patrick.net

I really doubt even 17 percent of Americans have a clue what's in the new bill.

But I myself don't even approve, because I know these things:

* It does not expand basic Medicare to all with an optional pay-in.
* It does not require providers to provide a short clear written statement of charges in advance of treatment.

Those things would be simple and effective in increasing coverage and lowering costs.

Do you think most of the people who hated PPACA really understood the law?

Regarding the GOP bill, it seems like it does a lot PPACA does, but worse and with worse outcomes. Aside from the politics and such, what does the GOP bill contain that is a move in the correct direction? It would seem all the revenue is being slashed, but old people can pay more (and the young and healthy, less). It allows for HSAs (PPACA did too, right?), but aren't those tax advantages and the ability to save more in your HSA things that only the wealthy benefit from?

In other words, keep your kids up to 26 on the plan (add cost), keep pre-existing conditions (add costs), cut the taxes (cut revenue), cut subsides to the poor and elderly (save money).

Your ideas seem like nice additions to any law.

This Bill is not the thing that will get signed by the President. Besides it still has to pass the Senate.
I'm interested in seeing what Trump does with it. I hope he blows Paul Ryan away by ameding the hell out of it. Then Ryan cries shit like "I thought we had a deal?"

I wish everybody would shut up and let Trump be Trump. If he rubber stamps the Paul Ryan bill I would be 100% perplexed, that is not what I expect him to do. Of course the Congress never Trumpers don't either. That's why they are doing everything in their power to keep it off his desk. They had Zero Give a Shits when Obama was creating his piece of shit legislation. Because they got rich by it. Trump scares the hell out them because the party is over.

"I'm interested in seeing what Trump does with it. I hope he blows Paul Ryan away by ameding the hell out of it. Then Ryan cries shit like "I thought we had a deal?"

The President doesn't have the power to amend a bill.

joeyjojojunior says

The President doesn't have the power to amend a bill.

He does in TPB's pink sky world.

Of course, Cap'n also thinks Trump is concerned about breaking his promises. I got news for you, he didn't mean them when he uttered them!

Who knew keeping all those promises would be this hard?

There should be a bipartisan opportunity here to replace Medicaid with fully funding EMTALA, with no balance billing. That would provide true emergency coverage for everyone, which is better than what most people have now, while also reducing costs. It would work especially well if EMTALA paid on a fee-for-diagnosis basis like the Mayo Clinic uses, rather than fee-for-service as it does now. That would take away the current incentive to monetize chronic conditions and maximize revenue-driven procedures, while incentivizing efficient resolution of true emergencies.

Expanding Medicare would expand the problems of Medicare, which I've described elsewhere. I have friends who support it, mainly because it's less bad than Obamneycare, but it's a problematic alternative.

CL says

Do you think most of the people who hated PPACA really understood the law?

The more people knew about Obamneycare, the more likely they were to oppose it, except for the partisan patronage networks that profit from it. For example, 70% of doctors opposed it, and college graduates opposed it by a wider margin than the general public. Support was generally only ever a subset of support for President Obama, which was ironic because he had campaigned against the same plan in 2008 when it was called "Hillary's Plan". In other words, supporters were mainly identitarians who didn't understand the law. I quoted one of my favorite examples in a post on Patnet.

The problem now is the Democrats are lost in TDS, so they can't be seen negotiating with him. Democrats are totally committed to spreading Islam and continuing the Obamneycare gravy train, butchering and poisoning Americans for power and profit. Republicans are generally worse, but the President could negotiate a better deal if Democrats tried to work with him. Instead they start screaming about how bad the Republican Congress was and they want Democrats in Congress to be equally bad, because revenge, cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

Funny thing: when the Republicans introduced RyanCare, public opinion of Obamneycare swung from negative to positive. It's the "good cop, bad cop" two step dance. Democrats imposed a bad plan, Republicans proposed something worse, and suddenly the bad plan seemed less bad. It's divide&misrule. Obamneycare didn't get better, but the most likely alternative got worse.

Tenpoundbass says

f he rubber stamps the Paul Ryan bill I would be 100% perplexed, that is not what I expect him to do.

What is it you think Trump will insist MUST be in the final bill?

Also, he's working pretty hard to try to pass this one. He seems to be learning that in order to get things enacted, you need consensus more than delusional chest-thumping.

Congresspeople and Senators are ambitious and confident. They will suck up, sure, but not to a chaotic, ill-disciplined and untrustworthy office-holder, especially one with shallow support and few loyal friends. (Remember that there were not many constituencies he did not attack and alienate).

Someone explain why the hell we need the gov in healthcare anyways.

joshuatrio says

Someone explain why the hell we need the gov in healthcare anyways.

