patrick.net

HARM,
Sorry to nitpick (just a little), but it's ironic that the graphic for this thread was produced by one of the poster children of the Boomers, Steve Jobs.

Here's a sign that the housing bubble has truly jumped the shark. My wife and I were channel surfing the other night and came upon an ultra-lame show called "7th Heaven." For those of you who don't watch it (disclaimer -we really don't watch it - really), it's an incredibly insipid show from Aaron Spelling & co about a preacher and his family (7 kids, I'd imagine??) Well, turns out on this episode, one of the grown kids wants to start flipping homes with the mother as his business partner!! It's REALLY over now!

M. Cote,

In my experience, CA diesel is about the same price as normal unleaded. The current situation of low gas prices is probably an election year manipulation. I doubt it'll last.

I'm firmly behind the venerable Sir Cote' on this one.

You are all being fooled.

They want you to think that Less is More is counterrevolutionary. In fact, the simplicity movement is little more than a costume for the neo-rich.

If they can't keep the overpaid shackled in blatant consumer and real-estate debt, then convince them of the righteousness of purchasing premium status-symbols declaring their "non-consumption".

Prius, Whole Foods, Fair Trade Organics, Herbalaromahomeopathic snake oil.

Meanwhile the rich keep getting richer.

Meanwhile a farmer in Indiana, spreading "natural organics" across his grain field with his 25 year old diesel Deere wonders what all those crazy folks on the coasts are fussing about now.

"All Hail Eris!"

I've said it before here, but I'll say it again just for something to say.

I was shocked when I moved over here at the mass, nay - let's call a spade a spade - crass comsumerism over on this side of the pond.
And, more than the sheer waste of it all, it irked me that people who had all the trappings of the American Dream looked down on me as if I was inferior!

Me?
Who never had a dishwasher, microwave, tumble dryer, washing machine, cellphone, car, air conditioning, central heating, no TV for 10 years, or a Credit Card until I hit 40 (which coincided by me coming to the US).
Who grew enough veg in the back garden to effectively stop buying it at supermarkets, and have enough left over to hand over bushels of produce to my friends.
Who had the good sense to get a Hard Science degree in a country that, up until recently, had a free university education system?

No, apparently, over here that just makes you wierd.
By not consuming, you doom yourself to being a knit-your-own-muesli hippy-type in the Greatest Country in The World.

I know this by the glazed, incomprhending looks I used to get when pontificating upon the best types of salad potato to grow in clayey soils....or the most effective method for washing clothes in the bath...or the plethora of things you can do without a TV.

So, yes, bring on the plasma handcuffs. I'm in desperate need of Re-Education. My debt-to-income ratio is far too low.

...must......con...sume.....

:-)

alien Says:

Skibum,
Produced? Or merely paid for?

I meant made and spit out in the general sense of the word "produce." Obviously they hired an ad agency to write and direct that commercial. Anyway, Apple has lost all most all of its cool factor for me.

@skibum,

I love Big Boomer. There is no irony.

Citizen HARM

i'm not only postmodern but postconsumer as well... and a few other posts, come to think of it... post-political, post-industrial (will sit for cash)...

but the cost of velopedes is coming down...

“We’re gonna need a longer wall…”
hmm, yes, seems like it... where's that quote from? it has a certain resonance i like...

@Randy H,

Have you considered a job in our Ministry of Marketing (minishill)? We could use a man of your obvious talents.

It really depends on whether you're a corporate person or a real person.

A corporate person wants as much monetized production and consumption as possible, so it could make more money and pay bigger bonuses to the CEO.

A real person may want to partake in non-monetized utility producing activities like playing with their kids, enjoying a home cooked meal and not working for the asshole who only cares about the bottomline so he can get his big bonus at the end of the year.

Speedingpullet,

Do you still vegetable garden? Your description of backyard bounty is making me drool. All I got this year were some severely underperforming luffa, okras, tomatoes and yard long beans. I was expecting 5X greater productivity than I got.

DS: variation on a quote from Tom De Mulder (you don't know him), using the same phrasing as the more well-known Jaws quote "We're gonna need a bigger boat".

Speedingpullet, etc.: I'm feeling an urge to start planting in the back yard myself, and hoping it's not too late. I'm guessing some carrots, broccoli, spinach, onions, and Chinese cabbage.

and have enough left over to hand over bushels of produce to my friends.

