patrick.net

I agree with most of those 30 people and their reasoning.

I can relate to much of that.

Ironman says

rando says

I agree with most of those 30 people and their reasoning.

Which ones are the ones that are closest to yours?

Trump is a Corrective to American Culture’s Pathologies––“The preeminence of political correctness among the culture class indicates a momentous shift away from formerly prominent middle-class cultural values towards something entirely different. Even if Donald Trump were to accomplish little in his presidency, there is a hope that were he president, he could in some way alter that prevailing Washington/media culture, and set a new cultural tone.”

Trump Has Consistently Championed Protectionism––“On the two primary issues as to why I’m supporting Mr. Trump he has remained stunningly consistent.”

Trump is Not Rehearsed––“What you see is what you see, all the cards are on the table.”

Bush Was a Disaster and Obama Felt Like One––“All a president has to do is not to be a completely incompetent moron, do a deal here and there, and make sure the most obvious things get done. It is really, really easy. But we can’t get a candidate through the party system that is not a completely incompetent moron. And no, we don’t think Donald Trump is in it to help us. Or anyone else other than himself. But he has his pride.”

A Bernie Sanders Supporter Who’d Vote Trump Over Clinton––“While he might not deliver on his promises, he would certainly be a bull in the China shop of contemporary American politics, which has long needed destroying and rebuilding.”

Trump Could Make the Speech Police Go Away––“I’m in my early 30s and I grew up in San Francisco in a liberal home. And I have a very difficult time keeping up with all the various appropriate and inappropriate terms used to reference people and their causes.Trump makes brash and uncompromising statements about issues many people feel very passionate about.”

rando says

Trump is a Corrective to American Culture’s Pathologies

Yes, a bullshit artist who is lying constantly is just what the doctor ordered. It will be such a relief to see his setting an example to all the children and the rest of the world, as to what it means to be an great American.

rando says

I agree with most of those 30 people and their reasoning

I don't. I find, 2, 3, 5, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15, 20 and 26 all umm,...interesting.

Not to be told blatant lies to our face.

rando says

What Do Donald Trump Voters Actually Want?

Exleftie says

What Do Donald Trump Voters Actually Want?

It's obvious. They want all the descendants of slaves to be shipped back to Africa regardless of the fact that those descendants are naturally born American citizens. They want all the brown skins shipped back to Mexico, again regardless of citizenship. They want to continue to import brown skins to perform hard manual labor for slave wages, but they want each of those brown skins to go back to Mexico before they can set down roots or start organizing labor for better wages, working conditions, or citizenship. Then they want to replace those brown skins with fresh ones that are desperate for work and won't make any demands.

And they want to do all this while jacking off to how great America is because it was founded by Jesus, who despite being a Middle Eastern man in the Iron Age, did not have brown skin like almost all other Middle Eastern men in the Iron Age. Finally, they want to fantasize that some day, when all the darkies are gone and not getting government subsidies, they will be as rich as Donald Trump. Of course, that will never happen, but they sure have deluded themselves into thinking that prosperity for them is just around the corner.

Did I miss anything?

rando says

Trump is Not Rehearsed––“What you see is what you see, all the cards are on the table.”

I have mixed feelings on this part. In some ways, it is refreshing to hear things that have not been focus grouped so much. On the other hand, he is extremely repetitive in his speeches, so most of what he says is very rehearsed. He just adds a little bit here and there as time goes on. He has a very informal speech pattern that makes you feel like he's just shooting the breeze, but I think he's very careful about his messaging. On top of all of that, he is very precise about giving vague statements. That is, he intentionally says things that imply A, but could be interpreted as B. Then, he refuses to clarify, because he wants one group of people to think he meant A while credibly stating that he didn't say that when asked about it later. He's also a very practiced sales (con) man with a long ass history of misleading people. So, I agree that what you see is what you see, but in no way do I think he is WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get).

They want Trump to kill everybody they don't like and then grab pussy.

jazz music says

America want blacks all in prison slaving as god intended, that's why blacks exist here according to probably about half the whites.

Half? If you're going to indulge in anti-white racism, why not go all the way and accuse all whites?

