patrick.net

rando says

Could it just possibly be that Islam itself incites murder in its core teachings

In the Ottoman empire, Christians and Jews were treated better than other religious groups in the western empires at that time (until the Armenian genocide, but it was not motivated by religion).

rando says

The first step to solving a problem is to speak honestly about it.

The first step is to recognize what the problem is.

FP says

In the Ottoman empire, Christians and Jews were treated better than other religious groups in the western empires at that time (until the Armenian genocide, but it was not motivated by religion).

Christians and Jews were moneymakers for their Islamic rulers via the jizya tax. The Armenians in particular had good trade going with the Venetians and could freely travel back and forth.

And the Armenians were indeed killed largely because of religion, because it was feared that as Orthodox Christians, they would side with Russia and help break up the Ottoman empire even further.

My MIL is Armenian and I've read a bit about the genocide.

rando says

Christians and Jews were moneymakers for their Islamic rulers via the jizya tax.

Even if this is the only reason (proof??), they were still more tolerant than their western counterparts.

rando says

And the Armenians were indeed killed largely because of religion, because it was feared that as Orthodox Christians, they would side with Russia and help break up the Ottoman empire even further.

You know very well that this is different than religion intolerance.

You can say it was political, but :

1. nonetheless they were killed for being Christian
2. most of the murdering was done by ordinary Muslims who were very willing to go along with the murders because Islam told them it was good to kill non-Muslims

justme says

In which case, should we be the least bit surprised that inhabitants of the countries we bomb and invade hate us, Christian or not, and then proceed to go to western countries and bomb us? Both sides are doing terrible things. Adults and children are being killed and maimed everywhere. This has got to stop.

It should be a no-brainer then NOT to let them in. At the very least, not single males.

rando says

nonetheless they were killed for being Christian

for being perceived as allies of a foreign power, among other non-religious reasons

rando says

most of the murdering was done by ordinary Muslims who were very willing to go along with the murders because Islam told them it was good to kill non-Muslims

ordinary christians in India did a lot of killings of muslims during the Indian/Pakistan genocides

FP says

ordinary christians in India did a lot of killings of muslims during the Indian/Pakistan genocides

People don't forget the hundreds of years of Jihad and Oppression. The Balkans, Hungary, and Poland don't either. Germany, unlike Bulgaria, was never an Exploited Colony of an Imperialist Muslim Ottoman Empire that enslaved millions. Not because of arms, but because Magyars and Poles defeated the Turks at Vienna, while Germans were fighting amongst themselves.

In fact, parts of Europe are still under Turkish Imperialist Domination, like Thrace. It should be liberated.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

People don't forget the hundreds of years of Jihad and Oppression.

Oh, I agree with this. I don't advocate for welcoming muslims into Europe. On the contrary, I am against it.

Maybe it is good to step back and see where exactly Patrick and I disagree. I'll do it later today when I have time.

Or anyone wearing a beekeeper outfit

TwoScoopsMcGee says

justme says

In which case, should we be the least bit surprised that inhabitants of the countries we bomb and invade hate us, Christian or not, and then proceed to go to western countries and bomb us? Both sides are doing terrible things. Adults and children are being killed and maimed everywhere. This has got to stop.

It should be a no-brainer then NOT to let them in. At the very least, not single males.

PeopleUnited says

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

I hope you recognized the sarcasm.

"ordinary christians in India did a lot of killings of muslims during the Indian/Pakistan genocides".
Proof?

Gade says

Proof?

Bwahahahaha.

justme says

What is the root cause of Christian bomberism, invaderism and regime-change-ism?

When Jesus tells someone to intiate a bombing you will have a case. Until then you might as well understand that this is what Christ said about the enemies:

Matthew 5:44King James Version (KJV)

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

FP says

rando says

The first step to solving a problem is to speak honestly about it.

The first step is to recognize what the problem is.

That is what this thread is about.

Now that the real trolls are gone, any discussion on the association between Islam and violence?

PeopleUnited says

Now that the real trolls are gone, any discussion on the association between Islam and violence?

The Quran. The Quran is the most misogynist, racist, and brutal text ever produced as a rule set for a religion. It allows for the killing of infidels, the stoning of women, and the enslavement of conquered people and unlike Christianity it never had its 2.0 version, just the original and brutal 1.0 version that is the origin of all Violent Islamic ideology. The Western world and Islam are incompatible.

