patrick.net

Oh come on people -- don't you understand; we have intangibles here! I mean, where else can you get a cable car ride?
Oakland, high crime? Must you believe everything you hear about in the media -- I mean they can't even get the rents right :-)

Randy H. - love your "no counteroffer" bid strategy. Now that would make a great reality TV show. Would like to be a fly on the wall when the RE Agent presents to the client; they may as well just dowse them with a cup of cold water.

The Sierra Club does make some good points regarding where you live and how you spend your income (although it does assume lending standards that seem to have already been uhhh... bent). They recommend a loosening of standards in urban areas.
"Most homeowners devote about 55 percent of their income to housing and transportation costs combined. Families in suburban areas spend 30 percent on their homes and 25 percent or more on their cars. Those in urban neighborhoods with good transit spend a mere 10 percent getting around but 45 percent on their homes."
http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200509/lol.asp

They recommend a loosening of standards in urban areas.

See, nothing good ever comes out of the Sierra Club. I will not waste time on anything they say.

But why is LI's rent soo high? Does it have too much tenants rights? Or does it have very high property tax?

Those in urban neighborhoods with good transit spend a mere 10 percent getting around but 45 percent on their homes.

Robert, please debunk the heresy.

Let me chime in about the south. I did a stupid thing late last year. I got so fed up with the housing situation in LA that I moved 2500 hundred miles to SC. I've been here 10 months and I can tell you besides the miserable sauna like summer the cultural divide exist. Aside from Charleston there is nothing of interest they are about twenty years behind and they do not accept west coasters readily. As oon as I get a decent job offer I'm outta here. They think we are all liberal druggies (californians) talk about ignorant. Even the monied are schrill....

I think also that the divorce rate is pretty high and you find these single guys who have to become renters.

Single women have to become renters too. More money for the lawyers. :)

"Uh, was there ever really an economy on Long Island? Other than Roosevelt Field Mall, real estate, potato farming, and fighting Shoreham?

No, there never was, but shhhhhhhhhhhh! Don’t ruin it for them, they think it has a really strong economy! "

I spent my HS years in Shoreham, just at the peak of the fighting Shoreham thing. There are no potato farms left out there. It morphed into sod farming after the potato crops failed, and now on the north fork it is nurseries and vineyards. Everywhere else it seems that the sod farms turned into McMansion developments.

I go back every now and again because my folks are still there and I tell you, there is truth to the "you can never go home" statement. As long as you live within a few blocks of the beach and don't have to go anywhere, you have about 7 weeks in the summer when it's wonderful. For the rest, you can have it. I hate it now and am glad I left.

Peter P.

LI has INSANE property tax. There are also an awful lot of human beings there and there is only one way off of that place and that is through NYC. It's a trap and once there, they will have their way with you.

David J,

Good post. Some people here have suggested the "inflating our way out of the bubble" possibility, with rising rents (and possibly wages) coming in line with current housing prices. The problem with that route is just what you mentioned. Who the hell will pay those inflated rents? Salaries just won't support that right now. Salaries don't support housing prices, but that's because funny money fills in the difference. There is a LONG way to go before the rent vs. buy equation makes financial sense on the buy side. Of course, that's looking at it from a purely financial standpoint.

No, they get to keep the house along with the children. The guy has to help pay the mortgage through child support.

Another reason to be a stay-at-home dad. Then perhaps you will be paid child support. :)

I think divorce should be made more difficult, as it has too much negative externalities. It should require nothing less than a compelling case and court approval.

Allah,

The western suburbs of Richmond VA. I know I know...Richmond has arguably one of the worst reputations on planet earth, but you know what, for where I am in life (mid 40's, married, kid in middle school), it's really pretty good. Good schools, safe where we are, good sense of community, friendly neighbors. We've been here for 12 years (moved here from Boston), and the move was a good one. When my kid goes to college, we'll probably leave, but until then, as I said it's pretty good.

It can get kinda hot in the summer though.

In active job search now. Primarily western US. Actually when I drove out last January I went I-40 across I wanted to go thru north western NC\Asheville beautiful drive. I live between Sumter and Mrytle Beach basically alot of foresed swamps.

Actually, they should make marriage more difficult. Couple should be required to live with each other for a year or two before being allowed to marry!

If you make divorce difficult, people will not take marriage so lightly.

A vow is a contract.

@allah,

Is the divorce rate really particularly high in LI? I've never heard that statistic. I've heard about the high breast cancer rate there, though.

I had lived in GA, and NC when I was married. My ex was a full bird USA we moved a few times. The last time I'd lived in the southeast was 85 so I thought I could hang. Well this time was different I didn't feel like I could stay for years. And let me tell you guys I could buy a house outright here for 150K at least 1600 sq ft. It' not the cost of living it's the area and lack of amenities.

