patrick.net

HEY YOU says

"productive conversations." only apply as long as everyone agrees or at least as long as Snowflakes agree?

That's a straw man argument. I never said anything that could even remotely be interpreted as that by any reasonable person.

HEY YOU says

Free Speech is about one being able to say what they choose.

Saying "we should drown puppies in the river" is free speech. Shouting it with a megaphone into someone's ear is not.

Free speech is about content, not tactics. It's about function, not form. It's about the message, not the delivery.

I have never, ever prevented or hindered someone from making a counter-argument, no matter how flawed, nor have I ever avoided addressing any person's question even the ones that are obvious traps and gotchas. My approach has always been to directly contradict the person's thesis with evidence and reasoning. I challenge you to find one example where I do not do this.

You assertion that I avoid conversations with those I disagree with is unfounded. I welcome all challenges. However, trolling is not challenging. Trolls do not express differing opinions or counter-arguments. They destroy conversation and debate. There is a huge difference between a person presenting a compelling counter-argument and a troll like piggy. It is ludicrous to even compare the two.

To prove my point beyond any doubt, I reissue my standing challenge to debate any person on any subject in a thread moderated by Patrick and judged by real world judges with debate experience. There is no subject and no idea that I am afraid to address or debate. None. If you do not understand that, you do not understand me. The fact is that the best possible debate to me is one that changes my position on a subject. That, to me, is the ultimate victory.

YesYNot says

Online, everything gets posted, so nobody gets silenced. It's a different issue

There are some difference, but ultimately it's the same thing. Think of how many conversations just stopped when piggy made them into poo flinging session. The fact is that flame wars disrupt free speech. You cannot hold a rational conversation in the middle of a flame war. It has never worked. It will never work.

Furthermore, countless intelligent and rational people have not joined PatNet and participated in conversations because of these flame wars. They make PatNet look like a bunch of whining, immature brats arguing about who's dick is bigger. What person would want to join in on that?

Dan8267 says

Personally, I'd like to see new people posting.

I think I could get the audience to grow by consistently posting a list of housing newslinks again, but it was a ton of work to filter out the crap and come up with 10 to 20 links worth reading each day.

CIC was a previous version of the Ironman alias. The other 'aliases' had different login credentials. They were a different user from the same IP.

Yes, CIC was the same user as Ironman. Both of them had user_ID 27600.

You can change your username, but you can't change your user_ID.

You can also re-register and get a new user_ID, and he did that as well, with the aliases given above.

rando says

10 to 20 links worth reading each day

I don't think you need 10 to 20 links a day. Two good ones would be useful. It's about time in the housing cycle that interest in discussing housing / personal finance might have some draw. Of course what everybody wants to know is when is the next crash. There are other trends/topics that might be of interest: What is the effect of demographic changes in CA? How is the illegal crack-down going to impact CA? Is there truly is going to be a white flight or business flight trend as some suggest, or is that a false doom prophecy? What are the income / wealth trends in and around big cities? Do those incomes and wealth profiles support the increasingly high prices in the more attractive cities? Can Trump increase the economic growth and increase interest rates while kicking immigrants out? There are lots of questions that come to mind for me. Maybe the first thing is to have a thread where we identify some of the more interesting questions on this topic. Then, we can generate threads on each one.

Patrick should really re-order that list alphabetically.

Looked up definition of doxing. Did he really do that?

rando says

I think I could get the audience to grow by consistently posting a list of housing newslinks

PatNet as a housing forum? It would never work.

Drunk Jazz sounds like a music genre.

I have looked at this list several times now and it has made me laugh every time. The image of and an adult person coming up with these usernames and going through the trouble of registering them...

Thanks for the entertainment, Patrick and Ironman.

jazz music says

Trump is the daily clown show that distracts from less juicy but more substantial subjects, this could be by design too while GS, GOP congress, Gerrymandered states, ALEC, Exxon-Mobile, and the military get their heavy lifting done with negligible resistance while all the dogs are barking at Trump.

There's a lot of truth in this.

Trump causes absolute apoplexy among the media elitists on the coasts, because they are worried that their world view is being exposed as false and harmful. Trump has no problem telling the truth to everyone and not only surviving their usual smear tactics, but thriving on them and getting elected.

* Illegal immigrants are breaking the law and driving down wages for citizens.
* Women enjoy the attention of rich and powerful men, even when (especially when) they are pussy grabbers.
* Islam is an ultra-violent subversive movement disguised as a religion, dedicated to the annihilation of the same tolerance that lets it exist in the West.
* Globalization has been devastating for American industry and has severely weakened the country.

Anyway, yes, the whole circus is also a useful means for others to accomplish their goals while the legacy press keeps the public distracted with news about Trump's hair or whatever.

rando says

OK, I'm just too tired of Ironman's consistent hostility to the other users.

Never happened to me, honestly. His counters to my posts/threads where actually quite a bit more civil and level-headed than many of the regulars on this board.

Patrick I'll make you a good old American business deal, if ironman promises not to publish people's personal info again I'll pay $10 for his unban. I didn't know he done that.

