patrick.net

Portal says

Probably, but I know she will always want more and come asking us for more.

Portal, she may live to 90 - but she may not live to 90 cooking and cleaning for herself. She may live to 90 after spending 15 years ... in a nursing home. And that's at least $3000/month any day of the week.

We need to know some stuff:

* What does the SSA say she'll get per month? She can go to the SSA office and get this info.
* Does she have a pension?
* Is she willing to work Part Time if the above isn't enough?

And don't let the Boomer pull any of their mememe crap - she got help from her parents, so she damn well better leave at least SOMETHING for the grandkids besides some old blazers with shoulder pads circa 1986.

And double what Peter P said - first priority is your children, so make sure the wife is in agreement.

turtledove says

Portal says

she tells me, you guys (wife and I and her sister and husband) are going to have to take care of this.

This is the part that confuses me. Take care of what? Is she saying that you will have to pay off her debts (absurd)? Or is she saying that you will have to "take care of this" by supporting her until she dies? Or is she saying that you have to "take care of this" by coming up with a solution where she can retire, travel, and live forever using her existing portfolio?

Room and board when she finally goes broke. It's not like his wife would throw her mother on the street so they are firmly on the hook for this. Anything above that - unrealistic (and easy to say no to).

She told me her SSA is around 1200$ a month. I told her she waits longer the payout increases and considering she will live long she should keep on working.
No pension. She is a naturopathic doctor. Or a Noctor as I like to term them. Pushers of Quack science.
I am not sure if she is willing to work part time because she already has a great job with amazing flexibility. She literally has travelled 8 times this year across the U.S. including hawaii.

thunderlips11 says

What does the SSA say she'll get per month? She can go to the SSA office and get this info.

* Does she have a pension?

* Is she willing to work Part Time if the above isn't enough?

That is the biggest problem. Because even if I logically explain to my wife that she is a master of her own destiny in this case. And even though my wife nods her head in agreement. I know when shit hits the fan that she's going to be living in my basement telling me how all the produce I buy needs to be Organic.
Straw Man says

It's not like his wife would throw her mother on the street so they are firmly on the hook for this

She did not go into details. We were going over her finances and hit the 100k debt at ~80 scenario and she throws out "you guys will need to take care of that", which I assumed meant the money. She quickly changed the topic to something else in her finances as I released my butthole from just being fisted up the ass.

turtledove says

This is the part that confuses me. Take care of what? Is she saying that you will have to pay off her debts (absurd)? Or is she saying that you will have to "take care of this" by supporting her until she dies? Or is she saying that you have to "take care of this" by coming up with a solution where she can retire, travel, and live forever using her existing portfolio?

I think she understands finance very well. Live large on somebody else's dollar.

Just tell her DIE, EVIL BOOMERFUCK, FUCKING DIE, ALREADY! Seems to work around here.

The story is a little hard to believe. I know there are people exactly like that, and yet this sounds made up to me, for some reason.

If it's true, she needs to be convinced to either work longer or move and cut her cost of living in retirement, if it means so much to her.

The part that's so hard to believe, is that nobody, not even selfish narcissistic boomers, want to be a burden on others in their old age. If the story is true, I believe it would be possible to reason with her about all of this.

Besides, all of that new age healthful living should make it possible for her to work at least until 70.

You've never met selfish people? Good for you.

There is obviously more to this story. MIL is two times divorced. She is finding herself alone at the age of 63 and not liking it. I believe she also gets depressed if she is not around her friends and cannot afford to go on the trips they go on. As a result, she is in active denial of her financial predicament because she can't bear to live a life of frugality with all of its consequences.

marcus says

The story is a little hard to believe.

Statement below is an oxymoron. They are selfish and narcissistic and as a result, even though they do not want to burden others, they will to appease their needs.
marcus says

not even selfish narcissistic boomers, want to be a burden on others in their old age.

