patrick.net

Straw Man says

Because some family bought a cheap non-transferrable, fixed-date, non-refundable ticket but wanted it to be treated as something else?

I don't know the full details, b/c it wasn't in the article, but I'm betting that they did check the kid in either at the counter or a kiosk. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to bring the carrier on.

So, the airline found out about the switcheroo somehow, either by the fact that the kid never showed an ID to TSA, because the passengers told the airline, or because the computer told them to kick the 18 yr old off the plane, and they went and found a 2 yr old in the seat. I agree with you that the airline had a technicality on their side, but I doubt it was really a problem caused by these people bringing one son instead of another to the airport.

It's still a dick-move. People are learning that the airlines will fuck you over at the drop of a hat if it is technically possible and in their short term best interest. This behavior and frequent delays devalue an airline ticket, by the way.

This still has to get through the Senate, right?

Seats need to be treated as a security, you buy it you own that seat until the airline gets you to your destination.
Don't sell it if you don't want it gone, and same for buying them. A big part of airline prices is the bulk manipulation of seats.
It's no different than Ticketmaster, then the thousands of investors who have an inside relationship to buy up 80% of a venue seats for an event then sell them a marked up prices.
On top of that manipulation, you can be kicked off the plane because one of their best butt buddies, needs that seat to put together a sweet 2000 seat deal he's working on, so the airlines oblige.
At least once you buy a scalped ticket you wont be thrown out of your seat, after you've sat down. Even if the ticket was bogus.
I saw Phish in 2012 NYE in Miami, my friend and I just showed up and bought a ticket outside.
We were seated inside, when an usher came over with a couple, who had tickets(theirs looked more official actually) that matched ours.
The guy scanned them both and they both passed, so he told my friend and I to go down into the general admission area on the floor. Which was cooler anyway.

You know what let the ticket scalpers sell airline tickets yeah!

Straw Man says

They didn't fucking have the fucking ticket for the fucking 2 y.o. child, but insisted on getting the seat, that's all.

They brought a ticket. One family member used it instead of another, and by using it they complied with Delta's recommendations for child seating. A child ticket may have been cheaper, so Delta got to keep the extra fare paid for an adult family member.

Kicking the whole family off the plane was horrible customer service.

Since the airlines won't do the minimum, the government has to. It's a small price to pay for the massive taxpayer subsidies, from the special-just-for-airlines lower gas tax rate to the construction and maintenance of airports from top to bottom.

Overbooking is a safety and efficiency issue, and it's getting more frequent now that the airlines have increased the average seating per plane.

How many flights are delayed ($$$), how many cops need to be called ($$$), how many other problems are related to overbooking situations on planes ($$$)?

Another great reform is month-by-month terminal gate rental, with premiums paid for premium timeslots, which will spread out the schedule and increase safety for ATC guys. Do away with hub airports.

rando says

This still has to get through the Senate, right?

The first time they tried this bill, the media and public got wind of it, and there was too much backlash to get it passed. This time, they gave the tea party some concessions, and then the bill was rammed through quickly, before the public figured out what was in it. There's no chance it will pass through the senate without major changes, and it is still unlikely that the Senate and House will actually agree on something. Even if it doesn't pass, the house Republicans can at least claim that they passed a repeal bill and the Senate dropped the ball when campaigning in 2 yrs. They even get to claim that they covered people with preexisting conditions, because they found $8 billion. This is enough to give each person with a preexisting condition around $100, but no matter. They'll say it was funded. This is 1 dimensional chess.

Dan8267 says

2. The seat was intended for the child.

The seat was purchased for a different child, not the one that was sitting in it.

