patrick.net

"Uh, was there ever really an economy on Long Island? Other than Roosevelt Field Mall, real estate, potato farming, and fighting Shoreham?

No, there never was, but shhhhhhhhhhhh! Don’t ruin it for them, they think it has a really strong economy! "

I spent my HS years in Shoreham, just at the peak of the fighting Shoreham thing. There are no potato farms left out there. It morphed into sod farming after the potato crops failed, and now on the north fork it is nurseries and vineyards. Everywhere else it seems that the sod farms turned into McMansion developments.

I go back every now and again because my folks are still there and I tell you, there is truth to the "you can never go home" statement. As long as you live within a few blocks of the beach and don't have to go anywhere, you have about 7 weeks in the summer when it's wonderful. For the rest, you can have it. I hate it now and am glad I left.

Peter P.

LI has INSANE property tax. There are also an awful lot of human beings there and there is only one way off of that place and that is through NYC. It's a trap and once there, they will have their way with you.

David J,

Good post. Some people here have suggested the "inflating our way out of the bubble" possibility, with rising rents (and possibly wages) coming in line with current housing prices. The problem with that route is just what you mentioned. Who the hell will pay those inflated rents? Salaries just won't support that right now. Salaries don't support housing prices, but that's because funny money fills in the difference. There is a LONG way to go before the rent vs. buy equation makes financial sense on the buy side. Of course, that's looking at it from a purely financial standpoint.

No, they get to keep the house along with the children. The guy has to help pay the mortgage through child support.

Another reason to be a stay-at-home dad. Then perhaps you will be paid child support. :)

I think divorce should be made more difficult, as it has too much negative externalities. It should require nothing less than a compelling case and court approval.

Allah,

The western suburbs of Richmond VA. I know I know...Richmond has arguably one of the worst reputations on planet earth, but you know what, for where I am in life (mid 40's, married, kid in middle school), it's really pretty good. Good schools, safe where we are, good sense of community, friendly neighbors. We've been here for 12 years (moved here from Boston), and the move was a good one. When my kid goes to college, we'll probably leave, but until then, as I said it's pretty good.

It can get kinda hot in the summer though.

In active job search now. Primarily western US. Actually when I drove out last January I went I-40 across I wanted to go thru north western NC\Asheville beautiful drive. I live between Sumter and Mrytle Beach basically alot of foresed swamps.

Actually, they should make marriage more difficult. Couple should be required to live with each other for a year or two before being allowed to marry!

If you make divorce difficult, people will not take marriage so lightly.

A vow is a contract.

@allah,

Is the divorce rate really particularly high in LI? I've never heard that statistic. I've heard about the high breast cancer rate there, though.

I had lived in GA, and NC when I was married. My ex was a full bird USA we moved a few times. The last time I'd lived in the southeast was 85 so I thought I could hang. Well this time was different I didn't feel like I could stay for years. And let me tell you guys I could buy a house outright here for 150K at least 1600 sq ft. It' not the cost of living it's the area and lack of amenities.

Not true. People are always optimistic. They get married never thinking that it will fail. They buy houses never thinking it will lose value “not in my town”.

After they see their friends getting stuck with no way out they will be much less optimistic.

@David J,

Please read my post from October 19th, 2006 at 2:14 pm from the previous thread: http://patrick.net/wp/?p=336#comments

i think it has a lot to do with money or lack of it.

It is more about faith. Not only in God but also in humanity itself.

Crashlander said: "1950 is awsome if you are a straight white republican male christian family man veteran hunter beer drinker who eats meat at every meal.
otherwise its boring."

LOL this is very very true of the South. You have to have an adventurous spirit and really look pretty hard to amuse yourself if you do not fit that mold. However, rest assured, it can be done. There are like minded people, but you will not meet them at the mall, that's for sure.

Yeah.. I picked up on that hostilty from some folks. The company that brought me out here have some churchy types. They think I'm weird because I don't go to church. In fact I feel I'm judged because of it it's like they don't accept difference. You can't even buy booze on sunday and the stores don't open til 1:30 in the afternoon sundays. It's very apparent that the religous right rule this state.

