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174
Strategist
2019 Jan 2, 9:01pm
Strategist
2019 Jan 2, 9:01pm
SunnyvaleCA says
And yet car companies like VW have budgeted $50 billion+ to develop electric cars. All car companies are gearing up to prevent Tesla from eating their lunch.
If there were money to be made in the electric car business at this point in time, the big car companies would be heavily into electric cars. The fact is that no company at all has made profits in electric cars.
And yet car companies like VW have budgeted $50 billion+ to develop electric cars. All car companies are gearing up to prevent Tesla from eating their lunch.
175
Strategist
2019 Jan 2, 9:07pm
Strategist
2019 Jan 2, 9:07pm
MrMagic says
And yet it became the 2nd company in history to be worth$1 trillion. Amazon's plans were never to make quick profits. Their goal was market share. It's a wise strategy that made Jeff Bezos the richest man on the planet.
How is is Sears worth?
kt1652 saysRight, did Amazon make any profit for 10 years until they took over the world.
Amazon is still hardly making any profit after all that time, and it's been like 14 years. They make like a 2% - 3% net profit and are still posting losses overseas. Not sure if you should use them as a benchmark. Don't confuse sales dollars as making money.
And yet it became the 2nd company in history to be worth$1 trillion. Amazon's plans were never to make quick profits. Their goal was market share. It's a wise strategy that made Jeff Bezos the richest man on the planet.
How is is Sears worth?
176
Strategist
2019 Jan 2, 9:13pm
Strategist
2019 Jan 2, 9:13pm
MrMagic says
All car companies lose their credits after 200,000sales in electric cars. Tesla being the first, only reveals it's incredible success.
I don't know where Tesla shares will go in the future, but I do know where Tesla sales will be. High High and Higher.
Tesla sales will take an even bigger hit with the tax credits going away. Doesn't anyone remember these two:
All car companies lose their credits after 200,000sales in electric cars. Tesla being the first, only reveals it's incredible success.
I don't know where Tesla shares will go in the future, but I do know where Tesla sales will be. High High and Higher.
177
MrMagic
2019 Jan 2, 9:48pm
MrMagic
2019 Jan 2, 9:48pm
Strategist says
Wow, you really do drink the kool-aid, don't you.
I don't know where Tesla shares will go in the future, but I do know where Tesla sales will be. High High and Higher.
Wow, you really do drink the kool-aid, don't you.
178
Rin
2019 Jan 2, 10:14pm
Rin
2019 Jan 2, 10:14pm
Elon's coup will be SpaceX, with it's near monopoly on satellite launches for the next decade or two.
Aside from that, ventures like Tesla are very if-fy. And if you look at investing, then surely, companies which don't give dividends aren't places to park anymore than a sliver of one's portfolio.
Even a simple investment in R J Reynolds yielded one a huge return by reinvesting dividends. And let's be honest, cigarettes have been around for a lot longer than any of us on this earth.
Aside from that, ventures like Tesla are very if-fy. And if you look at investing, then surely, companies which don't give dividends aren't places to park anymore than a sliver of one's portfolio.
Even a simple investment in R J Reynolds yielded one a huge return by reinvesting dividends. And let's be honest, cigarettes have been around for a lot longer than any of us on this earth.
Reynolds America (RAI) prior to the 2008 crisis, date range of Jan 2006 to Jan 2014 ...
179
Blue
2019 Jan 2, 10:18pm
Currently its a Luxury car play and makes no profits in the near future. I'd see some prospects if it move out from Fremont, CA to more price competitive manufacturing base (unless state is already compensating) or come with some sort of self driving bots technology to make vertical business models. Just to be a passenger car play has limited scope to make profits as the competition gearing up.
181
Strategist
2019 Jan 3, 10:11am
Strategist
2019 Jan 3, 10:11am
Blue says
California is a rotten place for manufacturing. Stupid politicians in Sacramento think it's a bad idea to encourage business. They would rather encourage illegals, welfare queens, and bums. Nevada is much better.
Tesla will soon be manufacturing semi's, trucks, and whatever there is demand for.