Ironman says

Still running with that false narrative, are you? Try reading the other parts of the thread above.

blah blah blah false narrative blah blah

Your post added nothing of interest. You read some article on 'the hill' where people play a shell game with the definition of a preexisting condition. The gist of the article is that Obamacare places the cost of the high risk pool, which fails because it places the burden on too few people. Yet, Obamacare costs too much for the government and for the participants. The GOP solution is to just have the government pay for the high risk pool. So this $8Billion ($25 per citizen) will allow the government to cut a couple of hundred billion in taxes. In addition to the government saving $25 for each $1 spent, individuals on the market will have their premiums reduced by 40% by removing the high risk people. Win win win win win!!!! Everybody is winning!!!!! I love math!!!!!

Here's what Kaiser has to say about the number with preexisting conditions.

If this GOP bill does happen to pass, I hope that someone in the press makes a database of all of the people who end up getting no treatment and dying early due to the passage of the bill. It might be cathartic for the people who have to watch their loved ones die without treatment, and the journalist would probably get a Pullitzer.

YesYNot says

I believe that was the technicality that the airline used to take the seat back.

So they unethically used some technical ploy to fuck over their customers. That still doesn't make their reckless endangerment of the child or threats to the parents any less legal. And even if that ploy manage to get them not to have to pay the federal mandated amount to the parents for the child's seat, they would still have to pay the full mandated amount for each of the parent's seats. And the bad publicity is certainly more costly than simply paying a single person even the maximum amount to give up a seat.

Furthermore, this is yet another reason it should be utterly illegal to overbook. Overbooking is fraud. Plain and simple.

Lashkar_i_Trumpi says

Now that boomers don't have young kids, they want everything re-arranged to their convenience.

So fucking true. Can Boomers just not be selfish once in their lives?

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

ONLY Singapore Air gets this really right. Families with kids are boarded and apparently settled before anyone else. At level-off cabin staff marks the infant and toddler seats with colored markers and 10 minutes later they reappear with foods for them, I am imagining here, in age appropriate preparations. 20 minutes after level-off, peace and quiet.

That sounds exactly right. For everyone on the flight. You give your kid a cookie from your bag, she won't want it, but if the stewardess brings them a bag of stale pretzels she will munch those happily for an hour!

ThreeBays says

Because the seat was booked in another person's name, it is perfectly legitimate for the airline to treat it as a "no show" and cancel that ticket on any remaining legs of the flight.

First of all, that's a shitty rule that exists only to defraud the customer. Second, that's no excuse for criminally endangering the life of a child. Third, that doesn't change the fact that overbooking is fraud and should be prosecuted as a crime.

Respectfully, in this particular case, people are blaming the wrong villain. They should demand the FAA change policy regarding "Lap Children: The Most Unsafe Passengers on a Plane". This case would not have happened if the airline had not been allowed to sell a supposedly "safe" (but really unsafe) lap child ticket for the 2yo.

As for overbooking, the solution is as Lashkar said, a passenger bill of rights requiring minimum compensation for passengers who get bumped. These passengers and most others bought the cheapest tickets available, ignoring fine print that is deliberately too long and complicated to read and compare from one airline to another. As long as airlines can sell tickets too confusing to compare, they can appear to compete on price while really competing on confusion. Airlines have a right to re-sell a no-show's empty seat, and in fact they should do that rather than wasting fuel flying empty seats, but where they must accomodate a "must-ride" (e.g. the Dao case) they should be required to offer enough to get volunteers instead of ejecting passengers from seats the passengers had paid for.

BTW, Scott Adams described this type of "market" very well as a "Confusopoly". It applies especially strongly in the medical insurance sector. As long as they can keep you confused and asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about your answers. As long as they can confuse the market, they don't really need to compete on value.

Ironman says

-

Does Ironman even understand that if the employment rate is hitting a 10 year low right after the end of Eight years of Obama, and a few months of Trump what that means ?

Does Ironman understand what it means if the stock market is hitting new highs right after the end of Eight years of Obama ?

It means that trends that have been going for many years have continued a few months into the Trump Presidency.

Ironman says

Is it Time to Impeach Trump??

