patrick.net

CBOEtrader says

MrMagic says

I almost pulled the trigger and bought a Level III Mal (around $17k - $20k),

You were gonna get a professionally trained dog?

Yeah, I had a specific need and plan and didn't think I could pull off the training myself, but my kids voted it down, thinking the professionally trained dog would eat my grandkids.....

In the end, I went the puppy route, so I could work with him and really understand him and bond with him. It's been a lot more time and work, but we've built a really tight bond, trust and relationship, and I know how hard I can push him. He's finally mature enough that I can do the advanced training with him in protection and other areas.

CBOEtrader says

MrMagic says

found out you have to work the hell out of them everyday, like for 3 hours.

Work? I do about an hour on the trails daily, maybe longer w the walk time. The dog can sprint the entire time. Not enough?

Nope, not even close. The Mals are extremely high energy, that's why they're chosen for police work. They definitely need multiple hours of hard play/work each day to burn the juice out of them. This could be the reason for that rescue, the previous owner couldn't handle that committment and had to give it up. They can be destructive if left with nothing to do and lots of pent up energy.

DASKAA says

I suppose I should listen to the crowd. Everyone hates the malinois idea as a tag along jogging guard dog.

More like "rescue Malinois" idea. One needs tons of experience when dealing with adoption of an adult dog with pretty much unknown history.

I'll second that, it's the "rescue" part with an unknown dog of that breed. There could be a whole bunch of underlying emotional issues.

MrMagic says

He's finally mature enough that I can do the advanced training with him in protection and other areas.

How many hours/day for houw many years? There's a reason why these lvl 3 dogs cost $30k. Thats really great though. I wish I could have that experience. If someone were to mentor me through that process theyd probably still charge me $30k for trainer fees. Did you watch a lot of youtube?

Quigley says

German Shepherd or Rotty. The first is just a great family/guard dog. The second is actually a great family dog too but not nearly as fast or agile as a shepherd. Rotties are a terror in a dog on dog fight tho, and I’d bet on one vs a German Shepherd. It would also have a solid chance against the Pit Bull the local drug dealer keeps.

Either will take out meth addicts no problem.

I love the Rotty's too. Magnificent creatures. You could have trouble getting homeowners insurance with Rotty's, Pit Bulls, and Dobermans.

MrMagic says

Put out traps for coyotes. Dog won’t stop em, they gang up on dogs.

That is true too. I heard the cunning Coyotes can lure a German Shepherd into a trap, and gang up on it. Not common though.
There is no 100% safety when it comes to Coyotes. Just get a German Shepherd and enjoy him for everything. My wife wants an Australian Shepherd or a Border Collie too. I tell her she can get any dog she wants, but we must always have at least one German Shepherd.

CBOEtrader says

How many hours/day for houw many years? There's a reason why these lvl 3 dogs cost $30k.

It takes between 1-1/2 to two years to get a Level III up to speed. That's why the cost is so high. That's a ton of time and effort. The money wasn't an issue for me because I wanted that level of training. The big part, after a lot of research and visits, was that I didn't feel 100% comfortable buying an attack trained dog but not growing up with it, and truly not knowing it's deep down temperament. It's wasn't like I was going to buy a family pet that would sleep next to the couch. These dogs are serious tools, and I felt the most important part was having a solid, personal connection if this dog was trained to protect us.

CBOEtrader says

If someone were to mentor me through that process theyd probably still charge me $30k for trainer fees.

It's not quite that much. I also looked at getting a Mal puppy or a Belgian Shepherd (actually my final choice was going to be a White Belgian Shepherd), working with him through all the basic obedience, then taking him to regular specialized training to get him up to Level III. That would have been between $4K - $5K. There was a guy in my area that did the training, but when I went to meet him, he turned out to be a real dick and headcase, so I couldn't see spending 6 months working with him.

CBOEtrader says

Did you watch a lot of youtube?

