patrick.net

KimJongUn says

if your opponent has the air superiority.

That's why on 9/11 commercial planes, were stopped cold.

Apparently Republicans had never seen an aeroplane.
And today,Trump bows down to Wahabbi Saudis.

"MiddleEastInsanity "

Killing American servicemen & spending Republican tax dollars based on a Republican LIE.
Now we know why the House needs to increase taxes,they really know how to rack up military waste.
Lives don't matter to them,Niger,Niger,Niger,or they would have prosecuted anyone that has anything to do with the Middle East Iraq LIE,for the murder of Americans.
Should I bring up their failure to protect America on 9/11 from Wahabbi Saudi Arabia,a Middle East nation?
The Middle East is nothing,Trump takes it farther,to the Far East to buy import goods destroying America jobs.
Right here in the West,Trump sends Carrier jobs to Mexico.
Guess it's "good for the USA"

It's Republicans that are insane.

HEY YOU says

Has anyone taken a tour of Iran's nuclear weapons?
OH! That's right! They don't have any?

Words of Wisdom:
Those who stone women to death, cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons.
Strategist 2017

We can only hope that Iran nukes Mecca and demolishes that poisonous religion for all time.

Everybody knows that war in the middle east is good for America. Always will be. That's why Jared will fail.

Strategist says

That would be awesome.
I would like the Iranians to win because they seem to have more brains than than stupid Arabs.
In the end, I want Islam to lose.

The first thing that would happen is the Straights of Hormuz would be closed and 28% of the worlds oil supply would disappear leaving the US 9.5 million barrels a day short. Sure that would really be awesome.

bob2356 says

The first thing that would happen is the Straights of Hormuz would be closed

Is the Suez Canal broken?

bob2356 says

The first thing that would happen is the Straights of Hormuz would be closed and 28% of the worlds oil supply would disappear leaving the US 9.5 million barrels a day short.

Putin's wet dream.

Booger says

bob2356 says

The first thing that would happen is the Straights of Hormuz would be closed

Is the Suez Canal broken?

Look at the map - Suez is not enough.

Booger says

bob2356 says

The first thing that would happen is the Straights of Hormuz would be closed

Is the Suez Canal broken?

After they drag a supertanker over the desert,750 miles to the oil fields to fill it up then drag it back the suez canal will work fine.

Bring it on...i'm long on shale baby....light up those kitchens!

KimJongUn says

28% of the worlds oil supply would disappear leaving the US 9.5 million barrels a day short

anonymous says

"Saudi AF is head and shoulders above Persian rag-tag collection of obsolete hardware and out-of-practice pilots"

Browsing around last evening I could not find anything to support that statement.

Really? You browsed the whole interwebs day and night and couldn't find the list of hardware on both sides? I find it hard to believe. Try wikipedia if all else fails.

KimJongUn says

anonymous says

"Saudi AF is head and shoulders above Persian rag-tag collection of obsolete hardware and out-of-practice pilots"

Browsing around last evening I could not find anything to support that statement.

Really? You browsed the whole interwebs day and night and couldn't find the list of hardware on both sides? I find it hard to believe.

Why don't you provide the source of your information that the Saudi AF is head and shoulders above? You made the statement, back it up.

So why is the saudi head and shoulders above saudi military falling on it's face against a handful of really rag tag Houthi rebels? The problems of being Saudi (expecting someone else to do everything for you), the royal family not trusting the military, and the crazy structure of having 2 military organizations (Royal Saudi Land Forces (RSLF) and Saudi Arabian National Guard (SANG)) that do not coordinate and are actually to keep each other in check means it's very doubtful the Saudi's are going to last long against Iran in an all out war.

bob2356 says

The first thing that would happen is the Straights of Hormuz would be closed and 28% of the worlds oil supply would disappear leaving the US 9.5 million barrels a day short. Sure that would really be awesome.

Yeah sure. We heard the same BS when Saddam Hussein was about to get attacked. Super tankers could just anchor for a few days until the war is over.

bob2356 says

Why don't you provide the source of your information that the Saudi AF is head and shoulders above? You made the statement, back it up.

