patrick.net

Sowll says a license in NY is 500k. Crony Capitalism.

It's obvious that most of you commenting have never used Uber. It's great to have this as one of the options. I've canceled an Uber ride in favor of a taxi, but I have also taken an Uber ride because there were no taxis around. Also, no money changes hands. If anyone is going to argue over price, they need to do that with Uber, not the driver, thunderlips. I also know three Uber, Sidecar, Lyft drivers. The number one complaint is roofied and drunk AND extremely racist passengers. But most of their passengers are amazing.

thunderlips11 says

This is so silly. Uber is a few more crimes away from disappearing - or a big insurance claim away from disappearing.

What do you think Allstate and State Farm are going to do when an Uber Driver causes a massive 10-car pile up with fatalities and permanent injuries? Pay millions out because the Uber Driver Joe Blow had a $150/month, typical non-commercial car insurance coverage on their 2008 Altima? Hell no.

I'm pretty sure their drivers signed away any rights to anything, and are solely responsible for their driving and their car.

curious2 said: Public transit agencies could contract with Uber for off peak hours.
Did you catch this article in today's Chronicle? How about "peak hour" expresses? Looks like a couple of companies are making a go of it.
Chariot’s new feature, Roll with Chariot, allows riders, in a way, to create their own transit routes... On the left side of the curve is Muni, he explained: Low dollar, high time commitment, fixed route. On the other side, Uber and services like it, which are pricier — especially during commute-time fare surges — but faster and don’t follow a set route.
He shaded in his target market, the middle.
“We’re creating the best fit route,” Vahabzadeh said.

EBGuy says

Did you catch this article in today's Chronicle?

I hadn't seen that, so thanks for the link. The article says that "the new shuttle services, charging between $3 and $6 per ride, cater to people who want to sidestep the sights, smells and slowness of Muni but don’t want to pay top dollar for a cab." The average Muni ride costs over $6 before subsidies bring the fare down to around $2, so these services are operating profitably for less than the real cost of Muni.

anonymous says

Where in the article does it say anything about operating at a profit and how did you come to that conclusion?

The article doesn't say anything about profit, and elsewhere you have a good point about the viability of start-ups operating in the red. I based the conclusion that they are operating profitably on several facts:
1) their costs are only marginally higher than a taxi company, but they can collect much higher total fares by carrying more passengers;
2) SF and many other places have a long track record of van sharing businesses operating profitably;
3) they are proliferating, as the sector attracts competitors.
The marketing fad perks (e.g., iced coffee delivered to your seat) might go away if they don't add enough value, but the underlying structure looks like a taxi or van-sharing business with added features that don't cost much or anything at all: crowd-sourcing routes, smartphone tracking, WiFi.

anonymous says

Competition aside how are these companies going to survive when the inevitable downturn comes?

Business cycles will probably continue, but this ride sharing model might endure due to inherent efficiencies. Meanwhile, PatNet readers waiting for the inevitable downturn begin to remind me of Charlie Brown's vigil for the Great Pumpkin: it's become such a long wait that even Patrick has tired of it and moved on, which might be the capitulation that signals the peak of the bubble.

Meanwhile, I imagine these services will set up as corporate shuttles, enabling even small companies to provide employees "free" rides like the big names (Google Bus, Yahoo bus, WhackyStartUpVan). They could put company logos in the windows, or stay discreet by disclosing their identity only via smartphone app to registered users. The resulting revenues would be more vulnerable to the business cycle, but the underlying model may prove as enduring as the venerable school bus.

Had a ride with an Uber guy once, he was driving a Prius.

Seems like a neat business idea. Drivers are just folks who just want to make extra income by using their own car.

i've used them many times and it seems that the majority of the drivers have a prius. maybe because they really care about being efficient because it comes off their bottom line.

the only thing you have to worry about is "surge pricing" where the ride costs 2x or 3x what it normally would because of a spike in demand, like on new year's eve.

classic example of entrenched interests making innovation and better service illegal in the name of "public safety" or some other bogus excuse.

It's a wonder that this scramble has not yet occurred.

