patrick.net

NorthBrief says

He never said it wipes out that much in gross. Think about it, losing $24k gross would mean he was losing $18k NET. That's not what he's saying.

What he's losing in the 25% bracket scenario is $24k in deductions, which leads to that $6k extra tax.

How can that be? He already mentioned he's upset about losing Mortgage Interest and State and Local Tax deductions.

Thankfully an intelligent person showed up.

WookieMan says

What are you getting at? Sucks to support Trump or the tax plan? Don't care either way, just looking for clarification.

Good moderation, thanks. There was no mention of the insanity of eliminating certain deductions during the campaign. I'm not even sure Trump is looking closely at the plan. Seems like he has delegated it to his Jews. It is horrible.

To clarify, I'm actually losing about $40k in reductions.

FortWayne says

the one on tax free gains. they are lowering the amount to 600k as max.

But it's 500k for a couple now.

NewOldUser says

NorthBrief says

He never said it wipes out that much in gross. Think about it, losing $24k gross would mean he was losing $18k NET. That's not what he's saying.

What he's losing in the 25% bracket scenario is $24k in deductions, which leads to that $6k extra tax.

How can that be? He already mentioned he's upset about losing Mortgage Interest and State and Local Tax deductions.

Thankfully an intelligent person showed up.

It’s shouldnt have that large an impact.

I’ll bet you he is not considering the larger personal exemptions as well as increased brackets.

I don’t own a home and continually am just below the cutoff where it’s more beneficial to take the standard deduction rather than itemize.

Trumps plan would save me around $2800 a year. Of course we will have to see exactly what happens. Right now the ones that get screwed are the six figure and up crowd in high price housing locations who are homeowners, but we shall see what the final bill contains.

I see it as most everyone losing out. The power(money) will be further concentrated on the top while we all are saddled with more debt. How is that conservative?

NewOldUser says

I fully support Trump

And that's why you're in this predicament.

WookieMan says

What are you getting at? Sucks to support Trump or the tax plan? Don't care either way, just looking for clarification

That if you support Trump/the republicans, this is the tax plan that you should expect.

We need to up the annual deficit and total debt as much as possible, so that if and when democrats are in power again, we can use the debt as a reason to obstruct everything they want to do.

Americans never get tired of that game.

FP says

That if you support Trump/the republicans, this is the tax plan that you should expect.

Nonsense. Every CA Republican representative is fighting this plan tooth and nail.

Go back to the politics forum if you want to troll about D vs. R

Convict FP @ 4,
Why would one use "stupid" when "fucking idiot" would suffice?

anon_99eb9 says

Go back to the politics forum if you want to troll about D vs. R

Republican "politicians" are responsible for the tax increases that Republican voters will experience & it affects more than #housing.

NewOldUser says

I fully support Trump, but this shit is a total slap in the face.

Perfect example of pretzel logic & voting/supporting those that are against one's best interest
at the cost of $500/month.

anon_99eb9 says

Go back to the politics forum if you want to troll about D vs. R

LOL
Where did you get the D vs. R part?? There's more than R and D; both are right of center parties.

If you think fiscal/economic policy, politics, and class divisions are not connected, you are in for more surprises.

FY, I preferred Trump over Hillary, as I believe she would have had worse long-term consequences. However, I am not surprised in the least of what is going on in Washington now.

HEY YOU / FP - this is not a politics thread. Remove yourselves if you have nothing on-topic to contribute.

Back to this crap tax plan proposal:

Standard Exemptions - gone at ~$4000 per family member?
State Income Tax - gone altogether?
Property Tax - capped at $10k?
MI limited to $500k on new purchases as interest rates are predictably going to rise? Wow...

What's good about this plan for middle class families again???

NewOldUser,

Yeah, you got screwed, buddy. How's this for being on topic?

Bye troll.

Sniper says

Remember, EVERY news source has an agenda, what agenda is YOURS pushing?

So that's my point - I haven't much about the points that I've brought up. Opposition is STILL harping on Obamacare, or the corporate cuts. Not very many have highlighted the negative impact to the housing markets in the most populated areas.

FP says

Yeah, you got screwed, buddy. How's this for being on topic?