Ha... I've had dogs all my life, and had some really good ones. I've spent tons, Tons, TONS of time reading, watching videos, communicating with trainers, etc. this go around with my new pup, to make sure I do everything right. Learning about dog behavior and how they process information compared to humans has been really interesting... and really time consuming... it's a good thing I'm retired, so time isn't an issue.

We've already completed 5 different training classes covering all the standard obedience stuff, we did a Trick class just for fun, and I ran him through a Therapy Dog class, just to help get him prepared for the advanced stuff. He's earned two AKC certifications, and we're testing for two more in January.

We're in a beginner Tracking and Trailing class now leading him towards Search and Rescue. I'm on the county CERT Team, so I figure I can make him earn his keep by assisting in searches. Then, next month we start the Personal Protection training, which will run for multiple months.

My wife thinks I need my head examined for what I'm spending on the dog, but on the other hand, she's really impressed on how fast he's progressed. To me, he's my Special Project Dog, to her, he's the family pet.

I read everything I could about coyote attacks last few weeks.

The luring gang-up kills wherein coyotes kill large dogs mostly happens at night when the guard dogs are left outside. Reportedly they will have a female on heat or a hot-headed antagonize bait him away from the farmhouse where the pack awaits in the dark.

The coyotes will get together and strategize how to kill a new threat. I dont think they can pull this off if we are jogging down a trail.

Read about the coyote vs wolves war of Yellowstone. Well war isnt fair since wolves basically do all the killing. However, the odd thing is coyotes seem to thrive MORE when they are losing 30% of their population each year. Its like they become smarter and more adaptable by the generation. Apparently if they dont have wolves or humans killing 30%/yr, coyotes will start killing each other.

It's a bizarre natural selection way of survival, constant threat of death is good for them.

When the pack gets hungry they just attack. You should carry a gun too if you know coyote packs are near.

Hunger changes rules of engagement.

CBOEtrader says

I read everything I could about coyote attacks last few weeks.

The luring gang-up kills wherein coyotes kill large dogs mostly happens at night when the guard dogs are left outside. Reportedly they will have a female on heat or a hot-headed antagonize bait him away from the farmhouse where the pack awaits in the dark.

The coyotes will get together and strategize how to kill a new threat. I dont think they can pull this off if we are jogging down a trail.

Read about the coyote vs wolves war of Yellowstone. Well war isnt fair since wolves basically do all the killing. However, the odd thing is coyotes seem to thrive MORE when they are losing 30% of their population each year. Its like they become smarter and more adaptable by the generation. Apparently if they dont have wolves or humans killing 30%/yr, coyotes will start killing each other.

It's a bizarre natural selection way of survival, constant threat of death is good for them.

FortWayneIndiana says

When the pack gets hungry they just attack. You should carry a gun too if you know coyote packs are near.

Dammit. I know this is logical but fuck I dont really want to carry a gun while I play w my dog.

https://www.womensoutdoornews.com/2018/09/running-with-a-gun/ I guess this is a discussion smart women have.

Also, hilarious chick/gun ads on this page.

Big selling point for women's concealed carry: "Welcome to my l'il friend, the NutBlaster!"

Ceffer says

Big selling point for women's concealed carry: "Welcome to my l'il friend, the NutBlaster!"

NutBlaster, A new brand of intersectional firearms? It's just crazy enough to work.

CBOEtrader says

Dammit. I know this is logical but fuck I dont really want to carry a gun while I play w my dog.

There are a lot of different ways to CCW while being active. If you're truly serious about it, I can share some of them.

So, what dog are you going to get?

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/us/12dogs.html

LOL, check out this story where a rich capitalist in Minnesota has a 30k sqft house and protects it with 6 dogs, some of which cost upwards of $230k. Apparently this guy takes 2 dogs w him, and leaves 4 at home to guard his family.

Must be awesome to be that rich.