Goran_K says

PeopleUnited says

Now that the real trolls are gone, any discussion on the association between Islam and violence?

The Quran. The Quran is the most misogynist, racist, and brutal text ever produced as a rule set for a religion. It allows for the killing of infidels, the stoning of women, and the enslavement of conquered people and unlike Christianity it never had its 2.0 version, just the original and brutal 1.0 version that is the origin of all Violent Islamic ideology. The Western world and Islam are incompatible.

Hey Patrick....who gets to monitor Islam?
I nominate ApocalypseFuck.

Goran_K says

PeopleUnited says

Now that the real trolls are gone, any discussion on the association between Islam and violence?

The Quran. The Quran is the most misogynist, racist, and brutal text ever produced as a rule set for a religion. It allows for the killing of infidels, the stoning of women, and the enslavement of conquered people and unlike Christianity it never had its 2.0 version, just the original and brutal 1.0 version that is the origin of all Violent Islamic ideology. The Western world and Islam are incompatible.

True Christianity is to follow Christ. Look at what He did and emulate it.

True Islam is to follow Mohammed. Look at he did and emulate it.

Following Jesus means to live a life of sacrifice and service to others with a focus on healing.

What can we say about what it means to follow the example of Mohammed?

PeopleUnited says

What can we say about what it means to follow the example of Mohammed?

You follow the example of Mohammad and you end up with ISIS. Even they said they were just following Mohammad's example.

Indeed. Islam IS terrorism.

anon_6bbed says

Indeed. Islam IS terrorism.

That is what Mohammed intended.

Its instruction book literally says to kill non-adherents. What about this is difficult for people to understand?

anonymous says

What are the root causes of Islamic terrorism?

CIA money.

PeopleUnited says

anon_6bbed says

Indeed. Islam IS terrorism.

That is what Mohammed intended.

This attitude would largely fade away wo the constant inflow of CIA money into the hands of "allied" warlords and "friendly" combatants.

Goran_K says

The Quran. The Quran is the most misogynist, racist, and brutal text ever produced as a rule set for a religion. It allows for the killing of infidels, the stoning of women, and the enslavement of conquered people and unlike Christianity it never had its 2.0 version, just the original and brutal 1.0 version that is the origin of all Violent Islamic ideology. The Western world and Islam are incompatible

Worth quoting just to repost!
This is the answer in a nutshell.

anon_4480e says

This attitude would largely fade away wo the constant inflow of CIA money into the hands of "allied" warlords and "friendly" combatants.

Nice bit of Russian propaganda to claim the CIA was funding ISIS and Al Qaeda while the CIA and our military were simultaneously risking their lives trying to destroy them.

I thought Russian propaganda was finally considered a bad thing by leftists these days?

Not every Muslim is an extremist. If we want to keep radical Islamists bottled up and not raping their way across the whole Middle East, taking major cities, oil fields and attacking Western Cities, we are going to have to ally with some moderate Muslims to keep a lid on things.

socal2 says

Not every Muslim is an extremist. If we want to keep radical Islamists bottled up and not raping their way across the whole Middle East, taking major cities, oil fields and attacking Western Cities, we are going to have to ally with some moderate Muslims to keep a lid on things.

That's fine, lets just keep these allies in the Middle East. It is not safe to assume that "moderates" will remain so. The radicalization of Moslems that is happening all around the world is evidence of that. There is no shortage of this evidence. It is growing by the day. https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

PeopleUnited says

socal2 says

Not every Muslim is an extremist. If we want to keep radical Islamists bottled up and not raping their way across the whole Middle East, taking major cities, oil fields and attacking Western Cities, we are going to have to ally with some moderate Muslims to keep a lid on things.

That's fine, lets just keep these allies in the Middle East. It is not safe to assume that "moderates" will remain so.

We have a new friend, Mohammad Bin Sultan the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. So far he is going in the right direction, but no, I would not fully trust him. A Muslim who puts Islam above all else can never be fully trusted.
The time will come when the world moves in to eradicate Islam from the face of this earth. That is when we will know which Muslims are with us, and which are against us.

socal2 says

Nice bit of Russian propaganda to claim the CIA was funding ISIS and Al Qaeda while the CIA and our military were simultaneously risking their lives trying to destroy them.

We just saw today the videos where Trump retweeted Jayda Fransen's video of FSA Commander Omar Gharba al-Khojji destroying a statue of the Virgin Mary. At the time, he was part of the Obama-backed FSA (he later joined ISIS).