It's ok companies like Coke will "invest" when they bring money back from oversees at a discount.

I am unhappy that they are moving int he right direction for corporations-to a territorial taxation system-same as the rest of the 1st world. however 8 million individuals/expats and countless others get no relief.
If you are going to do for corporations-why not add for ordinary Americans??
The dreaded Obozo the clown's FATCA is still there-nice.

Sniper says

Also, how many middle class families buy $500K+ houses? Do you know what the median house price is in the US?

There is no such thing as a house for $500K in some parts of the county, unless it's in a high crime neighborhood, and falling apart. Small condos you can get in a good neighborhood, but not houses.
What do you do?

Sniper says

Strategist says

There is no such thing as a house for $500K in some parts of the county,

You need to get out and see the rest of the country, prices in the real world aren't like CA. The median house price in the US is $315K.

I totally understand. My aunt has not been to sell her beautiful 7,000 sq ft home on a golf course even after 3 years, even though the price was heavily reduced to $300K
It's a small town in Illinois, where no one wants to live. What do you do?

Sniper says

Strategist says

What do you do?

Move out of CA, you'll be a lot happier and have more money.

Yes, if i had my choice, I would move to coastal Florida, where I think home prices (% wise) will outperform even California. I am a Fucking Capitalist Peeg. :)
But socially, we want want to be close to our kids, friends, family, and most importantly, our future grand kids.
Truthfully.....We are just a simple, modest family. We don't care for more. Trust me on that.

Oh and this wonderful shitty tax plan gets rid of the Obamacare tax mandate.

Strategist says

It's a small town in Illinois, where no one wants to live.

Maybe the people there just don't like to play golf?

Sniper says

Maybe the people there just don't like to play golf?

Or property taxes, they could be on the hook for 10-25k in taxes a year. Not to mention HOA.

AMT doesn't allow for SALT or even property tax deductions, so for those paying AMT dropping SALT isn't a big deal.

Until the house and senate reconcile their plans, this is an exercise in futility...

NewOldUser says

We need to talk about this shitty tax plan

NewOldUser says

To clarify, I'm actually losing about $40k in reductions.

It's a poor practice to expect your government cheese to be unending. The mortgage interest deduction needs to be phased out.

Strategist says

My aunt has not been to sell her beautiful 7,000 sq ft home on a golf course even after 3 years, even though the price was heavily reduced to $300K
It's a small town in Illinois, where no one wants to live. What do you do?

Drop the asking price until it sells.

Democrats have been trying to claim the SALT deduction is some sort of poor people savior. That's simply not true. It's actually wealthier Americans who benefit. How do I know? It's because I'm one of those Americans and have gone over the math with my accountant. First off most people don't itemize, this is just a fact. Secondly the deductions are worth far more to people in the highest tiers than compared to people in the lower tiers.



From WaPO (a leftist learning website):
"Look at the last column, which shows the percentage of the deduction received by various income levels. Taxpayers making less than $100,000 may comprise 53 percent of the tax filers, but they get less than 25 percent of the deductions. Tax filers making more than $100,000 get more than 75 percent."

By far the largest contributors to the tax system are the wealthy, overwhelmingly so. I know Romney got skewered for this in 2012, but he wasn't lying.

Here's another table that shows the actual SALT impact across various tax brackets.



See those higher tax brackets? Yeah we're talking 10 to 20 times the hit compared to some guy making $50,000 at an average W2 job.

So the whole "SALT Is going to make poor people pay more" is a bit of a stretch since they overwhelmingly take the standard deduction anyway, and even if they do itemize, wow, a solid $50 a month hit. That's about the monthly impact of the recent gas tax for most commuters in Los Angeles, but Democrats are gleefully onboard with that. Not to mention the extra $25 to $175 per vehicle on top.

Lots of dishonesty being spread here.

Booger says

NewOldUser says

To clarify, I'm actually losing about $40k in reductions.

It's a poor practice to expect your government cheese to be unending. The mortgage interest deduction needs to be phased out.

