patrick.net

Peter P says

Why buy a hydrogen car when gas is so cheap?

I don't get that argument at all.

First of all, why is it so important to try to force people into a mode of transporation that they can't afford, and the creaters of goods and services can no longer deliver goods to market at affordable prices?

It all just seems so counter productive. If the price of gas is some canny in the coal mine that you use to guage the viablitity of alternate energy. Then I think our whole thought process is fundementally flawed.

If we can put a computer in our pocket that can essentially replace every electronic device ever known to man for less than a half full cart of groceries from your average grocery store. Then goddamn it we can damned well create alternate energy solutions to power the world in the future.

But why don't you Clowns get real with your selves and stop lying to your selves. There's nothing about alternate energy in the empetus to impose such draconian modes of transporation on people. It's soley about rentseeking and creating more poor, and yet another way to guage the eliteist versus the poor schmucks who will be ridding the piss puddle riddled expesive choo choo trains. While assholes like you zip right along on empty highways in your fugly $75,000 high tech AMC Pacer.

I bet had Obama gave just half of the money, that he gave private start ups like Solydra to scientists working in Government institutions. We would probably have a viable cheap solution by now.

Green Energy needs to be sexy, like a woman. It needs to have curves and appeal. It needs to be so sexy that every one in Ameirca wants to get up in that Ass and pussy fuck it where they exhaust should be but is not. We're a nation of cheap bastards and skin flints, there was just a report that people have quit going to the theaters because of high movie ticket prices. That had more to do with "The Interview" being released going straight to internet by passing the theatres altogether. But I don't want to get off topic.

Alternative energy vehicles need to be affordable, they shouldn't things that only Ellen Degeneris can afford to buy a creepy pop senstaion punk Idol for his 18th birthday. Everyone should be able to afford them. The Beiber couldn't afford the one he got at that time.

Instead what we've got. Green energy is like this huge ugly bloody dick, that the Liberals is trying ram down eveyrone's throat, through the gag reflexes through cries for help through the resistance.

It's not sexy it's a brutall gang rape assault.

The Gas cronies have to manipulate the world crude supply and create a gas supply glut so fucking big, that it collapsed under the sheer weight of all of the price manipulation. Green energy can not Is Not standing on its own because there has not been an honest sincier effort to develop it in over 20 years or more. The whole impetus behind the green greed movement is maximizing profits and nothign else. Nothing what so ever that's IT.

Just a big huge Johnson like Anthony Weiner's junk being sexted to everyone in the world trying to force them to buy into that gross sad pathetic diplay of dishonesty and profit motived politics.

Providing electric ain't the problem. The problem is people's sense of entitlement for cheap, on-demand personal transport vehicles.

thunderlips11 says

The problem is people's sense of entitlement for cheap, on-demand personal transport vehicles.

And the problem with that IS?

Way to slime your Liberal filth all over an innocuous word like "Entitlement" to make it dirty, filthy and shame worthy because people need to get around in a modern civilization. It's not like we all have 10 acres of land to live off of.

People don't have a demand for "ON DEMAND" vehicles, half as much as people are expected to be a point A and point B at precise times. The fabric of civilization depends on it.

CaptainShuddup says

And the problem with that IS?

It's unsustainable and one of, if not THE, source of Global Warming. Not to mention the source of constant screwing about in the Middle East and Saudi-financed terror.

Those Madrassahs in France, Germany, Indonesia, Nigeria, etc. aren't funded by Camel Washes.

CaptainShuddup says

Way to slime your Liberal filth all over an innocuous word like "Entitlement" to make it dirty, filthy and shame worthy because people need to get around in a modern civilization. It's not like we all have 10 acres of land to live off of.

Commute from your comfortable, densely-set apartment building.

CaptainShuddup says

People don't have a demand for "ON DEMAND" vehicles, half as much as people are expected to be a point A and point B at precise times. The fabric of civilization depends on it.

Buses and Subways and Trams, how 90% of the world gets to work on time, how 90% America got to work on time before Levittown.

All this hydrogen and rare-earth metal-based battery powered car nonsense is a desperate attempt to visualize a future where privately owned vehicles are still viable.

thunderlips11 says

Providing electric ain't the problem. The problem is people's sense of entitlement for cheap, on-demand personal transport vehicles.

It's not "entitlement" when people are paying for the goods/service out of their own pockets. You know what else? the on-demand personal transport vehicle will soon come with its own driver: the self-driving car! The Keynesians can cry about the collapse of taxi per mile charge! while people go about getting more businesses done and more entertainment enjoyed.

There was a time when 90% of the world did not have internet access either. Comes to think of it, that was the golden days when the average intelligence on the internet was a lot higher. LOL.

Reality says

It's not "entitlement" when people are paying for the goods/service out of their own pockets.