Currently its a Luxury car play and makes no profits in the near future. I'd see some prospects if it move out from Fremont, CA to more price competitive manufacturing base (unless state is already compensating) or come with some sort of self driving bots technology to make vertical business models. Just to be a passenger car play has limited scope to make profits as the competition gearing up.
California is a rotten place for manufacturing. Stupid politicians in Sacramento think it's a bad idea to encourage business. They would rather encourage illegals, welfare queens, and bums. Nevada is much better.
Tesla will soon be manufacturing semi's, trucks, and whatever there is demand for.
182
Strategist
2019 Jan 3, 10:13am
Strategist
2019 Jan 3, 10:13am
MrMagic says
It was kool-aid? I thought it was wine. Damn Tesla.
Strategist saysI don't know where Tesla shares will go in the future, but I do know where Tesla sales will be. High High and Higher.
Wow, you really do drink the kool-aid, don't you.
It was kool-aid? I thought it was wine. Damn Tesla.
183
theoakman
2019 Jan 3, 10:50am
Rin says
Speaking of cigarettes, 1 out of 5 kids admits to regularly vaping. I teach high school right now, it's more than that. It's even a problem in the middle school. What's crazy is they are inhaling the equivalent of 4 packs of cigarettes in nicotine per day. Initial studies have shown that vaping at a young age has led to a likelihood to move onto cigarettes. Moreover, they just released a survey and found that 37% of kids didn't even realize they were inhaling nicotine. Anything nicotine related is slated to be a booming business.
10 years ago, I figured we wiped teen nicotine abuse nearly off the map. It's back and bigger than it ever was.
Elon's coup will be SpaceX, with it's near monopoly on satellite launches for the next decade or two.
Aside from that, ventures like Tesla are very if-fy. And if you look at investing, then surely, companies which don't give dividends aren't places to park anymore than a sliver of one's portfolio.
Even a simple investment in R J Reynolds yielded one a huge return by reinvesting dividends. And let's be honest, cigarettes have been around for a lot longer than any of us on this earth.Reynolds America (RAI) prior to the 2008 crisis, date range of Jan 2006 to Jan 2014 ...
Speaking of cigarettes, 1 out of 5 kids admits to regularly vaping. I teach high school right now, it's more than that. It's even a problem in the middle school. What's crazy is they are inhaling the equivalent of 4 packs of cigarettes in nicotine per day. Initial studies have shown that vaping at a young age has led to a likelihood to move onto cigarettes. Moreover, they just released a survey and found that 37% of kids didn't even realize they were inhaling nicotine. Anything nicotine related is slated to be a booming business.
10 years ago, I figured we wiped teen nicotine abuse nearly off the map. It's back and bigger than it ever was.
184
SunnyvaleCA
2019 Jan 3, 11:08am
DASKAA says
Actually, Amazon's profits are from AWS, not online retail.
Amazon's online retail, while getting a first-mover advantage, has several Achilles heals:
• I can browse their online offerings and read the reviews, but then purchase elsewhere at a lower price.
• While previously having an advantage by easily allowing sales tax evasion, here in California (and elsewhere) Amazon now collects sales tax. Their tax evasion benefit is now a tax evasion disadvantage, as it's now only OTHER online sites that offer the feature.
• Much like eBay, they suffer from fraudulent goods and fraudulent 3rd party sellers. I only buy things sold directly by Amazon itself. Amazon can't leverage 3rd party sellers for its own expansion and profits.
Amazon's online retail is really just a convenience. Convenience in one-stop shopping, one-stop payment, and (often) very fast delivery. If they economy crashes and people start tightening their spending habits, I expect Amazon's online retail will not even keep its current break-even (lack of) profits.
Substitute Tesla for Amazon, electric cars for online retail and legacy car companies for brick-and-mortar retail giants and you basically have the case against AMZN circa 2000-2002
Actually, Amazon's profits are from AWS, not online retail.
Amazon's online retail, while getting a first-mover advantage, has several Achilles heals:
• I can browse their online offerings and read the reviews, but then purchase elsewhere at a lower price.
• While previously having an advantage by easily allowing sales tax evasion, here in California (and elsewhere) Amazon now collects sales tax. Their tax evasion benefit is now a tax evasion disadvantage, as it's now only OTHER online sites that offer the feature.