It is your site so whatever you say goes.

FortWayne says

Patrick I'll make you a good old American business deal, if ironman promises not to publish people's personal info again I'll pay $10 for his unban. I didn't know he done that.

It is your site so whatever you say goes.

Haven't heard from him, but I'm really tired of his personal attacks on the other users.

rando says

FortWayne says

Patrick I'll make you a good old American business deal, if ironman promises not to publish people's personal info again I'll pay $10 for his unban. I didn't know he done that.

It is your site so whatever you say goes.

Haven't heard from him, but I'm really tired of his personal attacks on the other users.

Hey FortWayne, i think you need to offer him a little bit more. $10,000 ought to work.

Dan8267 says

HEY YOU says

"productive conversations." only apply as long as everyone agrees or at least as long as Snowflakes agree?

That's a straw man argument. I never said anything that could even remotely be interpreted as that by any reasonable person.

HEY YOU says

Free Speech is about one being able to say what they choose.

Saying "we should drown puppies in the river" is free speech. Shouting it with a megaphone into someone's ear is not.

Free speech is about content, not tactics. It's about function, not form. It's about the message, not the delivery.

I have never, ever prevented or hindered someone from making a counter-argument, no matter how flawed, nor have I ever avoided addressing any person's question even the ones that are obvious traps and gotchas. My appro...

Well that's a fine argument based on your value system.

But here, like elsewhere, there was always someone willing to argue with him and give him space

-----------

Bingo. Take Dan for instance. CiC is gone and he's STILL posting unfunny, redundant crap about goats and anal lube.

Engaging him regularly is pretty much as bad as what CiC did. Often in life, the retaliation is the crime worse than the instigation

Comey's innocent...

Putin Fanboy says

Having a mancrush on a bombastic douchebag speaks volumes about your character.

Despite how I feel about Ironman, FortWayne's comment actually displays some general compassion and camaraderie.

What do you think the comment of yours above says about you?

I disagree it's not camaraderie, it's yearning for protection in numbers. Most of the people that root for Ironman are those whose arguments are weak and easily broken down by the same opposing forces that Ironman spent much time harassing. So since they feel defeated, they root for their troll to fling poo at their opposition . It's sad

errc says

Bingo. Take Dan for instance. CiC is gone and he's STILL posting unfunny, redundant crap about goats and anal lube.

You noticed that too. Dan starts the animal sex/fat naked people posts a lot of the time then bitches about ironman posting about it. That would be the same dan who is always crying hypocrite.

Oops, sorry the site was wedged for 3 and a half minutes while I was altering the database.

Should be all OK now.

People tend to gravitate towards topics they are intimately familiar with, as it gives them an edge up in a debate

errc says

-----------

Bingo. Take Dan for instance. CiC is gone and he's STILL posting unfunny, redundant crap about goats and anal lube.

jazz music says

Summary by the numbers.

Feels inferior, lies like crazy, extremely fragile, no empathy, drinks a lot, lacks awareness, feels sex shame, feels unsuccessful, questions HIS OWN mental stability

Damn, that's the best psycho-analysis I've ever heard.

HEY YOU says

Well that's a fine argument based on your value system.

I can stand proudly by my values, and I follow them consistently. I'll go toe to toe with anyone who wants to virtue signal.

errc says

Bingo. Take Dan for instance. CiC is gone and he's STILL posting unfunny, redundant crap about goats and anal lube.

Just because you don't find it funny doesn't mean other people don't. I can't help you if you lack a sense of humor. Ironically, your avatar, Jim Carrey, would probably have laughed at that joke.

bob2356 says

You noticed that too. Dan starts the animal sex/fat naked people posts a lot of the time then bitches about ironman posting about it. That would be the same dan who is always crying hypocrite.

You can paint me anyway you want, but that's a reflection of you, not me. I've called piggy out on being uncreative. That's not bitching. I understand you loathe me, but quite frankly, I don't think of you or piggy or any other troll other than when I'm ridiculing you. Put simply, I'm a better man than you will ever be. I don't have to resort to lying about others.

Dan8267 says

I've called piggy out on being uncreative.

You are clearly much more creative than piggy, but that's not saying much. He's gone now, and still trolling you from the metaphorical grave. The goat anal jokes should be retired, imo. Set your sites higher.

Your well made arguments are much more impressive than the goat jokes, although I enjoyed an occasional ironman goat love smack down.

Dan8267 says

bob2356 says

You noticed that too. Dan starts the animal sex/fat naked people posts a lot of the time then bitches about ironman posting about it. That would be the same dan who is always crying hypocrite.

You can paint me anyway you want, but that's a reflection of you, not me. I've called piggy out on being uncreative. That's not bitching. I understand you loathe me, but quite frankly, I don't think of you or piggy or any other troll other than when I'm ridiculing you. Put simply, I'm a better man than you will ever be. I don't have to resort to lying about others.

If you were a better man than anyone we wouldn't be reading your animal sex/fat people pictures garbage that you frequently post first in your flame wars with cic. You being a hypocrite is a fact not a reflection on anyone but you.

