patrick.net

You have no idea what you talking about.

Gender is decided by chromosomes. Not genetic abnormalities or presence of penis or lack there of. As a liberal you can leave your balls and yet you’ll still be a man. You can be in accident that mutilates your privates and it won’t change your gender. Xx or xy is the only factor. And your stats are wrong. That’s a fag propaganda website, hence biased and has no facts.

curious2 says

FortWayneIndiana says

percent

Any sources for that percentage? I have seen significantly higher numbers. 1% works out to more than three million Americans, and even the lowest percentages I've seen add up to millions of people worldwide. Pretending they don't exist is absurd, and a lie from Patrick.

FortWayneIndiana says

Xx or xy

World Health Organization:

"Clearly, there are not only females who are XX and males who are XY, but rather, there is a range of chromosome complements, hormone balances, and phenotypic variations that determine sex... a single sex chromosome (45X or 45Y) (sex monosomies) and some with three or more sex chromosomes (47XXX, 47XYY or 47XXY, etc.) (sex polysomies)...some males are born 46XX...some females are also born 46XY... There are a number of cultures, for example, in which greater gender diversity exists and sex and gender are not always neatly divided along binary lines such as male and female or homosexual and heterosexual. The Berdache in North America, the fa’afafine (Samoan for “the way of a woman”) in the Pacific, and the kathoey in Thailand are all examples of different gender categories that differ from the traditional Western division of people into males and females."

Looks like some people have no coding to do today or insurance products to schlep...wasting the Governments money as well as that of Private Enterprise

curious2 says

@Patrick, you persist in denying the existence of intersex persons, who are in fact born that way. Many can and do reproduce as adults.

Define many. .0000001% of the population isnt many. That's a freakish medical anomaly.

It is absolutely amazing how many people have time at work to post and comment on this forum while whining about tax dollars being wasted
and people being lazy and not wanting to work - go figure.

curious2 says

FortWayneIndiana says

Xx or xy

World Health Organization:

Whatever you posted has nothing to do with giving birth. there is xx and xy. One gives birth, other does not. Male / female. end of story. You lose, because you chose a wrong debunked argument. Men can't give birth. Cut your nuts all your want, still a man.

FortWayneIndiana says

Gender is decided by chromosomes.

My biology knowledge is weak and outdated, but there are several possible abnormalities that result in a person who is not strictly male or female (xy or xx):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_X_syndrome (0.1% of population)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome (0.1-0.2%)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome (0.05%)

Even if we discount (and we SHOULD discount) the inter-sectional politically correct crap about "fluid gender" and so on, there is biological, scientific basis for saying that we have people who are neither male nor female from genetic standpoint.
I get that many of you are annoyed by over-the-top propaganda and lies from left, but let's look at science instead of our emotions. "Facts don't care about our emotions"

d6rB says

FortWayneIndiana says

Gender is decided by chromosomes.

My biology knowledge is weak and outdated, but there are several possible abnormalities that result in a person who is not strictly male or female (xy or xx):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_X_syndrome (0.1% of population)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome (0.1-0.2%)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome (0.05%)

Even if we discount (and we SHOULD discount) the inter-sectional politically correct crap about "fluid gender" and so on, there is biological, scientific basis for saying that we have people who are neither male of female from genetic standpoint.

The problem I have with this is that those mutations are extremely rare. And we cannot cater and prioritize every rare conditions just to make sure nobody is offended or "disadvantaged". Where does it start and stop? Do we have to start catering to people with over or underbites, slight muscular deformations, allergies etc.? These all have genetic components, but it's not the normal state. We should teach kids what is the norm but also to be compassionate when they encounter those that are not. But we certainly should not let the exceptions become the norm and have every institution kowtow around those exceptions. Cause then you go against nature which - for a reason - established norms and normal behaviors as well as gender differences. And you will eventually destroy your society with these absurd twists.

mell says

And we cannot cater and prioritize every rare conditions just to make sure nobody is offended or "disadvantaged".

That's a different issue from admitting that some (very few) people do not biologically fit in "male" or "female" category. I don't see why we need to pander to anyone.

d6rB says

mell says

And we cannot cater and prioritize every rare conditions just to make sure nobody is offended or "disadvantaged".