• Much like eBay, they suffer from fraudulent goods and fraudulent 3rd party sellers. I only buy things sold directly by Amazon itself. Amazon can't leverage 3rd party sellers for its own expansion and profits.
Amazon's online retail is really just a convenience. Convenience in one-stop shopping, one-stop payment, and (often) very fast delivery. If they economy crashes and people start tightening their spending habits, I expect Amazon's online retail will not even keep its current break-even (lack of) profits.
185
SunnyvaleCA
2019 Jan 3, 11:11am
DASKAA says
Do you realize that Benz, Daimler, Porsche, and many others had hybrid-electric cars well before Musk was even born?
Where's Tesla's enormous patent portfolio? They have nothing to defend themselves if rivals feel that electrics will suddenly become profitable.
Substitute Tesla for Amazon, electric cars for online retail and legacy car companies for brick-and-mortar retail giants
Do you realize that Benz, Daimler, Porsche, and many others had hybrid-electric cars well before Musk was even born?
Where's Tesla's enormous patent portfolio? They have nothing to defend themselves if rivals feel that electrics will suddenly become profitable.
186
RWSGFY
2019 Jan 3, 11:37am
RWSGFY
2019 Jan 3, 11:37am
SunnyvaleCA says
Um, no, they didn't. First hybrid was Prius and Mask was already adult and millionaire. First German hybrid didn't appear till 2010 iirc. And hybrid-electric is not the same as full-electric. It's a cludge at best. Besides, if these guys are ready to eat Elon's lunch, why BMW's electric offers suck so much and the rest don't have anything at all (well Daimler did have a fully-electric offering based on .... drumroll... Tesla drivetrain).
DASKAA saysSubstitute Tesla for Amazon, electric cars for online retail and legacy car companies for brick-and-mortar retail giants
Do you realize that Benz, Daimler, Porsche, and many others had hybrid-electric cars well before Musk was even born?
Um, no, they didn't. First hybrid was Prius and Mask was already adult and millionaire. First German hybrid didn't appear till 2010 iirc. And hybrid-electric is not the same as full-electric. It's a cludge at best. Besides, if these guys are ready to eat Elon's lunch, why BMW's electric offers suck so much and the rest don't have anything at all (well Daimler did have a fully-electric offering based on .... drumroll... Tesla drivetrain).
187
socal2
2019 Jan 3, 11:52am
It is my understanding that the battery is the most expensive part of the EV car. It is also the biggest bottleneck in terms of supply chain.
If Musk gets his battery giga-factory going as planned, I'd think Tesla will have a massive advantage compared to the other big auto-makers for the next several years.
If Musk gets his battery giga-factory going as planned, I'd think Tesla will have a massive advantage compared to the other big auto-makers for the next several years.
188
zzyzzx
2019 Jan 3, 11:55am
zzyzzx
2019 Jan 3, 11:55am
socal2 says
Tesla will end up selling the batteries to other automakers. Tesla cares are mostly a proof of concept that they might abandon at some point.
If Musk gets his battery giga-factory going as planned, I'd think Tesla will have a massive advantage compared to the other big auto-makers for the next several years.
Tesla will end up selling the batteries to other automakers. Tesla cares are mostly a proof of concept that they might abandon at some point.
189
MrMagic
2019 Jan 4, 9:03am
MrMagic
2019 Jan 4, 9:03am
Just two trading days into the new year, shares of Tesla were already down nearly 10 percent. According to Vertical Research Group’s Gordon Johnson, this is only the tip of the iceberg for what’s to come.
Johnson has an $88 year-end price target on the stock, which means he believes the automaker will lose 70 percent of its value in the coming year. For perspective, the average analyst price target for the stock is $334, according to FactSet.
“If you take the Q3 numbers and you annualize them, I think Q3 is going to be the high-water mark for Tesla. I don’t think they’re ever going to reach that level of earnings again,” he said Thursday on CNBC’s “Trading Nation.” “If you look at what the stock’s trading at, you’re talking about like you know near a 100 times multiple on those earnings, and the company is clearly not growing at that level.”