I guess it feels better to just pick half, because then you can tell yourself you're not really racist. Like those bad white people.

I actually want what Ross Perot and Raulph Nader promised they would do. When they were running on every crazy idea from everything Donald Trump has been saying since 1985.

Psoriasis of the Liver and severe dehydration and diarrhea.
That's just what I can tell from the color of her eyes. She wont release her medical records to give me a better idea of what is going on with her.
But it's not GOOD!

www.youtube.com/embed/drCKvCL93hw

Tenpoundbass says

Psoriasis of the Liver and severe dehydration and diarrhea.

That's just what I can tell from the color of her eyes

Clinton's liver has red scaly patches? You can tell that from the color of her eyes? That is just fucking amazing. You learn something new every single day on patnet.

Trump supporters all agree anyone but Hillary will be an improvement. Translated, Hillary will continue the trend of turning America into a 3rd world hell hole.
Hillary supporters all agree anyone but Trump will be an improvement. Translated, Trump wants us to trust him instead of our government check gravy train.

I think there are 3 reasons why people want Trump.
1. Islamic problem. He is tough on Islam, while the democrats are pussycats.
2. Unfair trade policies. Especially with China.
3. Politicians are not trusted. Trump has been a businessman all his life. People like his non PC comments.

As for his thing about women. Who cares. What he can do to solve the country's problems is all that matters.

I see you haven't been to med school...

bob2356 says

Clinton's liver has red scaly patches? You can tell that from the color of her eyes? That is just fucking amazing. You learn something new every single day on patnet.

If the women who claim to be victims cared they would have called the coppers right after the event.
And trump would have been dealt with at the time.
Instead, strangely, after decades of smouldering, it all catches fire 3 weeks before the election and everybody remembers everything.
While clinton bribery cash is bankrolled by the state department.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/4/state-dept-misplaced-6b-under-hillary-clinton-ig-r/

Strategist says

As for his thing about women. Who cares.

Anyone seriously considering voting for Trump should listen to this first.

www.youtube.com/embed/LVVRw-OTCLw

Strategist says

I think there are 3 reasons why people want Trump.

1. Islamic problem. He is tough on Islam, while the democrats are pussycats.

2. Unfair trade policies. Especially with China.

3. Politicians are not trusted. Trump has been a businessman all his life. People like his non PC comments.

As for his thing about women. Who cares. What he can do to solve the country's problems is all that matters.

That's a pretty good summary.

www.youtube.com/embed/ESAmKudsKKY

Strategist says

I think there are 3 reasons why people want Trump.

1. Islamic problem. He is tough on Islam, while the democrats are pussycats.

2. Unfair trade policies. Especially with China.

3. Politicians are not trusted. Trump has been a businessman all his life. People like his non PC comments.

1. Republicans solved the Muslim problem.No economic dealings with terrorist nations.
2. Republicans have stopped all outsourcing.& they never buy Communist China products.
Would bet they only own "Made in america" stuff.
3. Donald Trump running for highest political office. Glad he is not a politician.

"As for his thing about women. Who cares. What he can do to solve the country's problems is all that matters."

Hey bitches you don't matter!
We will see what women think about the idiot in Nov.

ThreeBays says

You're not bothered by his record of telling falsehoods over 70% of the time? How can you trust he would do what he says and do it right?

Compared to Hillary?

You're not bothered by her ties to Saudi Arabia including Huma, her support for exporting US jobs and importing cheaper workers to undercut US wages, her secret email server, the ridiculously biased corporate mainstream press in her favor, the bizarre spectacle of a terrified elite abandoning the pretense of two parties (ie, support for Hillary by top Republicans), her underhanded disposal of Bernie?

I honestly think Trump is the lesser evil by far. We need someone, anyone, who is not part of the corrupt and ossifying elite that thought they had perfected control of the public via the press.

rando says

We need someone, anyone, who is not part of the corrupt and ossifying elite that thought they could just tell the public who to vote for, again.