Not true. People are always optimistic. They get married never thinking that it will fail. They buy houses never thinking it will lose value “not in my town”.

After they see their friends getting stuck with no way out they will be much less optimistic.

@David J,

Please read my post from October 19th, 2006 at 2:14 pm from the previous thread: http://patrick.net/wp/?p=336#comments

i think it has a lot to do with money or lack of it.

It is more about faith. Not only in God but also in humanity itself.

Crashlander said: "1950 is awsome if you are a straight white republican male christian family man veteran hunter beer drinker who eats meat at every meal.
otherwise its boring."

LOL this is very very true of the South. You have to have an adventurous spirit and really look pretty hard to amuse yourself if you do not fit that mold. However, rest assured, it can be done. There are like minded people, but you will not meet them at the mall, that's for sure.

Yeah.. I picked up on that hostilty from some folks. The company that brought me out here have some churchy types. They think I'm weird because I don't go to church. In fact I feel I'm judged because of it it's like they don't accept difference. You can't even buy booze on sunday and the stores don't open til 1:30 in the afternoon sundays. It's very apparent that the religous right rule this state.

They think I’m weird because I don’t go to church.

Some of my friends think that I am weird because I eat veal.

It's like Sushi? What's that? the ethnic diverse cuisine we have in CA we take for granted. I think we've been exposed to more so we forget others have a more limite life experience. But at the same time what you see here is very unsophisticated.

I see you don’t know too much about LI.

No, I don't. Nearly all of our friends in the Bay Area are divorced though. I guess they have too much faith on humanity, thinking that someone "better" is always out there.

Makes me understand finally once and for all that living in california is about opportunity cost not just merely cost of living. We have more diversity and infusion of different cultures. We are more metropolitan and global. There are parts of the south that are still like the Johnson era 60's.

I wonder how it would be if not for cable or the internet?

We have more diversity and infusion of different cultures.

True. Better food too!

If I have my way and can convince my BF I'll be back in 07.

@Sylvie,
But I've heard good things about the relatively cosmopolitan nature of the research triangle (Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill), Charlotte, Asheville, and yes allah, Atlanta. Also, at least architecturally, Savannah, Charleston and maybe a few other places seem beautiful. I just wonder if many of "us" Californians are too Cali-centric.

LILL was right right when she told me there s no place like home...

What factors influence rents like rent control, cost basis / mortgage of the landlord, taxes, maint. etc.. Why didn’t all property owners try to cash out like so many condo conversions?

I live in the north midlands primarily forested swamp area. The coast is as expensive as San Fran especially Hilton Head\Charleston. Alot of mexiacan illegals are infiltrating Georgia in fact there is alot of tension ith the local balck population to this newest invasion. Seems that we're exporting our cheap slave labor forces to the south. I've seen alot since I moved here.

Thanks HARM. It looks like I'm a day late and a dollar short. Had I seen that I would'nt have bothered posting!

You see the illegals building homes here and in all the service industries. The wealthy business owners love cheap labor. If they build a fence it's going to stretch all the way to Florida. More coming each month because it's even cheaper here to live.

They are competing with the lower income service industry jobs and they'll work cheaper. It's causing racial tension with african americans down here.

I do really see a time coming soon when we'll see prices revert to 2000. Wages have notdoubled and tripled in five years. The imbalance can't last besides the current GOP s toast and so is the pandering to wealth. Middle class people would eventually revolt.

Goober:

You are so right and I'll never buy into that even if I do move back. I won't pay over 200K period or I'll never own. You can't convince me that the same homes I use to drive past on my way to work on the same land magically turned to gold in five years! If everyone in california said no f'ing way prices would not have gotten where they are now. In fact the frst person who agreed to the inflated price started it all. These stupid sellers would not have the expection they do if not for conditioning. We will pay what we will pay and not a penny more!

I worked all my life I'm older than you and raised two kids. I had to start all or at 42 yeah it sucks... But I have a fico in the mid 700's, low debt, and cash reserve. I had a realtor tell me in 2001 that 50k wasn't enough of a down payment. Yeah I guess if the average house is 500k! who has 100-150k in cash for a 15-20% down. How outrageous!

I guess I'm just one of those stupid chicks who won't turn goldigger just to get a house. My thinking is if I don't buy it myself it isn't mine. Lesson learned from asset division of property(divorce). You can lose it only if you default not the same as shared asset.

I hope we see some major revision in lending standards and practices next year. Throw in a recession and maybe this thing will turnout right for us who've lived responcibly. It seems everything is ass backwards those who are frivilous and spend beyond thier means are rewarded.

I haven't owned a home since 2000

I bought in Aug 1996(2740sq.ft) for 238K. In Aug 2001 I had to split the equity unfortunately the double digit price appreciations hadn't started in So Cal yet. Bad timing and circumstance for me.