patrick.net

curious2 says

In order to produce a blue wave, Democrats need a coherent agenda

First of all, the unofficial leader of the party, Hillary Clinton, needs to shut her mouth. Since her defeat, she's been on the road, barking & screaming at the world, passively indicating that the election was some-how misappropriated from her. In contrast, Al Gore went silent, after the 2000 Florida debacle, where the election was in the fact, STOLEN, in the most horrific way possible ... one which was sanctioned by the Supreme Court. So by the following 2004 election season, the Democrats had new leadership and could move on. Today, in place of Gore's graceful exit, we have the Cult of Hillary Clinton which is unabating.

LeonDurham says

Not by every metric. Like real wages

IMHO, we're undergoing a structural change in the economy which is independent of political parties. I believe we're in the early stages of mass automation where employees do not have any leverage on wage increases. A lot of companies can use contract labor to fill stop-gaps in their delivery cycles and thus, not have to maintain permanent headcount, while at the same time CIOs look towards expert systems to maximize the workload of the existing crop of ppl on the permanent payroll. Face it, moving forward, a lot of ppl will need more than 1 job to earn what they used to earn, in the pre-AI era.

Men who are collectivists are cuckolds.

MrMagic says

eople are spending like crazy, apparent your wage claim means nothing...

Walmart's best sales in a decade show US consumer may be strongest in years because of the tax cut, jobs growth.

lol--we're measuring health of the economy by spending at Walmart?? bwahahahahahaha.

Is it possible people are spending more at the cheapest, crappiest, lowest quality crap because they can't afford anything else?? Higher spending at Walmart probably indicates a crappier economy.

Rin says

IMHO, we're undergoing a structural change in the economy which is independent of political parties. I believe we're in the early stages of mass automation where employees do not have any leverage on wage increases.

I agree. Trump and his cult can blame immigration all they want, but they are missing the bigger picture.

curious2 says

In order to produce a blue wave, Democrats need a coherent agenda,

That would be good but unnecessary. In this I agree with Steve Bannon it's all about Trump, who is most motivated to support or oppose. IMO The polls that will be most indicative of the results, especially in House races are what % of a district strongly support or strongly oppose Trump. Those people will vote. We shall see in November.

rdm says

That would be good but unnecessary. In this I agree with Steve Bannon it's all about Trump, who is most motivated to support or oppose.

I don't see how Democrats could oppose Trump more now than they did in 2016, when they imagined him as nuclear Hitler. If it's all about Trump, then he wins. In this I agree with Oprah, who advised, "Do not give your energy to the other side." If Democrats want to win, they need to rally around something that can motivate majorities of voters in most states and Congressional districts. In 2016, Democrats had already TDS, and it was not enough to persuade enough voters in most districts and states. So, to win, I do think Democrats need a coherent agenda to put Americans first.

curious2 says

in 2016, Democrats had TDS, and it was not enough. So, I do think Democrats need a coherent agenda to put Americans first.

Yup voters like me. I have no problem voting dme, republic. IT is more what they represent-not the label. In IL, voting dem is suicidal-they support public unions and refuse to do anything about the disastrous real estate taxes. They have the votes to amend the constitution-but instead pretend to ass some bandage measures which they know the court wills trike down.

In general, mass unlimited immigration, tariffs/free trade(surprisingly this was a strong dem position-now dems loathe it) etc. Now I support gay marriage etc-I am libertarian-but I don't support 32 or is it 112 genders and requiring us to keep all these different bathrooms or anyone saying they feel x gender at this moment and so use x bathroom. If not that is a violation equal to slavery and the holocaust.

What scares me is the SJW, free speech and violence to ensure that only one form of thought is accepted. I saw it at the Trump rally and the recent racist turn of the dems-where they were calling the ICE agent the N word and house n*gga in Portland and several such incidents-chasing Milo out of a NY bar calling him NAZI-antifa-these terrify me for our future.

Last but not least and absolute dela killer-socialism, where they want government control of businesses and redistribution-hell no.

Not to mention Obama's use of the police state to target his rivals-that has gone horrible-Thank God for Trump.

In life we sometime come to a fork. The dem want us to go to a fork where government controls everything, from what you think, what you can express, redistributing your assets and basically eb where Russia, Cambodia, Germany all went.

The repubs are pointing us towards freedom, while the govt protects us from places like cHina etc , but true freedom. I believe we are in a dangerous place and the democrats could lead us into terrible disaster-a world where the govt decides everything-the question-are there enough people as the dems say "woke" enough o move away from the commie filth?

Aphroman says

emember that Trump was elected solely because the DNC went with Hillary.