That's a different issue from admitting that some (very few) people do not biologically fit in "male" or "female" category. I don't see why we need to pander to anyone

Agreed but even acknowledging those few who are different it is still fair to say to me that you have 2 genders - or better sexes - in general and to teach this to kids. When the kids become older they have more brain capacity to understand all the subtleties and exceptions biology has to offer, but as long as they are young just stick with the norm IMO, it is healthier for them. Same goes for sexual preference, girls like boys, boys like girls. Occasionally there are same-sex preferences, some temporary, some permanent, and there's nothing wrong should one experience those, mention it, then move on and back to the norm. Don't make it the norm because it isn't.

d6rB says

My biology knowledge is weak and outdated, but there are several possible abnormalities that result in a person who is not strictly male or female (xy or xx):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_X_syndrome (0.1% of population)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome (0.1-0.2%)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome (0.05%)

This is what I've been saying. Basically it's an abnormality, which is not worth changing the world for, certainly doesn't make everything crazy leftists been promoting on twitter with their bots true. It's why we call them npc's, because I bet 90% of those twitter mobs are just api automation.

Literally straight from there, xxx doesnt mean they are suddenly a man, still a woman (slightly retarded likely, but a woman). Not a whatever the fuck new acronyms they came up with.

Most females with triple X syndrome have normal sexual development and are able to conceive children.

Triple X syndrome is associated with an increased risk of learning disabilities and delayed development of speech and language skills. Delayed development of motor skills (such as sitting and walking), weak muscle tone (hypotonia), and behavioral and emotional difficulties are also possible, but these characteristics vary widely among affected girls and women. Seizures or kidney abnormalities occur in about 10 percent of affected females.

All 3 conditions, literally point to "learning disability (aka form of retardation)", but not gender differences.

FortWayneIndiana says

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome (0.1-0.2%)

Klinefelter's sufferers don't seem any different than normal males. They are no more likely to have gender dysphoria than normal XY males. Only a larger risk of infertility.

It's a genetic error, as it's not inheritable. Just an electron smacking an egg or sperm cell at the wrong time and jumbling up the code.

Gender Dysphoria in pre-pubescents mostly (~75%) disappears by the end of the first year of puberty in favor of the genitalia-indicated sex, so calls for pre-pubescent sex changes and hormone treatments are anti-science and anti-medicine. Those experiencing it DO tend to homosexual tendencies more than the norm, but the Dysphoria itself disappears and they are comfortable in their own skin.

Several studies have tracked the persistence of gender dysphoria in children as they grow. For example, Dr. Richard Green’s study of young boys with gender dysphoria in the 1980s found that only one of the 44 boys was gender dysphoric by adolescence or adulthood. And a 2008 study by Madeleine S. C. Wallein, at the VU University Medical Center in the Netherlands, reported that in a group of 77 young people, ages 5 to 12, who all had gender dysphoria at the start of the study, 70 percent of the boys and 36 percent of the girls were no longer gender dysphoric after an average of 10 years’ follow-up.

https://books.google.com.py/books?id=TgliDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=Madeleine+S.+C.+Wallein,+at+the+VU+University+Medical+Center+in+the+Netherlands&source=bl&ots=0KK26XwtfT&sig=ACfU3U2xDyYIK0XbCykQTF7nsNzr2KY1iQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjbh46kuf3gAhXBB9QKHdNWD6QQ6AEwAXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Madeleine%20S.%20C.%20Wallein%2C%20at%20the%20VU%20University%20Medical%20Center%20in%20the%20Netherlands&f=false


The Danger is that the Left wants immediate Sex Change - preferably without parental permission or even input - for these pre-pubescent sufferers. Basically damning the majority of sufferers to permanent and irreversible sex changes that are unnecessary.

Many people report their Gender Dysphoria Waxes and Wanes, and some report it entirely disappearing in the late teens and especially around age 25.

Most hermaphrodites clearly identify with their functional set of gonads, which makes sense because the ovaries/testes are producing hormones.

But most of these are vanishingly rare genetic disorders, as opposed to homosexuality which is an order of magnitude more common and seen across the animal kingdom.

Hello Goran - you must have me on alert - you show every time I do - never knew I had such a fan club. My own personal moderator.

MisterLearnToCode says

Many people report their Gender Dysphoria Waxes and Wanes, and some report it entirely disappearing in the late teens and especially around age 25.

I'd say that strict genetic definition of male is xy, female xx. The rest of definitions fall into "feelings" category. xxx, xxy, xyy are neither male not female according to the strict genetic definition.

MisterLearnToCode says

The Danger is that the Left wants immediate Sex Change - preferably without parental permission or even input - for these pre-pubescent sufferers. Basically damning the majority of sufferers to permanent and irreversible sex changes that are unnecessary.

Most of those "pre-pubescent sufferers" just need a belt taken to their backside, as their sufferings are in their heads, derived from too easy life. In some cases there might be a real problem (esp with teens who are gay - their peers can be extremely cruel and ostracize them), but in most cases this is invented.

