patrick.net

Tenpoundbass says

http://www.talkmarkets.com/content/global-markets/is-the-usa-too-weak-to-let-china-succeed?post=193508&uid=4798

Ten pound brain you are not. Read the article. Realize that energy is why we are shooting ourselves in the foot and it needs to be researched and fixed. Apple is not the only company that will suffer over energy concerns. Notice how China stopped buying US oil.

Goran_K says

I guess Gary is right. The only solution is to let China steal all of our IP and allow them to put massive tariffs on us to compensate.

People said the same thing about Japan. We do fine with Japan. China is no different. Over a billion potential customers. But we turned on them. And we will lose them and the world economy will shrink. But I guess you will be able to find a cheap house in the Bay Area if you can find financing.

"...the small dip in energy consumption per capita in 2008 and 2009 led to a serious recession in many countries of the world."

In other news: "Gale-force winds caused by swaying trees".

personal

bob2356 says

Gee, what happened to moderator Goran? I guess it only counts when you insult a right wing patnetter. .

I flagged my own post because Bob is right.
Even if Gary and I have shared a boisterous banter for the last 12 years on Patnet and I would even have a drink with the guy if his Muslim leanings would allow him to have a girly drink.

Now back to Gary's orginal post.
China taking a sharp Left back to Communism will be their own undoing.
They are set up with many cities that could be productive like the world has never seen. And most of that consumption could be domestic.
But it would require them taking that same money they would normally spend on State owned Socialist businesses. And instead using it to lend out to entrepreneurial Chinese.
Those are one of the most pennywise, save savvy, and Loan repayment people on the planet. These are people that manage to live on the street, under their pushcarts in the existing Economic/Industrial hubs in the larger mainland Chinese Cities. While managing to save up $20K to $50K in a few years. There's a hell of a boom of National GDP just waiting to explode if China would nurture it, and lean back to Capitalism or at least a flavor of it that suits their needs.

Then there's the One China Road Hwy network they want to build. That will also need them to be more flexible to Capitalism than Socialist or Communism for them to make that reality. Nobody would want to make an Economic Agreement with a Communist Country that involves Jointly creating the Highway that Communist Super Power could use to invade and destroy you.

China's future is bright. If they stop trying to be our Cracker Jack prize manufacturer and focus on their own needs and consumption.

Gary Anderson says

Donald Trump wants to keep China down. The argument is all about Tech, but that misses the issue. It is about something other than tech. It is about energy. Tech is just collateral damage. And it is a cultural war, and Trump wants to war with the world. He wants a nation with 4.4 percent of the world population to control the world. It is dangerous and we could very well see the end of civilization:

We control the world now, and all I see is a world wide boom in prosperity.
Trump wants free and fair trade with China and everyone else. Stealing our technology is not acceptable.

HEYYOU says

Tonight's homework: How many times have Rep/Cons spoken in public & held rallies to stop China's theft?

Millions.

China has MASSIVE domestic demand that is kept in check with an artificially cheap currency.

Chinese have so much savings, but if the Chicoms let the currency float it would appreciate rapidly, massively increasing buying power and getting Chinese to go on shopping sprees.

China’s biggest problem is that it’s ruled by authoritarians who’ve reluctantly let slip enough leash for their people to make some wealth. They need to keep moving towards freedoms and away from strict Totalitarianism if they want their success to continue. And that is the next step towards them joining the First World. They must continue to grow and bolster their local economy.

It’s the right time for us to have a real trade agreement with China. A big boy agreement like we have with Europe and Mexico and Canada. Trump is working on that.

Trade with China will continue. It MUST continue. So it will.

Strategist says

We control the world now, and all I see is a world wide boom in prosperity.
Trump wants free and fair trade with China and everyone else. Stealing our technology is not acceptable.

The game isn't over, Zionist. Truth is, the trade gap widened in August. Trump is losing. People vote with their purchases and the strong dollar is making it less affordable anyway to buy American.