Remember the part about the DNC stealing the primary for Hillary? That probably had something to do with it

LeonDurham says

lol--we're measuring health of the economy by spending at Walmart?? bwahahahahahaha.

Is it possible people are spending more at the cheapest, crappiest, lowest quality crap because they can't afford anything else?? Higher spending at Walmart probably indicates a crappier economy.

Because their manufacturing jobs were outsourced by Neoliberals?

Hey, what IS the Democratic solution to outsourcing?

Let me guess, Education for jobs that don't exist like Nantotech Engineer and AI Psychologist. Perfect for 55 year old Mike the Steamfitter.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Hey, what IS the Democratic solution to outsourcing?

See---this is undoubtedly the most frustrating part of posting here. This poster has asked this question multiple times before and it's been answered for him multiple times before.

He lets a month or two go by, and then asks it again, pretending that it hasn't been answered for him multiple times before.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Because their manufacturing jobs were outsourced by Neoliberals?

Except far more have been automated away.

LeonDurham says

Except far more have been automated away.

Nope. Not looking at Shenzhen they haven't. People there today still slump over electronics with soldering irons just like they did at Philco in Ohio in the 70s.

LeonDurham says

See---this is undoubtedly the most frustrating part of posting here. This poster has asked this question multiple times before and it's been answered for him multiple times before.

He lets a month or two go by, and then asks it again, pretending that it hasn't been answered for him multiple times before.

Nope, it's never been answered. Everytime I ask it I'm told it was answered or I get a dodge. Another one I like is how the import of millions of unskilled is a good thing when our own unskilled have been doing like shit these past few decades.

Along with "If the Russians hacked the server, how come the DNC hasn't thrust it upon the FBI/NSA for forensic investigation?"

Meanwhile, while every single other metric from unemployment to youth unemployment to GDP growth to retail sales has been doing fantastic over most of the past quarters, the economy sucks because one metric isn't moving well.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Nope, it's never been answered.

bwahahahaha.

You don't remember the Dem platform being cut and pasted on here for you? And linked to it? Really?

Shall I do it for the 4th time?

LeonDurham says

You don't remember the Dem platform being cut and pasted on here for you? And linked to it? Really?

4th Time? Is it vague and education blah-blah-blah, or does it have a comprehensive, full-spectrum answer? It must have been pretty cookie cutter that I don't remember it.

Just link to one of the other 4.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Meanwhile, we have posters who say the Economy sucks, because one number isn't improving as rapidly this quarter, but every single other metric from unemployment to youth unemployment to GDP growth to retail sales has been doing fantastic

One number? Let's see:

Jobs created down.
Real wages down (and NEGATIVE!)
Federal Deficit up.

Shall I continue?

Federal Deficit was increasing under Obama and has been going up for most of the past 35-40 years, that's no change.
Jobs created down is a false metric, since the unemployment rate is at record lows.
Real Wages were also down under Obama in 2013-2014 and certainly most of Obama's term before that, when that should have been a time real wages were booming since it was far from the trough.

Record Unemployment since 1969 (tied for 2000)
Record Youth Unemployment in 52 years
GDP Growth an "Impossible" 4.1% after many quarters of good growth
Retail Sales jumped 6%
Huge new steel and electronics factories opening up

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Federal Deficit was increasing under Obama and has been going up for most of the past 35-40 years, that's no change

Womp, womp. Deficit was reduced by 1/3 under Obama. Try again.

Unemployment rate has simply continued its decline that started under Obama.
GDP is actually slightly lower than under Obama. Obama had two quarters in a row of 5.1% and 4.9%. One quarter of 4.1% is nothing special.

LeonDurham says

Womp, womp. Deficit was reduced by 1/3 under Obama. Try again.

Womp, womp.

The national debt almost DOUBLED under Obama from about $10T to $20T.

Nice try playing games with deficits, we were more indebted after Obama than before.

LeonDurham says

Unemployment rate has simply continued its decline that started under Obama.

Unemployment has really done well under Trump. Obama's recovery was sluggish, it should have been roaring back by 2011.

LeonDurham says

GDP is actually slightly lower than under Obama. Obama had two quarters in a row of 5.1% and 4.9%. One quarter of 4.1% is nothing special.

GDP "Growth" coming out of a horrific recession of "Negative Growth" isn't the same as a sustained boom. Like I said, the hallmark of the Obama "recovery" was how slow and weak it was. Even in 2010, Obama lost millions of jobs.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

The national debt almost DOUBLED under Obama from about $10T to $20T.

Read the quote again. Deficit and Debt are NOT the same thing.