MisterLearnToCode says

The Danger is that the Left wants immediate Sex Change - preferably without parental permission or even input - for these pre-pubescent sufferers. Basically damning the majority of sufferers to permanent and irreversible sex changes that are unnecessary.

Isn't it amazing that these kids aren't encouraged to supplement their natural sex hormones instead of taking hormone blockers and opposite sex hormone supplements for life..........let alone chopping up their bodies?

socal2 says

MisterLearnToCode says

The Danger is that the Left wants immediate Sex Change - preferably without parental permission or even input - for these pre-pubescent sufferers. Basically damning the majority of sufferers to permanent and irreversible sex changes that are unnecessary.

Isn't it amazing that these kids aren't encouraged to supplement their natural sex hormones instead of taking hormone blockers and opposite sex hormone supplements for life..........let alone chopping up their bodies?

Left does not see the absurdity in that. Promoting lifetime patients, fucking peoples lives up at the same time in name of profit, at detriment of patient.

d6rB says

I'd say that strict genetic definition of male is xy, female xx. The rest of definitions fall into "feelings" category. xxx, xxy, xyy are neither male not female according to the strict genetic definition.

Again, Klinefelter's sufferers report feeling no sexuality difference disproportionate to that of normal XY Males. Klinefelter's is the most common gender genetic disorder.

d6rB says

Most of those "pre-pubescent sufferers" just need a belt taken to their backside, as their sufferings are in their heads, derived from too easy life. In some cases there might be a real problem (esp with teens who are gay - their peers can be extremely cruel and ostracize them), but in most cases this is invented.

I said or suggested nothing to this effect. Only that the arrival of puberty and their birth gonads firing up the hormones usually solves it the clear majority of the time.

Why give a pre-pubescent child hormone shots when 75% of the dysphoria resolves itself?

socal2 says

Isn't it amazing that these kids aren't encouraged to supplement their natural sex hormones instead of taking hormone blockers and opposite sex hormone supplements for life..........let alone chopping up their bodies?

Exactly.

Money and the rest of the gang then and today are on a mission to exaggerate and hype sexual/gender behaviors/conditions on the extreme tail of the human experience.

Again, bring up Laing and the idea that Families had "Family Environments" leading to Schizophrenia. Leftists immediately said the science was settled and demanded the end of all mandatory hospitalization of Schizophrenics. Within a decade, after the Leftists said the science was settled, we did indeed find that Schizophrenia ran in families.

But not because of "Family Environments", but because of DNA.

All I said was a few facts:

Only women can get pregnant.

No man can ever get pregnant.

No woman can impregnate another woman, or herself.

Only men can impregnate women.

Are any of these statements false?

d6rB says

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_X_syndrome (0.1% of population)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome (0.1-0.2%)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome (0.05%)

XXX is female, can get pregnant.

XXY (Klinefelter) is infertile.

XYY is male, can impregnate women.

So I stand by all my assertions above.

In any case birth defects (and all three cases are correctly classified as birth defects) do not challenge the fact that there are only two human genders. And in fact, there are only two genders among all vertebrates.

Uh oh, for the socio-cultural crowd:

Brand new research on sex-related brain differences measured ?? ?????. The last bastion of hope for blank slatism has now evaporated.

"These observations confirm that sexual dimorphism in functional brain systems emerges during human gestation."https://t.co/5Kvp625qxe

— Colin Wright (@SwipeWright) March 11, 2019

Out of curiosity, I discovered Heart isn't this patriarchal Calvinist type dude former military with 5 kids in Kansas and a part time old fashioned preacher with a big beard or some shit. He's 50 at works at FINRA, no kids, dresses like a 20 year old preppy. Possibly... Jewish.

Ironically, he was doxxed by some chick he wrote 6 posts on, included her children in it, by his own coworkers.

Man, I love kiwifarms and encyclopediadramatica.

I gotta remember to check internet celebrities there more often.

Also, Zoe Quinn's real name is Katrina Van Zandersorn or something, and she had like 12 aliases before Gamergate, when she was a nobody.

Oh, sorry - and apparently she's from a wealthy family, apparently cut off for some reason (Lying? Drugs? False Accusations?) .

Here is her very honorable Grandfather.
https://archive.is/z6dzh

Kakistocracy says

@Goran - will get back to the NY Tax thread later - The only problem with the Kansas plan is the GOP took it national....

NYC is looking to do bankruptcy for the first time in 40 years as opposed to it's most famous or infamous resident who is imitating a head of state who has how many bankruptcies under his belt ?

Patrick says

All I said was a few facts:

Only women can get pregnant.

No man can ever get pregnant.