Gary Anderson says

Strategist says

We control the world now, and all I see is a world wide boom in prosperity.
Trump wants free and fair trade with China and everyone else. Stealing our technology is not acceptable.

The game isn't over, Zionist. Truth is, the trade gap widened in August. Trump is losing. People vote with their purchases and the strong dollar is making it less affordable anyway to buy American.

So what should Trump do? Increase the trade deficit even further, or reduce it?

Gary Anderson says

The game isn't over, Zionist.

Thank you Gary.
The choice was between supporting terrorists and suicide bombers, or those defending against them. I chose the latter. Who did you choose?

Strategist says

The choice was between supporting terrorists and suicide bombers, or those defending against them. I chose the latter. Who did you choose?

It is well known that Israel supported ISIS, as did the USA. So, I choose neither. Trump is destroying ISIS, sort of, but then he is fomenting danger in Iran.

Here is what I think will happen, Trump could make the world a much dangerous place than even the neocons because it is based upon his mood.

But you are off the subject, Strategist. The most dangerous thing in the world is the trade war coupled with the emerging market meltdown.

Gary, guys like you said same things about Reagan and Soviet Union. Liberals were peeing their pants back in the 80's on a daily basis crying themselves to sleep. At the end America became stronger and better.

Same thing is today with China, we have an economic war with them, not an arms race. We either continue policy of weakness, and let them take us over and destroy us. Or we defend America and it's people (us). I'm with Trump, Peace Through Strength.

Gary Anderson says

But you are off the subject, Strategist. The most dangerous thing in the world is the trade war coupled with the emerging market meltdown.

Why wait, surrender now Gary. Conveniences today are much more precious than freedom tomorrow right?

Gary Anderson says

Strategist says

The choice was between supporting terrorists and suicide bombers, or those defending against them. I chose the latter. Who did you choose?

It is well known that Israel supported ISIS, as did the USA. So, I choose neither.

I'm so glad Israel and USA supported ISIS, and not the Muslims. I wonder why.

Gary Anderson says

But you are off the subject, Strategist. The most dangerous thing in the world is the trade war coupled with the emerging market meltdown.

Thank God. I always thought nukes in the hands of dictators and Muslims was the most dangerous thing.

FortWayneIndiana says

Gary, guys like you said same things about Reagan and Soviet Union. Liberals were peeing their pants back in the 80's on a daily basis crying themselves to sleep. At the end America became stronger and better.

"We have to accept the fact that the Soviet Union will be around a long time and we have to get along, we should think about unilateral nuclear disarmament" - was basically the liberal line throughout the 80s.

Gary Anderson says

The most dangerous thing in the world is the trade war coupled with the emerging market meltdown.

Any proof of this? Not a fan of Trump, but please link some indicators that are showing a "meltdown" coming.

Also, not sure how it's a trade war. We're the largest consumers per capita. Why do we owe any other country a damn thing? They should be paying US to send their goods here or make their own economies better. This is one of the things I do like about Trump.

WookieMan says

Also, not sure how it's a trade war. We're the largest consumers per capita. Why do we owe any other country a damn thing? They should be paying US to send their goods here or make their own economies better. This is one of the things I do like about Trump.

Exactly. We ought to have the attitude that we are the Best Mall in the Area and charging a fortune for out-of-town businesses to set up shop.

FortWayneIndiana says

Gary, guys like you said same things about Reagan and Soviet Union.

Ronald Reagan despised Donald Trump.

WookieMan says

Any proof of this? Not a fan of Trump, but please link some indicators that are showing a "meltdown" coming.

Stock market melted today. This may be the beginning. China not buying our excess bonds could cause rates to go up. Investors will rotate out of stocks, where you can lose your principle, to bonds where you cannot.

