patrick.net

Next: the walking tax and the sitting/lying tax.

The only good tax is the land-value tax.

Income tax discourages productive work. Sales tax discourages productive commerce.

No one created land. Taxing it does not discourage "land production" because there isn't any.

Land is impossible to hide, so the tax is impossible to evade. Renters will pay the tax via their rent, when their landlord pays the tax.

It's fair as well. Those who live on or otherwise use the most valuable land will pay the most tax.

BIkers want improvements but just don't want to pay for them. I thought bikers were democrats.

rando says

Those who live on or otherwise use the most valuable land will pay the most tax.

Then the Government would owe the most in taxes.

zzyzzx says

Orgeon to start taxing bicycles!

What exactly is your problem with this? From your referenced article...

zzyzzx says

the funding has been earmarked for improvements that will benefit cyclists

So the options are
1. Don't make improvements that benefit cyclists.
2. Make improvements that benefit cyclists and socialize the costs over the entire population including the vast majority of people who don't cycle.
3. Make improvements that benefit cyclists and socialize the costs over only cyclists. I.e., tax the people receiving the benefits rather than people who aren't.

I would think that you'd prefer (3) over (2). And (1) is just saying fuck infrastructure. Let's all live in a slum.

Sounds like taxing cyclists for infrastructure benefiting specifically cyclists is far more fair and fiscally responsible. Would you prefer the government use general tax dollars instead?

rando says

The only good tax is the land-value tax.

You mean public resource value tax. Such taxes should include fishing the ocean and lakes, using the extremely scarce geostationary orbits, taking up the EM spectrum, etc.

If a bicycle tax is levied to pay for bicycle lanes, that is effectively a tax on the land use to pay for both the building of the lanes and the use of the land.

Personally, I'd rather the people using the resources and infrastructure pay for them than everyone paying for them, especially when the vast majority don't use the resources. It promotes more efficient allocation of resources.

zzyzzx says

The bike tax is aimed at raising $1.2 million per year in order to improve and expand paths and trails for bicyclists and pedestrians.

Well, then it's not earmarked for improvements for cyclists. Since you cannot practically tax pedestrians, this would be a solid case to use general tax funds rather than a bike tax. Also, the law seems to be targeting an arbitrary subset of cyclists.

zzyzzx says

a $15 excise tax on the sale of bicycles costing more than $200 with a wheel diameter of at least 26 inches

Because of those two things, I would oppose this tax. The infrastructure improvements should be made using general funds, not a tax on a narrow arbitrary subset of the persons benefiting from the improvements.

This probably was the last untaxed thing there...

What SHOULD happen is that we get Bike Police whose job it is is to ticket reckless bike drivers.

Remember, ALL (inc. bikes) vehicles have to stop at stop signs, red lights, etc. It's not optional.

What happend to 'tax the rich'?

No news is good news says

What happend to 'tax the rich'?

There are $10K bicycles out there.

That's a thing about socialism, very soon "everyone" is taxed. Liberals love taxes, they constantly add taxes to everything "to help the little guy".

FYI, Oregon has no sales taxes. CA is a shame these days, liberals overdone themselves on taxes and bonds, sales tax, income tax, add value tax, punitive taxes all over the place, business taxes, property taxes, and it's never enough.

Take notice liberals, you are already paying all of those taxes in one way or another, you probably spend 4-6 month out of the year to pay taxes. Slavery indeed!

Maybe they should start taxing green and purple hair and secretary glasses. They would realize much greater revenue.

FortWayne says

That's a thing about socialism, very soon "everyone" is taxed.

Taxes are inherently socialistic. Taxes are socializing the cost of public infrastructure and government services like the military and the police. You simply cannot have any society without them. If you want to be free of taxes, move to Slab City. It's anarchy at it's finest.

www.youtube.com/embed/0vVCSUafFVI

FortWayne says

Liberals love taxes, they constantly add taxes to everything "to help the little guy".

I'm a liberal, and I don't love taxes. None of my liberal friends do, either. You clearly have not spent any times with liberals.

However, unlike you, I realize that taxes are a necessary evil for society to work. No society can work unless most people contribute something to that society. Ideally all would, but a society can tolerate a few disabled persons or a few parasites. But no society can function without contributions by the population to maintaining that society. Either you contribute your time through unpaid labor, or you contribute your time through taxes on paid labor. The later is far more efficient in a developed economy.