1 U.S. bushel = 35.23907017 liters = 8 corn/dry gallons = 9.309177489 wine/liquid gallons

That's 32lb of Oats, 48lb of Barley, 56lb of Corn, 60lb of wheat or soybeans

Worse if you're talking about the Imperial Bushel:
1 Imperial bushel = 36.36872 litres = 8 Imperial gallons

Now, I grew up in rural, Southwest Ohio, where my grandmother had a 2.2 acre "garden", of which about 1/3 was corn. Yet we didn't have bushels of anything left over for anyone. In order to gain any real sustenance from this megagarden, my grandmother and aunts would meticulously set about canning, jarring and pickling everything and anything.

Mmmm. Nothing like canned spinach, frozen corn and pickled beets to satisfy that winter appetite.

No thank you. I guess I'll just keep shilling for evil corporate guy Big Bro. How dare companies like Monsantos dare try to improve yields of things people need to live. Bastards.

After my pension contrib, ROTH, 457 and other misc I’m left with about $1700 for rent, food, entertainment, etc.

Jon,

With cash flow like that, you could easily *qualify* for an NAAVLP for 25x your annual gross. If you curb the retirement "savings" (what a joke --every good citizen knows there's only one "retirement" vehicle: dirt & stucco), then you could easily go 40x.

I believe there's hope for you yet. Stay right where you are --D. Lereah & LAY will be arriving at your pathetic rental post-haste for a bubblenomics crash-course. Do not attempt to escape. Keep your telescreen tuned to Bubblevision (MSNBC) and stay put.

Citizen HARM

I just heard on the news today that the stock market is rallying because the cost of gasoline has gone down twenty five cents a gallon and people will now have more money to spend . Hooray! The economy is saved! I think I'll stop at Fry's on the way home and buy a new big screen high definition television with all the money I'm going to save!

Now let's think about this. The average car has a thirteen gallon gas tank. If you fill it up once a week you save a wopping $3.25 or $13.00 a month. Does anyone realy believe this is going to help?

Robert G. Allen, Carlton Sheets and Tony Robbins do not come cheap! However, if you are unable to raise the necessary cash, it’s no problem. During your re-education, you will learn how to extract money from dirt.

hey, it's no problem, just make a call and get the limit on your credit card/s raised:

"I am told XXX uses mob psychology to get you to sign up for paid seminars. One trick is to get everyone in the room to compete for a prize on who can raise their credit card limits the most. They literally have had attendees calling their credit card companies on a speaker phone in front of everyone. (You should not tell XXX’s people what your credit-card limit is. It’s absolutely no one’s business but yours.) This is apparently aimed at getting you to take out your credit card and get used to doing something with it during the meeting."

Jon said: "So how is 46k “low income”? I can only conclude you take away my retirement contribs and replace them with credit card debt, student loan debt and a car payment."

Hey! You're forgetting about drinking tabs, speeding and parking tickets and must have hangbags/sneakers/outfit.

You may also want to subtract car insurance (too expensive b/c of the speeding tickets).

Randy H said: "No thank you. I guess I’ll just keep shilling for evil corporate guy Big Bro. How dare companies like Monsantos dare try to improve yields of things people need to live. Bastards."

I don't think Monsanto does much with vegetables, even commercial vegetables. Also, most of the vegetable breeding nowadays goes to handling quality, appearance, disease packages (less of a concern for backyard gardeners than people who plant by the acre) and uniform ripening (so they can picked at the same time mechanically. For the backyard gardener, the older varieties tend to be tastier and better yielding. Most of the truck gardening and backyard gardening favorites are from 50 years or more back.

requiem Says:
DS: variation on a quote from Tom De Mulder (you don’t know him), using the same phrasing as the more well-known Jaws quote “We’re gonna need a bigger boat”.

oh, you're so clever...

How dare companies like Monsantos dare try to improve yields of things people need to live. Bastards.

they also try to breed seed stock that can't be re-used, i.e. has sterile offspring, so you will have to keep going back to them every year to buy more seed for next year's crop. not to mention the risks of potentially dangerous GM crops they keep working on and known lack of quarantine issues when testing them literally 'in the field'... maybe they are bastards! 8O

Glen, Randy,

HARM-X industries has already developed the perfect solution to the Whole Foods smug/organic/GMO controversey: Soylent Boomerâ„¢. It's 100% organic (aside from latent chemicals ingested/snorted/injected by the Boomers themselves), is non-GM, high in protein and goes great with Victory Gin! Try our new line of Ben & Jerry's*.

*Not ice cream, but the actual Ben & Jerry.

