patrick.net

thunderlips11 says

Call it Crazy says

I'm guessing you don't have any kids and are in the GenX or Gen Y age bracket...

Nope, I have a 1 year old but yes, I'm a Gen Xer - raised by Silents.

I'm a Gen Xer, too, CIC! (Though raised by Boomers.)

turtledove says

I'm guessing the grandparents were giving her ideas.

I get the feeling this kid was probably mostly raised by her grandparents.

Damn right as to giving her ideas. If I paid for my son's education, and he refused to pay for his daughter's - my grandchild's - I'd seriously consider disowning his ass.

His membership in the Lips family is up for debate, to put it mildly, as far as I'm concerned.

Especially if he had a smart kid who got good grades when she went to community college, and her parents refused to send her to the best school she qualified to enter, even though her parents made nearly $300k/year and should be able to afford it all cash, easy no problem with plenty of money to spare.

This kid is not a drug addict. This kid is not a goof-off, any more than any other 18-21 year old is a goof-off.

The best the parents could come up with is that she underage drank once or twice, something I'm sure they never did, and it's not a good reason anyway. Curfew? If sent their daughter to a regular 4-year school, there would be no curfew. Why didn't they?

People talk about the real world. There are no curfews in the real world. I have never rented an apartment, even at 19 when I rented my first one, when the landlord knocked at 2AM and told me to go to sleep. Nobody pops out of the blue and reprimands you for staying up past your bedtime.

Again, if she can get into Temple, she may not be a genius, but she's no moron either. And they can afford it easily. They *Certainly* could have co-signed loans at the very least. Why didn't they?

I certainly would do whatever it took to help my granddaughter get into school. Even if I had to sell my house in retirement to do so.

And I'd be pissed like after drinking a six pack of Coors at my son, and wondering where I screwed up, or if his new wife is an expensive, controlling witch trying to break his relationship with his daughter.

Good for Grandpa, he's old school. Family First.

Call it Crazy says

The parents responsibility for schooling ends at High School graduation. College is optional for everyone! It's not mandatory for a parent to pay for a college education.

turtledove says

I hope to be in a position to pay for my kids' college educations, but there are strings attached. They have to be good students; they have to have a solid plan on how their studies will translate into a job that will enable them to support themselves; they have to make responsible life choices.

thunderlips11 says

Damn right as to giving her ideas. If I paid for my son's education, and he refused to pay for his daughter's - my grandchild's - I'd seriously consider disowning his ass.

I paid and am paying 100% for all of my kids college education. I don't see it as a choice. They look at the parents finances to determine wether or not the student receives any aid. If you don't qualify for any aid, and the parent refuses to pay the tuition, your kid is at a disadvantage.
I tell my kids I will pay for their college, they pay for their kids college, and it carries on generation after generation. The result, each generation receives education, and eventually ends up paying too.
Requiring parents to pay is not right.

It sounded like it was a contract in the divorce settlement that her tuition and college expenses would be paid for by the divorcing parents. They agreed to it then. Since there were no other conditions placed, then the child apparently has the right to choose her own school whatever the costs.

The grandparents are just facilitators in a side ring of the circus.

Mostly, these things are about the pettiness of the new wife(spouse) who rags on the husband to cut off the old wife and child. He may be a creep, but he also might be squeezed in a no win situation by the new ball and chain.

turtledove says

At what age do kids become adults now a days?

I think it's currently at 30, but some Millennials are trying to push it to 35.

thunderlips11 says

So let me get this straight. Parents make just shy of $300k between them, Father's College and private grammar school Education was paid for 100% by Grandpa, his father.

Yup. It is called freedom. It is life-if grandparents feel so strongly-they should pay.

While I might be having kids soon-am already planning to put away something in a college fund. But what if child decides he/she wants to study in Europe at the highest priced university and take a major in Pop Music. Should I be forced to pay quarter a million dollars just because I make a decent amount?? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Peter P says

Why would anyone want to have kids?

I'm certainly not having any.

Rin says

Peter P says

Why would anyone want to have kids?

I'm certainly not having any.

Neither am I!