MrMagic says

So, what dog are you going to get?

I dunno. I may just do the gun thing and not get another dog. The last thing i want is to take responsibility for a large dog which I dont live up to in the right way. If these dogs arent exercised and trained to perfection theres so much room for disaster. I am still looking at large cross breeds, but your collective comments have helps steer me away from a Mal.

CBOEtrader says

I read everything I could about coyote attacks last few weeks.

Your real threats are Criminals, not Coyotes. Coyotes just want food, but some criminals will shoot you for fun.

Strategist says

CBOEtrader says

I read everything I could about coyote attacks last few weeks.

Your real threats are Criminals, not Coyotes. Coyotes just want food, but some criminals will shoot you for fun.

I saw a video wherein a farmer calculated it was cheaper to feed the coyotes than to try to kill them. He bought cheap beef parts daily and left them out for the coyotes to eat. Apparently he hasnt lost any livestock since and he reported the cost of meat being cheaper than killing coyotes and/or lost calves.

My problems w a gun vs a dog is that a dog would 1)be far more efficient in stopping a possible coyote attack 2) a dog will he home to chase off thieves when I'm not and 3) jogging w a gun sounds terrible.

CBOEtrader says

Strategist says

CBOEtrader says

I read everything I could about coyote attacks last few weeks.

Your real threats are Criminals, not Coyotes. Coyotes just want food, but some criminals will shoot you for fun.

I saw a video wherein a farmer calculated it was cheaper to feed the coyotes than to try to kill them. He bought cheap beef parts daily and left them out for the coyotes to eat. Apparently he hasnt lost any livestock since and he reported the cost of meat being cheaper than killing coyotes and/or lost calves.

My problems w a gun vs a dog is that a dog would 1)be far more efficient in stopping a possible coyote attack 2) a dog will he home to chase off thieves when I'm not and 3) jogging w a gun sounds terrible.

Honestly, if it's dangerous where you are going, I wouldn't jog there simply. Large packs of coyotes can and will attack, especially if they are the bigger kind, but I don't know where you are going, if that sort of thing happens there. We have coyotes near Los Angeles, but those only seem to eat dogs, and occasionally make attempts at children, not adults though. Just don't end up like a GrizzlyMan (there was a movie about him), he liked walking where bears were, and eventually luck wasn't on his side.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Imagine the cardiovascular benefits of jogging with M134!

Where can I get a doctor prescription for this? I want it!

Who the fuck is the state to argue with my doctor!

CBOEtrader says

The last thing i want is to take responsibility for a large dog which I dont live up to in the right way. If these dogs arent exercised and trained to perfection theres so much room for disaster.

Oh, come on... everyone wants a Fur Missile!

In the Bay Area I jog with pepper spray as I do most of my runs at night because that’s the only time that my schedule will permit.

I have it primarily for humans but have had some altercations of the years with large stray dogs too.

For coyotes and mountain lions, pepper spray that shoots 5-6ft against an animal that fast probably wouldn’t be very effective.

BayArea says

For coyotes and mountain lions, pepper spray that shoots 5-6ft against an animal that fast probably wouldn’t be very effective.

Why not? Should work, no? Actually the best idea Ive heard so far.

CBOEtrader says

i go trail running daily

I'd stop trail running and stay home where it's nice and comfortable.

You are better carrying a few pans with you to make noise.

CBOEtrader says

BayArea says

For coyotes and mountain lions, pepper spray that shoots 5-6ft against an animal that fast probably wouldn’t be very effective.

Why not? Should work, no? Actually the best idea Ive heard so far.

CBOEtrader says

BayArea says

For coyotes and mountain lions, pepper spray that shoots 5-6ft against an animal that fast probably wouldn’t be very effective.

Why not? Should work, no? Actually the best idea Ive heard so far.

Because unlike an agitated bum or robber, a mountain lion or coyote will leap at you at 4 times the distance that the pepper spray will shoot. Pepper spray is great for human altercations and large slow dogs however.