TrumpingTits says

As of 2019, the average Chinese worker will be older than the average American worker. And they have no social security and thanks to 1 Child Idiocy, fewer working age people to directly support their parents and grandparents. This is why they saved up so much...like the Japanese did. But once the demographic shift starts towards spending those savings, it will not stop until another generation passes at least.

Interesting take.

It's normal to keep a competitor down, or at least growing more slowly.

Gary Anderson says

Stock market melted today. This may be the beginning. China not buying our excess bonds could cause rates to go up. Investors will rotate out of stocks, where you can lose your principle, to bonds where you cannot.

China buys an insignificant portion of US Debt. This is a Pepe Escobar lie; I used to believe it until I arsed myself to look at the actual numbers involved. It's fractional.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

China buys an insignificant portion of US Debt. This is a Pepe Escobar lie; I used to believe it until I arsed myself to look at the actual numbers involved. It's fractional.

China only owns 5% of the total federal debt. Don't tell Gary. He will just blame the Jews.

Strategist says

China only owns 5% of the total federal debt. Don't tell Gary. He will just blame the Jews.

Here is my Jewish DNA, asswipe:

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + Morocco_Jews + North_African + Tuscan @ 1.283478
2 French_Basque + North_African + North_African_Jews + North_Italian @ 1.295459
3 Algeria + North_Italian + North_Italian + North_Italian @ 1.773581
4 North_African + North_Italian + North_Italian + North_Italian @ 1.865874
5 French_Basque + French_Basque + Morocco_N + Yemen_Jews @ 2.005640
6 French_Basque + North_African + North_African_Jews + Tuscan @ 2.092220
7 Algeria + French_Basque + French_Basque + Yemen_Jews @ 2.196563
8 French_Basque + French_Basque + Morocco_N + Saudis @ 2.307416
9 French_Basque + Morocco_Jews + North_African + North_Italian @ 2.344756
10 Bedouin + French_Basque + French_Basque + North_African @ 2.349786
11 Druze + French_Basque + Morocco_N + North_Italian @ 2.540855
12 French_Basque + French_Basque + North_African + Yemen_Jews @ 2.653674
13 Algeria + French_Basque + North_African_Jews + North_Italian @ 2.671610
14 Algeria + French_Basque + Morocco_Jews + Tuscan @ 2.674284
15 Morocco_N + North_Italian + North_Italian + Tuscan @ 2.679471
16 Morocco_N + North_Italian + North_Italian + North_Italian @ 2.799208
17 Algeria + North_Italian + North_Italian + Tuscan @ 2.911060
18 North_African + North_Italian + North_Italian + Tuscan @ 2.929565
19 Algeria + Bedouin + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 2.941865
20 Algeria + French_Basque + North_African_Jews + Tuscan @ 3.16300

So, Strategist, China and foreign nations own well over 40 percent of US debt. China is the largest foreign holder of US debt. It does not take much buying abstinence or selling to undermine the auctions and screw the collateral.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Interesting take.

It's normal to keep a competitor down, or at least growing more slowly.

Hmm. If the poor and middle class regard the 1%ers as competitors, is it acceptable for them to use government to keep them down, or at least slow their growth? Maybe this should be a separate thread.

Gary Anderson says

So, Strategist, China and foreign nations own well over 40 percent of US debt. China is the largest foreign holder of US debt. It does not take much buying abstinence or selling to undermine the auctions and screw the collateral.

Gary Anderson says

Strategist says

China only owns 5% of the total federal debt. Don't tell Gary. He will just blame the Jews.

Here is my Jewish DNA, asswipe:

Here is proof:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-who-owns-a-record-2121-trillion-of-us-debt-2018-08-21

Strategist says

Here is proof:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-who-owns-a-record-2121-trillion-of-us-debt-2018-08-21

It isn't the amount already owned. It is the world not participating in US auctions. If nations refuse to participate, interest rates could go up. It is like tariffs. If tariffs are applied, or even if they aren't, the world could simply decide to no longer buy America. Trump is doing damage. We have 4.4 percent of the world population. Asia has 4.5 billion people. 4.5 billion customers. We are screwed if we lose all those customers. Trump is putting our nation in danger, not to mention more countries will no longer trade in dollars, making the reserve currency less attractive.