Because Tesla sells its cars directly to consumers rather than going through the traditional dealership approach, Johnson argues there could be some discrepancies in how its inventory is being reported. He also believes there will be massive cancellations after the government subsidy for electric vehicles was slashed in half.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/03/wall-streets-biggest-tesla-bear-says-stock-will-tank-70-percent-in-2019.html
Johnson has an $88 year-end price target on the stock, which means he believes the automaker will lose 70 percent of its value in the coming year. For perspective, the average analyst price target for the stock is $334, according to FactSet.
“If you take the Q3 numbers and you annualize them, I think Q3 is going to be the high-water mark for Tesla. I don’t think they’re ever going to reach that level of earnings again,” he said Thursday on CNBC’s “Trading Nation.” “If you look at what the stock’s trading at, you’re talking about like you know near a 100 times multiple on those earnings, and the company is clearly not growing at that level.”
Because Tesla sells its cars directly to consumers rather than going through the traditional dealership approach, Johnson argues there could be some discrepancies in how its inventory is being reported. He also believes there will be massive cancellations after the government subsidy for electric vehicles was slashed in half.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/03/wall-streets-biggest-tesla-bear-says-stock-will-tank-70-percent-in-2019.html
190
lostand confused
2019 Jan 4, 9:49am
lostand confused
2019 Jan 4, 9:49am
TSLA is way too volatile. It was 300 then dropped to 200s then went up to 370 os so then again dropped. Market is crazy right now.
191
kt1652
2019 Jan 4, 9:51am
kt1652
2019 Jan 4, 9:51am
Tesla is our only dog in this fight. GM is like my addict friend who will mortgage the future for a quick fix. Chrysler – FIAT, enough said. Ford, they will ek out an existence with F150. The fall back plan is government bail out.
Tesla is being attacked on all fronts. The luxury cars will put up a fight. The KorChinPans are going to fight them for battery dominance. They have to invest huge $ in China, probably building the Y there. The last thing they need is to hemorrhage cash flow. They have no choice, it is the biggest EV market. Now they are going to fight the BYDs on their own turf. It's only hope is to innovate out of it.
What I am certain of, despite what each Chinese EV makers are saying publicly. “Tesla is in a different market segment than us, we can coexist.” BS. Whoever wins the low and mid end, game over.
Tesla is being attacked on all fronts. The luxury cars will put up a fight. The KorChinPans are going to fight them for battery dominance. They have to invest huge $ in China, probably building the Y there. The last thing they need is to hemorrhage cash flow. They have no choice, it is the biggest EV market. Now they are going to fight the BYDs on their own turf. It's only hope is to innovate out of it.
What I am certain of, despite what each Chinese EV makers are saying publicly. “Tesla is in a different market segment than us, we can coexist.” BS. Whoever wins the low and mid end, game over.
192
Eman
2019 Jan 4, 10:35am
Eman
2019 Jan 4, 10:35am
zzyzzx says
This is a good prank to pull on the kids when they're in the car. You move it to their seat and let it rip. ;-)
This is a good prank to pull on the kids when they're in the car. You move it to their seat and let it rip. ;-)
193
Eman
2019 Jan 4, 10:37am
Eman
2019 Jan 4, 10:37am
kt1652 says
It's ironic to see our own folks wanting our own American company to fail especially the loser short sellers on seeking alpha. They couldn't invent or create anything positive to contribute to the society. They want to benefit based on someone else's failure. What a bunch of losers.
Tesla is our only dog in this fight. GM is like my addict friend who will mortgage the future for a quick fix. Chrysler – FIAT, enough said. Ford, they will ek out an existence with F150. The fall back plan is government bail out.
Tesla is being attacked on all fronts. The luxury cars will put up a fight. The KorChinPans are going to fight them for battery dominance. They have to invest huge $ in China, probably building the Y there. The last thing they need is to hemorrhage cash flow. They have no choice, it is the biggest EV market. Now they are going to fight the BYDs on their own turf. It's only hope is to innovate out of it.