Peter P says

Do guys generally get along with their mother-in-laws?

Generally, no. The MIL usually thinks her daughter could have done better. In many cases, they don't think we are doing enough. There are the few (I'd guess 20%) where the MIL is overjoyed with the son-in-law, but not the case for the vast majority. Plus from the SIL point of view, she's a shrew, a shrill and a general pain-in-the-rear. We wish she'd shut up and we're tired of her telling her daughter that we're not as good of a husband as she SHOULD have married.

Portal says

She tells me she can't, she has to retire. I tell her, then she has to cut expenses. She tells me she can't, she has to travel.

Can't fix stupid. All the 'she has to' pretty much puts her in a bad way. She WILL be in debt by the time she's 75, the BEST that you can do is explain to your wife the situation. Tell her to be prepared for a broke and hurting mother by the time mom is 75 (or sooner). She WILL end up living with you (I put it at a 90% chance) or you and the wife will divorce over it (50% chance you won't divorce, but the tension that it will produce and the underlying tension that will exist till mom's death will make divorce look tempting). There is reality and stupidity, your MIL is living (and loving it) in the land of stupidity.

Portal says

I believe she also gets depressed if she is not around her friends and cannot afford to go on the trips they go on.

Damn, it sucks when reality hits you in the face. To hell with reality, spend like there is no tomorrow, because when you finally die there will be no tomorrow. Into the land of debt I go because I KNOW that I can always fall back on my daughter and SIL.

Portal says

all the produce I buy needs to be Organic.

Gasp - it's NOT already? Oh, the horror, do you KNOW what you are doing to your body??? Do you realize what chemicals you are ingesting? Allow her to enlighten you. You are in for SUCH a blessing.

Blurtman says

Put her on the street.

Does she even look that (choke) hot?? I mean we might be able to fix her up with Rin. Whadda ya think?

Portal says

No pension. She is a naturopathic doctor. Or a Noctor as I like to term them. Pushers of Quack science.

Oh Boy. So she probably works for herself or a coven of quacks/chiromancers and thus no pension. Certainly no retirement savings.

Portal says

I know when shit hits the fan that she's going to be living in my basement telling me how all the produce I buy needs to be Organic.

Wonderful. You said she gets depressed from being lonely - here's one solution right now - she can get a roommate and save money. Just hope the roommate is as Earthy-Crunchy as she is.

I'm sorry for your perdicament Portal, maybe a third marriage is her best option.

I have to agree with those who suggest this is something you should discuss in detail with your wife. Go over the various scenarios based on reality, make sure your wife understands all of the worst case scenarios, and find out your wife's ideas about supporting her mother. You should probably find out now if your wife is of the mindset that her mother should be supported by you regardless of any other considerations. At least if you find out now, you'll have a few years to start working on changing her perceptions. If that proves fruitless, you can start working on your exit strategy.

Exit strategy story (funny in a sick, sad sort of way): My high school boyfriend's parents were married 22 years. All seemed okay. My boyfriend was the youngest of the children. When he went off to college, his parents and I accompanied him to his campus. All seemed okay. His parents and I flew back home together. All seemed okay. They dropped me back at my house. All seemed okay. Later that evening, my boyfriend's mother shows up at our house completely hysterical. Her husband informed her that he had a girlfriend who was moving into their house, and he didn't want to be married to her any longer. He served her with divorce papers and had already changed the locks (presumably while we were up at the college). The guy literally waited until the kids grew up... and not a moment longer.

Ernie K-Doe classic, obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sclhVBsZiGo

marcus says

The part that's so hard to believe, is that nobody, not even selfish narcissistic boomers, want to be a burden on others in their old age.

Oh no, Boomers don't want to be a burden - as in someone else financing their retirements in a direct way.

They just think it's normal for millennials to come up with the cash to pay $600K for a house they paid 150.

turtledove says

The guy literally waited until the kids grew up...

