patrick.net

South America is littered with the corpses of College Students, Labor Unionists, and Pesky Priests because the democratically elected President didn't listen to his staff when they told him a coup was imminent, to declare martial law, call up these loyal Army/Navy units to surround the Palace, expel the US Army Liason, and arrest General Criollo, Coronel Phalange, and Senador Coppermine.

"Oh no, they'd never do that. We got to be all law-abiding and principled."

Not only did that President and most his staff get shot in the head, but lots of 19-year olds, steelworkers, and volunteer doctors got 500 AGL Helicopter rides because of his "Principles". And then it took more than a decade to restore anything like a democracy.

Of course Russia has an agenda. So does Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, Wikileaks, and every other media outlet in the world. If you are arguing that any "unbiased" investigative journalism should be stopped, then you have to stop all journalism. There is no journalism that isn't selective.

The solution isn't to get rid of all selective journalism. The solution is to enable all sides to get their evidence on the table, and then to refute bad evidence while letting good evidence persuade the people.

Are you attempting to make the case that the evidence the Russians leaked was erroneous or bad? It's not. If it were, we'd have seen counter-evidence showing tampering of the text or the taking of the text out of context.

The only way to deal with biases and deliberate manipulation is with more evidence, not less.

says

YOU still are an anti-American Russian apologist and Putin fanboy. People like you disgust me.

Such salty expressions of impotent rage. I'm guessing HydroCabron because there is better formatting and spelling than Roberto.

Turn Down for WHAT?!

Oh stop it, @putin fanboy!
You're giving me the warm fuzzies!

@Putin fanboy is my new favorite troll!

We Patnet denizens are going to have SO much fun with him!

SlutBitchHoe has risen!

Fixed:
Putin Fanboy says

NEWSFLASH: Completing a failed two-term presidency

Quigley says

Putin fanboy is my new favorite troll!

mostly the basics of hacking 101 but the libs are stupid they will eat anything Obozo crapped out.

Good use of the first post of the year.

What really sucks is that these people think I would rather hear them sound exactly like the studio produced track, and not inject any new phrasing or emotion into the song.

The best part of a Grateful dead concert for me, was when Jerry flubbed the words, or sung verses out of order. There would be a nano second pause where the whole band would acknowledge laugh, shrug then continue on with the altered song singing the missed verse after that one. There were some flubbed versions on bootleg concert tapes that I liked better than the original arrangement.

I don't get why these Pop stars feel compelled to lip sync unless they can't really perform at all and it's all studio magic.

Fanboy

Why are people like you stupid as fuck? I assume you believed the washington post story about the Russians hacking an electric company in Vermont also?

I am actually very much in favor of the Government preventing interference in the US elections.

Here's what we can do.

1) Paper Ballots
2) Have a commission on why the excessively well funded Intelligence and Law Enforcement agencies failed to take action prior and during the election. Money is no excuse, they are drowning in it; and they already Unconstitutionally gather all digital communications - hard to claim they can't find it if they look for it.

And most of all:

3) Campaigns and Political Parties CANNOT refuse offers of assistance from the FBI if the FBI suspects they are being hacked. Or their bank accounts will be frozen until compliance, in order to preserve the election process.

When the DNC refused FBI assistance in the most haughty and dismissive manner. And IF the Russians did it, DNC's refusal to work with the FBI helped Putin hack the election.

Of course we wouldn't have exposed lies to the American Public about neutrality in the Primary Process (part of the US Election system) and pay-for-play at the DNC. You know, only 5 DNC Executives resigned this year as a result of leaks and investigative journalism.

Why not complete the faux entertainment and just show a music video?

PCGyver says

Unless of course our response is to start WWIII.

I don't know about WWIII, but Obama just signed the Portman-Murphy "Counter-Propaganda" act which will put Cold War Style Propaganda and Disinfo stuff back in business with a shit ton of taxpayer cash. Not like it ever went away.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/05/pentagon-spending-billions-pr-sway-world-opinion.html

We always gotta have a war going, they know they ain't gonna get another big one in the MENA, and they can't risk their Slave Labor Factories with Dormitory Anti-Suicide Netting in China. That kinda narrows it down.

Besides GCC/OPEC states give generously to US Lobbyists, Think tanks, Presidential libraries, Influential Universities.

Guess who isn't an OPEC member but has a lot of oil, massive untapped reserves, and has a history of battling Sunni Fundamentalists and Turkish Influence?