If the USA is supporting the Saudis, obviously they will have the air force WE deem they should have. The $350 billion in weapons we are selling to the Saudis are not WW2 planes.
The team we support will win the war.

anonymous says

By the way has anyone bothered to inquire as to what type of government the people over there want or did the U.S. and it's "allies" make that decision for them since we always know what is best for people.

They want an Islamic government. We tried elections with Palestine, and they elected Islamists. We tried that with Egypt, and they elected Islamists. These Islamists are too dangerous, and therefore we must decide what government they will have. Yes, it is arrogant, it is bullying and it is not fair. But why should we be fair to extremists who want to kill us?

Strategist says

But why should we be fair to extremists who want to kill us?

Fairness: ''Do unto others as they would do unto you - and do it first...." If we had the oil and they had the guns, they would simply take whatever they want, make everyone submit to their doctrine, and kill anyone who objects. Petrodollar kickbacks (baksheesh) corrupt western politicians and MSM to empower 'allies' who would kill us at the first opportunity.

bob2356 says

The first thing that would happen is the Straights of Hormuz would be closed and 28% of the worlds oil supply would disappear leaving the US 9.5 million barrels a day short. Sure that would really be awesome.

If the Iranians closed the straits of Hormuz, that would be the end of the Iranian Navy and Air Force, at a minimum.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

bob2356 says

The first thing that would happen is the Straights of Hormuz would be closed and 28% of the worlds oil supply would disappear leaving the US 9.5 million barrels a day short. Sure that would really be awesome.

If the Iranians closed the straits of Hormuz, that would be the end of the Iranian Navy and Air Force, at a minimum.

And the end of their life blood oil revenues. We have alternative sources of energy, but they have no alternative sources of income. We have them by the balls. :)

Strategist says

bob2356 says

The first thing that would happen is the Straights of Hormuz would be closed and 28% of the worlds oil supply would disappear leaving the US 9.5 million barrels a day short. Sure that would really be awesome.

Yeah sure. We heard the same BS when Saddam Hussein was about to get attacked. Super tankers could just anchor for a few days until the war is over.

Iraq doesn't control the Straights of Hormuz. Iraq is at the end of the Persian Gulf. Check a map. That would be the few days like the Iraq/Iran war. Those few days?

any war in that over-populated region is good.

Strategist says

bob2356 says

Why don't you provide the source of your information that the Saudi AF is head and shoulders above? You made the statement, back it up.

If the USA is supporting the Saudis, obviously they will have the air force WE deem they should have. The $350 billion in weapons we are selling to the Saudis are not WW2 planes.
The team we support will win the war.

That worked out so well when the North Vietnamese 1950's vintage mig 17/21 were shooting the Air Force and Navy F-4/F-8's out of the sky. At least the Navy got the message after 5 years and started up Top Gun in 1968 to train Navy pilots in air combat again. The number of Navy kills went way up after that while the Air Force sucked wind until the war ended.

The mig 29's the russians are selling Iran aren't WWII vintage either. They are capable of taking on an F 15. Pilot skill would be the deciding factor. The F5 is very capable also. They were used as aggressors for many years by the US Navy/Air Force and could regularly beat an F15 with the right pilot. You might want to read this. https://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1128/p01s04-wosc.html

Tactics and training win air wars not hardware. That's been proven time and time again.

Strategist says

And the end of their life blood oil revenues. We have alternative sources of energy, but they have no alternative sources of income. We have them by the balls. :)

Any blockage of the Straits is bad for Iran, since we'll seize outbound tankers carrying Iranian oil anywhere in the Indian or Pacific. Worse for China than us. We get very little oil from Iran.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-iran-oil/chinas-iran-oil-imports-to-hit-record-on-new-production-sources-idUSKBN14P15W

anonymous says

" there by a long shot. We are there for nefarious reasons that have little to do with freedom and democracy but we don't have the guts to get out since that would mean admitting we can't like without their oil.

Partial credit. We don’t need their oil, we need their petro dollars and the sandbox is a great place to explode ordinance and fuel the Military Industrial Complex. We aren’t there to “win” anything. Just to spend money and create demand for weapons. And make widows. Lots and lots of widows.