I dislike Whole Foods because I can't afford it and they don't focus on local produce (to cut down transportation inefficiencies). I also don't like the people they cater to - they tend to be consumerist, holier-than-thou and not particularly educated about the food they buy.

I prefer local farm markets. The produce are usually sustainably grown (often organic in fact if not in certification) and the money goes directly to support small farmers (there are some resellers so it pays to ask if the sellers grew the produce themselves).

It has also, however, been shown that the nutrient levels in organic produce are higher than in industrially farmed produce. Whether you are willing to pay the premium for this is a personal choice.

Whole Foods is just as profit driven as Monsanto. They have a strong incentive to cheat. Sure, studies may have shown that organic foods are healthier--but how do I know that the carrots I pick up at Whole Foods are actually grown in the same way as the carrots in the study? How can I verify it? Anyone can slap the word "Organic" on the label--the FDA is not likely to bat an eyelash. How does Whole Foods make sure that their suppliers don't cheat? Are the vegetables really healthier, or is it all in the mind of the consumer?

By the way, it is interesting to note that the source of the recent e coli outbreak was organically grown spinach. Contrary to popular belief, organically grown sprouts (not beef) have been shown to be the greatest source of e coli infections in recent years. I will take my chances with the trace chemicals in my "non-organic" food over the increased chance of a virulent bacterial or fungal infection. Especially when I can get my veggies for half the price.

(3) Ludditism: Organics make a big deal about being “Non-GMO.” Yet no one has ever shown GMO foods to be dangerous.

except for the tryptophan scare. well, alright, GM bacteria that make tryptophan as a metabolite... don't worry, it's as safe as nucular! or houses...

A wider debate needs to take place on whether the agribusiness model is actually sustainable. The “green revolution” of massively increasing yields since WW2 has been predicated on petrochemically-derived fertilizers and pesticides. This is arguably (extremely) unsustainable. There is also not a widespread understanding of how yields of biofuels rely on these petro-subsidies.

Well, unless you find a way to replace the massively increased yields, a lot more people will go hungry. It may be unsustainable, but until we find something better, we are probably stuck with the current agribusiness model.

and it has been shown that the bio-availability of nutrients is improved by cooking, which rather damages the raw food movement claims.

sometimes, but heating can also sometimes destroy or denature nutrients such as Vit C. it just depends...

@ Randy H:
(sigh)...I've told myself a thousand times not ot exaggerate. Make that 'punnets' then.
Put it this way, when confronted with yet another bag of tomatoes, potatoes or zucchini at the end of a productive summer, most of my friends would either bolt, or get the same look in their eyes as they would upon hearing thier grannie's hystrectomy story for the fourth time. Sometimes you just can't even give it away.

@Astrid:
Sadly, i'm not growing much at the moment. I had some heirloom tomatoes and peppers in pots earlier on this year, but due to my rush to the UK in june (when my mother passed ) they all died in 100 degree heat when the husband forgot to water them. He is not a garden-minded man.

Technically, I could start doing it again in the rental, but due to the fact that we don't know how long we'll be here, and our promise to the landlord to leave the place in the same condition we found it in (spotless), I'm reluctant to dig up the swathes of lawn that they so lovingly covered the back yard in.
Which is why I'm so intrested in buying a place with a bit of land, when we buy.
One day I hope to sell organic heirloom tomatoes and almonds from my own orchard at the Santa Monica Farmers Market. The husband thinks I'm on crack. But a girl's gotta dream, even if its only a methamphetmaine induced one... ;-)

@requiem:
My vegetable growing was done in a very nothern latitude, where we had real seasons, so I'm not sure when/what to grow over here.
But I'd reckon that most of the Brassica family (cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, brussell sprouts, etc..) would be a good thing to grow over the winter.
Carrots too, and potatoes, but I'd wait until the weather cools down a bit - almost said 'by the first frost' - but you don't get frosts in CA, do you? Potatoes grown in heat tend to bolt, give inferior yields and get blight more easily - they like cold damp climates. The BA after November would probalby be OK.

Maybe I should set up a gardening blog....:-)

I don't think organic or not organic makes any different in E Coli infections rates. Irradiation would help and so would careful washing immediately before consumption.

In any case, it's a bad idea to feed raw green leafy vegetables to the very young and the very old.

I'd heard, but don't know if its true, that the e.coli,/i> was due to the farmers using untreated cow manure on the spinach - its part of the normal intestinal fauna for cows.
Nice that its organic, but make sure to pasteurise to poop first before spraying, please.