BayArea says

coyote will leap at you at 4 times the distance that the pepper spray will shoot.

The coyote wont attack me, I'm 235 pounds of pure American Baddass. My goal is to disperse the 1/2/or 3 coyotes that may attack my dog.

Interesting observation: my neighbors tell me they watched the coyotes kick a large male out of pack. Isn't that what they do to a retired alpha? Anyways there has been a lone, large coyote hanging out right by my place the last 3 days. My 40 pound dog actually went after him late last night, and the coyote responded in a playful game of chase. It was bizarre behavior. The coyote didnt show any signs of aggression. He ran around some trees waiting every 30 feet or so to make sure she was chasing him. This was odd enough that I'm not completely sure this new "coyote" isnt a lost pet.

I shared this story w a neighbor. The guy told me a similar story about his 80 pound dog literally play wrestling w a young coyote.

I get the feeling these coyotes have adapted their behavior to living in a city park.

BayArea says

For coyotes and mountain lions, pepper spray that shoots 5-6ft against an animal that fast probably wouldn’t be very effective.

That's a good idea, but he should move up to Bear Spray, since it can shoot up to 30 feet and is more lethal.

would anyone go for an $85k Zack?: Beautiful dog! wow.
www.youtube.com/embed/4dvLyY5x79s

MrMagic says

BayArea says

For coyotes and mountain lions, pepper spray that shoots 5-6ft against an animal that fast probably wouldn’t be very effective.

That's a good idea, but he should move up to Bear Spray, since it can shoot up to 30 feet and is more lethal.

Bear spray does shoot further and comes in bigger canisters than "human spray", but it is actually less potent than the latter. Weird but true.

DASKAA says

Bear spray does shoot further and comes in bigger canisters than "human spray", but it is actually less potent than the latter. Weird but true.

Depends who makes it and the formulation. Bear spray has the max 2.0%, where most law enforcement is between 1.3% and 2%.

CBOEtrader says

would anyone go for an $85k Zack?: Beautiful dog! wow.

Amazing dog, you can see the level of time and training it takes to get a dog up to that level. Plus, the selection process as pups is really important.

So, where do I send my check? Is he delivered by Fed-Ex?

MrMagic says

DASKAA says

Bear spray does shoot further and comes in bigger canisters than "human spray", but it is actually less potent than the latter. Weird but true.

Depends who makes it and the formulation. Bear spray has the max 2.0%, where most law enforcement is between 1.3% and 2%.

Self-defense sprays with 10% OC are very common. LE sprays probably have some kind of limit imposed on them, methinks.

DASKAA says

Self-defense sprays with 10% OC are very common. LE sprays probably have some kind of limit imposed on them, methinks.

Any idea who makes a 10% spray. I looked around and can't find it. I'd actually like to get it, hmmm, I wonder if it's allowed in my communist state??

Edit: never mind, I found it, and they won't ship it here.... damn...

They’ll ship it here.

I got a distributor there, he’ll ship anything.

MrMagic says

DASKAA says

Self-defense sprays with 10% OC are very common. LE sprays probably have some kind of limit imposed on them, methinks.

Any idea who makes a 10% spray. I looked around and can't find it. I'd actually like to get it, hmmm, I wonder if it's allowed in my communist state??

Edit: never mind, I found it, and they won't ship it here.... damn...

MrMagic says

DASKAA says

Self-defense sprays with 10% OC are very common. LE sprays probably have some kind of limit imposed on them, methinks.

Any idea who makes a 10% spray. I looked around and can't find it. I'd actually like to get it, hmmm, I wonder if it's allowed in my communist state??

Edit: never mind, I found it, and they won't ship it here.... damn...

Saber Defense, iirc.

Get a Boerboel:

https://www.newsweek.com/wisconsin-new-years-eve-drunk-dog-1276562

;)