What I am certain of, despite what each Chinese EV makers are saying publicly. “Tesla is in a different market segment than us, we can coexist.” BS. Whoever wins the low and mid end, game over.
It's ironic to see our own folks wanting our own American company to fail especially the loser short sellers on seeking alpha. They couldn't invent or create anything positive to contribute to the society. They want to benefit based on someone else's failure. What a bunch of losers.
194
SunnyvaleCA
2019 Jan 4, 11:10am
DASKAA says
Starting in 1900... here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche
http://www.paicehybrid.com/tag/1906-mercedes-mixte/
And both cars were also available as electric only.
SunnyvaleCA saysDASKAA saysSubstitute Tesla for Amazon, electric cars for online retail and legacy car companies for brick-and-mortar retail giants
Do you realize that Benz, Daimler, Porsche, and many others had hybrid-electric cars well before Musk was even born?
Um, no, they didn't. First hybrid was Prius and Mask was already adult and millionaire. First German hybrid didn't appear till 2010 iirc. And hybrid-electric is not the same as full-electric. It's a cludge at best. Besides, if these guys are ready to eat Elon's lunch, why BMW's electric offers suck so much and the rest don't have anything at all (well Daimler did have a fully-electric offering based on .... drumroll... Tesla drivetrain).
Starting in 1900... here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche
http://www.paicehybrid.com/tag/1906-mercedes-mixte/
And both cars were also available as electric only.
195
RWSGFY
2019 Jan 4, 11:25am
RWSGFY
2019 Jan 4, 11:25am
SunnyvaleCA says
Amusing, but irrelevant, factoid.
DASKAA saysSunnyvaleCA saysDASKAA saysSubstitute Tesla for Amazon, electric cars for online retail and legacy car companies for brick-and-mortar retail giants
Do you realize that Benz, Daimler, Porsche, and many others had hybrid-electric cars well before Musk was even born?
Um, no, they didn't. First hybrid was Prius and Mask was already adult and millionaire. First German hybrid didn't appear till 2010 iirc. And hybrid-electric is not the same as full-electric. It's a cludge at best. Besides, if these guys are ready to eat Elon's lunch, why BMW's electric offers suck so much and the rest don't have anything at all (well Daimler did have a fully-electric offering based on .... drumroll... Tesla drivetrain).
Starting in 19...
Amusing, but irrelevant, factoid.
196
MrMagic
2019 Jan 18, 8:11am
MrMagic
2019 Jan 18, 8:11am
Tesla cuts 7% of its workforce, and Elon Musk sees a ‘very difficult’ road ahead.
Tesla is cutting its full-time staff headcount by about 7 percent, as it ramps up production of its Model 3 sedans, CEO Elon Musk said Friday.
In an email to employees, Musk said the company faces a “very difficult” road ahead in its long-term goal to sell affordable renewable energy products, noting the company is younger than other players in the industry.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/tesla-to-cut-its-workforce-by-around-7-percent.html
Tesla is cutting its full-time staff headcount by about 7 percent, as it ramps up production of its Model 3 sedans, CEO Elon Musk said Friday.
In an email to employees, Musk said the company faces a “very difficult” road ahead in its long-term goal to sell affordable renewable energy products, noting the company is younger than other players in the industry.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/tesla-to-cut-its-workforce-by-around-7-percent.html
197
MrMagic
2019 Jan 18, 8:14am
MrMagic
2019 Jan 18, 8:14am
Electric-car maker Tesla Inc. will cut approximately 7% of its full-time workforce and warned that Q4 profit won’t meet the performance of Q3, CEO Elon Musk said in an update Friday.
Musk said Tesla TSLA, -9.04% faces a tough challenge of “making our cars, batteries and solar products cost-competitive with fossil fuels,” and that the company’s products are “still too expensive for most people,” according to the update on the company’s blog that was emailed to all employees.
The job cuts follow a 9% staff reduction in June.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-warns-on-q4-profit-cutting-jobs-to-pull-down-model-3-price-2019-01-18
Musk said Tesla TSLA, -9.04% faces a tough challenge of “making our cars, batteries and solar products cost-competitive with fossil fuels,” and that the company’s products are “still too expensive for most people,” according to the update on the company’s blog that was emailed to all employees.