The price for any sort of bulk real-time mapping data from Google is shocking. This price probably makes sense for Uber, if you combine the money saved paying Google, and the money they could make selling such data to others.

anonymous says

$50 billion

Roughly the valuation of Nissan or Honda Motors.
Makes sense to me.

Used Lyft yesterday. It was good.

Uber and Lyft have serious potential. I was reading that investors at these valuations have been protecting themselves with anti dilution provisions. They better hope that Uber has enough cash to get them to profitability, because if new investors have to come in later they will get rid of anti dilution provisions.

thunderlips11 says

That's a great angle as well - their employment status.

The Uber driver fits the classic description of independent contractor: he brings his own tools (the car) and has the option of taking or rejecting any specific piece work.

thunderlips11 says

There's a reason hackney drivers are licensed and have been for centuries, and why localities don't let anybody start driving people around. There's this idea that one day, some bored bureaucrat or politicians said, "I'm bored. I need to regulate some activity for fun. How about Post and Chaise drivers? Yes, Willoughby, let us draft some regulations lest we succumb to ennui."

The scheme is actually more nefarious than that: the owners of the cab companies were the ones who lobbied for the setting up of such commissions, in order to create a monopoly. Their fees are what created and pays for the salaries of the bored bureaucrats to begin with. What's happening now is that the cab company owners are screaming bloody murder because they are not getting their money's worth: the bureaucrats are forgetting that they are supposed to be the leg-breakers for the mob!

thunderlips11 says

There's also mentality involved: A Licensed Operator knows he's "In the System 100%", and generally avoids fighting customers and put up with whiny or trifling bullshit from them. An Uber Driver more often thinks they are just picking up passengers as a Free Citizen and as such are more likely to start fights over money and passenger attitude problems.

LOL. You must not have taken taxis often in big cities like NYC. Your constant fear of Free Citizens should prompt you to seek voluntary slavery somewhere. Your use of John Brown as your avatar, and Zhukov before that, show that you are just a fan of wanton blood-thirst, instead of any sense of liberty or freedom for anyone.

When you have rude treatment or worse from a cab driver, you go right to the PD with their cab number, and regulatory - not just corporate - events go into motion. Taxi Drivers don't want a bad record and don't want to pay civil fines. How about Uber?

Uber drivers' cars too have license plates. A driver review on Uber probably has far more effect on the driver's likelihood to pick up future rides than any police would get involved in mere "rude treatment" by a cabby.

You don't post truth. You post sewage. You lie, you misrepresent, you troll, and you derail threads. You're a disgusting little shit and you should have been terminated from this board years ago.

----------------

Someone is reflecting again

And look at you! Just like a little lab rat getting your little pepper all worked up over the mere thought of shit. They're pushing your buttons again!!!!!

Call it Crazy says

You don't post truth. You post sewage. You lie, you misrepresent, you troll, and you derail threads. You're a disgusting little shit and you should have been terminated from this board years ago.

No, you post sewage! You lie, you misrepresent, you troll, and you derail threads. You're a disgusting little shit and you should have been terminated from this board years ago.

Ha Ha Ha... Ha Ha Ha... Same to you and more of it!!!!! Ha Ha Ha... neener neener neener... I know you are but what am I????? BINGO!!!

Hey asswipe... you gonna have a sad because your crap shacks aren't covering their mortgages?!?!?! Ha Ha Ha Einstein... Ha Ha Ha...

RECOVERY
FORWARD

Some posters here have severe mental illness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-------------

"Some" posters, "here"?!!?

By some, you mean most, judging by all the diagnosis that you've dished out. And by here, you mean the internet discussion forum you live at all day, every day?

What does that say, about you!!!!?

http://techcrunch.com/2015/05/28/uber-new-hq/

Images detailing the design of Ubers giant new San Francisco corporate headquarters have emerged, showing what the new, two-building corporate campus should look like when it opens up in a few years. Occupying San Franciscos Mission Bay neighborhood, the new buildings should offer up more than 420,000 square feet of new office and retail space to the company.

anonymous says

The legislation marked the second consecutive loss for Assemblyman Adrin Nazarian, who carried a similar bill last year. The Los Angeles Democrat has complained that contracted drivers get a pass when other kinds of paid drivers -- taxis, buses, truckers and commercial pilots -- all submit to random drug testing.

