patrick.net

Gee, SCOTUS skeleton legislature called extortion and robbery illegal? How un-lawyerlike, they must be truly senile.

My wife is a teacher... they have salary schedules based off years of service and education level that determines your salary. Her dues of like maybe $1000 a year come out of her paychecks automatically, but if she stopped paying would she get the 5% pay raise the union just negotiated on the salary schedule this year?

Seems the school district would have to create a non-union salary schedule for employees that aren’t paying union dues... unless they wanted to undermine the union and pay non-union employees $1000 more a year ... watch everyone defect from the union and then after they kill the union give everyone a 10% paycut and hire scabs as babysitters. Then privatize the school system and profit.

Every knows private prisons do a such a great job of rehabilitating prisoners... lets just turn our schools in to private prisons with armed teachers and all will be fixed... right ?

Police unions will be fine... when your partner is paying extra union dues because you are freeloading and not paying while getting the benefits... he probably won’t have your back when shit goes down.

Other unions without armed members may be screwed.

BoomAndBustCycle says

Every knows private prisons do a such a great job of rehabilitating prisoners... lets just turn our schools in to private prisons with armed teachers and all will be fixed... right ?

California schools already suck - despite having some of the highest paid teachers in the country with very generous pensions.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/05/california-schools-earn-c-in-national-ranking/

Republicans hate freeloaders.... but isn’t this ruling the literal definition of freeloading? Not paying dues, but getting all the benefits and salary that were negotiated by the union?

socal2 says

This ruling alone will have far reaching consequences long after Trump's time in office.

It has permanently damaged the Democrat party in any state with public unions.

BoomAndBustCycle says

Republicans hate freeloaders.... but isn’t this ruling the literal definition of freeloading? Not paying dues, but getting all the benefits and salary that were negotiated by the union?

Don't think any Republicans are saying non-due paying employees should still get to belong to the union.

The unions and democrats made this mess - they can figure out how to untangle it.

There should never have been unions in government at all.

socal2 says

California schools already suck

Depends on the area.... bad neighborhoods and ghettos weigh down that score quite a bit. Cost of living requires paying teachers well. $75k in Los Angeles is equivalent to $35k in the mid-west.

socal2 says

Of course we should. These 2 unions are bankrupting cities all over the country.

See - Trump judges are bringing the Left/Right together.

Exactly. All these $400,000 a year fire chief pensions don't pay themselves.

BoomAndBustCycle says

Every knows private prisons do a such a great job of rehabilitating prisoners... lets just turn our schools in to private prisons with armed teachers and all will be fixed... right ?

60% of LAUSD students can't even read competently at their grade level. What is really happening is that piss poor public education is sending out incompetent people into the world who have zero chance of ever becoming productive in society, and eventually become Democrat voters.

Goran_K says

60% of LAUSD students can't even read competently at their grade level. What is really happening is that piss poor public education is sending out incompetent people into the world who have zero chance of ever becoming productive in society, and eventually become Democrat voters.

To be fair, that is more the fault of California Democrat politicians who welcome non-English speaking immigrants (both legal and illegal) with our stupid Sanctuary State laws to overwhelm our education systems.

Obligatory:

socal2 says

Goran_K says

60% of LAUSD students can't even read competently at their grade level. What is really happening is that piss poor public education is sending out incompetent people into the world who have zero chance of ever becoming productive in society, and eventually become Democrat voters.

To be fair, that is more the fault of California Democrat politicians who welcome non-English speaking immigrants (both legal and illegal) with our stupid Sanctuary State laws to overwhelm our education systems.

Guess which party teachers unions endorse 100% of the time.

Hassan_Rouhani says

Guess which party teachers unions endorse 100% of the time.

No secret at all!

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=P04

It's always a tragedy when a liberal has to actually earn money.

socal2 says

Hassan_Rouhani says

Guess which party teachers unions endorse 100% of the time.

No secret at all!

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=P04

Thanks for ruining the surprise!