Not sure whether impeachment is the route to go.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/04/24/psychiatry-experts-claim-that-trump-is-unfit-for-presidency-due-to-dangerous-mental-illness/

“We have an ethical responsibility to warn the public about Donald Trump’s dangerous mental illness,” Gartner said, according to The Independent.

He cited Trump’s claim of having the largest inauguration audience in American history as proof of the president’s mental illness.

“Worse than just being a liar or a narcissist, in addition he is paranoid, delusional and grandiose thinking and he proved that to the country the first day he was president,” Gartner said. “If Donald Trump really believes he had the largest crowd size in history, that’s delusional.”

I believe this is a legitimate point. I know you guys think the lies are all really nifty, but what if he truly truly believes them ?

The petition, titled “Mental Health Professionals Declare Trump is Mentally Ill and Must Be Removed,” was signed by more than 50,000 people who self-reported as mental health professionals.

“As some prominent psychiatrists have noted, [Trump’s mental health] is the elephant in the room,” Dr. Bandy Lee, the conference organizer and assistant clinical professor at Yale University, said. “I think the public is really starting to catch on and widely talk about this now.”

Perhaps the most troubling comments came from Dr. James Gilligan, a psychiatrist and professor at New York University, who compared the danger of Trump to that of a convicted murderer or rapist, The Independent reported:

I’ve worked with some of the most dangerous people our society produces, directing mental health programs in prisons. I’ve worked with murderers and rapists. I can recognize dangerousness from a mile away. You don’t have to be an expert on dangerousness or spend 50 years studying it like I have in order to know how dangerous this man is.

Ironman says

One-Third Of Americans Are On Government Healthcare

...at a cost that exceeds what other countries spend to cover their entire populations, even adjusting for differences in populations. The cost differential results mainly from waste, fraud, and abuse (including profiteering) in the American medical insurance Confusopoly, including government insurance. We have legislation written by and for political patronage networks, not public health. Why do CHIP and other government programs cover toxic placebos and disproven modalities? Because, on Capitol Hill, the drug companies never lose. Why do American hospitals charge 3x-10x more than hospitals anywhere else in the world, often for worse results? Because, with $1T/yr in revenue, mostly from government, they can buy even more politicians than Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. If you thought only the Military Industrial Complex could buy politicians and get people killed for power and profit, look again at the medical industrial complex. The game continues because people refuse to ask the right questions.

Why should you be required to pay more than $100bn/yr for coverage mandates that cover modalities with a 90% failure rate? When a lucrative drug or treatment fails, the revenue recipients pay politicians to mandate coverage. Why should you be required to pay for excessive diagnostic radiation that confers no benefit but increases the risk of cancer and premature death? Cynical practitioners call it "investing in future patients": killing people sooner and more expensively increases revenues, which are increasing even as life expectancy is falling due to Obamneycare.

Instead of demanding that coverage should be limited to things that are clearly effective, i.e. at least a 50% difference compared to doing nothing, people obsess over who will be covered and who will pay. As long as they can keep you divided and trolling each other about "pre-existing conditions," they don't have to worry about you seeing through the game.

Now that the House of Representatives has voted to change Obamneycare, healthcare is "in play." That gives you a chance, if you care. Write your Senators and tell them you see through the game. Tell them that "essential benefits" are by definition only those things that are clearly (a) essential and (b) beneficial. Toxic placebos and disproved modalities are neither essential nor beneficial, and should not be covered.

Don't be fooled by the endless divide & misrule game. YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR GENUINELY COMPREHENSIVE NATIONAL HEALTHCARE, you are simply not getting it. Instead, you are getting robbed by patronage networks that lard up coverage mandates with crap that shouldn't even be legal let alone covered. They keep you divided and distracted with their false binary frames.