That is what has been happening until Trump came along and broke the glass ceiling. The elites always chose who could run for President, giving the citizen the choice of a few.
No more politics as usual. The citizen decided Trump could run.

rando says

her support for exporting US jobs and importing cheaper workers to undercut US wages

This is such total BS politics. Exporting of US manufacturing, the existence of help centers in India, outsourcing on a global scale has been going on for at least thirty years. TPP isn't very much about that. Trump talks that issue to get the vote of frustrated working class people. It's not because he's going to do anything about it. Hell, it's practically over now anyway. Jobs can come back here if we lead the way in robotics - or at least keep up, with robotics implementation in manufacturing.

Investing in training and education is the only thing that's going to help our workers and make us competitive.

marcus says

Investing in training and education is the only thing that's going to help our workers and make us competitive.

Wrong.

I bring to your attention three good articles about free trade:

http://www.ianwelsh.net/ricardos-caveat/
http://www.ianwelsh.net/free-trade-is-elties-betraying-their-own-populations/
http://www.ianwelsh.net/trumponomics-how-the-trump-economic-plan-will-wor/

FP says

I bring to your attention three good articles about free trade:

Okay. I read the third one of your opinion pieces. Scary stuff. Two comments

1) I don't believe tariffs are wise right now. If they could work, it would only be after a massive global recession (and war?).

2) What reason do we have to believe that Trump actually cares about improving our economy for workers ? Rather than just wanting their vote. He's a guy that often chooses not to pay people that work for him, and he's manufactures things in other countries and used Chinese steel in his buildings.

A quote from the third link:

Trump is running as the fascist version of FDR: He’s the class traitor. He’s a billionaire who knows how the game is played, knows it is crooked, and is going to betray his own kind to work for the American people.

(i say bullshit - but who wants this ?)

He will be popular. Once his economic plan works, he will be even more popular. He will be idolized by those who support him. The people who hate him most will be deported, powerless, or crawling on their belly for his approval (most of the media).

Remember, FDR improved the US economy.

But Hitler and Mussolini, they really improved Germany and Italy’s economies.

This, my friends, is why I kept warning that current elites were setting the conditions for the rise of a man on horseback, from fascism or the far left.

rando says

who is not part of the corrupt and ossifying elite that thought they had perfected control of the public via the press.

Ever since 9/11 people, even otherwise smart people believe ridiculous conspiracy theories.

TRump openly talks about how he will control the press. We're talking an entirely different level of control. He wants to be like Putin.

Are you crazy ?

marcus says

Okay. I read the third one of your opinion pieces.

Ah, you should start with the first. The first two are more important.

marcus says

What reason do we have to believe that Trump actually cares about improving our economy for workers

I don't think he cares. But the first thing in solving a problem is recognizing what the problem is. His rhetoric helps at least in this regard.

marcus says

TRump openly talks about how he will control the press. We're talking an entirely different level of control. He wants to be like Putin.

Links please.

jazz music says

BUT I agree with with FP in his criticism of marcus' POV that marcus is wrong

I'll agree that I shouldn't have said that training and education is the only thing. But I'll stand by the idea that it's better than protectionism. Have we heard good debates about what the pros and cons of protectionism through tarrifs would be ?

I don't think so. Have we heard a debate about which industries we would even want tariffs implemented on ?

FP pointed us to some opinion pieces about how awesome it will be to have a fascist dictator. Was that his argument ? Why can't these policies be debated ?

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21695855-americas-economy-benefits-hugely-trade-its-costs-have-been-amplified-policy

In any case, cheap imports were a windfall for American consumers. Excluding food and energy, prices of goods have fallen almost every year since NAFTA. Clothes now cost the same as they did in 1986; furnishing a house is as cheap as it was 35 years ago. More trade brought more choice, too. Robert Lawrence and Lawrence Edwards, two economists, estimate that trade with China alone put $250 a year into the pocket of every American by 2008. The gains from cheap stuff flowed disproportionately to the less well-off, because the poor spend more of their incomes on goods than the rich.