The pitiful gas taxes and vehicle registration charges don't come within a fraction of what it costs to operate POVs. From military intervention to highways to road enforcement to lethal crashes to the Environmental Damage.

I won't even think of harder to measure damage like economic opportunity costs from lost free time stuck in traffic, economic damage from injuries sustained in vehicles by occupants, pedestrians, bicyclists, etc.

Reality says

There was a time when 90% of the world did not have internet access either. Comes to think of it, that was the golden days when the average intelligence on the internet was a lot higher. LOL.

Thing is, internet access and servers costs next to nothing to operate in terms of electric compared to countless POVs.

I can tell from the insults and screaming, that life without POVs is very scary.

Reality says

There was a time when 90% of the world did not have internet access either. Comes to think of it, that was the golden days when the average intelligence on the internet was a lot higher. LOL.

+1
Me too!!!!!

Diesel is the safest technology.

Hydrogen is extremely dangerous to store and transport.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2010/08/hydrogen-explosion-deals-blow-to-fuel-cell-advocates.html

Peter P says

Reality says

There was a time when 90% of the world did not have internet access either. Comes to think of it, that was the golden days when the average intelligence on the internet was a lot higher. LOL.

+1

Me too!!!!!

Yep. And Austrians back in the 90s still swapped Newsletters.

That was my attempt to parody the early days of internet...

Sorry Peter, didn't grasp it. I do really miss the burning torches and gif animated mailboxes. Or waiting for an hour to UUENCODE some naked picture of Samantha Foxx from the newsgroups.

Anyway, for Reality, the Cap'n and others...

Using LED lightbulbs and disconnecting the internet ain't shit. There's only one way to reduce dependence on foreign oil, and it ain't fracking.

thunderlips11 says

All this hydrogen and rare-earth metal-based battery powered car nonsense is a desperate attempt to visualize a future where privately owned vehicles are still viable.

You can tell by the infantile bawling every time this is mentioned. There is a tremendous sense of entitlement among fearful, cowardly people that they might have to walk somewhere, as humans have done for 150,000 years.

Why do some people get so upset about what somebody says? It's like Muslims pitching a fit when you draw Muhammed.

thunderlips11 says

It's unsustainable and one of, if not THE, source of Global Warming. Not to mention the source of constant screwing about in the Middle East and Saudi-financed terror.

Those Madrassahs in France, Germany, Indonesia, Nigeria, etc. aren't funded by Camel Washes.

Oh you're stuck in a loop again, you said cheap easy economical transportation. You didn't say it HAD to be gasoline powered.
What's the issue with trying to provide cheap green energy.

Though I'm quite certain you already have answered my question.

Gas bad, so punish all users of it. Elitist green energy for those that can afford it is awsome, and fuck anyone who can't afford a fucking twenty dollar chicken!

CaptainShuddup says

why is it so important to try to force people into a mode of transporation that they can't afford

No one is forcing anyone.

In fact, unlike Tesla's battery cars, and gasoline tax credits, the Federal credit for FCVs expired and was not renewed this year.

Hydrogen is the one clean technology that already has a large commercial and industrial base for production and is in use for applications besides passenger cars. And it is the only technology that is being adopted by the world's largest private automakers by their own choice.

thunderlips11 says

All this hydrogen and rare-earth metal-based battery powered car nonsense is a desperate attempt to visualize a future where privately owned vehicles are still viable.

YOu sound like the schmucks that convinced McDonald's to scrap their tried and true menu and business formula, to placate the fat shamers. Then after they dumped billions on rebranding them selves and putting on the front that they are Wholefoods kitchen, you folks still wont set foot in a McCafe on a bet. Even if you were paid to do it.

You people who harp your choo choo trains, that the rest of the world that has 500% more manufacturing than we do, and those trains actually take millions people a day because those millions of people have jobs to go to. But let's pretend for a moment that you can manage to McCafe America's mode of transportation and we build these trains to nowhere, to shuttle people dropped out of the job market, to take them to jobs that don't exist.

You'll be the last person riding on that train. The first son of a bitch that reclines his seat, and picks his toe nails, you'll be out of there faster than fresh salads on the McDonald's lunch menu.

I'm voting for Elizabeth Warren, because I want one (1) person to tell everyone what car they have to drive.

Private car ownership will always be viable. It just needs not be viable for everyone.

BTW, self-driving vehicles will make car ownership a moot point for most people.

John Bailo says

No one is forcing anyone.

In fact, unlike Tesla's battery cars, and gasoline tax credits, the Federal credit for FCVs expired and was not renewed this year.

Don't get me wrong John I'm not riling against hydrogen or any alternative energy, and I'm rooting for you and every article you post. You've posted the most viable solutions to date. I'm routing for Hydrogen.