Why would i loathe you? I feel sorry for you is the only emotion I have concerning you. Your ego, insecurity, self importance, and immaturity (the last being the cause of the first three) leads to lowering yourself to the depths that you would post such garbage while being incapable of any type of self reflection that would improve the situation. You really believe that when you do the same things you criticize others for it's right. That it's a just cause when you do it and trolling/lying when anyone else does it.

Dan8267 says

I've called piggy out on being uncreative. That's not bitching.

That is trump level bullshit self justification spin. What is really sad is you honestly believe it. If you were truly the better man you believe yourself to be you would own up, man up, and grow up.

Ouch. Now that's a smack down

YesYNot says

He's gone now, and still trolling you from the metaphorical grave.

Hahaha, Ironman - the ultimate troll, I like it. You see what we'll be missing now?

rando says

* Illegal immigrants are breaking the law and driving down wages for citizens.

* Women enjoy the attention of rich and powerful men, even when (especially when) they are pussy grabbers.

* Islam is an ultra-violent subversive movement disguised as a religion, dedicated to the annihilation of the same tolerance that lets it exist in the West.

* Globalization has been devastating for American industry and has severely weakened the country.

Or
Legal immigrants bring up the global GDP per capita, even if some (typically low productivity) sectors loose. Global competition is much worse for this sectors.
Women love alpha male, but only the most stupid ones love 'alpha-money' men; and really stupid/greed ones think pussy grabbing is a technique with prospects. desperate I don't have a problem with that, since I don't care about that type.
The ultra-violent islam also terrorizes the mainstram islam. College educated islam for other coutries are less likely to be violent than ignorant Islamic people already living in USA (or those who convert to Islam)
Globalization is the best think that can happen to a country overall, but some sectors loose. It was true on Adam Smith and David Ricardo times and it hasn't change. Merchantilist Europe is a lesson not to repeat

There are always another sides of an argument, but Trump gives an f about the argument. Any counter argument is a conspiracy. Wrong or right, other presidents try to reach to academics insights to make their points. He is is good at making people thing with their guts.

bob2356 says

You being a hypocrite is a fact not a reflection on anyone but you.

A hypocrisy involves a contradiction. Name one time I contradicted myself.

bob2356 says

Why would i loathe you?

You're triggered. I never intended that, but special snowflakes like you get trigger for no good reason. Quite frankly, you've made ad hominem attacks on me about as much as I've made against piggy, and that's hypocrisy.
bob2356 says

That it's a just cause when you do it and trolling/lying when anyone else does it.

I've counter-trolled, but I've never trolled. There is a huge difference. Trolls disrupt conversations. Counter-trolls make the trolls feel bad when they do. Purpose matters.

As for lying, I have never stated a lie on this website, ever. I challenge you to find a single lie I've told in the 26,720 comments I've made. You can't do that, and that makes you the liar. By the way, this is a standing challenge for anyone in the world.

Lying would entirely defeat the purpose of debate according to my values. To convince someone of a falsehood would be to lose a debate. The entire purpose of debate is to demonstrate the truth of your position. Not only does success require convincing the others, but it requires convincing others for the right reason. It requires that others understand why your position is correct. Any deception completely defeats that purpose. This is why I am morally and ethically superior to you. You frequently lie because you believe that convincing others is the end goal and it justifies any means. To me, understanding why true things are true is the end goal, and deception can never serve that purpose.

bob2356 says

Dan8267 says

I've called piggy out on being uncreative. That's not bitching.

That is trump level bullshit self justification spin.

No, it's not. You are just labeling it bitching because you are trying to poison the well with and ad hominem. Your hypocrisy is as create as piggy's.
errc says

Ouch. Now that's a smack down

Translation: I also hate Dan, so I'll support anyone attacking him.

You two are like third graders calling classmates names on the schoolyard, except you lack the creativity to do it in a funny way. I may be a smart ass, even arrogant at times, but I'm far more mature than either of you. The only question I have is which of you is trying to take piggy's place on PatNet.

In the interest of the PatNet community, I will offer you a one-time olive branch. We will never like each other and will never have a productive conversation, so let's go our separate ways and never speak of or to each other again. That's probably the best we can do, and PatNet would be better if people who obviously dislike each other simply stopped talking to each other.

You boys sure do a lot of what you say is unacceptable when others do it.

Putin Fanboy says

FortWayne says

Patrick I'll make you a good old American business deal, if ironman promises not to publish people's personal info again I'll pay $10 for his unban.

Having a mancrush on a bombastic douchebag speaks volumes about your character.

#fanboy

Nobody should be harassing people outside of this site, other than that I don't think people should be banned.

Was?

errc says

I disagree it's not camaraderie, it's yearning for protection in numbers.

Or it's not being easily offended by morons on the internet. Maybe some of you just need to congregate in your safe space where ironmen can't make you feel bad.

For me it's about free speech, and not being such pussies.

FortWayne says

For a minute I thought you were describing Dan there and few others.

HilARIOUS

NuttBoxer says

Is this the same as the Dodgerfan situation?

What was the Dogerfan situation?