Tell your Senators to replace current patronage revenue maximization programs with true emergency coverage for everyone, and to add in vaccine coverage so we don't see so many morons spreading measles. BTW, did you know Somali Muslims can also be anti-vaxxers who spread measles to other kids? Now you know. Something to think about before you insist we must pay to import more of them, as if we didn't already have too many anti-vaxxers in the school system.

Ironman says

Oh Marcus, go look at what the market did for the two previous years before Trump won in November and report back what you find. (I know you won't do that, as it will destroy your narrative)

It's not unusual for the market to consolidate before or after a big move. This is only a testing stage coming out of that consolidation. But we know that Obama presided over a move in the S & P of over 1000 points. Sure it's up a few hundred point since Trump was elected. All aboard !

Ironman says

Do you really believe that crap?

Yes. Unlike you I don't dispute facts.

P.S. bob2356 regarding your chart of Medicare spending and the gap between that and total annual spending on and by Americans over 65, consider this:

"A majority of people over age 65 will require some type of long-term care services during their lifetime, and over 40 percent of people will need a period of care in a nursing home, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. The cost of that care can financially cripple a family.
***
In 2012, a private room cost an average of $248 daily, or more than $90,500 annually, according to a 2012 survey by MetLife. A semi-private room ran $222 daily, or more than $81,000 per year."

Those daily room costs are not generally covered by Medicare. Patients must pay privately, either via insurance if they have it, or using up all of their assets until they are bankrupt and become eligibile for Medicaid. Elliemae has written extensively about the waste, fraud, and abuse in these facilities, and anyone who has visited can tell you most of them are not worth nearly what they cost at least considering the level of service that the same money could buy elsewhere.

Ironman says

Marcus, I'm trying to figure out if you're just plain dishonest or.... if you just don't see reality.... Which is it??

S and P for the last 2 years of Obama:

You should look into the way markets behave and then get back to me. Markets make large moves then consolidate. Yes there was a consolidation phase (the last couple years) after the move of 1000 points in the S & P that occurred during the Obama years. The consolidation phase is referred to by some as the "cause" period of the move that follows.

But this could be a head fake.

curious2 says

P.S. bob2356 regarding your chart of Medicare spending and the gap between that and total annual spending on and by Americans over 65, consider this:

Which chart specifically?

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

More unnerving, they seem to be able to ambulate without moving their feet or knees.

Maybe they're really fembots with machine gun jubblies! Yeah, baby!

bob2356 says

Which chart specifically?

The chart you posted that omitted Medicare "Advantage" among other things.

Ironman says

The ONLY way the market went up under Obama was because of the printing of $4.5 TRILLION and moving rates to zero.

Monetary policy has always been there, going back many decades, it's just that becasue of the liquidity trap that ensued after the crash o 08, the only tool the fed had was QE, becasue you can't lower rates when they're at zero unless you want to go negative.

At least you're finally honest enough to acknowledge that history didn't start 2 years ago. I'm surprised.

So let's assume that you're right and that the thousand point up under Obama are due to QE. THen, when QE stops and the market consolidates intead of going back down, don't you have to credit that to OBama ?

Also, considering that Trump is promising to spend like a drunken sailor and cut taxes like crazy, on corporations, shouldn't the market be up more ? Maybe the reason it's not is the extreme uncertainty caused by having an unstable President ?

So what does that say about liberal policies such as way overboard political correctness, illegal immigrant safe zones, and refugee/immigration from un-vettable bronze age countries promoting terrorism, that half the country would rather put a crazy person in power than suffer another 4 years of the above?

marcus says

Ironman says

Is it Time to Impeach Trump??

Not sure whether impeachment is the route to go.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/04/24/psychiatry-experts-claim-that-trump-is-unfit-for-presidency-due-to-dangerous-mental-illness/

BlueSardine says

So what does that say about liberal policies such as way overboard political correctness, illegal immigrant safe zones, and refugee/immigration from un-vettable bronze age countries promoting terrorism, that half the country would rather put a crazy person in power than suffer another 4 years of the above?