Obama reduced the deficit. Trump is ballooning it out of control.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Unemployment has really done well under Trump. Obama's recovery was sluggish, it should have been roaring back by 2011.

Really? Why don't you post the unemployment rates since 2008 so we can judge.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

GDP "Growth" coming out of a horrific recession of "Negative Growth" isn't the same as a sustained boom. Like I said, the hallmark of the Obama "recovery" was how slow and weak it was. Even in 2010, Obama lost millions of jobs.

Womp, womp, again. Those growth rates were in 2014.

LeonDurham says

Read the quote again. Deficit and Debt are NOT the same thing.

Obama reduced the deficit. Trump is ballooning it out of control.

Obama increased the debt, however. It is not "Ballooning" out of control under Trump.

Obama's first budget has a $1.3T deficit. T for Trillion.

It was the Republicans, not Obama, that forced a sequestration in 2013 that ended up the first Obama era budget not topping a Trillion-dollar deficit

LeonDurham says

Womp, womp, again. Those growth rates were in 2014.

Long Delayed. Those should have been in 2010 or 2011 at the very latest. More likely to do with the huge Republican surge in 2010 and 2012.

Meanwhile, all the numbers for the Entire Trump Presidency are more than respectable, and there are no signs of slowing down.

In 2012, Obama bragged he created 3M jobs since 2010, and anemic number of 90,000 per month, well below the population growth rate, and not only not adequate for that point after the trough of a recession, but rather recessionary in and of itself.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Obama increased the debt, however. It is not "Ballooning" out of control under Trump.

Obama's first budget has a $1.3T deficit. T for Trillion.

It was the Republicans, not Obama, that forced a sequestration in 2013 that ended up the first Obama era budget not topping a Trillion-dollar deficit

Are you kidding me? Obama inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression. Trump was given a booming economy.

And spare me the nonsense that all Republicans spew--either the President is responsible for the budget or he isn't. You can't blame him for the increased spending without crediting him for reducing spending. Unless you're a dishonest "team Republican" member.

Aphroman says

solely because the DNC went with Hillary.

And yet, what part of her platform have they changed really? Some few Democrats campaign on Bernie's platform, but most in the Congress demand mandatory HeritageFoundationCare aka Hillary's Plan aka Obamneycare. And, they "can't wait" to get more Muslims into the Congress. Hillary's problems included the fact that she campaigned honestly (in the sense that she said what she would do, even though she lied about why she would do it) on some really unpopular things: for example, she tried to sell the HeritageFoundationCare mandate, claiming it was a good idea, while Obama campaigned against it but then spun around and signed it, lying along the way including at least one "lie of the year" (per PolitiFact). Hillary acknowledged on TV that lethal terrorism "is clearly rooted in Islamic thinking," and her e-mails acknowledged her Saudi clients were principal funders of terrorism worldwide, but she insisted on spreading Islam and now Democrats "can't wait" to see more of it in Congress.

In this thread, we continue to see the same attempted subterfuge. Obama's deficits were front-loaded, so instead of the fact that he doubled the debt, we hear partisans claim that he reduced the deficit. It's unreal, and it doesn't fool enough people in enough places to win.

I agree with the 50/50 forecast from 2Scoops, a lot can happen in 80 days, but so far I see more Democrats repeating the same playbook from 2016 rather than 2008.

curious2 says

Obama's deficits were front-loaded, so instead of the fact that he doubled the debt, we hear partisans claim that he reduced the deficit.

lol--they're called honest posters.

LeonDurham says

Are you kidding me? Obama inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression. Trump was given a booming economy.

Obama had one of the weakest recoveries in US History, particularly outside of the Coastal Enclaves. By 2012 we still were behind millions of jobs, with pathetic growth rates, despite adding trillions to the Debt. Like I said, one or two quarters of 4 and 5% years after the trough of a recession is NOTHING to brag about, it's something to be concerned about.

Nobody, not even CNN - is making the case that Trump is doing a banging job on the economy.

Real Wages have stunk for most of the past few decades and won't be fixed in a day. It will be fixed by cutting off the nearly unlimited labor supply for big companies.

curious2 says

but Democrats demand spreading Islam and "can't wait" to see more of it in Congress.

See this is a good example of a strawman argument.

LeonDurham says

See this is a good example of a strawman argument.

Not at all. my whole life, Democrat Activists have whinged about religion in politics, Jesus/God in the Public Forum, Separation of Church and State etc. etc.

Now that there are two conservative Muslim candidates, the Democrats are dancing around about how wonderful it is to have religious people running for office.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Nobody, not even CNN - is making the case that Trump is doing a banging job on the economy.