Furthermore, as a liberal, under my leadership you would be taxed far less. How can I do this? Easily. Cut wasteful military spending. Get those defense contractor welfare queens off the government teat.

The federal government takes in $1.9836 trillion in federal income tax. It spends $834.2 million on defense, of which 90% is pure waste. By cutting defense alone, I could reduce the total federal income tax to $1149.4 million. Distributing this decrease by bracket, I would reduce everyone's tax burden by 42%

Fuck, a 42% cut in your federal income tax immediately simply by reigning in wasteful military spending that does nothing to keep us safer. And if the savings were distributed equally, unless you are in the top 10%, $127,695/yr or more income, your federal income taxes would go to zero.

Put a liberal like me in office and on day one I'll make the first $127,695 of your income tax free. That's better than any conservative would ever do.

The reason your taxes are so high is that they are wasted on defense contractors and needless empire building. And you can blame the right for this. It's not the family on food stamps that is costing you 25% to 35% of your income. It's the war profiteers. This is the truth that FortWayne will never be honest enough to admit.

Dan8267 says

FortWayne says

Liberals love taxes, they constantly add taxes to everything "to help the little guy".

I'm a liberal, and I don't love taxes. None of my liberal friends do, either. You clearly have not spent any times with liberals.

See that's naive on your part, because that's not how the world works. Politicians every year, liberal kind, make promises at the expense of others and increase taxes on everyone to fulfill personal career dreams. At the end it's the next generation that is born into huge debt to start with. You liberals are ruining this nation.

FortWayne says

Politicians every year, liberal kind, make promises at the expense of others and increase taxes on everyone to fulfill personal career dreams.

You clearly don't even know what the term liberal is. Liberalism isn't socialism. It's not even an economic policy.

Liberalism is the political philosophy that
1. All people are equal under law. We are a nation of rights, not privileges, and everyone has the same right.
2. People should be allowed to do what they want as long as they aren't infringing upon the rights of others. There should be no victimless crimes.
3. Government should be transparent and accountable for its actions.

None of these things have to do with spending. A liberal could be a stimulus spending Keynesian or a penny pinching Austrian or anything else. Liberalism has nothing to do with economic policy.

Furthermore, the vast majority of democrats are not liberals.

You are obsessed with labeling everyone, but have no idea what those labels mean.

Finally, warfare spending is by far the greatest discretionary expense. Eliminate the wasteful 90% of warfare spending and we can all have massive tax cuts and complete funding for anti-poverty programs, which by the way are a net saving of tax dollars by greatly reducing crime and the need for police and prisons.

FortWayne says

At the end it's the next generation that is born into huge debt to start with.

Your hero Reagan was the one who created the era of massive deficit spending and ballooned the national debt. Dick Cheney said, "Reagan proved deficits don’t matter". That's your team. Team Reaganomics.

Don't go blaming us liberals for the massive deficit spending that republicans do. At least democrats tax and spend instead of spending and going into debt, which is far worse. Paying for shit on credit makes it far more expensive. Republicans are always charging the credit card and making us pay interest in the form of actual interest and currency debasement, both of which impoverish our country.

Again, unless you are willing to slash the military budget by at least 90%, you are the cause of our massive national debt.

FortWayne says

You liberals are ruining this nation.

Yeah, that whole equality under law and the rights of individuals are ruining this country. We should go back to slavery, the good old days, like FortWayne wants. Liberty is bad. That's why China, the Soviet Union, North Korea, and Nazi Germany are the best states in history.

Don't you love conservative values?

FortWayne says

FYI, Oregon has no sales taxes.

I'm shocked. This loophole needs to be fixed now, now, now!

Dan8267 says

1. All people are equal under law. We are a nation of rights, not privileges, and everyone has the same right.

2. People should be allowed to do what they want as long as they aren't infringing upon the rights of others. There should be no victimless crimes.

3. Government should be transparent and accountable for its actions.

Somehow you liberals never seem to follow through on those ideals when elected. So maybe in your mind it means that, but in practice it means only.

1) big government tells people what to think and what speech is appropriate, otherwise you are a racist..
2) people must have equal outcomes regardless of skill and effort. Especially across skin color and gender lines.
3) government will do whatever it wants, and you "masses" suck it up and do as you are told, pay more taxes.

That's liberals today. (aka Democratic party)

Dan8267 says

You mean public resource value tax. Such taxes should include fishing the ocean and lakes, using the extremely scarce geostationary orbits, taking up the EM spectrum, etc.