Goran_K says

60% of LAUSD students can't even read competently at their grade level.

When you can't fire bad teachers, you end up with lots of bad teachers, which leads to bad scores.
What a fucked up system.

In Il they have made it constitutional that any promis emade to public sector unions can never ever be changed. I eman -wtf????????///

Feux Follets says

Strategist says

What a fucked up system.

Let's throw more money at the problem....

That's exactly what they will do. And as usual it won't work, because paying bad teachers more, still leaves you with the same bad teachers.
Time to flush the system.

Feux Follets says

We have a great and proud tradition in this country of making promises and breaking them,

How about the promise they made to tax payers to not let their cities turn into shit holes with high crime, shitty schools, crappy infrastructure AND high taxes because they are spending so much of our public money on corrupt union benefits packages?

Right now when a city goes bankrupt (most likely due to pensions), everyone but the government workers get promises broken. Citizens see their taxes increased and services decreased resulting in more crime and decreased property values and Bond holders get pennies on the dollar.

Shouldn't everyone have some skin in the game when the money runs out?

Strategist says

When you can't fire bad teachers, you end up with lots of bad teachers, which leads to bad scores.

Perhaps there is an even bigger problem of kids who do not want to learn, as their parents do not care and have never learned themselves. Teachers can do very little if they do not have support of parents. It is somewhat unfair to blame only teachers. What leverage do they have to make someone learn and do homework?

Allow corporal punishment for those who fail and learning will skyrocket!

Edit: I also do not think that the biggest problem is teachers' unions. Probably police and firefighters unions are much worse (esp in my neck of woods), especially since police unions tend to shield its members form criminal responsibility for their actions.

Feux Follets says

and eventually become Democrat voters.

When you’re sub-competent as an individual, it’s desirable to hitch your wagon to a group that can both give you benefits and confer a “victim” status on you rather than the status you more richly deserve: LOSER.

When poor dumb white people losers do that, they get interested in white supremacy, because “at least I ain’t black!”

It’s the same thing in both cases, whether they’re championing the KKK or La Raza or the NAACP. It’s different forms of ducking the same LOSER label they actually deserve.

drB6 says

Allow corporal punishment for those who fail and learning will skyrocket!

The beatings at lunchtime will continue until grades improve!

Quigley says

When you’re sub-competent as an individual, it’s desirable to hitch your wagon to a group that can both give you benefits and confer a “victim” status on you rather than the status you more richly deserve: LOSER.

When poor dumb white people losers do that, they get interested in white supremacy, because “at least I ain’t black!”

It’s the same thing in both cases, whether they’re championing the KKK or La Raza or the NAACP. It’s different forms of ducking the same LOSER label they actually deserve.

True, but Democrats are the only ones that use victim based intersectionality to win the loser crowd vote and get into office.

Feux Follets says

Curious though on those last four words...anything to base that on other than conjecture ?

Any decrepit inner city in the United States.

About time

Goran_K says

60% of LAUSD students can't even read competently at their grade level.

That's OK because in LA, being able to order hooker boots over the internet from Zappos with a stolen credit card qualifies you for a high school diploma.

LA and SF are examples of liberal priorities...

education sucks
housing sucks
water shortages
families are struggling
high taxes

but gays can merry each other, homeless everywhere, hiring for skin color and not ability to do the job, and unions with double pensions!!! ultimate equality, everyone down to the bottom, while government lives it up. why isn't everyone happy? Oh yeah and waiters are going to be fined $1000 if they give you a straw you didnt ask for, fucking criminals!!!!.

FortWayne says

LA and SF are examples of liberal priorities...

education sucks
housing sucks
water shortages
families are struggling
high taxes

but gays can merry each other, homeless everywhere, hiring for skin color and not ability to do the job, and unions with double pensions!!! ultimate equality, everyone down to the bottom, while government lives it up. why isn't everyone happy? Oh yeah and waiters are going to be fined $1000 if they give you a straw you didnt ask for, fucking criminals!!!!.