I like your choice of issues.

What it says is that propaganda can be used to manipulate the idiot population over issues that aren't even big issues.

1) Politcal correctness ? Yeah, identity politics has gone too far, but only in the sense that it triggers "what about me" idiots that blow it out of proportion. So I'm not for it, but mostly becasue of how easy it is for right wing media to manipulate you guys over it.

2) Illegal immigration has not been increasing for more than a decade. So we have a con artist that has lied that he's going to turn it around or make them leave ? Or is it that he's not going to let them leave ?

3) Syria is bronze age country promoting terrorism ? Do you even know the story of what led up to the current problems in Syria ?

So we can't help 1000 refugees (after extreme vetting (not a new thing)) becasue of some non zero risk that one of them is a terrorist ?

marcus says

Does Ironman even understand that if the employment rate is hitting a 10 year low right after the end of Eight years of Obama,

Trump knows those numbers are still grossly padded with Obama's bogus numbers.
If Trump leaves Obama's math as is and does not fix it, Trump will have -6 unemployment rate in 4 years.
He's using Obama's lies and propaganda systems in place to use against Liberal media trying to break him down.
Look how wonderful jobs growth is everybody!

The Washington Post
"Democracy Dies in Darkness"

Nothing is darker than Republican voters.

marcus says

shouldn't the market be up more ? Maybe the reason it's not is the extreme uncertainty caused by having an unstable President ?

High price and no mans land has caused the largest measure of uncertainty but obviously has not stopped the march. Attempting to invest from fundamental information takes .
time and since that's how most make their decisions to execute trades I would be surprised anyone should think it is out of standard for the markets to be reacting any other way then they are.

How many Retard Republicans are on Private Socialized insurance?
They don't want govt. involvement/tax dollars in healthcare,but have to pay premiums
to cover other FAILURE Republicans that can't pay cash.
Free market companies should charge whatever they want for health ins.
You don't like it,then DIE! you haters of CAPITALISM.

Surely you have an excuse for your ignorance.
It must be ignorance,no one could be that hypocritically stupid.

If you want to see what difference the Trump effect has had on our markets go to the lows of S$P 2009 and run a trend line from those lows to
the middle of 2015 highs, then do the same from the last lows at the beginning of last year up threw today which is when companies had no choice but to
hedge Trump with the possibility of being elected so in reality I would assign the last 14mos. to the Trump effect likely due for the most part deregulation.
Companies don't wait for the last minute in the markets dog eat dog world.

marcus says

He cited Trump’s claim of having the largest inauguration audience in American history as proof of the president’s mental illness.

“Worse than just being a liar or a narcissist, in addition he is paranoid, delusional and grandiose thinking and he proved that to the country the first day he was president,” Gartner said. “If Donald Trump really believes he had the largest crowd size in history, that’s delusional.”

marcus, check your facts. You've been lied to. go back and read exactly what trump and spicer said about the inauguration. Hint: its perfectly reasonable, w support of facts. if you find something you feel is wildly off, share it. I dont think you'll find it.

marcus says

“We have an ethical responsibility to warn the public about Donald Trump’s dangerous mental illness,” Gartner said, according to The Independent.

The rest of the mental health community has an ethical responsibility to take Gartner's license away. No respectable professional would pretend to diagnose someone with zero clinical knowledge of them. Again, you've been lied to. Be better than this.

marcus says

THen, when QE stops and the market consolidates intead (SIC) of going back down, don't you have to credit that to OBama ?

Lol. Who did you trade for on the floor?

Yay, the stock market is up over 3 months. Let's see how it looks in 4 or 8 years.

marcus says

Yeah, identity politics has gone too far, but only in the sense that it triggers "what about me" idiots that blow it out of proportion.

