patrick.net

Goran_K says

Single payer.

Single payer would be an easier step from where we are than a free market. This is the unfortunate reality, and why critics have blamed Obamacare authors of strategizing towards single payer.

I recently started a new career as a health insurance broker. ALL the financially well off and healthy clients are finding ACA alternatives. The ACA is left with the dregs of society, pushing the costs higher.

I thought the financial system was ripe for corruption. That is NOTHING compared to healthcare. Everywhere you look its one absurd motive after another. Ever wonder why a medicaid recipient gets sent to 25 different specialists when diagnosed w cancer? Its because every bill is covered by uncle sam and the specialists all scratch each others' back by referring the patient to their services. The entire system is broken

CBOEtrader says

The entire system is broken

That's been the case before Obamacare. All that Obamacare did is enrich the system even more.

CBOEtrader says

Ever wonder why a medicaid recipient gets sent to 25 different specialists when diagnosed w cancer? Its because every bill is covered by uncle sam and the specialists all scratch each others' back by referring the patient to their services. The entire system is broken

And that is why single payer will NEVER work. The Medicare system is the same way. Senior citizens get sent to multiple specialists for tests and consultations, just because the gov't will pay for it.

Hell, my 87 year old father in law is going in for cataract surgery on an eye that has nerve damage and that he hasn't been able to see great out of for over 30 years. He's also like 1-1/2 feet into the grave. Why are they doing the surgery you ask? Because Medicare pays for it.

anon_d394f says

And that is why single payer will NEVER work. The Medicare system is the same way. Senior citizens get sent to multiple specialists for tests and consultations, just because the gov't will pay for it.

Funny how single payer works in every other first world country. For half the cost.

bob2356 says

anon_d394f says

And that is why single payer will NEVER work. The Medicare system is the same way. Senior citizens get sent to multiple specialists for tests and consultations, just because the gov't will pay for it.

Funny how single payer works in every other first world country. For half the cost.

Except for the 22 week waiting times for specialist.

CBOEtrader says

I recently started a new career as a health insurance broker. ALL the financially well off and healthy clients are finding ACA alternatives. The ACA is left with the dregs of society, pushing the costs higher.

What is a health insurance broker? I thought they helped companies select plans. Why and how would you be seeing individual patient records to know they saw 25 different specialists? Especially for medicaid patients records. Something does't add up here.

Goran_K says

Except for the 22 week waiting times for specialist.

That's what you keep saying but never show where you get this figure.

anon_13ce6 says

Goran_K says

Except for the 22 week waiting times for specialist.

That's what you keep saying but never show where you get this figure.

If one person in Venezuela waited twenty weeks, then obviously this applies everywhere always, if you’re a halfwit

Several things will help tremendously:
Up front pricing.
HSA's with unlimited or much higher contribution amounts.
Ban on medical lawsuits.
Caps on emergency services pricing.
No medical treatment for illegals.
No requirement for treatment of the uninsured.

Goran_K says

Except for the 22 week waiting times for specialist.

You could tell us where or you could run and hide. Again.

errc says

anon_13ce6 says

Goran_K says

Except for the 22 week waiting times for specialist.

That's what you keep saying but never show where you get this figure.

If one person in Venezuela waited twenty weeks, then obviously this applies everywhere always, if you’re a halfwit

This is a significant issue in Canada and Europe. Last I checked he US was #1 in the world in healthcare accessibility, FYI.

bob2356 says

What is a health insurance broker?

bob2356 says

Something does't add up here.

Often confused by simple concepts? Dementia is a real problem amongst today's elderly.

I think government should not force people to buy anything. That distorts the market with higher demand, driving prices up.

Real stupid by Democrats to pass it.

anotheraccount says

CBOEtrader says

The entire system is broken

That's been the case before Obamacare. All that Obamacare did is enrich the system even more.

I can put an elderly couple in blue cross for an out of pocket cost of $1500, wherein they pay nothing with the entire cost directly subsidized by taxpayers. My commission on that sale will be about $45/month for all of 2018.

To summarize, a lot of people are making money on this massive transfer of wealth, wherein the consumer never even pulls out his credit card. This industry is absurd

FortWayne says

I think government should not force people to buy anything. That distorts the market with higher demand, driving prices up.

Real stupid by Democrats to pass it.

So then why did The Heritage Foundation write it? You know they are the most prominent “Con servative “ organization on the planet.