While it's awesome that some parents pay for their kid's college, others don't want to. I don't think that they should be forced to do so.

Everyone has the right to live their own life and make their own choices... unless they live in New Jersey. Maybe that's why the taxes are so high - so they can pay lawmakers handsomely to pass more stupid-ass laws?

Call it Crazy says

Kids need to be taught early on (by their parents) that there is no "free lunch". If they want something, they're going to need to work for it or put together a plan of how they will accomplish that goal. It's the PARENTS responsibility/job to make the kids productive adults and not "entitled" leeches.

I would imagine kids who do go through college without any help from parents will be more successful in life. They are highly motivated, focused and goal oriented. My fear is they could drop out of college.

turtledove says

At what age do kids become adults now a days?

at the age when SS kicks in. The parents pass the torch to the govt.

Conclusion:

Father is not free not to pay for college since he signed a legal agreement during his 1997 divorce to pay for it.

Father is teaching his daughter hypocrisy, in that's it was okay for him to get free college from HIS father, but he feels no obligation to pay for his daughters.

bgamall4 says

The problem with the law is that married parents don't have to pay after age 18 yet divorced parents in NJ have to pay. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Doesn't matter Bgamall, college is stipulated in the 1997 divorce agreement.

Furthermore, NJ has that law to stop people from favoring their new spouse and children over kids from a former marriage.

By the way, dad makes six figures, so grandpa paying for college for dad didn't do him any harm as to his financial future. He's either whipped by his new spouse or a hypocritical bastard louse, one or the other

thunderlips11 says

college is stipulated in the 1997 divorce agreement.

Furthermore, NJ has that law to stop people from favoring their new spouse and children over kids from a former marriage.

I'm so glad that I'm not having any kids.

Just this statement above, will allow me to get a few more nights of rest.

Rin says

I'm so glad that I'm not having any kids.

Well, that's our loss, I mean that without sarcasm.

Some people have kids and treat them like shit, which is a danger to society. They use "Freedom" as an excuse to avoid their responsibility, while accusing their 19-year old kid of not being responsible.

Even if he never had anything about college in his divorce agreement, he'd still be a "Free" Piece of Shit.

thunderlips11 says

bgamall4 says

The problem with the law is that married parents don't have to pay after age 18 yet divorced parents in NJ have to pay. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Doesn't matter Bgamall, college is stipulated in the 1997 divorce agreement.

Furthermore, NJ has that law to stop people from favoring their new spouse and children over kids from a former marriage.

By the way, dad makes six figures, so grandpa paying for college for dad didn't do him any harm as to his financial future.

The only real solution to this mess is to make all education completely free. Its free until high school, why not until PhD's.? College is the new high school.

Call it Crazy says

Ahhh... the poor Princess not only wanted college paid for, but she also felt she was "entitled" to a new car!

Psyched! I'm getting more and more elated with this thread.

After listening to all that guilt tripping, by those around me, telling me that I should want to settle down and have kids, and now, I feel 100% vindicated :-) !

elliemae says

Maybe that's why the taxes are so high - so they can pay lawmakers handsomely to pass more stupid-ass laws?

NJ has a huge public employee retirement entitlement obligation. That's why taxes are so fucking high there, especially property taxes, which are insanely high there.

Call it Crazy says

I found out through Twitter that my daughter was attending Temple [University in Philadelphia]. Yes, Twitter. And now, even after her mother and I agreed that if Caitlyn transferred to a state college we would help her financially (even though she hasn’t spoken to us in almost two years), a judge is telling me that if my daughter wants to go to Temple, she can go

Temple is in the middle of North Philadelphia, more or less, the worst part of town ... urban blight all around.

Are her parents also paying for a security detail, so that she doesn't get raped or knifed on the way to classes?

I hope to pay for all three of my kids to attend college. Or arrange it another way. Currently my best idea is this: send the wife for her PhD since she's teaching college anyway, and then have her get a good professor job at a decent school. Then my kids can go there for free! It's a lot of things to hold together, but I believe the plan is solid. With the way tuitions are rising, paying for three kids through uni is going to be impossible otherwise.