All those are already taxed. Fishing requires a license which is nothing more than a tax on fishing. Orbit taxes are paid in form of license fees. EM spectrum rights are sold by the FCC for billions of dollars in ... tax!

So yah, the tax collectors have been there and taxed that.

This bike tax sounds reasonable to me. No sales tax so what the hell? Don't like it? Buy a used bike off Craigslist! That's what I always do.

Dan8267 says

Yeah, that whole equality under law and the rights of individuals are ruining this country. We should go back to slavery, the good old days, like FortWayne wants. Liberty is bad. That's why China, the Soviet Union, North Korea, and Nazi Germany are the best states in history.

Considering how Reagan fought against evils of communism, while liberals and Democrats were falling over themselves in appeasement that should clear out on what side of that sarcasm your Democratic party team is actually on.

FortWayne says

Somehow you liberals never seem to follow through on those ideals when elected.

Then, by definition, the person elected isn't a liberal. Liberalism isn't a self-identifying term. You either meet the definition or your an imposter.

Can I, an atheist who thoroughly disbelieves in the divinity of Christ, accurate claim to be a Christian? Can you accurate claim to be an atheist who believes in god? Can a man who chop off his dick accurately claim to be a woman? I though you believed that self-identification was bullshit.

FortWayne says

1) big government tells people what to think and what speech is appropriate, otherwise you are a racist..

That's a conservative position, one that both the left and the right are guilty of. It has never been a liberal position.

The left says you can't fly the Confederate battle flag. The right says you can't burn the American flag. A liberal says you have the right to do both.

Stop blaming liberals for the failings of conservatives. Everything you bitch about is a conservative action. You just don't like conservatives with cultures other than your own, but they are still conservatives because they are trying to CONSERVE their culture, and conserving cultural preferences and dominance is the DEFINING CHARACTERISTIC of conservativism and the entire reason it's calls "conserve-atism". It's a freaking self-defining word. I don't see why English is so difficult for you. Isn't it your native language?

FortWayne says

2) people must have equal outcomes regardless of skill and effort. Especially across skin color and gender lines.

Again, that's a conservative philosophy, not a liberal one. We liberals believe in equal opportunity.

The conservative left is playing race games and promoting racial preference just like the conservative right always have. Different cultures, but some goals: racial domination and special treatment.

Liberal philosophy is the exact opposite: equality under law. As a liberal I'm firmly against Affirmative Action because it is racist and a violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. I'm also against the war on drugs for the exact same reason. Are you against the war on drugs? Unless the answer is a resounding yes, you are playing the same bullshit race games as the conservative right.

The left and the right deserve each other. They are both scumbag conservatives.

FortWayne says

3) government will do whatever it wants, and you "masses" suck it up and do as you are told, pay more taxes.

Big government has ALWAYS been a conservative position. The left wants government for force this culture onto the population. The right wants the government to force that culture onto the population. Same difference.

Liberals have always states, as I have, that government should be completely culturally agnostic and that the power of the state should never be used to force cultural preferences onto anyone. You, like all conservatives, have argued the exact opposite. You outright stated that the government should force culture onto people. Don't make me look up the quote.

Liberals believe that government should have the least amount of power necessary to protect rights and that the sole purpose of government is the protection of rights. Now rights include property rights, and property rights include public property rights, and public property includes the environment. We all breathe air from the atmosphere, so poisoning it is a violation of our rights.

In contrast, you want a nanny state that tells people how to dress. Want to deny that? Do you think it should be legal for people to walk around public nude? Unless the answer is a resounding yes, you believe in letting government do what it wants and force people to suck it up.

Comparing the two of us, I clearly believe in the government having far less power and far less discretion than you do. I am against and you are for...
- The government being able to create laws that have nothing to do with protecting rights like outlawing drugs, nudity, and prostitution.
- The government being able to spy on its citizens and violate wiretapping laws.
- The police being allowed to break into people's homes with no-knock warrants.
- The police being allowed to search a person's property without warrant because the cop says he has "reasonable suspicion".
- The prosecution of whistle blowers like Edward Snowden who reveal government crimes and unethical behavior. Well, unless it's the Democrat's unethical behavior, in which case you have no problem with Trump's people working with the Russian government on breaking into computers because it's the Democrats being attacked.
- The banning of political speech like flag burning or waving flags like the ISIS flag. The latter is no different than waving the terrorist Confederate battle flag adopted by the KKK. It's says your a scumbag, but you have the right to say this.