At the same time, trade created new markets for American firms. In 1993 America sold nearly $10 billion-worth of cars and parts to Mexico, at today’s prices. By 2013 that had risen to $70 billion. Many American firms have become tightly integrated across the southern border, with low-skilled work done in Mexico and more complex tasks done at home. Exports to China grew by almost 200% between 2005 and 2014, with agriculture and the aerospace and car industries leading the charge. Some workers have benefited from rising exports, because firms that export pay more; one estimate puts the export wage-premium at 18%. Outsourcing low-wage assembly has also increased the productivity of America’s high-skilled workers. For example, Apple’s ability to assemble its iPhones cheaply in China has made the work of its American designers much more lucrative.

The gain and the pain

Trade, though, has an acute image problem. Its benefits are hard to perceive directly, spread as they are across large constituencies: consumers, exporters, and workers who may not realise just how much of what they make is shipped overseas. In contrast, its costs are highly concentrated. Cheap imports have been lethal for many American manufacturers, particularly in the midwestern rustbelt and in the South.

But by 2008 Mr Krugman had changed his mind, warning that the sheer volume of trade with China and other poor countries was probably increasing inequality. In 2013 an updated estimate of his model showed that trade with poor countries depressed unskilled workers’ wages by 10% in 2011, up from 2.7% in 1979, according to Josh Bivens of the Economic Policy Institute, a think-tank. In that time, trade accounted for one-third of the rise in the college premium.

For other economists, the impact of trade on jobs was a growing concern. The sharp decline in American manufacturing employment began in 2000, just as Chinese imports took off (see chart). Yet on the extreme assumption that every dollar spent on imports replaced a dollar spent employing an American, Mr Lawrence calculates that between 2000 and 2007 Chinese imports caused, at most, 188,000 of 484,000 annual manufacturing-job losses. A recent, more detailed, estimate by Daron Acemoglu, David Autor and others chalks up about 1m of 5.5m manufacturing jobs lost between 1999 and 2011 to Chinese competition (with similar-sized job losses in other industries).
This implies that many other factors are in play. Technological change is probably the prime culprit for shrinking manufacturing employment. Productivity increases in the industry have been staggering. For instance, since 1994 carmaking’s contribution to GDP—to which outsourced production by American firms does not contribute—has fallen by about 10%. But there are 30% fewer carmaking jobs. This had led to the false impression that America’s car industry has outsourced most of its work. Such are the advances in manufacturing technology that if China disappeared tomorrow, far fewer jobs would return to America’s shores than left them.

But another recent achievement of trade economists has been to show that trade-induced job losses, while relatively small, are particularly painful: more so than those caused by technology. Until recently, most economists assumed that displaced workers could find new work relatively easily. After all, in June 2007, on the eve of the financial crisis, unemployment was 4.6%—lower than it was before the recession of the early 1990s. Between 2000 and 2007 Americans left 5m jobs a month and started 5.1m new ones. A million or so jobs lost to trade with China over more than a decade seems tiny by comparison.

But many workers displaced by Chinese imports did not simply find another job. Mr Autor and his colleagues have shown that, at local level, employment falls at least one-for-one with jobs lost to trade, and that displaced workers are unlikely to move to seek new work. The lowest-skilled who do find new jobs tend to move to similar, and thus similarly vulnerable, employment. One reason for this immobility could be that the economy is now an unwelcoming place for jobseekers without a university degree. The housing collapse of the late 2000s, which left many Americans trapped in negative equity, may have made things worse. This new strain of research has lent support to the claim of Dani Rodrik, a globalisation sceptic, that “If you are of low skill, have little education, and are not very mobile, international trade has been bad news for you pretty much throughout your entire life.”

The losers from trade became reliant on the government. One supposed safety-net was “trade-adjustment assistance” (TAA), a programme dating from 1962 and beefed up after the signing of NAFTA. If the Department of Labour accepts a petition for TAA, workers get an extension to their unemployment-insurance payments. For most of the 2000s, the extension lasted six months. In addition, beneficiaries can enroll in training programmes; if they do, they receive more payments while they train. Workers over 50 also get a kind of wage insurance which pays up to $12,000 over two years to compensate them for starting a new job on lower pay.

He said he was going to make it easier to sue the press if they run stories with absolutely no basis.