Perhaps you didnt see the SJW who attacked 4 white males on UT campus last week, killing one of them. Perhaps you missed the 4 thugs in chicago who kidnapped a trump supporter and tortured him for over a day. Perhaps you missed antifa throwing bricks and violently attacking any gathering of ideas they disagree with. Perhaps you missed the business man who refuses to hire or work with any registered republican. Perhaps you missed the google/youtube/FB censoring of political material that questions the SJW/Liberal agenda. Perhaps you never read the book 1984 or read about Nazi Germany.

Those silly Jews in the early days of Nazi german must have just been "idiots that blow it out of proportion." If this is your attitude, than you are part of the problem.

Tenpoundbass says

Trump knows those numbers are still grossly padded with Obama's bogus numbers.

IT's not Obama's numbers. It's the way employment numbers have been calculated for decades. When people stop looking or take a job at walmart or driving for uber, they're no longer unemployed.

Can't tel whether you're really as delusional as you act, or whether you're just a Russian troll.

CBOEtrader says

erhaps you missed the google/youtube/FB censoring of political material that questions the SJW/Liberal agenda. Perhaps you never read the book 1984 or read about Nazi Germany.

Those silly Jews in the early days of Nazi german must have just been "idiots that blow it out of proportion." If this is your attitude, than you are part of the problem.

Hahaha ! You're amazing. We just had for the first time ever an American President elected in large part becasue of racist rhetoric, and an appeal to authoritarian personality types and you're going to say that the whackjobs SJWs that represent less than one half of one percent of the country are some danger to us becoming like Nazi germany ?

OH wait, that's right Trump's rhetoric wasn't racist. He's just reacting to authoritarians trying to say racism is unnacceptable. It's the PC police that Trump is reacting too. He's not really saying that Mexicans are rapists or that he doesn't know who David Duke is. "What's this white supremacy you're referring to ? I would have to know what it is before I could denounce it." (paraphrasing Trump).

Unfuckingbelievable. This Trump thing has you full blown emotionally bonkers.

marcus says

CBOEtrader says

erhaps you missed the google/youtube/FB censoring of political material that questions the SJW/Liberal agenda. Perhaps you never read the book 1984 or read about Nazi Germany.

Those silly Jews in the early days of Nazi german must have just been "idiots that blow it out of proportion." If this is your attitude, than you are part of the problem.

Hahaha ! You're amazing. We just had for the first time ever an American President elected in large part becasue of racist rhetoric, and an appeal to authoritarian personality types and you're going to say that the whackjobs SJWs that represent less than one half of one percent of the country are some danger to us becoming like Nazi germany ?

You are indeed becoming like Nazi Germany.

I notice you didn't mention a single fact. Try to show me where the left has been systemically oppressed or violently attacked for expressing 1st amendment rights. You can't. Yet this is what is happening to trump supporters or even peoople who just think for themselves today.

Today's left is the most terrifying, disgusting, tyrannical group I've seen in my lifetime. You are one step from being full blown nazis

marcus says

We just had for the first time ever an American President elected in large part becasue of racist rhetoric,

Your willingness to accept team propaganda is amazing. This is exactly how nazi Germany happened and why it will happen again.

This is exactly why trump will win again. I didn't vote for him last election but i certainly will in the next election after watching the lefts continued degrade into racist tyranny.

marcus says

I don't know a sigle person on the left

You havent been paying attention because oppression of other people doesnt affect you.

marcus says

I don't know a sigle person on the left that approves of the (AGAIN LESS THAN 1% of the LEFT) dipshit children having their tantrums.

Where as you assholes - something like 40% of the country elected Donald Trump !!!

You see how you equate a violent terrorist group to trump supporters? You are a full on koolaid drinker. This is the exact same reasoning the antifa uses to attack trump supporters. Its the same reason the media, celebrities on the left, and all the other regressive left used to rationalize violent, organized oppression. People like you normalize this type of violence and passively support it.

You, sir, are part of the problem. Look in the mirror and blame yourself for trump.