Christian refugees described to VOA the execution of a half dozen of their co-religionists in the northwestern village of al-Yakubiye, in Idlib province, by Sunni Muslims aligned with the Western-backed Free Syrian Army. Rahel, a 45-year-old former teacher, said, “Al Nusra didn’t come to our village; the people who came were from villages close by, and they were Free Syrian Army.”

...Nearly a third of Syria’s Christians, an estimated 600,000, have fled the country. Before the war, Christians accounted for about 10 percent of Syria’s population of 22 million.

https://www.voanews.com/a/syrian-iraqi-bishops-urge-faithful-not-to-join-refugee-flow/2977430.html

Most of the targeting of Syrian Christians has been blamed on al Qaeda affiliates Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic State of Syria and Sham (ISIS), but refugees like 45-year-old school director Rahel say the picture inside is more confused.

She says jihadists weren’t in her predominantly Christian hamlet of al-Yakubiye in Syria’s northwest province of Idlib. FSA fighters from neighboring Sunni Muslim villages were the problem.

Back in February, the news agency AFP wrote about al-Yakubiye, noting that although one of the three churches had been looted, relations between Syrian Sunni Muslims and local Christians were cordial. But in the intervening months, nearly all Christians have fled after half a dozen were executed with their heads chopped off and about 20 more were kidnapped. The evacuation of al-Yakubiye has added to a Christian exodus which is prompting fears that the civil war could spell the doom of Syrian Christianity.

“Al Nusra didn’t come to our village; the people who came were from villages close by, and they were Free Syrian Army,” Rahel says. Christians were targeted because they were seen as being pro-Assad, although she added some of the persecution was motivated also by greed, with the better-off being picked off first and their property divided by powerful local Sunni Muslim families.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/syrias-christians-flee-kidnappings-rape-executions

Here is the video (under alias Omar Raghba):
www.youtube.com/embed/yLvW48cbmeI

Also covered at MEMRI at the time.
https://www.memri.org/tv/sheik-omar-raghba-smashes-virgin-mary-statue-syrian-village-allah-alone-will-be-worshipped-levant

Omar later took his Obamacare Weapons and his men over to ISIS. But at this time, there literally was no ISIS and his group was under the "Moderate Rebels" John McCain told us Wahabi Terrorists like Omar were.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

We just saw today the videos where Trump retweeted Jayda Fransen's video of FSA Commander Omar Gharba al-Khojji destroying a statue of the Virgin Mary. At the time, he was part of the Obama-backed FSA (he later joined ISIS).

I don't doubt that some of our Muslim "allies" turned out to be complete jihadi dirt-bags. Especially under Obama - when he was forced to recklessly put a coalition together to fight ISIS after foolishly pulling every last troop out of Iraq.

My point is to dispute the retarded claim that the CIA money is the "root cause" of Islamic terrorism as Anon claimed.

socal2 says

My point is to dispute the retarded claim that the CIA money is the "root cause" of Islamic terrorism as Anon claimed.

Agreed. Islamic Terrorism has been around since before the only thing found near Langley was Chief Many Feathers' teepee.

The first Islamic terror attack was the Hudnyah when Muhammed broke a peace treaty to attack his neighbors in a dastardly, dishonest raid.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

...Nearly a third of Syria’s Christians, an estimated 600,000, have fled the country. Before the war, Christians accounted for about 10 percent of Syria’s population of 22 million.

This is what has always happened in EVERY SINGLE Islamic country to the non Muslims:
1. They are forced to convert.
2. They end up raped and murdered like the Yazidis.
3. They leave the country, and take refuge in a non Muslim country.

Take the example of Iran when they were invaded by the Muslim Arabs. They were victimized like the Yazidis, and forced to convert to Islam. Today they are barbarians that stone women to death. Some were fortunate to escape to India, a non Muslim country, where they were welcomed. After all these centuries, they peacefully and happily live in India, prosper, and practice their religion, Zorasterianism or whatever it is called. They do not stone women to death.

Take the example of Pakistan, which split from Hindu India upon Independence from the British after WW2. 25% of the population in Pakistan were Hindus. Today, they are only 3% of the population. They were treated like the Yazidis, forced to convert, and many escaped.

History repeats itself again and again in every single country where Muslims start getting close to the majority. This disgusting and barbaric religion is not peaceful, not moral, and can never be civilized. It must be eradicated at any cost.