On the other hand, Obama called for Curators on the Internet, a place people could go to get "Verified" (meaning Government narrative approved) Stories, and longed for the days of "Just 3 Networks" the other day. I guarantee you only Corporate News like ABC and CNN (inc. NPR which is now 90% Corporate Grant funded) will be on the Curating Committee.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-decries-wild-west-media-landscape-214642552.html

It's amazing how many things considered conspiracy theoriy lies - Rumors of the NSA reading everybody's emails, that there really is no WMD in Iraq, that Pakistani High Officials knew all along where OBL was - turn out to be true later on (at which point the PR teams fire up the "Everybody knew that, this is Old News/Open Secret" excuse)

These (above) are the Pros and cons or at least a thoughtful discussion and perspective on them. I say we should be forward looking about 21st century jobs, and moving in the direction of a different system that allows for stable rather than growing populations and focus on technology and how our economy will function when productivity of the typical worker is not measured only in the direct impact on profits. Because many making functions will eventually be way more automated.

That is, the correct shift would have been to the left, not to a fascist dictator. Hillary is not a shift to the left, but the success of Bernie should open the door and hopefully Hillary can help things swing a little in that direction. Not having the wrong SCOTUS justices will be key.

marcus says

FP pointed us to some opinion pieces about how awesome it will be to have a fascist dictator.

What?? I'm speechless.

rando says

marcus says

TRump openly talks about how he will control the press. We're talking an entirely different level of control. He wants to be like Putin.

Links please.

You haven't been paying attention if you didn't see what he did to the Washinton post, excluding them from his rallies. He criticizes press for quoting the insane stuff he says. And calls that negative coverage.

He says he wants to make it easier to sue the media. He has a long reputation of going after people that say bad things about him. What will he do when he has a lot of power ?

He compliments Putin, and people right here oin this forum agree with TRump that Putin is a better leader than Obama. If you say that, then you must be okay with extremely authoritarian strong man tactics.

http://www.alternet.org/books/new-old-authoritarianism-donald-trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/09/07/donald-trump-wielded-an-authoritarian-press-ban-against-various-media-outlets-for-more-than-a-year/?utm_term=.e0a6feaf13db

http://www.pressherald.com/2016/10/11/lepage-reaffirms-support-for-trump-despite-lewd-comments-criticizes-collins/

http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/10/10/charles-krauthammer-donald-trump-s-threats-go-after-press-if-elected-shows-his-authoritarian/213723

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/9/7/1566804/-Trump-s-Authoritarian-Risk-on-a-Scale-of-1-10-Poll-and-Discussion-of-Media-Responsibility

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/05/heres-how-trumps-authoritarianism-would-work.html

http://www.humanosphere.org/human-rights/2016/06/82969/

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2016/04/19/trump-appeals-to-the-authoritarian-within-vanderbilt-researcher/

Careful what you wish for Patrick.

Ironman says

jazz music says

I wish I knew more

We wish you did too, but since this is a free speech forum, you get to post what ever delusional thoughts are running through your head between drinks.

Wonder what he is drinking tonight. My guess, it's a 12 pack of Miller Lite, purchased from 7-11 at twice the price, even though there is a Walmart next to him.

FP says

I bring to your attention three good articles about free trade:

http://www.ianwelsh.net/ricardos-caveat/

http://www.ianwelsh.net/free-trade-is-elties-betraying-their-own-populations/

http://www.ianwelsh.net/trumponomics-how-the-trump-economic-plan-will-wor/

I'm a super strong believer in free trade, as long as it's free and fair. Sadly, it's tilted in favor of China.
Now they use our money for an arms race that we cannot afford.

marcus says

He compliments Putin, and people right here oin this forum agree with TRump that Putin is a better leader than Obama.

I do not know what exactly you consider a compliment. I know that the other US politicians have been trying to demonize Putin and have lied shamelessly in doing it.

Putin is intelligent, erudite, skillful, and his foreign policy has been more moderate and reasonable than that of Obama and Hillary. I have no opinion about his domestic politics. The situation there is complicated. Democracy cannot be installed overnight and there are times when it may not the the best option. Furthermore, no country has perfect democracy. The US for example, is closer to an oligarchy. Putin is popular in Russia.

ThreeBays says

Where's your Trump list?

It's everywhere, all the time on the CorpMedia.