Better still, why won’t Republicans repeal it and replace with something better?

errc says

FortWayne says

I think government should not force people to buy anything. That distorts the market with higher demand, driving prices up.

Real stupid by Democrats to pass it.

So then why did The Heritage Foundation write it? You know they are the most prominent “Con servative “ organization on the planet.

Better still, why won’t Republicans repeal it and replace with something better?

Did you not see the Trump executive order? Change is coming... whatever the fuck that means has yet to be seen

bob2356 says

anon_d394f says

And that is why single payer will NEVER work. The Medicare system is the same way. Senior citizens get sent to multiple specialists for tests and consultations, just because the gov't will pay for it.

Funny how single payer works in every other first world country. For half the cost.

You just proved why. The COST.

Unless cost controls are put in place (Obamacare NEVER controlled cost of procedures and care), single payer will bankrupt the country.

CBOEtrader says

Our healthcare has degraded into the worst of all possible situations.

So you're saying that single payer with a public option would have been better? So fully nationalizing health insurance would also have been better?

You should have voted Bernie.

Fully nationalized health care = rationing and subsidizing others. There's no way around this ingrained aspect of socialized health.

bob2356 says

You could tell us where or you could run and hide. Again.

No need to run or hide.

Average wait times reported in 2016 in a survey done by the Fraser Institute.

New Brunswick: 38.8 weeks
Nova Scotia: 34. 8
P.E.I: 31.4
Newfoundland and Labrador: 26
British Columbia: 25.2
Alberta: 22.9
Manitoba: 20.6
Quebec: 18.9
Saskatchewan: 16.6
Ontario: 15.6

Here's the link to the data from their survey.
Link

The free market would keep premiums at $100/month for a family of 14 & pregnant.
Free marketers know this.
What's less than nothing? Any Republican idea.

anon_b9053 says

You should have voted Bernie.

Bernie Sanders,DEMOCRATIC Presidential candidate.
Independent! my big old butt!

Goran_K says

rationing and subsidizing others.

That sounds like all insurance.
We be such socialists.
Coverage depends on the amount of premium one is willing to pay?

HEY YOU says

That sounds like all insurance.

It's quite different for the reasons I explained above, especially the privatized aspect which acts as an inherent cost control.

Yes, all health care has SOME rationing as a natural result of "there aren't infinite doctors". It's just that capitalism solves the S/D graph far more efficiently than socialism.

Booger says

Several things will help tremendously:
Up front pricing.
HSA's with unlimited or much higher contribution amounts.
Ban on medical lawsuits.
Caps on emergency services pricing.
No medical treatment for illegals.
No requirement for treatment of the uninsured.

Good list. This is exactly what a productive discussion on patnet should look like. Upfront pricing would rip the mask off this racket.

I like the no automatic treatment for illegals. This cost is eaten up by the counties in many states which in turn hurts actual taxpayers.

Goran_K says

It's just that capitalism solves the S/D graph far more efficiently than socialism.

Eliminate ACA & lets see what capitalism/insurance premiums does to a families budget "graph".
It might rhyme with "No one in the middle class will have a tax increase."

HEY YOU says

Eliminate ACA & lets see what capitalism/insurance premiums does to a families budget "graph".
It might rhyme with "No one in the middle class will have a tax increase."

ACA is already done and collapsing, so we'll see what happens soon.

CBOEtrader says

.. whatever the fuck that means has yet to be seen

Kicked my funnybone's butt!
Cracked me up! rofl

Goran_K says

HEY YOU says

That sounds like all insurance.

It's quite different for the reasons I explained above, especially the privatized aspect which acts as an inherent cost control.

Yes, all health care has SOME rationing as a natural result of "there aren't infinite doctors". It's just that capitalism solves the S/D graph far more efficiently than socialism.

Why not advocate for a Capitalist solution then?

mell says

Booger says

Several things will help tremendously:
Up front pricing.
HSA's with unlimited or much higher contribution amounts.
Ban on medical lawsuits.
Caps on emergency services pricing.
No medical treatment for illegals.
No requirement for treatment of the uninsured.

Good list. This is exactly what a productive discussion on patnet should look like. Upfront pricing would rip the mask off this racket.

You believe a Ban on medical lawsuits is part of a good list?

What happens if you are harmed by someone else actions a/o negligence?

errc says

mell says

Booger says

Several things will help tremendously:
Up front pricing.
HSA's with unlimited or much higher contribution amounts.
Ban on medical lawsuits.
Caps on emergency services pricing.
No medical treatment for illegals.
No requirement for treatment of the uninsured.