They think I’m weird because I don’t go to church.

Some of my friends think that I am weird because I eat veal.

It's like Sushi? What's that? the ethnic diverse cuisine we have in CA we take for granted. I think we've been exposed to more so we forget others have a more limite life experience. But at the same time what you see here is very unsophisticated.

I see you don’t know too much about LI.

No, I don't. Nearly all of our friends in the Bay Area are divorced though. I guess they have too much faith on humanity, thinking that someone "better" is always out there.

Makes me understand finally once and for all that living in california is about opportunity cost not just merely cost of living. We have more diversity and infusion of different cultures. We are more metropolitan and global. There are parts of the south that are still like the Johnson era 60's.

I wonder how it would be if not for cable or the internet?

We have more diversity and infusion of different cultures.

True. Better food too!

If I have my way and can convince my BF I'll be back in 07.

@Sylvie,
But I've heard good things about the relatively cosmopolitan nature of the research triangle (Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill), Charlotte, Asheville, and yes allah, Atlanta. Also, at least architecturally, Savannah, Charleston and maybe a few other places seem beautiful. I just wonder if many of "us" Californians are too Cali-centric.

LILL was right right when she told me there s no place like home...

What factors influence rents like rent control, cost basis / mortgage of the landlord, taxes, maint. etc.. Why didn’t all property owners try to cash out like so many condo conversions?

I live in the north midlands primarily forested swamp area. The coast is as expensive as San Fran especially Hilton Head\Charleston. Alot of mexiacan illegals are infiltrating Georgia in fact there is alot of tension ith the local balck population to this newest invasion. Seems that we're exporting our cheap slave labor forces to the south. I've seen alot since I moved here.

Thanks HARM. It looks like I'm a day late and a dollar short. Had I seen that I would'nt have bothered posting!

You see the illegals building homes here and in all the service industries. The wealthy business owners love cheap labor. If they build a fence it's going to stretch all the way to Florida. More coming each month because it's even cheaper here to live.

They are competing with the lower income service industry jobs and they'll work cheaper. It's causing racial tension with african americans down here.

I do really see a time coming soon when we'll see prices revert to 2000. Wages have notdoubled and tripled in five years. The imbalance can't last besides the current GOP s toast and so is the pandering to wealth. Middle class people would eventually revolt.

Goober:

You are so right and I'll never buy into that even if I do move back. I won't pay over 200K period or I'll never own. You can't convince me that the same homes I use to drive past on my way to work on the same land magically turned to gold in five years! If everyone in california said no f'ing way prices would not have gotten where they are now. In fact the frst person who agreed to the inflated price started it all. These stupid sellers would not have the expection they do if not for conditioning. We will pay what we will pay and not a penny more!

I worked all my life I'm older than you and raised two kids. I had to start all or at 42 yeah it sucks... But I have a fico in the mid 700's, low debt, and cash reserve. I had a realtor tell me in 2001 that 50k wasn't enough of a down payment. Yeah I guess if the average house is 500k! who has 100-150k in cash for a 15-20% down. How outrageous!

I guess I'm just one of those stupid chicks who won't turn goldigger just to get a house. My thinking is if I don't buy it myself it isn't mine. Lesson learned from asset division of property(divorce). You can lose it only if you default not the same as shared asset.

I hope we see some major revision in lending standards and practices next year. Throw in a recession and maybe this thing will turnout right for us who've lived responcibly. It seems everything is ass backwards those who are frivilous and spend beyond thier means are rewarded.

I haven't owned a home since 2000

I bought in Aug 1996(2740sq.ft) for 238K. In Aug 2001 I had to split the equity unfortunately the double digit price appreciations hadn't started in So Cal yet. Bad timing and circumstance for me.

Crash:
I was never one of thoseI was a divorce casualty who got priced out of the current CA market. I thought my odds would be better in the south. Turns out I don't like my particular area. I may have to adjust my thinking and expectations. If california stays like it is I'll never own a home even if I return. I'll just invest my nestegg towards early retirement.

