as you have in this entire thread.

I got you to waste time responding, didn't I?

Yes. Your human compassion and intelligence overwhelms me. [/sarcasm]

Goal oriented are we?

marcus says

Yes. Your human compassion and intelligence overwhelms me.

And nothing flatters me more than long responses to my one-liners. :-)