Good list. This is exactly what a productive discussion on patnet should look like. Upfront pricing would rip the mask off this racket.

You believe a Ban on medical lawsuits is part of a good list?

What happens if you are harmed by someone else actions a/o negligence?

A cap may be a good compromise. In other countries you may go to jail if negligence is proven, and/or lose your license. There is no perfect system, a cap on damages paired with possible license revocation and/or jail time may work. The current system allows anybody to mount a lawsuit for whatever money they want which mostly benefits the lawyers and clogs the system, not the victim. There's no doubt that the current system is being abused.

Goran_K says

No need to run or hide.

Average wait times reported in 2016 in a survey done by the Fraser Institute.

New Brunswick: 38.8 weeks
Nova Scotia: 34. 8
P.E.I: 31.4
Newfoundland and Labrador: 26
British Columbia: 25.2
Alberta: 22.9
Manitoba: 20.6
Quebec: 18.9
Saskatchewan: 16.6
Ontario: 15.6

Here's the link to the data from their survey.

I remember the Fraiser institute studies now. That would be Dr. Michael Walker who also writes for Heritage.org. He has been releasing these reports for 25 years trying to get the Canadian government to allow private health insurance. Which I'm sure would be quite lucrative to Dr. Walker. Not a very objective source.

You might want to look at Canadian Institute of Health Study which uses actual patient records and dates from actual records. Fraiser uses a survey that asks docs to estimate what they think the wait time would be and gets something like a 5% return on the survey. Not a very statistically valid way to get data.

anon_38c3f says

You just proved why. The COST.

Unless cost controls are put in place (Obamacare NEVER controlled cost of procedures and care), single payer will bankrupt the country.

You are very confused on terms. ACA isn't single payer or anything close to single payer. It's government subsidized health care insurance.

mell says

Good list. This is exactly what a productive discussion on patnet should look like. Upfront pricing would rip the mask off this racket.

Great, How does one price something up front if you don't know what is wrong yet? Goran dodged this question also.

Goran_K says

.

It's quite different for the reasons I explained above, especially the privatized aspect which acts as an inherent cost control.

Yes, all health care has SOME rationing as a natural result of "there aren't infinite doctors". It's just that capitalism solves the S/D graph far more efficiently than socialism.

So that's why health care costs twice as much in America. The inherent cost control. I knew I was missing something.

bob2356 says

mell says

Good list. This is exactly what a productive discussion on patnet should look like. Upfront pricing would rip the mask off this racket.

Great, How does one price something up front if you don't know what is wrong yet? Goran dodged this question also.

Standard visits all have fixed prices you just don't know them they are billed to the insurance, same for most diagnostics. The majority are standard procedures, probably 80% of procedures who can be priced upfront very easily, if not more. I see no issue here.

bob2356 says

So that's why health care costs twice as much in America. The inherent cost control. I knew I was missing something.

I have $300 individual MAX limits per individual in my plan. I'm perfectly fine with the cost. What you're asking me to do is subsidize the health care of some non-contributor in addition to what I pay for myself already. How is that fair?

How is ppACA worse than what we had before?

If it is worse, why won’t the Republican majority listen to their constituents, keep their promises that they screamed about for years, and Repeal and Replace it?

Maybe you were ignorant to the fact that all these same problems existed before ACA?

Maybe you didn’t know that ACA was written by, and thrusted upon us all, by The Heritage Foundation? The #1 source for Right Wing/“Independent” Government Solutions.

bob2356 says

anon_38c3f says

You just proved why. The COST.

Unless cost controls are put in place (Obamacare NEVER controlled cost of procedures and care), single payer will bankrupt the country.

You are very confused on terms. ACA isn't single payer or anything close to single payer. It's government subsidized health care insurance.

If healthcare was affordable, the government wouldn't have to subsidized the ability to pay for it.

anon_983ac says

bob2356 says

anon_38c3f says

You just proved why. The COST.

Unless cost controls are put in place (Obamacare NEVER controlled cost of procedures and care), single payer will bankrupt the country.

You are very confused on terms. ACA isn't single payer or anything close to single payer. It's government subsidized health care insurance.

If healthcare was affordable, the government wouldn't have to subsidized the ability to pay for it.

You’re conflating health insurance with healthcare. Be smarter