If you have problems with the Great Socialist Paradise, then go live in Venezuela. You'll see that California has a long of way to go before it has completely fucked the pooch with liberal politics.

God Bless California, the carcass will keep kicking for the parasites for the foreseeable future! If it ain't completely dead, the libs can keep suckling off of it!

Public Union debt is going to bankrupt Illinois, and it will eventually catch California.

Better to kill off the cancer before it spreads.

Goran_K says

Public Union debt is going to bankrupt Illinois, and it will eventually catch California.

Better to kill off the cancer before it spreads.

Says the guy that moved to Nevada.

BoomAndBustCycle says

salary schedules based off years of service and education level that determines your salary

There's the problem in a nutshell. Non-union workplaces have salary schedules based on productivity. (Well, that's the theory anyway.)

I wonder if I can go way back to my mandatory Teamster's union and it's paycheck tax, from working in the cannery, and recover all the money with interest. Where are those class action hyenas when you need them?

Feux Follets says

Goran_K says

it will eventually catch California

California is already bankrupt but slight of hand with the books keeps the game going.

If California is truly sunk, the Democrats rowed the boat into that calamity.

Feux Follets says

It will be - nothing to worry about. No money to pay - no promise to keep.

The court has to rule it unconstitutional. 300k a year public sector pigs living off people making 30k a year-the new Lords and the serfs.

FortWayne says

LA and SF are examples of liberal priorities...

education sucks
housing sucks
water shortages
families are struggling
high taxes

but gays can merry each other, homeless everywhere, hiring for skin color and not ability to do the job, and unions with double pensions!!! ultimate equality, everyone down to the bottom, while government lives it up. why isn't everyone happy? Oh yeah and waiters are going to be fined $1000 if they give you a straw you didnt ask for, fucking criminals!!!!.

FortWayne says

why isn't everyone happy?

I'll tell you why I'm happy. I just don't give a shit.
I was happy when I had almost nothing. Because I knew the future would be good.
I was happy when I had enough. Because I knew things were never gonna get worse.
I was happy when I had more than enough. Because I like to be happy.

Feux Follets says

Two Questions for Goran and Quigley

Hold on there, according to Patrick's rules, you're not allowed to ask other posters here questions. That's breaking the rules and considered a Personal attack.

That's exactly what happened in this thread, scroll down to comments numbered in the 70s

http://patrick.net/post/1316991/2018-06-25-maxine-waters-calls-for-physical-assaults-on-white-house-employees

Goran_K says

Public Union debt is going to bankrupt Illinois, and it will eventually catch California.

Better to kill off the cancer before it spreads.

I'm in. How do you kill the cancer when Maxie Pad and company are still spreading it?

Sniper says

Feux Follets says

Two Questions for Goran and Quigley

Hold on there, according to Patrick's rules, you're not allowed to ask other posters here questions. That's breaking the rules and considered a Personal attack.

Oh boy, we are gonna lose Feux. I kinda like him. I think he's OK.

Goran_K says

SCOTUS eviscerates Public Sector Unions

"Eviscerates" is a little strong.

Peer pressure will have most people full members of their unions. A lot of schools were pre-emptively making sure everyone, or nearly everyone is a paying member in preparation for this ruling before it happened (months ago).

What ? Are they going to have to raise dues $4/month to have the same money coming is as before ?

This is a microscopic step in the direction of what a lot of Right wing idiots want, but "eviscerates ?"

Lol. Sorry to burst your bubble, but no. Dream on.

I wonder about police unions ? On the one hand, a lot of them are probably republicans. But do you really think they aren't going to get pressure from their brethren to chip in ? Not just for protecting the collective bargaining for their salaries and pensions which are way more expensive than others public sector pensions. But I'm assuming their unions also cover a certain amount of a legal defense fund in the event a cop gets accused of wrongdoing or even murder. What kind of cop isn't going to pay in ? You gotta know the peer pressure is huge.