I had to pay my own way through college an ended up with a lot of debt tha limited my options and took a while to pay back. I hope my kids will be more fortunate.

Rin says

Call it Crazy says

Ahhh... the poor Princess not only wanted college paid for, but she also felt she was "entitled" to a new car!

Psyched! I'm getting more and more elated with this thread.

After listening to all that guilt tripping, by those around me, telling me that I should want to settle down and have kids, and now, I feel 100% vindicated :-) !

Aren't you glad your parents thought differently?

Strategist says

Aren't you glad your parents thought differently?

My parents also had my sister, and lived to regret it. If you want a media facsimile, think of Rosie O'Donnell but on steroids (as well as coke and heroin).

Just because they won the lottery and had a future Leonardo DaVinci or Ben Franklin, as a son, doesn't mean that it's a reproducible phenomena, as my sister has proven.

Call it Crazy says

Quigley says

I had to pay my own way through college an ended up with a lot of debt tha limited my options and took a while to pay back. I hope my kids will be more fortunate.

Send them to community college the first two years. 1) It's less costly and they can take all the basic courses. 2) You'll find out if they are "serious" about getting an education and you'll spend less money "finding out", since almost half drop out, compared to the bigger bucks of a 4 year school.

I may do that if the first option doesn't pan out. Or at least a state school. My kids are all really smart, though, so I'll probably have to get them through at least a bachelors, if not med school or graduate school.

Rin says

After listening to all that guilt tripping, by those around me, telling me that I should want to settle down and have kids, and now, I feel 100% vindicated :-) !

Only now?

I may get goat kids though, if I buy a farm.

Rin says

Strategist says

Aren't you glad your parents thought differently?

My parents also had my sister, and lived to regret it. If you want a media facsimile, think of Rosie O'Donnell but on steroids (as well as coke and heroin).

Just because they won the lottery and had a future Leonardo DaVinci or Ben Franklin, as a son, doesn't mean that it's a reproducible phenomena, as my sister has proven.

Only those who are already born support not having kids.

Strategist says

Only those who are already born support not having kids.

Of course, I have mine, so screw you. :-)

Strategist says

Rin says

Strategist says

Aren't you glad your parents thought differently?

My parents also had my sister, and lived to regret it. If you want a media facsimile, think of Rosie O'Donnell but on steroids (as well as coke and heroin).

Just because they won the lottery and had a future Leonardo DaVinci or Ben Franklin, as a son, doesn't mean that it's a reproducible phenomena, as my sister has proven.

Only those who are already born support not having kids.

My sister, already born, has a child so Rosie Jr is in place. And no, she's no future Marie Curie, I can tell you that.

Rin says

Only those who are already born support not having kids.

My sister, already born, has a child so Rosie Jr is in place. And no, she's no future Marie Curie, I can tell you that.

Rin, I will hold you responsible for putting an end to the human race.
Check this out.
"We need more babies"

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102257571

We just learned that the U.S. birthrate fell for the sixth straight year in 2013 to an all-time low.

Pardon me for sounding a bit alarmist, but this is really bad news for our economy, our society, and all of civilization.

sbh says

Can anything be supported or opposed by those who are not already born?

If you ask me, no.

But this also concerns the abortion debate! I am strongly pro-choice.

Strategist says

Pardon me for sounding a bit alarmist, but this is really bad news for our economy, our society, and all of civilization.

A global cap-and-trade birth permit program will ensure that child births occur in places that can most afford them.

sbh says

Strategist says

Only those who are already born support not having kids.

That's brilliant. Can anything be supported or opposed by those who are not already born? I tell ya, sometimes you really hit on all cylinders.

Good morning to you too, SBH. I see you are getting warmed up.

Strategist says

Rin, I will hold you responsible for putting an end to the human race.

Check this out.

"We need more babies"

You've got my niece, Rosie Jr, the Horsewoman of the Apocalypse. Don't worry about me, putting an end to the human race :-)

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

We just learned that the U.S. birthrate fell for the sixth straight year in 2013 to an all-time low.

Pardon me for sounding a bit alarmist, but this is really bad news for our economy, our society, and all of civilization.