Quigley says

We aren’t there to “win” anything. Just to spend money and create demand for weapons.

Foreign Policy Mag, which has endorsed all of our failed ME policies, right up till today, is mad that Crown Prince (soon King) Muhammed is reforming Saudi Arabia.

They don't want to solve problems, they want them to keep going because Consultants have a vested interest in controlling but not eliminating the problem. If they eliminated it, a lucrative source of money and power would disappear. Nobody employees vacuum tube consultants like they used to in the 1950s.

The Wahabi-US Intel alliance has been decades in the making, it still has adherents.

Watch Prince Bandar "Bush" very very carefully. There were rumors of his arrest, but if Muhammed arrests or ousts Bandar, holy shit.

The secret alliance created around the Orb of Cofeve will destroy the legacy of failed Deep State MENA Policies.

PS The Saudi Special Forces are already training the Lebanese Army. The Crown Prince has been bitching about Hezbollah lately.

Very Interesting things are going to happen.

Here are the deep state hit pieces on the amazing, young, reformist, Crown Prince coming fast and furious:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/11/saudi-crown-prince-makes-dangerous-unprecedented-power-grab.html
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/11/10/donald-trump-has-unleashed-the-saudi-arabia-we-always-wanted-and-feared/?utm_content=buffer6b0f0&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

bob2356 says

Yeah sure. We heard the same BS when Saddam Hussein was about to get attacked. Super tankers could just anchor for a few days until the war is over.

Iraq doesn't control the Straights of Hormuz. Iraq is at the end of the Persian Gulf. Check a map. That would be the few days like the Iraq/Iran war. Those few days?

And did Iran manage to close the Straights during the Iraq/Iran war?

bob2356 says

The mig 29's the russians are selling Iran aren't WWII vintage either. They are capable of taking on an F 15. Pilot skill would be the deciding factor. The F5 is very capable also. They were used as aggressors for many years by the US Navy/Air Force and could regularly beat an F15 with the right pilot. You might want to read this. https://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1128/p01s04-wosc.html

Tactics and training win air wars not hardware. That's been proven time and time again.

Better technology wins the wars. Iran has neither tactics or better hardware. They could not even defeat Saddam Hussein.
Remember the 1967 war Israel had with all the Arabs? American weapons are far more superior to any communist crap.

Strategist says

American weapons are far more superior to any communist crap

Is that why we couldn’t win in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria? Or could it be that we never actually wanted to win. We just wanted to spend a fuckton of money blowing shit up to make our military industrial complex overlords richer.

Quigley says

Strategist says

American weapons are far more superior to any communist crap

Is that why we couldn’t win in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria? Or could it be that we never actually wanted to win. We just wanted to spend a fuckton of money blowing shit up to make our military industrial complex overlords richer.

We chose not to use the weapons that could have given us easy victories. That is our weakness.

bob2356 says

KimJongUn says

anonymous says

"Saudi AF is head and shoulders above Persian rag-tag collection of obsolete hardware and out-of-practice pilots"

Browsing around last evening I could not find anything to support that statement.

Really? You browsed the whole interwebs day and night and couldn't find the list of hardware on both sides? I find it hard to believe.

Why don't you provide the source of your information that the Saudi AF is head and shoulders above? You made the statement, back it up.

Really? You really-really need links to wikipedia pages listing HW Saudi and Persian air forces have? Can't you find them yourself? Or is it you don't understand what these plane names and numbers really mean?

KimJongUn says

bob2356 says

KimJongUn says

anonymous says

"Saudi AF is head and shoulders above Persian rag-tag collection of obsolete hardware and out-of-practice pilots"

Browsing around last evening I could not find anything to support that statement.

Really? You browsed the whole interwebs day and night and couldn't find the list of hardware on both sides? I find it hard to believe.

Why don't you provide the source of your information that the Saudi AF is head and shoulders above? You made the statement, back it up.

Really? You really-really need links to wikipedia pages listing HW Saudi and Persian air forces have? Can't you find them yourself? Or is it you don't understand what these pl...