Funny how the armchair quarterbacks think they could run a country like Russia better than Putin. This guy has weathered many crisis situations and has been dealing with Russia's endemic issues while bolstering nationalism and the people's support for their country, not just from the proles but also from the elites and most of the educated people, giving him approval ratings over 80%. All the while the reigning elite politicians in Western Europe and the US have completely lost touch with their voting base and have displayed open contempt for the people that voted them in. The reality is that most are begging for his sanctifying balm while soundly rejecting the flaccid effeminated autocrat dicks the mainstream EU and US politicians have become, jet-setting around the world on taxpayer money while lecturing the proles and importing problems everywhere except for into their expensive neighborhood circles. The EU and US mainstream press today is closer to the former pravda than RT is - a centralized, government-controlled task force to combat "fake" news, really?? Orwell called and wants his ideas for 1984 back! And you guys have the gall to point the fingers at Russia? Laughable. Happy deplorable 2017!

Trumpligula can hardly wait for his Russian mobster bukake.

There is something special about the first inaugural bukake as President. Trumpligula will feel so anointed.

Audiences today are very simple and feeble minded. Producers today just put a stripper in front of them and have them bump and grind while singing terribly and everybody claps and other so called stars praise them as talented. Then they go on TV and try to sway intelligent voters who also clap when they bad mouth certain politicians, but still see this only as entertainment and stick it to the horses ass stars and vote they way they want.

She needed to go to plan B and do naked handstands.

Or at least bounce around with her ankles behind her neck.

If Wikileaks was Bernstein & Woodward, they'd be holding them responsible for Gerald Ford.

PCGyver says

Wait ... Let me get this straight so you are saying that there was an ulterior motive to blame the Russians?

Multiple ones:
1) Divide the republicans between their oil-lovin' backers who wanna tap that oil and their MIC-lovin' backers who wanna sell more F-35s and "Cyber-Intelligence" Services
2) Try to leave Trump a dilemma upon entering office where if he doesn't take strong action on Russia, it makes it look like he's in the pay of a foreign power or at least "too soft"; but if he takes action he risks an international crisis.
The Cold Warriors who would have prevented such risks are either gone or marginal in power/influence. Neither Obama or Hillary have experience on the National Stage in the Cold War.
3) Keep the Russia door open for the MIC lobby, which is also very important to the Democrats in California and Washington State.

I forgot about sponsoring various sides in two Middle Eastern Civil Wars, both of which did not have optimal outcomes, if one believes an optimal outcome is at least not total Chaos and a Fundamentalist Insurgency where gays are thrown out of windows and people who sneak a Kebab in their mouth at noon during Ramadan are summarily executed in the street controls a massive chunk of the country, terrorizing millions.

Is this the same John McAfee of "I"m totally bonkers, slobbering insane" fame?

DUH.

I went to the shitter and just remembered all the National Security Briefings.

Riddle me this: If the Intelligence Agencies believe Russia hacked the election because they possess the smoking gun...

Why is Trump shooting himself in the foot by openly pushing for better relations with Russia and indeed praising Putin's control, when he KNOWS from his briefings Russia hacked the election?

Because he wants to be impeached within weeks?

This is a promising beginning for the Trumpligula Dynastic Caliphate. How do you put rancid clam explosive diarrhea symbology on a flag?

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

Ivanka and Melanoma wrestle it out and then make out ALL NIGHT LONG!

How are you going to keep Donald from jumping into the ring naked to join in on the fun?

Although I admit that anything from Roscoes would keep a normal man at bay, by smell alone, I don't think it's enough to keep Donald off a ménage à trois with his wife and daughter.

Maybe if you got some of the Roscoes' patrons to stand by the ring... And yes, this video appears on the Roscoes' website front page.

www.youtube.com/embed/cU7rtj7vRA0

Too many white people here.

That's what good, suck it down. Dark meat!

In his defense, the video does make the disclaimer in all caps:

WARNING, ONLY EAT THIS TWICE A YEAR.

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

What's with the Ritz cracker?

Yeah, an ostrich would have made more sense. Although the rotating cracker does probably stimulate the butt more.

I keep confusing Secretary of FUCK! YOU! with
President SUCK! MY! DICK!

Maybe while I'm being FUCKED! & SUCKING! DICK!
my confusion will clear up.

PCGyver says

And that's why I keep going. Dumbass fucked up and they can't bear to look in the mirror and admit it.

Things the democrats refuse to grapple with:

They lost several states that they considered safe and didn't even bother campaigning in, and were totally flabbergasted by it.
That their Superdelegates, mostly Clintonistas or Clinton-aligned Donors and ex-Lobbyists, ended up nominating the weakest candidate (popular vote is not how we pick candidates, both party strategists and leaders know this, so it's a red herring).
That they had TWO (2) Democratic Chairs resign within weeks of each other over nomination rigging and shady dealings, and other big players as well, thanks to O'Keefe. Robert Creamer is such a big shit he's met with Obama 45 times.
That many of the same real journalists suspicious of WMD are the same ones suspicious of "Russia Done Stole Our Election by revealing DNC underhandedness!"

The DEPARTMENT! Of BEND! OVER!

Headed by PRESIDENT LAY DOWN And LICK YOUR LIPS, COW! PUSSY!!

Putin on the Ritz! Obv!