In emergencies, it can be literally life-saving. Imagine you or someone you care about gets robbed and stabbed. No ID, bleeding out, weak, maybe unconscious. Who is going to pick you up and put you back together again? In Britain, the NHS would do that, no charge. Here, a series of vultures would rob you, and then maybe give you an infection that might kill you, all so they can maximize revenues at your expense. The government actually helps them do it, enabling them to sue you for astronomical charges that are laughably called "reasonable and customary", without even proving that the work was (a) necessary and (b) done properly. Defense, emergency medical, fire, police, and vaccines are areas where good government can help a lot, and there is no practical substitute.

joshuatrio says

Someone explain why the hell we need the gov in healthcare anyways.

Because capitalism has utterly failed at it for 70 years.

Plus, government is in healthcare merely by licensing doctors, hospitals, clinics, drugs, etc.

CL says

Tenpoundbass says

f he rubber stamps the Paul Ryan bill I would be 100% perplexed, that is not what I expect him to do.

What is it you think Trump will insist MUST be in the final bill?

Also, he's working pretty hard to try to pass this one. He seems to be learning that in order to get things enacted, you need consensus more than delusional chest-thumping.

So you have Ryancare floating around, it sucks and everyone knows it. Trump is demanding it get to his desk. He isn't saying he will sign it.
Now while all of this Ryancare drama is playing out. Hopefully more naysayers will describe a bill that would be more fitting.
"Why Ryancare doesn't reduce premiums, it doesn't make prices transparent, why it doesn't give people choice, it doesn't make medicalcare cheaper"
The list goes on and on what we all know Ryancare doesn't do.

So when the Ryancare bill hits his desk, Donald makes the bill have all of those things that the naysayers said it lacked. He makes it an attracive option for the voter. He will Tweet about all of the great shit it does and give all of the voters healthcare wood.

After that I expect those that fully support Ryancare now, and those that don't will flip sides.
That's when the real battle begins.

Trump is just setting up his inflatable battalion in Normandy.
You don't push a wet noodle you pull it.

Tenpoundbass says

This Bill is not the thing that will get signed by the President.

I sure hope not. It's a piece of shit.

The people want Bernie

Ironman says

rando says

But I myself don't even approve, because I know these things:

* It does not expand basic Medicare to all with an optional pay-in.

The country would go into a Depression if that happened... unless that pay-in was YYuuugggeeeeeee....

Explain the difference between Medicare for all and socialized medical care (as it exists in many other countries).

rando says

* It does not require providers to provide a short clear written statement of charges in advance of treatment.

I agreed with you before the election that this was a good idea. I believe I said this at the time as well. It's also an obvious idea, but it isn't politically possible and practically would be very difficult. I still think it would be great to try. IMO, the chances of this getting into a bill and becoming law are well below 1%. They always were, regardless of what Trump made you think he could/would do.

The Republicans have been claiming that Obamacare sucks because the Democrats and Obama are stupid and corrupt. So, the bill is terrible and it gave huge freebies to the health industry and made healthcare more expensive for everybody. They've been saying that they could write a much better bill (even a great bill) easily and quickly. For some reason, many people believed this line.

What do those people think now? What conclusions can we draw from the bill that has risen from the ashes? I guess we will really find out once the dust settles on whatever they eventually come up with. In the mean time, people have to wonder why we have what we have if it were going to be so easy.

The funny thing is that Republicans and Trump voters hate it for different reasons. The Freedom caucus hates it because it doesn't go far enough in delivering an Ayn Randian paradise. Many Trump voters hate it because they realize that working and lower class people in the 45-65 range will be whacked hard and fast and those suffering from the drug epidemic will be fucked. Young healthy self-interested people who cannot yet imagine themselves struggling with a health issue and can't spare a couple hundred bucks a month should rejoice at this bill. It delivers what they want: cheaper ($100/month) catastrophic insurance freed from the need to subsidize older sicker people who cannot come close to affording health care or insurance.

.

Ironman says

FP says

Explain the difference between Medicare for all and socialized medical care

Cost of treatment.

What is it due to?

Tenpoundbass says

So when the Ryancare bill hits his desk, Donald makes the bill have all of those things that the naysayers said it lacked.

Oh look, behind that vase, there's a million dollars! Do you really think that's how this works? Wow! That's some extinction level delusion you've got going.

The most conservative wing of the GOP, the Freedom Caucus, ya know, the guys you love the most, call RyanCare "the largest welfare program ever proposed by Republicans." TRUMP WILL SIGN IT THE SECOND IT HITS HIS DESK because he is in WE GOTTA DO SUMPIN' EVEN IF IT'S WRONG mode.