The problem I have with a lot of other Green hypocrites is the insincerity they are about it. I'm starting to understand, it has less to do with actually moving people around the country effectively as much as it is they want to dictate how they move, if they move at all. And they want to dictate that everyone should stay put and live in the loft of the company they work at, and eat at the restaurant down stairs. They should never have a reason to leave their block.

These people are the last assholes anyone should be taking seriously. I'd fucking drill every inch of Alaska and every wetland, for I'd go along with those petty schmucks.

They really live with their heads well planted firmly up their fucking assholes. The fucking nerve, "You should work in your densely populated apartment buildings neighborhood." What a load of fucking horse shit, these people are lala land. You have to go to where the jobs are, I don't get to dictate where the offices of my next job will be.

You'd think if they really felt that way, they would be more practical about it, and suggest... "More companies should be made to allow employees to work from home" especially if there is no real benefit for them being on location, especially if those jobs that can be done anywhere.

People have to move and be mobile, our society is not set up for high speed rail, there just not enough manufacturing or densely populated jobs to support it.

The only way it could work if the government made every company relocate to a centralized location that would serve as a work hub. That every city in America then had high speed rail networks that brought everyone from other locations to that work hub center.

I mean just imagine a high speed train that ran from LA to NYC for a minute.

What do you suppose would happen?

I'll tell them because they are too fucking stupid to figure it out on their own. People who lived in LA would take a 4 hour high speed train to NYC to work and people in NYC would take the train in the opposite direction to work in LA.
What fucking benefit would that even serve?

OR you would just be bringing more people into cities that already has high unemployment. They would end up stuck and can't afford a ticket back.

They didn't think anything further than the idea of a goddamned Choo Choo train.

Say weren't the Natzis big on making people take the train?

HydroCabron says

I'm voting for Elizabeth Warren

Well if you want "Waste" your vote go right on ahead.

Peter P says

BTW, self-driving vehicles will make car ownership a moot point for most people.

You mean like the taxi did?

CaptainShuddup says

Peter P says

BTW, self-driving vehicles will make car ownership a moot point for most people.

You mean like the taxi did?

Taxis are no good because:

1. it takes too long to find one
2. the drivers are unfriendly and aggressive
3. I hate reaching for my wallet when seated

Uber has solved many of these problems. Self-driving "taxis" can only be better.

thunderlips11 says

There's only one way to reduce dependence on foreign oil, and it ain't fracking.

Since you don't use Oil, then you don't have any skin in the game.

FWIW, I'm quite fine with "CHEAP" foreign Oil. I mean I'm sorry if that fucks with your portfolio but I don't really give a good greasy FUCK. Find a new thing to manipulate, you're a smart guy... you think!

I'm a foreign Oil junkie and I'm not ashamed of it.

It's just a dirty word Liberals smeared on it, to make people feel guilty for doing what is just natural.

Peter P says

1. it takes too long to find one

2. the drivers are unfriendly and aggressive

3. I hate reaching for my wallet when seated

You think that there's going to be two autocars for every person on the street?

You think that you wont get your head cracked open a time or two after waiting a half hour for a car, and go to get in one, but the guy behind felt that twenty minutes was long enough to wait?

You don't think Google wants to put these cars out for free do you?

Peter P says

Taxis are no good because:

1. it takes too long to find one

2. the drivers are unfriendly and aggressive

3. I hate reaching for my wallet when seated

Uber has solved many of these problems. Self-driving "taxis" can only be better.

In theory, once you eliminate the Taxi driver, the costs for renting a vehicle for short hops, goes down dramatically.

And in this case, the dispatcher is your own phone, almost like ZipCars but cheaper, as these cabs will be everywhere.

Now, they need to find a way to disinfect the vehicle, if the prior passenger puked on the upholstery.

Rin says

Now, they need to find a way to disinfect the vehicle, if the prior passenger puked on the upholstery.

There could be sensors or surveillance cameras. The vehicle will be taken offline and the cost will be charged to the passenger.

I bet you guys thought the dystopian hightech world in Judge Dread was awsome didn't you? I though it was depressing.

CaptainShuddup says

Oh you're stuck in a loop again, you said cheap easy economical transportation. You didn't say it HAD to be gasoline powered.

What's the issue with trying to provide cheap green energy.

Though I'm quite certain you already have answered my question.

Gas bad, so punish all users of it. Elitist green energy for those that can afford it is awsome, and fuck anyone who can't afford a fucking twenty dollar chicken!

There's no elitism. Public Transportation for all is about as democratic as it gets.

Electric Cars need rare materials and create a great deal of pollution. To say nothing of the ludicrous amounts of extra energy we'd need to create. People will be charging them primarily after the sun goes down. And where are you gonna dump all those lead-acid or Cadmium based batteries?