B-bb-but, it's sharing, it's not like it's a job that people do to make money. They only drive to share costs with Uber and Lyft.

Uber adds cars to our roads. It was estimated that Uber has added 15 THOUSAND cars to the steets of SF. A driver needs to drop someone off, wait around, drive around, and drive to the next customer, and so on. A normal driver drives from point A to point B and parks. Uber and their ilk are INCREASING the strain on road infrastructure and emitting more carbon into our atmosphere. For these reasons, they need to be taxed to cover the associated costs. Maintaining roads and the air isn't free. Why should they hoard billions in profit while the public pays for the infrastructure and quality of life they destroy?

anonymous says

Uber still has to contend with:

I would not bet against them, as technology always wins. The taxi companies in the past had a monopoly and were overpriced because of that. Uber has crushed the monopoly that only benefited a handful, not the drivers.

I say bring Uber on and they will prevail, why you ask? glad you asked not so much about technology but because they have competitive advantage that is going to blow regular taxi companies into history.

Uber and Lyft tanking NYC taxi medallion pricing:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/03/upshot/new-york-taxi-medallion-prices-fall-again.html
New York Taxi Medallion Prices Fall Again

The average price of an individual New York taxi medallion fell to $840,000 in November, down 20 percent from its peak of $1.05 million in June 2013.

Competition from car-service apps like Uber and Lyft has pushed down medallion prices nationally; Boston and Chicago medallions have also experienced price declines of around 20 percent in recent months, along with sharp declines in transaction volume.

zzyzzx says

The average price of an individual New York taxi medallion fell to $840,000 in November, down 20 percent from its peak of $1.05 million in June 2013.

This is a very good thing! No stupid license to operate a cab should ever cost a million dollars. Those medallions are purely about preventing free market competition at the expense of the public. Uber is the cure.

Yeah, it's too bad we can't short taxi medallions!

It seems uber REMOVES cars from the road, not adds them.
If one uber does 20 rides in one day - then its one car driving 'all day' on the road.
If 20 riders take own car and no uber is used - then more distance is travelled because the in scenario above the uber driver can drop off faire#1 and make a pickup of #2 VERY CLOSE like next door to where he dropped off #1. So the total miles traveled is way less with uber.

Plus the parking issues are non existent. How much 'driving around looking for parking' is eliminated with uber? 100% of it if you use them. thats a lot of traffic.

“It’s totally frozen,” Mohammad Kamran, a taxi medallion broker in Chicago, said of that city’s medallion market. “I have offers from people who want to sell their medallions for one-sixty, one-fifty, but there is no lending.”

Conditions are similar in Boston, which has had only a handful of medallion sales in recent months in the range of $500,000; prices there had peaked at $700,000.

“Nobody wants to buy now,” said Lew Snapper, a broker in New England who says he has not sold a medallion in over a year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/upshot/new-york-city-taxi-medallion-prices-keep-falling-now-down-about-25-percent.html?abt=0002&abg=0

Its really amazing how the smartphone is changing society.
uber,airbnb, tinder, grinder?ha, etc.
just for maps and finding directions alone that is huge. and the phones have only been around like since 07 right?
its really an outrage how the governments can charge 1m for a business license in NYC. That is really despicable of the democrats.
we should all be able to do whatever we want like open a tienda outside your front door and sell drugs, liqour, whores, whatever u wan i gots it man.
thats true capitalism (just like mexico has -they have real freedom down there)
go uber go!

PockyClipsNow says

Its really amazing how the smartphone is changing society.

uber,airbnb, tinder, grinder?ha, etc.

I wonder if it's worth getting a smartphone just for tinder?

PockyClipsNow says

“It’s totally frozen,” Mohammad Kamran, a taxi medallion broker in Chicago, said of that city’s medallion market. “I have offers from people who want to sell their medallions for one-sixty, one-fifty, but there is no lending.”

