patrick.net

justme says

Clinton is right. Demand and profit opportunities create jobs.

"You didn't create that demand."

She didn't say that either. Democrats are complete hypocrites they voted for all those things they are blaming the republicans on. Hillary I can't stand she is a complete liar. Can we retire grandma?

Zak says

libero says

Companies only hire if there is demand for their products which comes from the bottom up

False. Companies do R&D all the time, with no customers, and give people new things they never knew they needed/wanted. Google. Facebook. Cellphones. Coffee Chocolate beer from my friend Tony. Demand comes because people like what the inventors made and ask for more. Jobs come because of that. No Larry Page and no Sergey Brin = far fewer jobs in the world today. This is why they are billionaires. They FOUND the demand and built a product that catered to it.

Zak, you are correct. New products are brought to market by small inventor entrepreneurs, some are large but they ain't the size of Walmart. I don't think Hillary ever thinks that far as well as her followers surely don't

beershrine says

New products are brought to market by small inventor entrepreneurs

I can't think of one household product recently that was invented and brought to market by small inventor entrepreneurs.

Google is not a product, it's a service, like Zappo. Nor does Google make Android. Nor is Android OS a Google Product, but is built on free, unpaid, communist Linux. Facebook is a service.

Name me one product with a small inventor, that is now in every household, in the past few years. Just one.

Chipotle is a service franchise, not a product with an inventor. Nobody invented Mexican-style cuisine. Franchises are ancient. Served a dish from behind a windowed counter is also ancient.

This is a capitalist myth, like the myth of the family farmer, the smiling farmer logo looking at you from mass produced industrial scale Agribusiness.

thunderlips11 says

Name me one product with a small inventor, that is now in every household, in the past few years. Just one.

xhose comes to mind in 2 seconds, might not be in everyones home but you are asking far, far to much. 1000's of new products are rolled out yearly you must live in a cave somewhere. Inventions are built or borrowed from other ideas then improved upon. Early cars had buggy wheels, some strapped skate wheels on a board & the skateboard was born. That's how it's done. You are mixing capitalists with product development? very queer (adjective)
http://www.xhoseinventor.com/

Hilary is right- Solyndra didn't create any jobs

thunderlips11 says

indigenous says

Once again a demonstration of how the mutts don't understand Say's law.

Say's Law is not a law. In fact, it's been successfully demonstrated not to work countless times. Supply does not always create demand, in fact, it often doesn't.

Make a million pet rocks and see if they sell.

You do not understand what the definition of productions is. I.E. with any product there has to be price discovery. The price discovery of pet rocks would probably be equal to the commodity price of the rocks, or perhaps the same price as river stone. Although at one time the creator did create more value to the rocks.

In other words the definition of a product is something someone will pay money for.

Say's law is very obvious in a barter market right? If you don't produce something someone wants then you don't have anything to trade.

Why is it you would think that when money is introduced to the market it would be any different?

This is a core fallacy of Keynesian economics.

thunderlips11 says

This is a capitalist myth, like the myth of the family farmer, the smiling farmer logo looking at you from mass produced industrial scale Agribusiness.

No more Horatio Algers?

What about the the guys who started Google, Apple, Microsoft, Hewett Packard they started small.

indigenous says

No more Horatio Algers?

Indignenous, Horatio Alger was a pedophile priest, who abandoned his pastorship just before he was to be held to account for "Despicable Acts" with Children.

All his stories were about some poor kid who gets graced out of poverty by being adopted by a generous man.

indigenous says

What about the the guys who started Google, Apple, Microsoft, Hewett Packard they started small.

You should read about Bill Gates. He wasn't an everyday kid from a middle class family. He was an attendee of a private school so wealthy he could lease time on a mainframe - something that didn't exist for 99.9% of kids in the 1960s. His parents were major league Corporate Lawyers, also, who used their connections to get him meetings. If a similarly intelligent 99%er kid tried to get a meeting with C-Suite execs, the secretary would have him taken out of the building, or at best offered him an internship.

Steve Jobs was an adoptee from a pretty well-off family, he ruthlessly exploited Wozniak many times, such as handing Woz a few hundred bucks then buying himself a Sportscar for something that was 99% Woz's work.

HP I know nothing about.

Google : Both Brin and Page went to Montesorri schools, had Math/Comp Sci PhD Parents, were very smart and in the right place at the right time, plotting the mathematics of the nascent internet. They may not born be 1%ers, but definitely in the top 5-10% at least. The Sanford Faculty and their connections, where they were working on their PhDs, was the right time at the right place to get capital, too.

beershrine says

xhose comes to mind in 2 seconds, might not be in everyones home but you are asking far, far to much. 1000's of new products are rolled out yearly you must live in a cave somewhere. Inventions are built or borrowed from other ideas then improved upon. Early cars had buggy wheels, some strapped skate wheels on a board & the skateboard was born. That's how it's done. You are mixing capitalists with product development? very queer (adjective)

http://www.xhoseinventor.com/

No example except a link to some kind of garden hose company I never heard of before and is not a household name. When you click the "Where to Buy" button, it turns out it's not in Home Depot or TruValue, but only available by order on their own website itself. A website I could make better in 12 hours of work with Joomla, and I'm not a CS guy with only the barest bones amateur command of HTML & CSS and almost no PHP understanding.