CaptainShuddup says

YOu sound like the schmucks that convinced McDonald's to scrap their tried and true menu and business formula, to placate the fat shamers. Then after they dumped billions on rebranding them selves and putting on the front that they are Wholefoods kitchen, you folks still wont set foot in a McCafe on a bet. Even if you were paid to do it.

The make-you-fat shit in McDonalds isn't the 1/2 ounce of meat, but the carb-laden bun, special sauce, fake cheese, potatoes, and sugar in the soft drink.

BTW, I DO eat McD's occasionally anyway.

The rest of your post I completely missed the point on. Only thing I agree with is the death penalty for seat recliners, but that's really confined to planes.

CaptainShuddup says

I bet you guys thought the dystopian hightech world in Judge Dread was awsome didn't you? I though it was depressing.

Futuristic literature is necessarily dystopic. This is because a story needs conflicts and drama. I am sure the high-tech future will be just fine, if you play it right.

CaptainShuddup says

Say weren't the Natzis big on making people take the train?

The people who invented the Volkswagen - "People's Car" - and built the Autobahn?

CaptainShuddup says

Since you don't use Oil, then you don't have any skin in the game.

I don't use oil? Okay.

CaptainShuddup says

FWIW, I'm quite fine with "CHEAP" foreign Oil. I mean I'm sorry if that fucks with your portfolio but I don't really give a good greasy FUCK. Find a new thing to manipulate, you're a smart guy... you think!

I'm a foreign Oil junkie and I'm not ashamed of it.

It's just a dirty word Liberals smeared on it, to make people feel guilty for doing what is just natural.

Shit, I love Gazprom. What a bargain. Euroweenies will be doubling down on gas since they won't mine coal, won't build more nukes, and wisely won't get addicted to middle eastern oil.

The cost of owning a Toyota Corolla, assuming 15K/mon in miles, a $16K sticker, and maintenance of $7K over a 15 year span ~29mpg with $3 gas is about $5 per day.

So in effect, if ppl only need short hops, this idea will easily pay for itself.

Rin says

The cost of owning a Toyota Corolla, assuming 15K/yr in miles, a $16K sticker, and maintenance of $7K over a 15 year span ~29mpg with $3 gas is about $4 per day.

So in effect, if ppl only need short hops, this idea will easily pay for itself.

We have already replaced our second car with Uber/Lyft. The cost of owning a car is closer to $500-$1000/month.

An automated road network can have dramatically improved throughput. Imagine a world without stop signs or traffic lights. Cars can somehow time intersection crossings perfectly.

jazz music says

Hindsight reveals that we the public got conned into starry-eyed complacency by the constant harping about the future as presented by LA Times cartoons, Monsanto and Disney, General Electric ads and others too while those companies quietly raked in 10s of billions.

Speak for yourself.

I live in a domed city and drive a flying car.

jazz music says

Peter P says

the high-tech future will be just fine

Hindsight reveals that we the public got conned into starry-eyed complacency by the constant harping about the future as presented by LA Times cartoons, Monsanto and Disney, General Electric ads and others too while those companies quietly raked in 10s of billions.

You just have to play it right.

Rin says

The cost of owning a Toyota Corolla, assuming 15K/mon in miles, a $16K sticker, and maintenance of $7K over a 15 year span ~29mpg with $3 gas is about $5 per day.

So in effect, if ppl only need short hops, this idea will easily pay for itself.

15k a month in miles? I think you mean a year otherwise thats 180k a year times 15 years is 2.7 million miles. That's one hell of a corrolla. Even at 15k a year for 225k total I come up with $8.,50 a day. I really question 7k in maintenance for 225k. I do all my own wrenching and I'm not sure I could keep it down to that. Pay a garage it will be more than 7k.

Where is insurance in your calculations?

Rin says

The cost of owning a Toyota Corolla, assuming 15K/mon in miles, a $16K sticker, and maintenance of $7K over a 15 year span ~29mpg with $3 gas is about $5 per day.

So in effect, if ppl only need short hops, this idea will easily pay for itself.

No way.

The worst car insurance you can buy will still cost $3 per day. Add in a gallon a day of gas, and you're at $6 per day without even considering taxes, maintenance, license fees, or depreciation.

It's extremely difficult to get your overall vehicle spending under $0.30 per mile.

jazz music says

Highly paid professionals, merchant caste, upper class, and wealthy will have a wide selection of pricier car choices to advertise their higher status--when desired--with amenities; human concierges, visual style, comfort, speed, even preferential treatment in traffic by the system itself.

They can even have their own private vehicles, stocked with their favorite drinks and trinkets. There will still be car ownership, but it will be a niche market.