The bottom line is that I'm a rebel, as all true Americans are, whereas you are a sheep following the state blindly.

FortWayne says

Considering how Reagan fought against evils of communism, while liberals and Democrats were falling over themselves in appeasement that should clear out on what side of that sarcasm your Democratic party team is actually on.

Your full of shit. Reagan did nothing to stop communism, the political system, which is still alive and well in both Russia and China. The economic system in Russia had a partial collapse just like capitalism has had in America several times including in 2007. And that shouldn't be surprising since capitalism and communism are essentially the same damn system, giving control over production and distribution to a few individuals. Whether you call those individuals executives or party leaders is irrelevant. The government is just another hierarchy, not much different from a corporation that has dominated a market.

Capitalism, communism, and feudalism are like vanilla, french vanilla, and creamy vanilla. Sure, they may be subtly different, but they are all the same flavor and nothing like chocolate, strawberry, and banana. If the only ice cream parlor you ever visited has only these versions of vanilla, then your opinion on what flavor is best is irrelevant. You haven't tasted the range of flavors. The economic systems I propose are farther from any of those three systems than they are from each other.

FortWayne says

while liberals and Democrats were falling over themselves in appeasement that should clear out on what side of that sarcasm your Democratic party team is actually on.

The only reason liberals vote democrat is because republican is far more evil. Give us another choice and we'll gladly abandon democratics.

Quigley says

All those are already taxed. Fishing requires a license which is nothing more than a tax on fishing. Orbit taxes are paid in form of license fees. EM spectrum rights are sold by the FCC for billions of dollars in ... tax!

So yah, the tax collectors have been there and taxed that.

I never said they weren't taxed already. However, most of those things are undertaxed which is why we have to tax income, which should not be taxed. Tax consumption of public resources, not wealth production. This aligns the interests of the individuals with the interest of society.

Quigley says

This bike tax sounds reasonable to me. No sales tax so what the hell? Don't like it? Buy a used bike off Craigslist! That's what I always do.

Sales taxes are regressive and thus bad. They also discourage commerce, which is also bad.

FortWayne says

FYI, Oregon has no sales taxes. CA is a shame these days, liberals overdone themselves on taxes and bonds, sales tax, income tax, add value tax, punitive taxes all over the place, business taxes, property taxes, and it's never enough.

California's problem is ludicrous sales and income taxes, while people can actually own freakin' water. Why have failed Spanish Imperial laws?

Dan8267 says

Reagan did nothing to stop communism

hahahahaha! man you really do live in alternative reality with alternative facts.

Dan8267 says

FortWayne says

1) big government tells people what to think and what speech is appropriate, otherwise you are a racist..

That's a conservative position, one that both the left and the right are guilty of. It has never been a liberal position.

There is nothing conservative about this. This is very left wing Democratic party thing. Left still cry's every day on tv about how "mean" Trump is. And it was a real shit storm of "offended people" before the election.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

California's problem is ludicrous sales and income taxes

That may be one of California's numerous problems, being the hellhole of a state it is, but that is certainly not the reason why housing so is damn expensive in Silicon Valley.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Reagan did nothing to stop communism

hahahahaha! man you really do live in alternative reality with alternative facts.

Again, can you back that statement up with evidence?

Here's some indisputable evidence that Reagan failed. China, Russia, North Korea, and Cuba are all still ran by the same communist that ran them in 1980. How the fuck have they been stopped?

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

FortWayne says

1) big government tells people what to think and what speech is appropriate, otherwise you are a racist..

That's a conservative position, one that both the left and the right are guilty of. It has never been a liberal position.

There is nothing conservative about this.

Bullshit. Who makes anti-decency laws regulating language, clothing, and sex? Conservatives.

Who tries to pass laws making flag burning illegal? Conservatives.

Who tries to indoctrinate kids into thinking America is always the good guy and is the greatest country in the world? Conservatives.

Who forces children to say the pledge of allegiance? Conservatives.

Who prosecutes people for exercising free speech that offends Christians? Conservatives.

Who started the war on drugs to demonize blacks and hippies? Conservatives. More specifically, Nixon and his cabinet.

Who arrest George Carlin for exercising free speech? Conservatives.

FortWayne says

There is nothing conservative about this. This is very left wing Democratic party thing.

Contradicting statements. The left is conservative just like the right and Islamists.

Y'all voted these tax payers into office now pay up is what you must do. You cheered when others are paying the tax, so be happy, now others are cheering for YOU!