Don't get me wrong, it's a cool idea, but the Copyright below shows it's been on offer for almost 14 years yet they still don't sell in any national store yet?

Jobs derive from our guns!

Thunderlips

What about the guy who invented Gopro Camera, Steven Spielberg, or any of the celebrities, rockbands, Elon Musk, Richard Branson, Ross Perot.

There are countless these are just some of the famous ones.

Even more countless are the producers of capital goods the Koch brother types. Many small ones.

IOW your dour perspective is complete bullshit.

indigenous says

What about the guy who invented Gopro Camera, Steven Spielberg, or any of the celebrities, rockbands, Elon Musk, Richard Branson, Ross Perot.

They've all smoked put except for Perot. He is a notorious nitrous oxide abuser.

Call it Crazy says

thunderlips11 says

Don't get me wrong, it's a cool idea, but the Copyright below shows it's been on offer for almost 14 years yet they still don't sell in any national store yet?

Never heard of the Pocket Hose?

I used the xhose example because it is a very true story
of how people steal others peoples ideas and market them faster than the inventor can. Pocket hose is a knock off too.
There is no capitalist myth Thunderlips, capitalism is everywhere you look small and big, Liberals hate it or say they do to try to gain political ground...no way jose...we see right through them.

Zak says

False. Companies do R&D all the time, with no customers, and give people new things they never knew they needed/wanted. Google. Facebook. Cellphones. Coffee Chocolate beer from my friend Tony. Demand comes because people like what the inventors made and ask for more. Jobs come because of that. No Larry Page and no Sergey Brin = far fewer jobs in the world today. This is why they are billionaires. They FOUND the demand and built a product that catered to it.

No, that's not right. The want/need is there already, there just wasn't a product currently available to meet that want/need. If you want to nitpick, the original comment should have been:

Companies only produce (hire) if there is expected future demand for the product which comes from the bottom up.

Better?

tatupu70 says

No, that's not right. The want/need is there already, there just wasn't a product currently available to meet that want/need. If you want to nitpick, the original comment should have been

How an someone want something that they don't know exists because it doesn't exist? That doesn't make any sense. People had no idea they wanted velcro for example. They certainly didn't need velcro (strippers might be an exception) Zippers and buttons worked just fine. Once they saw it they said oh this works better and a fortune was made.

bob2356 says

How an someone want something that they don't know exists because it doesn't exist?

It's a bit of a theoretical exercise, but the demand is there even if the product isn't. Would I buy a flying car if it existed for $5K. Damn right. At that price, there would be large demand. Even though the product doesn't exist.

Companies do focus groups all the time to get information on what demand exists for products that haven't been created yet. Often before they spend on R&D.

Don't think so.
You do not know what operational/comfort parameters would exist for such a vehicle. what if you had no control, completely automated...what if the crash rate was excessively high along with the fatalities since you would be airborne...what if you had to be strapped into a cockpit with no room for comfort due to weight restrictions....what if what if what if????

there's no guarentee there would be any demand for such a vehicle....

tatupu70 says

It's a bit of a theoretical exercise, but the demand is there even if the product isn't. Would I buy a flying car if it existed for $5K. Damn right. At that price, there would be large demand. Even though the product doesn't exist.

tatupu70 says

It's a bit of a theoretical exercise, but the demand is there even if the product isn't. Would I buy a flying car if it existed for $5K. Damn right. At that price, there would be large demand. Even though the product doesn't exist.

Why wander off into flying cars? Go back to velcro. There was a perfectly adaquate existing product that met all existing demand. Velcro just supplanted some of the demand. If never invented it wouldn't have mattered, buttons and zippers would have simply had a bigger market. So the need wasn't for velcro, it was for clothing closures. A lot of products, velcro being one, get invented by accident. No focus group involved.

beershrine says

There is no capitalist myth Thunderlips, capitalism is everywhere you look small and big, Liberals hate it or say they do to try to gain political ground...no way jose...we see right through them.

How does this liberals hate it thing work, other than I said so?

bob2356 says

Why wander off into flying cars? Go back to velcro. There was a perfectly adaquate existing product that met all existing demand. Velcro just supplanted some of the demand. If never invented it wouldn't have mattered, buttons and zippers would have simply had a bigger market. So the need wasn't for velcro, it was for clothing closures. A lot of products, velcro being one, get invented by accident. No focus group involved.

Just thought it illustrated the point easier. Same focus group--would you buy a clothing closure product that was easier and cheaper? I think most people would say yes.

No argument that things get invented by accident. My point is only that there can be and is demand for products that don't exist.

SoftShell says

Don't think so.

You do not know what operational/comfort parameters would exist for such a vehicle. what if you had no control, completely automated...what if the crash rate was excessively high along with the fatalities since you would be airborne...what if you had to be strapped into a cockpit with no room for comfort due to weight restrictions....what if what if what if????

there's no guarentee there would be any demand for such a vehicle....