The job cuts follow a 9% staff reduction in June.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-warns-on-q4-profit-cutting-jobs-to-pull-down-model-3-price-2019-01-18
198
MrMagic
2019 Jan 18, 8:16am
MrMagic
2019 Jan 18, 8:16am
Elon Musk kills the Tesla referral program, suggests it hurt margins.
Tesla Inc. TSLA, -9.20% Chief Executive Elon Musk announced on Twitter late Wednesday the end of the Silicon Valley auto maker's referral program, which involved awards such as a $1,000 credit, Tesla merchandise and products, and months worth of free Tesla's "supercharging" over several iterations. The program officially ends Feb. 1, Musk said. In response to questions tweeted at him, Musk said there were no plans to create another referral program, and suggested it was hurting margins. The program added "too much cost to the cars, especially Model 3," Musk said.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon-musk-kills-the-tesla-referral-program-suggests-it-hurt-margins-2019-01-17
Tesla Inc. TSLA, -9.20% Chief Executive Elon Musk announced on Twitter late Wednesday the end of the Silicon Valley auto maker's referral program, which involved awards such as a $1,000 credit, Tesla merchandise and products, and months worth of free Tesla's "supercharging" over several iterations. The program officially ends Feb. 1, Musk said. In response to questions tweeted at him, Musk said there were no plans to create another referral program, and suggested it was hurting margins. The program added "too much cost to the cars, especially Model 3," Musk said.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon-musk-kills-the-tesla-referral-program-suggests-it-hurt-margins-2019-01-17
199
MrMagic
2019 Jan 18, 8:19am
MrMagic
2019 Jan 18, 8:19am
Musk announced the job cuts, the first since June, in a memo to employees. Musk is hoping to sell the Model 3 at $35,000. Late last year he debuted a "low-cost" Model 3 with fewer advanced features that debuted with a price tag of just $45,000). He added that the company had "no choice" but to reduce its work force after it increased by 30% last year. The company will retain "only the most critical" temporary workers as it seeks to find a way to lower its head count and ramp up production at the same time.
(Yes, that always helps companies, sell at a lower price, that always makes for better profits!! He'll just make it up in VOLUME!!!!!) (Plus, everyone knows you get better productivity from LESS staff).
They also follow a lowering of Tesla's Q4 profit outlook, according to the Street (this comes after the company earned a surprise profit in Q3, albeit a paper profit that was contingent on the company using "every trick in the book").
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-18/tesla-lowers-q4-profit-guidance-unveils-plans-cut-7-work-force-stock-slides
(Yes, that always helps companies, sell at a lower price, that always makes for better profits!! He'll just make it up in VOLUME!!!!!) (Plus, everyone knows you get better productivity from LESS staff).
They also follow a lowering of Tesla's Q4 profit outlook, according to the Street (this comes after the company earned a surprise profit in Q3, albeit a paper profit that was contingent on the company using "every trick in the book").
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-18/tesla-lowers-q4-profit-guidance-unveils-plans-cut-7-work-force-stock-slides
202
mell
2019 Jan 18, 9:25am
Told ya so. Books were "legally" cooked as much as possible for the recent "surprise profit" quarter. Let's wait for next q numbers.
203
Rin
2019 Jan 18, 10:29am
Rin
2019 Jan 18, 10:29am
zzyzzx says
Yes, and that's a sustainable business model as well.
Tesla will end up selling the batteries to other automakers. Tesla cares are mostly a proof of concept that they might abandon at some point.
Yes, and that's a sustainable business model as well.
204
MrMagic
2019 Jan 18, 12:35pm
MrMagic
2019 Jan 18, 12:35pm
Tesla has $920 million in debt that’s coming due — and it could wipe out a large chunk of the company’s cash.
Tesla has a billion dollar debt coming due, and it could wipe out nearly a third of the company’s cash if the stock price doesn’t improve.
About $920 million in convertible senior notes expires on March 1 at a conversion price of $359.87 per share. But Tesla’s stock hasn’t traded above $359 for weeks. If the shares are about $359.87, then Tesla’s debt converts into Tesla shares. If not, Tesla will have to pay the debt in cash.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/tesla-has-920-million-in-debt-thats-coming-due-could-affect-cash.html
Hey, but look at that accelleration.....