That means that the medallions are now worthless.

indigenous says

I would not bet against them, as technology always wins.

VHS beat Betamax.

MP3 is inferior to FLAC or CD, which is in turn inferior to DAT.

Plasma television is now extinct, with inferior LED and LCD products filling the market as we wait for OLED technology to become cost-effective, and it may not survive either.

HydroCabron says

VHS beat Betamax.

MP3 is inferior to FLAC or CD, which is in turn inferior to DAT.

Plasma television is now extinct, with inferior LED and LCD products filling the market as we wait for OLED technology to become cost-effective, and it may not survive either.

Yup and VHS beat the home film projector, and LED beat the Zenith, and MP3 beat 8 track. Technology always wins...

It seems that the ruling applies to just a single driver:

http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/17/so-about-that-uber-ruling/

I'll believe the US is committed to true property rights when it allows people to sell beverages, fruits, and snacks out of their garage and put a few tables and chairs out on the driveway. When it allows rural property owners to build reasonably sized packing and packaging plants freely. There's no reason why a 1000 acre farm can't have a 2000 sq ft cannery for niche products onsite that employs 2-10 people seasonally. Surprisingly, a lot of rural areas heavily restrict even the most basic of food prep outside narrow zones, which just so happen to be owned by one or two families.

thunderlips11 says

Surprisingly, a lot of rural areas heavily restrict even the most basic of food prep outside narrow zones, which just so happen to be owned by one or two families.

I think you found the problem right there. The law is used by some businesses to prevent competition by other businesses.

Congratulations to the San Francisco Bicycle Coalition on a unanimous SFMTA vote after overcoming allegedly deceptive last-minute opposition from Uber.

I think you found the problem right there. The law is used by some businesses to prevent competition by other businesses.

Contrary to popular meme, monopoly by definition is created by government.

Well, that's one way to combat Uber -- transit mall! Whodathunkit? Thanks for the link curious2.

http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/29/uber-france-leaders-arrested-for-running-illegal-taxi-company/

Uber France CEO Thibaud Simphal and Uber Europe GM Pierre-Dimitri Gore-Coty were both taken into custody today in Paris. The AFP first broke the news. The police started investigating Uber in November 2014 and raided its office in Paris in March 2015.

The two executives were charged with two different allegations. First, according to them, Uber is running illegal taxi operations. Uber has been struggling with this charge in many countries, starting with the U.S. In 2010, the company had to change its original name from UberCab to Uber as taxi companies didn’t want to create any confusion.

Second, the police said that Uber France is concealing digital documents. It’s hard to tell what the police was looking for when they raided the French office in March. But apparently, some documents are missing and slowing down the investigation.

Their actual crime is providing a better, cheaper service at the expense of entrenched interests who have great lobbying power.

Call it Crazy says

“If a potential passenger opened up the app and saw no cars around, she might take another cab service. But if she saw a cluster of cars seemingly milling around on the same street, she’s more likely to request a ride,” wrote Mr Rosenblat, whose research – funded by Microsoft – is published on Vice magazine’s Motherboard blog.

“What the passenger app shows can be deceptive,” writes Mr Rosenblat, who found that Uber drivers “across multiple forums discuss the fake cars they see on their own residential streets”.

Tee hee!

Uber is just the 21st Century of 19th Century Companies. No factory costs, exploit the hell out of seamstresses, pay jack shit.

We tried "Giging" before, it was called "Piecework" and it blew chunks.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/taxi-owners-resisting-uber-risk-mimicking-the-decline-of-another-ny-club-023547392.html

The club has a strictly limited membership, granting to those admitted the right to handle lucrative traffic flow. Though members must adhere to certain explicit obligations, the arrangement nurtures a thriving, protected industry until new technology threatens the cozy collective and brings tough competition through greater customer choice.

anonymous says

Uber said on Wednesday that it had raised $3.5 billion from Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund

Hadn't really used lyft until now, but that might be the impetus I need to start using lyft more. Provided, that I can actually consistently get a ride