Exactly! Who's going to pay for all us baby boomers in our retirement years?

It's all Rinn's fault.

Strategist says

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

We just learned that the U.S. birthrate fell for the sixth straight year in 2013 to an all-time low.

Pardon me for sounding a bit alarmist, but this is really bad news for our economy, our society, and all of civilization.

Exactly! Who's going to pay for all us baby boomers in our retirement years?

It's all Rinn's fault.

What are you talking about, I've got to pay taxes on that dividend income :-)

The arrangement between parents and children is a highly personal matter, but for children to expect that parents will pay no matter their talent, aptitude, work ethic, choice of major and school is just completely unjust and borders on delusion and parasitism. At the very least the parent should see the drive, desire and talent to perform in the classroom and expect that the child will be a professional student and do due diligence to perform on midterms/finals/projects/essays, etc.

Considering that most ppl are zombies anyways (just look at the current crop of smart phone users on the streets), won't much of the work be done by robots/expert systems in the future?

If so, then why have any kids at all?

Basically, the pro-kids crowd is saying that on the average, every other child will be some creative genius, who'll keep advancing society. Truth is that most ppl are a bunch of sycophantic idiots whose job it is, to be a b*tch for corporate America. Others, who're not employable, end up on something like the Jerry Springer show.

Rin says

won't much of the work be done by robots/expert systems in the future?

IMO, robots and artificial intelligence will replace 99% of all jobs in 20 years. Yep, computers can be creative too.

Call it Crazy says

McGarvey continues in the post, which she called “The Age of Entitlement”:

Note that there is no article about the daughter and grandparents' side of the story. They are keeping quiet, it is the parents that are making a stink.

CIC, they can complain all they want, it's in the Divorce Agreement. On top of that, there's a reason NJ law (along with dozens of other states) are this way. It's because too many Yuppies tried to get out of paying for the kids of their first marriage, sometimes because they were self-centered, sometimes because their new spouses whipped their weak asses.

dublin hillz says

The arrangement between parents and children is a highly personal matter, but for children to expect that parents will pay no matter their talent, aptitude, work ethic, choice of major and school is just completely unjust and borders on delusion and parasitism. At the very least the parent should see the drive, desire and talent to perform in the classroom and expect that the child will be a professional student and do due diligence to perform on midterms/finals/projects/essays, etc.

There's no reason to doubt in this case, that the daughter was a good student. She got good grades at the CC and was accepted into several decent schools, including Temple.

Nor was she a drug addict, a bum, an alcoholic or had repeat problems with the law.

The only thing the mother can dig up to defend herself is that they had some problems with chores and the girl may have underage drunk a few times. That's hardly unusually bad or odd behavior in a 19-year old.

The parents didn't even want to pay the CC tuition, which was nothing - they had to be sued for that, too.

The article above notes "3 Courses AND a F/T Job during the summer" but doesn't say who wanted what when. It seems to me that the parents were trying to get her to quit school. 3 Courses in a short summer session is a pretty big load, plus an F/T job, seems a little much.

CallItCrazy says

I understand that after she was kicked out of her Disney internship, a program she participated in to help prepare for college, she was upset and angry at the rules her mother and I set for her. She was kicked out of the program for underage drinking, and so we had to set boundaries.

First, note, prepare for College. She would have been 17-18. This wasn't at College, but when she was in HS or had just graduated.

We're only getting the parents' side of the story, which seems highly inflated.

I doubt she showed up drinking on the job. More likely, she went away somewhere, maybe to Disney itself, the kids brought some Coors back to the dormitories outside work hours, she drank and got caught because Disney's zero tolerance policies. Big Deal!

Because of this one incident, the parents don't wanna pay for college? Gimme a break.

Tell me the father didn't sneak a beer at some point between 17-21. Did grandpa nix paying for his whole college experience?

Parents are either controlling, but I suspect, cheap Yuppies. When you go away to college for 4-years, there are no chores and no curfews. Why wouldn't they let her go away to start with? Because of one incident that happened during or just after HS? PFffft, I say, PFFt.