Agree which is why we need to stop giving the church a free ride. They’ve been harming the country and subverting the Constitution on our dime for far too long. Tax the Church. No more free ride Socialism for anti-American institutions

So users here are claiming that "upper middle class" is not middle class? That the lifestyle of a family making $220k per year is gross income in a high-cost area trying to provide the best possible life for their children is somehow equivalent to a millionaire?

anonymous says

Whatever break you think you are going to get from Washington will get taken away by local and state taxes.

That is the current status, yes.

The philosophy has long been that taxpayers should not have to pay double, meaning that if they support their SALT funds, they can catch a break from federal. The states are not going to simply reduce their taxes. Real life doesn't work that way.

anotheraccount says

It's ok companies like Coke will "invest" when they bring money back from oversees at a discount.

I am torn on this topic. On the one hand, we should not be encouraging the largest corporations to seek global havens. On the other, trickle-down has not historically materialized hence the moniker "voodoo economics."

NewOldUser says

The states are not going to simply reduce their taxes. Real life doesn't work that way.

You mean states aren't subject to austerity? Why? If you live in California still, or any high tax state that imposes a high individual or corporate tax burden, you really should ask yourself why you think your statement above is true.

NewOldUser says

On the other, trickle-down has not historically materialized hence the moniker "voodoo economics."

Trickle down does absolutely work. There is more personal wealth in the Western World than there has been individually in recorded human history across any nation on the Earth. Just because there are poor people doesn't mean that a highly profitable and hot private sector ISN'T a good thing.

Apple has a market cap approaching a Trillion dollars. How many people does the company employ? How many have cushy benefits plans? How many have bought nice homes in the Bay Area due to their huge salaries? How is this not an example of trickle down economics?

Goran_K says

So the whole "SALT Is going to make poor people pay more" is a bit of a stretch since they overwhelmingly take the standard deduction anyway, and even if they do itemize, wow, a solid $50 a month hit. That's about the monthly impact of the recent gas tax for most commuters in Los Angeles, but Democrats are gleefully onboard with that. Not to mention the extra $25 to $175 per vehicle on top.

Lots of dishonesty being spread here.

Yes, and, as usual, you are the one spreading dishonesty.

Absolutely nobody is saying that eliminating the SALT deductions will hurt the poor. It will hurt the middle class, however, and THAT is what people are saying.

anon_3b28c says

Absolutely nobody is saying that eliminating the SALT deductions will hurt the poor. It will hurt the middle class, however, and THAT is what people are saying.

I just proved that it doesn't hurt the middle class. It actually will have very very little effect on them in most states not named California. If you want to complain about high tax burdens, and actually live in California, you're pointing your finger at the wrong people.

The only people I see crying about this are people who live in the Bay Area, SoCal, or any other pricey part of California.

Hope the Republicans enjoy their tax increase.
Has the U.S House of Republicans eliminated all Federal taxes on any money that paid any tax on any item,
no matter how small or do they approve of double taxation.?

Republicans' continuation of any tax is REDISTRIBUTION SOCIALISM!
"Increasing taxes" will be added to the Republican platform.
Brilliant plan to destroy America.
Hope everyone relishes Republicans' next step to Communism.

All the talk about which class gets tax increases is a waste.
A Republican tax increase is a Republican tax increase no matter what class one is in.
Voting Republican is a sure way to experience voter remorse.

Goran_K says

I just proved that it doesn't hurt the middle class

Actually you proved it does. More than half of the middle class use itemize. So you showed the exact opposite of what you claim.

Goran_K says

The only people I see crying about this are people who live in the Bay Area, SoCal, or any other pricey part of California

Open your eyes then.

anon_f1625 says

He/She got screwed at least twice - first time was at birth.

@WookieMan, this is what @Patrick is talking about.

@Patrick, anons probably should be blocked at this time. The above is someone who was put on ignore but still wants to troll. Why give them the chance?

Goran_K says

You mean states aren't subject to austerity? Why?

The wrong people will get hit by that. Yes, there are bad budgets and bad spending in CA. Federal funds are also wastefully dispersed in CA. Remember, the entire government is connected. There is no separate country.

If you are advocating a state bankruptcy in the largest state economy in the country, that is a very strange position to take in relation to MAGA.