Back in the day, I had friends who's parents would attend the kid's high school graduation with a new set of luggage ... with the kid's belongs (clothes) in the suitcases. All the locks were changed and the kid was on his own. On the other side, it wasn't a surprise as all parties were aware of what was going to happen and when. Ah, the old days of 'you're grown now, time to go out on your own' - we grew up really, really fast.

mmmarvel says

Back in the day, I had friends who's parents would attend the kid's high school graduation with a new set of luggage ... with the kid's belongs (clothes) in the suitcases. All the locks were changed and the kid was on his own. On the other side, it wasn't a surprise as all parties were aware of what was going to happen and when. Ah, the old days of 'you're grown now, time to go out on your own' - we grew up really, really fast.

You just have some people who have a strong survival gene and others who don't. The boyfriend's mother I was telling you about stayed with us for about two months (weird, right? Our moms weren't besties or anything... She just showed up and stayed). Anyway... She didn't want to do anything to upset her husband in case he decided to take her back.... so she didn't get the police involved about him changing the locks to their home. He never did take her back.

I was in my senior year of high school at the time. She kept me and my mother up night after night just wallowing in stunned denial that her husband could leave her for "Judith." It got to the point where just hearing the name increased my blood pressure because I knew it would be another pointless conversation. Never a productive word about how she might get her life together and maybe fight back.

After she found her own place, her parents supported her and helped pay her legal fees. It was very frustrating to see a person without a single survival instinct other than to appeal to others for help and pray for miracles. She was a nice lady, but destined to be someone or another's dependent for the rest of her life. Though an entirely different circumstance, the mindset might be similar to the MIL who inspired this thread.

Possible solution to several problems(she's lonely, she needs money): explain the benefits of her getting a housemate. Put out a bad or conspire with a friend to find someone she can live with who can pay rent and provide some commotion around the house. That would solve several problems, but would depend on her not being such a raving bitch that nobody could stand to live with her. Lots of people do the roommate thing, and it can work very well.

follow only 1 rule: don't cosign for jackshit.
you will never be legally responsible for her spending, and you will always have an 'out' if necessary without financial baggage.

caveat: if your wife cosigns for her loans, you're fucked....

From Zero Hedge: Socialism has even changed the historic bounds of family. You had 4 to 6 kids for that was your retirement. The kids knew they had the responsibility of taking care of their parents. Today – that’s government’s job. Everything has been changed to depend upon government that never tells the truth and they will defend to the very last drop of your blood.

My advise, man up. Take on the responsibility for your family if indeed that is still possible in the USA.

turtledove says

I was in my senior year of high school at the time. She kept me and my mother up night after night just wallowing in stunned denial that her husband could leave her for "Judith." It got to the point where just hearing the name increased my blood pressure because I knew it would be another pointless conversation. Never a productive word about how she might get her life together and maybe fight back.

Well, Turtledove, it seems there was absolutely no warning, the shock that somebody she was married to planned this for a long, long time. That's pretty shocking.

You expect to live the rest of your life with somebody you've been with your entire adult life and boom! gone.

That's a pretty big deal, not something you get over in a few days or weeks. And it scars you deep.

Not like the marriage was on the rocks for a while and they were mutually staying together for the sake of the kids.

thunderlips11 says

That's a pretty big deal, not something you get over in a few days or weeks. And it scars you deep.

Of course. In her case though, this went on for much longer than a few weeks. Her parents supported her for a few years... Until she met someone else and remarried.

Don't get me wrong, what he did to her was horrible. She was a nice lady and deserved much better than that guy. But if your only way to cope with bad things is to hope others will step up to the plate.... You're really putting yourself at the mercy of others. If what her husband did to her taught her anything, you'd think it would be an aversion to putting your life in the hands of other people.

Oilwelldoctor says

The kids knew they had the responsibility of taking care of their parents. Today – that’s government’s job. Everything has been changed to depend upon government that never tells the truth and they will defend to the very last drop of your blood.