First off--guarantee. I would think the grammar Nazi would be able to spell.

Second-- Your post is ridiculous. Sorry, next time I'll post every operational condition..

Hillary is defining the election debate. IT is an absurd statement, but she will use questions about it to launch in to her attack on trickle down economics and how much of a failure it's been.

Mish can try deny the extent to which supply side nonsense has contributed to the wealth gap. He's like to pin it on unions. I don't think that's gonna fly.

Tat manifests advanced stages of Keynesian Kool Aid poisoning.

The dynamic of improving one's situation is organic to man. Nullifying this dynamic by saying it is nothing more than an exploitation of the "group" is just more Keynesian Kool Aid.

This video is one of the Wogster's favorites, he asked me to link this:

The group can be counted on to turn things to shit.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/TRXcaWVr_uI

indigenous says

What about the guy who invented Gopro Camera, Steven Spielberg, or any of the celebrities, rockbands, Elon Musk, Richard Branson, Ross Perot.

The rest are mostly service providers, not small inventors who introduced a household product. ET and Kiss aren't products made by inventors in their garage.

Honey, go get the ET and turn on his heartlight - it's too dark in the closet to see my shoe collection.

Well, maybe Gene Simmon's tongue is the creation of a mad scientist in his garage lab.

Call it Crazy says

Never heard of the Pocket Hose?

Nobody invented that - I was born with one

thunderlips11 says

The rest are mostly service providers, not small inventors who introduced a household product.

As usual you jump over the important to examine the trivial.

indigenous says

As usual you jump over the important to examine the trivial.

I think "Household Product" commonly means a physical item, not a movie or group of musicians.

I never heard of Motley Crue or Indiana Jones -- or for that matter Virgin Airlines -- referred to as a "Household Product".

thunderlips11 says

I think "Household Product" commonly means a physical item, not a movie or group of musicians.

Again the defintion of a product is something people will pay money for.

indigenous says

Again the defintion of a product is something people will pay money for.

But not "Household Product"

thunderlips11 says

But not "Household Product"

What?

indigenous says

Yeah I used to like this sort of speech when I was a Glibertopian.

Now I see what an asshole this guy was.

Destroyed a building for which he was the hireling designer, because he despised the changes in "his" work. Completing ignoring the real owners, the financiers, and all the workmen.

Randism is sociopathy.

Vicente says

Now I see

Au contraire it is just advancing myopia

indigenous says

thunderlips11 says

But not "Household Product"

What?

thunderlips11 says

I can't think of one household product recently that was invented and brought to market by small inventor entrepreneurs.

thunderlips11 says

I can't think of one household product recently that was invented and brought to market by small inventor entrepreneurs.

Ok, No George Foreman grills, none of the QVC stuff, no Ronko pocket fisherman, none of the crap in that magazine that has a ton of that crap, none of those fabulous kitchen appliances, none of those helpful devices at home depot, laser levels, etc etc

Me thinks you are holding onto to your ideology a little too tight.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

She is the apotheosis of humankind.

You are confusing, I thought Lizzy Warren was?

For a second I thought you were Dan's backup patnet user until i realized there was no bulleted list in your comment.

thunderlips11 says

Honey, go get the ET and turn on his heartlight - it's too dark in the closet to see my shoe collection.

indigenous says

No George Foreman grills, none of the QVC stuff, no Ronko pocket fisherman,

I think this is a stretch. QVC? C'mon. Show me one person who doesn't have teased hair that buys anything on QVC. And Foreman didn't invent his Grill and besides that product was introduced 20 years ago.

thunderlips11 says

I think this is a stretch.

Au Contraire you are the grasping at straws...

thunderlips11 says

indigenous says

No more Horatio Algers?

Indignenous, Horatio Alger was a pedophile priest, who abandoned his pastorship just before he was to be held to account for "Despicable Acts" with Children.

All his stories were about some poor kid who gets graced out of poverty by being adopted by a generous man.

indigenous says

What about the the guys who started Google, Apple, Microsoft, Hewett Packard they started small.

You should read about Bill Gates. He wasn't an everyday kid from a middle class family. He was an attendee of a private school so wealthy he could lease time on a mainframe - something that didn't exist for 99.9% of kids in the 1960s.

There's only one way for an upstart, to become rich (at least the lower, starting rich) without those connections ... prop trading. Yes, the story of Jesse Livermore of the greater Boston area, was a regular Joe, who knew how to make trades, and later, a small fortune on Wall St.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Lauriston_Livermore

Unfortunately, he'd killed himself, due to family & other personal issues, I mean nobody's perfect, but the fact remains that he knew how to make money.

At my company, we also have a prop trader, who's clearly a rainmaker. I suspect that when this gig is over, he'll be retiring to the tune of $100M.

Rin says

There's only one way for an upstart, to become rich (at least the lower, starting rich) without those connections ... prop trading.

I'm sure you have read about this guy

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/72756316-michael-burry-profiled-bloomberg-risk-takers.html

Not everyone has his or your rainmaker's ability.

I will disagree that it is the only way to get rich, although a relative term.

Becoming a public servant seems to be a sure fire way to make millions.

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