Uh, pat.netters sure make that case.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Real Wages have stunk for most of the past few decades and won't be fixed in a day. It will be fixed by cutting off the nearly unlimited labor supply for big companies.

Fix it? All he's done has made it worse.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Not at all. my whole life, Democrat Activists have whinged about religion in politics, Jesus/God in the Public Forum, Separation of Church and State etc. etc.

Now that there are two conservative Muslim candidates, the Democrats are dancing around about how wonderful it is to have religious people running for office.

OK--please share any example of a Dem demanding that Islam be spread.

LeonDurham says

Fix it? All he's done has made it worse.

Look at your own chart and explain 2013 and 2014, those boom years of Obama. Way after the trough of a recession, when wages should be booming.

LeonDurham says

OK--please share any example of a Dem demanding that Islam be spread.

Not what I said. I said that before, they "worried" about religion in politics. Now, they are celebrating that conservative Muslims are running for office as Dems.

Even if they married for visas.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Look at your own chart and explain 2013 and 2014, those boom years of Obama. Way after the trough of a recession, when wages should be booming.

Why? You're the one saying the economy sucked under Obama and it's much better now. Please show me how real wages going down and negative is better?

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Not what I said. I said that before, they "worried" about religion in politics. Now, they are celebrating that conservative Muslims are running for office as Dems.

Even if they married for visas.

Yes it is. I claimed the quote was a strawman and you said, "not at all".

So please show me how it's not a strawman.

Too Much Religion! Stop asking candidates about their (Christian) Religion! Too much influence by (Christian) religion!
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/21/more-americans-say-too-much-religion-in-politics/
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/359571-dem-lawmaker-theres-too-much-religion-in-politics
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6906693.stm
http://prospect.org/article/god-republican-why-politics-dangerous-religion-0

But when it's Islam, it's GOOD!
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/first-muslim-elected-to-congress/
https://newrepublic.com/minutes/136605/nomination-muslim-federal-judge-obama-cements-reputation-president-firsts
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/politics/primary-results-minnesota-wisconsin.html
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2018-elections/2018/06/23/america-grew-muslim-democrats-find-welcoming-home-state-convention

Do you think that is the same as saying "Dems demanding Islam be spread"?

LeonDurham says

So please show me how it's not a strawman.

1) It was a direct quote, which I have since turned into a link.
2) You can find more examples of the same elsewhere, e.g.

"Tlaib also supported Omar's run, sending a dozen of her campaign workers to Minnesota to canvas for Omar the weekend before the election.

"I can't wait to walk onto the floor of United States Congress hand in hand with you. So incredibly proud of you," Tlaib said of Omar on Twitter.
***
Omar and Tlaib have vehemently opposed the president's ban on travelers from several Muslim-majority countries, and in 2016 Tlaib famously heckled Trump during his speech in Detroit.

"When you see a Palestinian person with your name and faith succeed, it shows [the government] can ban us from coming into the country, but not from getting elected," Tlaib told ABC News last week.
***
In her heavily Democratic district, less than 5 percent of the population identifies as Arab-American.
***
"I will fight back against every racist and oppressive structure that needs to be dismantled," Tlaib declared in her victory speech in a room largely filled with Arab-Americans."

OK, good luck with that, congratulations on the primary, but it doesn't portend a blue wave. BTW, I bolded the "can't wait" quotation for you; you can thank me later.

I'm looking for something saying "Dems demanding Islam be spread"

Nothing in the above says anything remotely like that.

LeonDurham says

Do you think that is the same as saying "Dems demanding Islam be spread"?

I see it as a double standard: Christian Belief undesirable; Muslim Belief desirable.

Labour is doing the same in the UK by the way.

I see the new PM of Pakistan lost his opportunity to condemn Theofascist Blasphemy laws, however.

LeonDurham says

Do you think that is the same as saying "Dems demanding Islam be spread"?

Hillary campaigned on importing (at American expense) at least 65k "Syrian" migrants in her first year, more to follow, 97% Sunni because the Syrian Christians and Shia were sheltering with Assad in order to avoid getting exterminated by the Sunni militias that Hillary was arming (also at American expense). Merkel imported 10x more Sunnis into other NATO countries. PatNet has a whole thread on Islamic Hijrah (totally different from the Hindu word hijra), including a map showing the "charity" IRAP serving Muslim-majority client countries by spreading Islam into NATO. Current Democrats campaign against the President's travel ban and demand to import more "refugee" Sunnis. So yes, Democrats were and are campaigning on spreading Islam.