Sorry for the italic snafu.

On a serious note, I don't think all concerns about GMO crops are entirely Luddite in nature or unfounded. As DS pointed out, the aim of the companies that produce GMOs (Monsanto, etc.) is not entirely benevolent/altruistic --"Terminator" seeds being a notorious example.

It's true that to some extent, humans have been tinkering with the gene pool for many centuries, through animal husbandry, selective breeding, horticulture cross-pollination, etc. However, prior to the genetics revolution, people have never produced an organism that could not have arisen independently through the natural processes (evolution or breeding). By splicing insect & plant DNA, or mammal and fish DNS, for example, we are taking selective breeding to a whole new level.

As DS also pointed out, the long-term risks of releasing GMO spores/seeds in the wild are essentially unknowable. We are tinkering with the very blueprint of life itself, and doing so without any viable controls or ability to quarantine the results. This is not to say that everything produced by GM methods is bad/harmful, just that we don't fully understand the risks of doing so, nor have a good containment strategy if things go seriously awry.

except for the tryptophan scare. well, alright, GM bacteria that make tryptophan as a metabolite… don’t worry, it’s as safe as nucular! or houses

Is this obscure reference to a 17 year old outbreak involving dietary supplements the best evidence that GMO foods are dangerous? If so, I feel even better about eating GMO foods.

Although some might dispute this point, I do not think dietary supplements should be considered "food." I agree that disclosure and transparency are good things--if people want to avoid GMO foods, they should have the ability to do so. But I don't think this story shows GMO foods to be dangerous any more than the recent e coli outbreak shows spinach to be dangerous.

Requiem,

Peas and fava beans would do well in CA's long winter. Onions and garlic can also be planted now for sprng harvest next year. Brussel sprouts, collard, kale are all good (I tend to find cabbages and broccolis to not be worth the effort, they're cheaper on sale), especially if you live in slightly colder areas where you'd get a couple frosts in late December - February. Beets and radishes are also good quick gratification crops.

Oh yeah, and lettuce and mixed salad greens!

Those "organic" farmers probably didn't bother to properly age the manure before spreading it on food crops. Properly composted manure will produce a lot heat and kill most of the bacteria.

HARM,

I am not going to defend Monsanto's business practices. I do think that they have every right to engineer proprietary seed products. However, to the extent that they engineer "terminator" seeds, which create negative externalities, they should be exposed to civil liability to their victims in order to assure that they are forced to internalize these negative externalities and to discourage the use of terminator seeds in the future.

Speedingpullet,

If it's any comfort, I've read that this wasn't a good year for tomatoes and peppers, so your husband may have just saved you some heartache latter on.

On the subject of Monsanto's business practices/ethics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto#As_Plaintiff

"In a high profile case in Canada, Monsanto Canada Inc. v. Schmeiser, went to the Supreme Court level, Monsanto sued an independent farmer, Percy Schmeiser, for patent infringement for growing genetically modified Roundup resistant canola. The case, begun in 1998, shaped up in the media as a classic David-and-Goliath confrontation, with Schmeiser as the wronged little guy, facing the implacable Big Corporation. Essentially, a part of Schmeiser's canola crop, grown from seed he had bred over many decades, was accidentally contaminated with Monsanto's GE canola, likely by seed escaping from passing trucks. The Supreme Court issued their decision in May 2004 and one can view the decision as a draw. The Court determined that Monsanto's patent is valid, but Schmeiser is not forced to pay Monsanto anything as he did not profit from the presence of Roundup Ready canola in his fields. This issue started with Monsanto demanding Schmeiser pay the $15/acre technology fee and in the end, Schmeiser did not have to pay. The court did not impose punitive damages on Schmeiser, as may have been expected in a patent infringement case, and the decision did not absolve Monsanto of responsibility for genetic contamination, or even consider that aspect. The case did cause Monsanto's aggressively litigious tactics to be highlighted in the media over the years it took to play out."

SP,

I really like Jon's $46K number for a BooHoo type unit of accounting. We even have a standard index to fall back on (rather than chasing after Ha Ha's wildly successful yet not sufficiently successful career).

Gosh, wouldn't Schmeiser have a counterclaim against Monsanto for polluting his seed stock?

Gosh, wouldn’t Schmeiser have a counterclaim against Monsanto for polluting his seed stock?

One would think so, but something tells me Monsanto's lawyers had deeper pockets than Schmeiser's.

A couple of class action lawsuits will bring Monsanto to its knees.