YES, YES, AND YES AGAIN! DID I SAY YES, YET! This is a First Lady who can perform with the greats, like Nancy Reagan.

The Donald's entourage carries a variety of pussy prostheses for him to grab and gnaw on so that he can control himself during public appearances. In private, nobody is safe.

"Where's my pussy pacifier, I'm jonesing watching Melania and Ivanka doing their thing!"

T L Lips says

Putin is a statesman. He has a vision he lays out, takes hours of questions directly from the public - and most of them not 'boxer or brief?' fluffy questions, he's always willing to talk, when you fuck with him he punches back open and honestly.

Obama, like other Western leaders, is a technocratic managerial functionary...

When this topic was fresher, and interested me as a social phenomena, I'd ask a russian-speaking person the same question: "Who do you think took down MS-17?" The answer (which I didn't expect to be exact, yet it was in all but one cases) would usually do awesome job classifying the person and spare me from talking to lunatics.

First and foremost, Putin is a liar. Whether he's a sociopath by birth or managed to pull it off through training is irrelevant. The best way to "unhypnotize" yourself with regards to Putin is to watch him talking to media years ago about facts that are now common knowledge but weren't back then:
"is Russia planning military operation in Ukraine?" (2013)
"was it Russian military that blocked Ukrainian troops in Crimea?" (April 2014)
"who took down MS-17?" (oh, that's a good one, there is absolutely no way to invite that question without inviting another one, about presence of Russian military in Ukraine)

Now that we know the facts, you just can't perceive that "honest and straightforward" approach that he uses without disgust. However, it's also admirably convincing - neither Obama, nor Hillary, nor Trump come close.

I think that it's irrelevant whether or not Russia influenced the elections (because "influence" was in revealing info that public had the right to know in the first place) However, I'm more inclined to believe it because Putin denies it.

More Behavioral/Circumstantial evidence.

If the US had solid evidence MH-17 was shot down, we would have heard it already. It's been years. You have Dutch investigators quitting in disgust. The Russians released satellite photos showing a Ukrainian BUK battery in the area that disappeared within 24 hours of the incident.

With all the NATO/US OTH radars, that can see ~30,000 ft. big ass airliners flying as far as the Urals, "the proof is out there".

We've never heard the Ukrainian explanation as to why they didn't re-route this one plane out of dozens that entered Ukrainian airspace and re-routed away from Donbass in the preceding weeks.

Russia had no motive; the Ukrainians had every motive: 1) Putin was supposed to be flying that day back from Europe and 2) Since they use the same weaponry, they can put discredit on the Russians in the absence of evidence and 3) The Ukrainian Intel Services are stunningly mediocre, since anybody worth their salt leaves to work with Oligrachs - or is in the pay of a third party like Ace Tomato Company..

We have one poster here who correctly points out Saddam had no incentive for developing WMDs. Assad had no reason to initiate the use of Chems as he knew the US was begging for an excuse to intervene. So what incentive did Russia have to shoot down a third party aircraft? None.

Leaving the issue largely unresolved (and the lack of formal accusations and penalties) is to the advantage of anti-Russian elements - it's something they can pull out to increase suspicion. The Russians would rather have the whole thing be done already.

Dutch report points at Russian-made missile shot from "rebel-controlled territory". Solid evidence has been presented, but you refuse to accept it as such. For folks like you, only Putin's own admission is proof solid enough, just like it was with Crimea: denial all the way until that government-sponsored movie "Crimea: way back home" (he must be super vain to allow bragging rights for this admittedly masterful military operation to run over pretense of integrity)
Please stop this nonsense about not having a motive. Swapping result and intent for the sake of seeking motive is intellectually dishonest, otherwise every convicted murderer would be screaming "I didn't have a motive!" and demanding retrial.
Of course they didn't have a motive in the end result of this major screw-up. Evil intent (Russian or Ukrainian) was never a working theory for anybody in the right mind. All they wanted was to have some fun with easy target (transport aircraft), shoot down some kakhly (because they deserve to die for fighting for their country), and enjoy some positive media (hey, we got another one down, stay out of our skies!). Some dumb ass mistake - and instead they got international investigation and all the crap that comes with being labeled baby killers.

Your arguments are fully consistent with the approach to investigation that Putin's team employed from day 1: death by a thousand paper cuts. Thousand red herring theories, each one taking time and energy to rebutt. Among them: Dutch team quitting (ordinary attrition made sound as something else), re-routing the plane (ordinary practice in the industry given the conditions), Russian satellite photos (Bellington says that they are forged and explains why) Let me help you with others: Ukrainian SU-25 (they temporarily changed SU-25 flying characteristics on Wikipedia to make it fit!!!), Spanish dispatcher, HIV scientists, they were already dead, what else? Oh, good one: that photo of the air-to-air missile flying towards the aircraft.

This issue is resolved