My advise, man up. Take on the responsibility for your family if indeed that is still possible in the USA.

The same responsibility applies the other way around.
You don't just stop working, go for trips and dump the bill on your children.
At least it didn't use to work that way.

Word, if the man of the house is to be responsible for the others in his family, then he must be a true patriarch with all the authority that implies. If he can't tell his MIL to shape up, start living on a budget, and plan more wisely for the future, then he has no responsibility for her later. What you're advocating is a fuedal system, but in a feudal system, everyone is under the authority of The Lord.

Peter P says

Do guys generally get along with their mother-in-laws?

I don't know about generally but I get along very well with mine. To the point I look forward to her visiting and have told my wife her parents don't visit enough.

As to the situation presented by the OP I agree - for once - with softshell:

SoftShell says

don't cosign for jackshit.

If you do the debt does not die with her.

She wants you to support her - well she'll have to earn her keep. Child care and domestic help come to mind. If she wants to travel she'll have to do it on the cheap. Get a tent a station wagon and a bottle of bear spray. If she's really a "naturopathic doctor" emphasize the "nature" part of camping.

naturopathic doctor - WTF IS that? Can someone even legally call themselves "doctor" in a professional capacity without an accredited doctorate?

My responsibility is my kids, not a 63 year old lady that has been spoon fed her whole life with her parents paying for college, giving her a large down payment, and leaving her 200k retirement money.

She's given me and my wife no money for a downpayment and wants to leave us with thousands of dollars in debt. My kids deserve a college education and as much help not to be debt slaves. She drives a new car, i drive a 2002 car i bought in grad school. She lives in a house bigger than my family of 4 (we currently rent). She spends thousands on vacations. We go to the local park or drive to different national parks. It's not about responsibility, it's about choices.

I sure as hell will not sign for anything. I just got to make my wife aware that she cannot sign for anything.

Oilwelldoctor says

Take on the responsibility for your family if indeed that is still possible in the USA.

Portal says

I sure as hell will not sign for anything. I just got to make my wife aware that she cannot sign for anything.

Easy peasy! Tell her you know this GENIUS named Bernie, she just needs to sign over financial power of attorney to you. You will make sure her money grows faster than inflation and beats the market every single year. Tell her it's a SECRET and nobody must know. Take control of all of her money, give her a stipend to get by on, and laugh from your new sailboat.

Before you know it you'll have all of her friends begging you to take their money too. Pay her off with the inflow from her friends.

It's time (actually, well past) for her "come to Jesus" moment.

Since this will probably end in your divorce.. never, EVER relate to anyone who tries to turn children into a retirement plan.

I had no idea this sort of shit was actually going on. Good luck.

^^ to amend the above.. my 84 / 94 year-old grandparents have never asked me for that sort of help.. They'd rather die than admit defeat (they aren't close... ever)

Again, good luxk. This woman will bankrupt you.,

We go to the local park or drive to different national parks. It's not about responsibility, it's about choices.

Sorry Portal, maybe I wasn't very clear. You have your family. Your immediate family to tend. That is all you are responsible for; not your mother in law. Think a little family meeting is in order to explain when her money runs out, she does too. That is, if your wife agrees. You take on more than you can handle you will all lose.

Good luck

I would never go that far. Acting like that has repercussions on your whole family. In my opinion, in your story, the husband is the one that mirrors the MIL in terms of selfishness. I would want to set a good example for my kids.

My side of the family people will take themselves out before being a burden on someone else. That is why everyone is hard working and some very successful. Wife's side of the family not so much.

turtledove says

Don't get me wrong, what he did to her was horrible.

Portal says

She spends thousands on vacations.

Well here's one solution.

Sign her and her friends up for a traditional Eskimo style Alaskan cruse for the elderly:

http://www.theinitialjourney.com/features/eskimos_01.html

Problem solved!