Allah,

Richmond has been great for my daughter. The cost of living is relatively low (but thanks to the bubble getting progressively worse) which enables all sorts of things for her that would otherwise be unaffordable, and I am not stressed financially to provide it. It is a freedom I am unwilling to sacrifice at this time. (Go to realtor.com and see what your money gets you in zip 23238). The public schools in my zip are very very good.

I believe that if you open your eyes and your mind wide enough you can find that which you seek no matter who or where you are.

I will leave because the reason I live here (my daughter) will have left and I will be free again to explore the world. I don't know where I'll go, but I like doing outdoor stuff, so someplace with a long outdoor season would be nice. I have a reasonably portable job, so maybe I'll just free myself of the shackles of homeownership and do 3-7 year stints in different places until I find my sweet-spot? Who knows. I think every 5-7 years you are the same person but with different and evolved wants and needs. I'll figure it out.

I really like the central coast and SF bay and mountain areas of CA, but I've never lived there, only visited, and there's a big difference between trying to make a living somewhere and just visiting for a few weeks with no job to go to, freedom to come and go as you please, and pockets full of spending money.

Nurses and Doctors are in that field to make money period.

we all have to choose to work at something for a living (with the exception of paris hilton and other such heirs). my observations on patellar reflexes were just concerning mystification, altho i have many concerns with omissions in the way public health is delivered -- and this in a country where treatment is essentially free without insurance, btw. the most time-critical and difficult medical jobs like heart surgery are the best paid also. good points in some ways on how all jobs should be valued tho, including garbage collectors etc.

Noone really suffers if the Internet disappears. But if doctors go on strike…

altho did you hear about that hospital where the doctors went on strike for a while and the death rate went down... (altho no-one got operated on or fixed up either)

re townplanning stakeholding/shareholding, it raises the question of the merits of political and legal equality and equal rights to participation and representation, does it not? this time i agree with sfguy, and not with randy, unlike last time when i agreed with randy and not robert coté, except for the times i agreed with robert coté... wasn't the athenian city state model of democracy one man, one vote (not counting women and slaves, of course). the unanticipated and dysfunctional consequences of proportional rights would become apparent very quickly if such a system were to be introduced, you mark my words.

This is madness. Landowners should be able to do anything to their land unless public health and safety would be materially impacted.

If neighbors do not like what is happening next door, they can buy the land and keep it vacant. If they cannot afford that, TOUGH.

yes, it is madness. i am trying to demolish my bungalow so i can erect a 40 storey glass tower on my land and make a killing. council zoning is so inconvenient and NIMBY. something about overshadowing the other bungalows.

the other thing i intend to do if that fails is excavate the backyard to maybe 200 ft and look for gold or some other precious commodity. i'll probably have to operate the rig 24 hours a day for cost saving, it costs to turn that stuff off. hope the neighbours don't mind the noise thru the night. if i don't find anything, i'll have a convenient hole to turn into a 6 storey underground carpark and a backdoor to introduce the tower idea again...

LILL:
Hi sweety bless you! I caught your reply on the last thread today. I miss my adult daughter Alicia. She came to Columbia on business in August and I cried like a baby when she left. I hadn't seen her since Dec 2005. I have over 50k and that is without having sold a property inthe last three years. I live very spartan and hope as you do that we'll presevere.

Sylvie Says:

> I worked all my life I’m older than you and raised
> two kids. I had to start all or at 42 yeah it sucks…
> who has 100-150k in cash for a 15-20% down.

People over 40 who never got married or had kids...

David J,

Lord no! By all means that is a drum we can't bang on enough!

Look, even as a "financial professional" even I only have so many "tunes". Like most of us, I make every effort to keep current but in spite of say the obvious misery of a POW Camp, every prisoner has something that bugged him/her the most! Yeah, we're all starved, beaten and abused but years later the accounts of torment are actually quite different.

"Every man has his breaking point". "You and I have ours". "Walter Kurtz has reached his.... and he has very obviously gone insane".

David J, I want you to beat that thang like a rented mule!