And Strategist, that article you cited had this as well:

The Chinese government or Chinese investors likely own even more U.S. debt purchased through entities in other countries such as Hong Kong, Luxembourg or the Cayman Islands, all of which are havens for tax shelters.

Gary Anderson says

It isn't the amount already owned. It is the world not participating in US auctions. If nations refuse to participate, interest rates could go up. It is like tariffs. If tariffs are applied, or even if they aren't, the world could simply decide to no longer buy America. Trump is doing damage. We have 4.4 percent of the world population. Asia has 4.5 billion people. 4.5 billion customers. We are screwed if we lose all those customers. Trump is putting our nation in danger, not to mention more countries will no longer trade in dollars, making the reserve currency less attractive.

If they don't buy US bonds, they won't have many other places to park their foreign exchange. Think they will buy Venezuela bonds?
As far as trade is concerned, relax. These trade wars are temporary. The outcome will be more fair trading with China, our rival.

Gary Anderson says

FortWayneIndiana says

Gary, guys like you said same things about Reagan and Soviet Union.

Ronald Reagan despised Donald Trump.

You are dodging the question there Gary. Because what you are proposing is "Surrender", and Trump is proposing Reagans policy of "Peace Through Strength". And by now we all know what wins.

FortWayneIndiana says

You are dodging the question there Gary. Because what you are proposing is "Surrender", and Trump is proposing Reagans policy of "Peace Through Strength". And by now we all know what wins.

Wrong. As Asia profits and grows, we would, before we pissed them off, grow in our trade with them. You don't understand that per capita, we sell way more to China than China sells to us.

Gary Anderson says

Stock market melted today. This may be the beginning.

It's always the beginning of something. And the end is always coming. I'm not sure what a 3% daily swing in the overall stock market indicates a beginning to anything. Isn't October typically a shit month for stocks anyway?

Forgot to ask this. And "what" exactly is beginning as well?

It indicates a major hurricane hit Florida.
Duh

China needs the US. We don't need China. We can make our own crap, or buy cheap crap from someone else.

Quigley says

It indicates a major hurricane hit Florida.
Duh

I presume China made the hurricane to get back at Trump?

Gary Anderson says

It is dangerous and we could very well see the end of civilization

Hurricane warfare? Or as my son likes to say Hurrcano (Hurricane and Volcano combined - scary shit there).

Gary Anderson says

Wrong. As Asia profits and grows, we would, before we pissed them off, grow in our trade with them. You don't understand that per capita, we sell way more to China than China sells to us.

LOL. The reverse is just as true. Per capita we buy way more from China than China buys from us.
What matters is excessive and chronic trade deficits. It needs to be cut down, and the best way to cut it down is by China buying more from us.

Gary Anderson says

People said the same thing about Japan. We do fine with Japan. China is no different.

This is so wrong.

I spent nearly two decades working in Asia, and China and Japan are about as different politically, economically, and culturally as can be. It's obvious to me that you are lacking some knowledge about our trade relationship with either country if you think "China is no different" than Japan.

Aphroman says

God smited the USA for the sins of the Republicans

And Democrats. God does not discriminate against political parties. Only Allah does that.

Obama should have gotten pot legalized in the first 2 years of his term with Dem control. It will eventually happen. I have no doubt Trump would sign a legalization bill either. He does what's popular. Most American's at minimum have no problems with pot and most have used it. Problem is your/our congress critters.

The pot lobby is coming though. It's been there for sure, but with money starting to really flow, it's only a matter of time. For fucks sake you can take morning glory seeds and trip off your ass after a quick trip to the home depot. Those haven't been outlawed yet.

www.youtube.com/embed/aW1M62Zhffk