Anyone know how well a Tesla does as a paperweight?
Tesla has a billion dollar debt coming due, and it could wipe out nearly a third of the company’s cash if the stock price doesn’t improve.
About $920 million in convertible senior notes expires on March 1 at a conversion price of $359.87 per share. But Tesla’s stock hasn’t traded above $359 for weeks. If the shares are about $359.87, then Tesla’s debt converts into Tesla shares. If not, Tesla will have to pay the debt in cash.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/tesla-has-920-million-in-debt-thats-coming-due-could-affect-cash.html
Hey, but look at that accelleration.....
Anyone know how well a Tesla does as a paperweight?
208
mell
2019 Jan 18, 2:29pm
DASKAA says
From a stock trading "investment" view TSLA was a big success, esp. for early adopters of its stock, no question. However the market gets more wrong then people tend to think, and as a company success has been modest. They cranked out pretty good cars, luxury EVs, but for a very high price and debt. Doubtful they can sustain, that's why the price is correcting now. Let's wait til next earnings.
From a stock trading "investment" view TSLA was a big success, esp. for early adopters of its stock, no question. However the market gets more wrong then people tend to think, and as a company success has been modest. They cranked out pretty good cars, luxury EVs, but for a very high price and debt. Doubtful they can sustain, that's why the price is correcting now. Let's wait til next earnings.
209
clambo
2019 Jan 18, 3:21pm
I was picking up one thing at the Palm Beach Gardens, FL Whole Foods and outside there were guys with a Tesla offering rides or etc.
Funny; if that car were so popular they wouldn't be putting them in parking lots and paying guys to get people to check them out.
Funny; if that car were so popular they wouldn't be putting them in parking lots and paying guys to get people to check them out.
210
SunnyvaleCA
2019 Jan 19, 1:24am
DASKAA says
"First German hybrid didn't appear till 2010 iirc." I can understand you not remembering correctly. You weren't born yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche
http://www.paicehybrid.com/tag/1906-mercedes-mixte/
The point of the links above above is that all-electric cars and hybrid-electric cars have been around for a century. (Actually, there were all-electric cars 150 years ago.) The battery technology sure has increased a lot, but that's not a Tesla invention either.
You're right that "hybrid-electric is not the same as full-electric." For starters, only one of those systems has been economically successful. Maybe battery tech will improve enough to make full electrics economically successful too. If that happens, then there's still the question of why Tesla's technology and brand name will outpace that of established automakers. Do you really think the established automakers are just sitting back and watching as Tesla blazes into a new market? Do you really think the engineers that pioneered the synergy drive and other systems can't seem to grasp the concepts needed for a simpler battery-only system?
I will agree with you that the BMW i3 is ugly as sin. Also, cheap electric cars are merely "compliance cars" and not desirable like a Tesla. But the ugly and the cheap are at least not losing a lot of money!
Ultimately: If there is an economically viable market, the established companies are going to jump into it. I think the established companies have a lot of other advantages that Tesla won't quickly replicate.
SunnyvaleCA saysDASKAA saysSunnyvaleCA saysDASKAA saysSubstitute Tesla for Amazon, electric cars for online retail and legacy car companies for brick-and-mortar retail giants
Do you realize that Benz, Daimler, Porsche, and many others had hybrid-electric cars well before Musk was even born?
Um, no, they didn't. First hybrid was Prius and Mask was already adult and millionaire. First German hybrid didn't appear till 2010 iirc. And hybrid-electric is not the same as full-electric. It's a cludge at best. Besides, if these guys are ready to eat Elon's lunch, why BMW's electric offers suck so much and the rest don't have anything at all (well Daimler did have a fully-elect...
"First German hybrid didn't appear till 2010 iirc." I can understand you not remembering correctly. You weren't born yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche
http://www.paicehybrid.com/tag/1906-mercedes-mixte/
The point of the links above above is that all-electric cars and hybrid-electric cars have been around for a century. (Actually, there were all-electric cars 150 years ago.) The battery technology sure has increased a lot, but that's not a Tesla invention either.