The thing you don't realize is this: it's not that Trump is happy to turn his back on what he promised about healthcare and health insurance on the campaign trail...HE DOESN'T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT HE SAID ABOUT IT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL. The GOP's true colors are on full display in this spastic abortion of a bill and Trump will sign it in a heartbeat and tell you you should love it. Then he will blame it on the Democrats and guess what....then you'll love it.

Ironman says

The smart ones believe this:

Did you vote for Trump?

Ironman says

No, I voted AGAINST Hillary.

Cute.

Paul Ryan had a moment of honesty.

www.youtube.com/embed/LT3Px11xN-0

Ironman says

? Can't you handle the truth..

Because you can't own it. You can defend trump until your heart's content, but keep a backdoor excuse for when he fails. I'm not allowed to call that like it is anymore here.

Ironman says

Can't you handle the truth..

Ironman says

through all my posts and point to the link, any link, that said I was voting FOR Trump

Proving my point.

Ironman says

Please go back through all my posts and point to the link, any link, that said I was voting FOR Trump

Dude. For real? That's lame coming from you.

I'll gladly admit I voted for Trump. And I will gladly say that this Trumpcare bill was a piece of shit. Nothing in that terd that makes America great again.

This whole Ryancare bill was Bannon's plot to 1) depose the corporate stooge Paul Ryan as speaker of the house, 2) soften up democrats for a kinder gentler repeal and replace of Obamacare.

Lots of theater here folks! Don't be fooled!

Quigley says

Lots of theater here folks! Don't be fooled!

Don't worry, I get it. Trump is almost entirely theater. Some of you guys eat that shit up.

I love that the Trumpkins call this Ryancare, as if Trump was an innocent bystander in this. Hilarious

YesYNot says

What conclusions can we draw from the bill that has risen from the ashes?

That any replacement bill needs to be written from scratch, instead of reusing an older bill that was (proverbially) dusted off and reused.

zzyzzx says

That any replacement bill needs to be written from scratch, instead of reusing an older bill that was (proverbially) dusted off and reused.

Shouldn't Trump have known this already?

joeyjojojunior says

zzyzzx says

That any replacement bill needs to be written from scratch, instead of reusing an older bill that was (proverbially) dusted off and reused.

Shouldn't Trump have known this already?

Not a chance. It was "too complicated" for him. He's been spoon-fed all his life. Since birth everything has been simply handed to him. He's a big titted bimbo with a penis so all he knows about is looking in the mirror and making demands and then lying about who is to blame for a failure that is entirely his and his alone.

As for the dim witted GOP, shouldn't they have had enough time, some seven years, and plenty of practice turning their alleged minds toward the project of giving at least some substance to the concept of "NO!". Honestly, they're just versions of Trump: bimbos without penises that nobody wants to fuck.

So here we are: the worst Congress ever (in America's opinion) trying to have monkey sex with the worst Precedent ever (in America's opinion). One can't find his dick and the others don't have one, so they just shoot each other in the face and choose to blame the one group (Democrats) that wasn't even in the room.

WINNING! And on to something easy....tax reform! Who knew Trump would be so stupid about this one too?

Ironman says

Wow, I never knew that..

...add it too the endless list of shit you don't know...

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/24/exclusive-discussion-gop-replacement-paul-ryan-speaker-house-intensifies-white-house-congress/

Republican officials in Congress and the White House are now openly discussing finding a GOP replacement to Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) as Speaker of the House, after Ryan failed to pass the American Health Care Act out of the House and misled the public and President Donald Trump when he promised repeatedly the bill would pass.

This is a perfect example of Trump's "unpresidented" incompetence. Now that he has failed with RyanCare his surrogate Breitbart talks about skullfucking Ryan just before Trump moves on to his next failure: tax reform. Does Trump expect the Dems to help on this one too? No? Well then, be sure to skullfuck the guy in your own party whom you need to work with. THAT'S A REAL GOOD START, DUMBASS!!

Fast forward to "We pulled the tax reform package because Ryan...I blame Pelosi. WINNING! Next up Infrastructure spending, folks. To begin with I plan to skullfuck Paul Ryan and I expect him to rubberstamp my plan to spend like a drunken sailor on shit he hates."

The worst Congress (run by Republicans) trying to avoid being skullfucked by the worst Precedent. You can't make this shit up.

Ironman says

Trump (or Obama) can write spending bills in the House now?? Wow, I never knew that..

Can you post the link where that Executive Order was signed by Trump, I must have missed it.

Here's a free lesson in how politics works for you Ironman. Typically on a bill this important, that the President made one of his top priorities, he will work with the Speaker closely to craft a bill that meets both of their expectations. Clearly Trump did a lot of this as he was front and center in all negotiations with Republican Congressmen. As much as he wants to hang Ryan out to dry, Trump owns this failure.

I thought they were supposed to repeal, not replace...