The way it works in adult conversations is if you say something is true you are expected to provide some type of basis for the assertion.

Strategist says

We chose not to use the weapons that could have given us easy victories.

Which weapon was it that would have provided an easy victory in the air war over Vietnam or a ground victory in Iraq or Afghanistan. Remember that this is an adult conversation and it's true because I say it's true isn't good enough..

bob2356 says

The way it works in adult conversations is if you say something is true you are expected to provide some type of basis for the assertion.

The way it works in adult conversations is if you say something is FALSE you are expected to provide some type of basis for the assertion.

Strategist says

Better technology wins the wars.

I'm sure the nazi's are glad to know this after being crushed by the very low tech Russians.

Strategist says

Iran has neither tactics or better hardware.

Your study of Iran vs Saudi Arabia tactics and hardware is missing. Did you forget to post the link? Oh, right. It's true because I say it's true. How could I forget? So why is ti the Saudi's are having so much trouble in Yemen. You forgot to talk about that also.

bob2356 says

Strategist says

Better technology wins the wars.

I'm sure the nazi's are glad to know this after being crushed by the very low tech Russians.

They say,,,,"Britain won the war with American money, and Russian blood"
Low tech weapons wont cut it in todays world. We can turn any ME country into a parking lot without a single boot on the ground, if we wanted to.

bob2356 says

Your study of Iran vs Saudi Arabia tactics and hardware is missing. Did you forget to post the link? Oh, right. It's true because I say it's true. How could I forget? So why is ti the Saudi's are having so much trouble in Yemen. You forgot to talk about that also.

I don't know. It's not their brains that made them famous. I see you chickened out by not addressing the 1967 Israeli victories against all odds. Spectacular, wasn't it?

bob2356 says

Strategist says

We chose not to use the weapons that could have given us easy victories.

Which weapon was it that would have provided an easy victory in the air war over Vietnam or a ground victory in Iraq or Afghanistan. Remember that this is an adult conversation and it's true because I say it's true isn't good enough..

Have you seen that old bumper sticker......"One nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day"
We chose not to ruin their day. :)

Nukes are and have been off the table since the Cold War ended. Even then, the mutually assured destruction meant that they could never be used without destroying everything that meant anything. And now? Any nation which uses them to fight wars would immediately incur the wrath of the entire international community and be shunned as a pariah. Trade deals would be cancelled and money shunned. It would be social and economic death to use one of our nukes.

Ground troops are necessary to “win” any war, as the war zone must be cleared of combatants and secured against resurgence. Air strikes are showy ways of wasting money which can’t win the war on their own.

Therefore: if we aren’t committing a lot of ground troops, we aren’t serious about winning and we will accomplish nothing.

Quigley says

Ground troops are necessary to “win” any war, as the war zone must be cleared of combatants and secured against resurgence. Air strikes are showy ways of wasting money which can’t win the war on their own.

Therefore: if we aren’t committing a lot of ground troops, we aren’t serious about winning and we will accomplish nothing.

We will let the Saudis commit ground troops. They deserve to die.

anonymous says

Saudis ‘would let Israeli jets use their air space to attack Iran’

Saudi Arabia is prepared to let Israeli fighter jets use its airspace if it proves necessary to attack Iran’s nuclear program, an Israeli TV station reported Tuesday, highlighting growing ties in the shadow of Tehran’s nuclear drive.

Iran is fucked.

Strategist says

I don't know. It's not their brains that made them famous. I see you chickened out by not addressing the 1967 Israeli victories against all odds. Spectacular, wasn't it?

I did address the 1967 war. It falls under the category of superior tactics. A massive preemptive strike and using misdirection ala Ardenne forest requires no superior weaponry at all. It requires careful planning, top notch tactics, and great execution. You do know that the Egyptians had soviet weapons but Jordan had western weapons don't you? Jordan actually had somewhat newer and better weapons in some area's. Want to explain why Israel wiped out Jordan just as easily as Egypt if superior weaponry is the key?

Now do you care to address why the Saudi's superior weapons aren't doing shit in Yemen?