You're right that "hybrid-electric is not the same as full-electric." For starters, only one of those systems has been economically successful. Maybe battery tech will improve enough to make full electrics economically successful too. If that happens, then there's still the question of why Tesla's technology and brand name will outpace that of established automakers. Do you really think the established automakers are just sitting back and watching as Tesla blazes into a new market? Do you really think the engineers that pioneered the synergy drive and other systems can't seem to grasp the concepts needed for a simpler battery-only system?
I will agree with you that the BMW i3 is ugly as sin. Also, cheap electric cars are merely "compliance cars" and not desirable like a Tesla. But the ugly and the cheap are at least not losing a lot of money!
Ultimately: If there is an economically viable market, the established companies are going to jump into it. I think the established companies have a lot of other advantages that Tesla won't quickly replicate.
211
SunnyvaleCA
2019 Jan 19, 1:57am
MrMagic says
Poorly, I suppose. However, I know from first-hand observation that the Model X can make a great fire starter. I actually saw the aftermath of the Highway 101/85 crash last year from the vantage point of the 101 northbound on ramp from 85 to 101.
Anyone know how well a Tesla does as a paperweight?
Poorly, I suppose. However, I know from first-hand observation that the Model X can make a great fire starter. I actually saw the aftermath of the Highway 101/85 crash last year from the vantage point of the 101 northbound on ramp from 85 to 101.
212
Rin
2019 Jan 19, 3:26am
Rin
2019 Jan 19, 3:26am
Ppl, I don't get it, this thread is about investments, not about an individual's favorite new car.
When the Boston Celtics were publicly traded, myself and others I knew, who were fans of Larry Bird since birth, didn't buy into them. You can even say that all of the greater Boston area was the Society of Red Auerbach, since pretty much, 90+% of the population were Celts fans.
And here's why ... they were poorly run & were not generating enough income until the company was taken private by new owners and then, between a new GM & President, they re-built and finally started returning to the playoffs, generating revenue (tickets & advertisements), and even got a championship in 2008. Likewise, Tesla needs to go through a similar transformation, for them to become an investable company.
When the Boston Celtics were publicly traded, myself and others I knew, who were fans of Larry Bird since birth, didn't buy into them. You can even say that all of the greater Boston area was the Society of Red Auerbach, since pretty much, 90+% of the population were Celts fans.
And here's why ... they were poorly run & were not generating enough income until the company was taken private by new owners and then, between a new GM & President, they re-built and finally started returning to the playoffs, generating revenue (tickets & advertisements), and even got a championship in 2008. Likewise, Tesla needs to go through a similar transformation, for them to become an investable company.
213
RWSGFY
2019 Jan 19, 6:39am
RWSGFY
2019 Jan 19, 6:39am
SunnyvaleCA says
Nice straw man. Nobody is saying battery in itself was "Tesla invention". And I'm perfectly aware of literally dozens of models of American electric cars sold at the turn on 20 century. It's all as irrelevant to today as Porsche "hybrid" of the same time.
As modern technology stands Tesla is the leader in the field of electric cars. It's simply a fact. It might change next year or next decade but it's a fact now.
"First German hybrid didn't appear till 2010 iirc." I can understand you not remembering correctly. You weren't born yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche
http://www.paicehybrid.com/tag/1906-mercedes-mixte/
The point of the links above above is that all-electric cars and hybrid-electric cars have been around for a century. (Actually, there were all-electric cars 150 years ago.) The battery technology sure has increased a lot, but that's not a Tesla invention either
Nice straw man. Nobody is saying battery in itself was "Tesla invention". And I'm perfectly aware of literally dozens of models of American electric cars sold at the turn on 20 century. It's all as irrelevant to today as Porsche "hybrid" of the same time.
As modern technology stands Tesla is the leader in the field of electric cars. It's simply a fact. It might change next year or next decade but it's a fact now.
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It's over $300, with a loss of $10/share, but revenue just keeps going up. Hard to figure out what a fair price is since it doesn't make money yet.
How would you come up with a fair price per share?