No woman can impregnate another woman, or herself.

Only men can impregnate women.

Are any of these statements false?

They are all 100% true, but at least one is incomplete.
Not all women can become pregnant, ergo we can not define woman as someone who can become pregnant as not all can.
I still stand by assertion that the best scientific definition of man is xy, and of woman xx. I do not think xxx, etc are "other genders", and perhaps they are better described as abnormalities or birth defects, but just defining woman as "someone who can give birth" is insufficient.
MisterLearnToCode says

Money and the rest of the gang then and today are on a mission to exaggerate and hype sexual/gender behaviors/conditions on the extreme tail of the human experience.

And at the same time drown out male-female sexual experience due to #metoo.

Patrick says

Are any of these statements false?

@Patrick, I addressed one already above and a previous time we discussed this on your site.

Patrick says

among all vertebrates.

Maybe read more about vertebrates on your own site.

On a related point, you misunderstood one of the issues regarding James Damore. You focus on the fact that he expressed an opinion. You ignore the fact that he littered his document with exhortations about what Google executives "need" to do. You make a similar mistake. You have an over-simplified belief about what you call "gender," and by which you seem to mean biological sex. You ignore the fact that many languages (including English and German) have at least three genders, so you end up sounding both wrong and dogmatic about it. More importantly, you arrogate to yourself a unilateral authority to define other people's gender or sex, even though they are adults. Some incredible things you've said about gay people (e.g. that gay people don't exist, there are only people who choose "vice" in order to get easy sex, and you have no theory at all to explain the existence of lesbians including your own cousin) can't possibly make sense even to you. Instead, you have started with an emotional reaction, against #MeToo or something, a fear of loss maybe, and proceeded to attack other people who have never done you any harm, nor threatened any harm. Just as James Damore was not the CEO of Google, and thus came across as incredibly arrogant in telling senior executives that they "need" to do whatever he says, you sound equally arrogant (and, in your case, dishonest and wrong) when you try to re-define the lives of other people. Life is more complicated than you choose to pretend.

And, whatever your feelings about #MeToo or whatever, they aren't a reason to pretend that intersex/trans people don't exist. These are discrete issues. I have cited the World Health Organization, medical journals, and sites dedicated specifically to intersex information. You have pulled crap out of your own posterior, and smeared your own site with it, and frankly it stinks. Fortwhine has his own problems, but now an Indiana / Heartiste echo chamber is developing. It might interest you to read more about the author of Heartiste, Jim Weidman, before you decide to devote yourself and your site to his doctrine.

People have a right to live their own lives. People have a right to the equal protection of the laws. People exist, even if their existence disproves your doctrine (or phony "theory").

CBOEtrader says

Define many.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/many

@CBOETrader, I have already linked to 14 published examples, and they are of course only a subset of the total. In any event, they exist. @Patrick was claiming, falsely, that they don't exist. It reminds me of when Democrats insisted that voter fraud doesn't exist. All you need is one example, e.g. from Jimmy Carter's book, to prove that something exists. I cited 14, and nobody who looks at the data can seriously doubt there are more.

I replied to your other comment already above.

@curious2 - why would you waste your time with CBOETrader ? Seriously ?

What ever you present, it will never be enough, correct, fake, etc. this is part of the "game"

Kakistocracy says

why would you waste your time with CBOETrader ? Seriously ?

Why waste time on PatNet at all? I keep leaving, and then people address comments to me specifically, and I should ignore them but I return to answer. There are better things to read.

curious2 says

Why waste time on PatNet at all? I keep leaving, and then people address comments to me specifically, and I should ignore them but I return to answer. There are better things to read.

Set up your inbox to dump anything that comes from here or uncheck getting "likes" option in your profile.

My time here is drawing to a close quickly - counter productive and posting anything requiring reading & thinking is a lost cause - not going to happen - the only reactions come from headlines.

Reactions are driven by emotion and responses are driven by thought. We have too much of the first option and not nearly enough of the second option.

Kaki says

My time here is drawing to a close quickly

Should we have a going away party?

MrMagic says

curious2 says

My time here is drawing to a close quickly

Should we have a going away party?

That blockquote came from Kakistocracy's comment, not mine. The misattribution provides yet another example of PatNet going downhill, along with broken links and bizarre replacements of special characters that were correct when posted, and Patrick's decision to prevent people from editing their own comments. So, a comment that was originally written correctly and backed by working links becomes partial gibberish unsupported by anything.

curious2 says

That blockquote came from Kakistocracy's comment, not mine.

You're right... strange gremlins here when you try and quote a comment...

There, I "adjusted" it.. Never knew I had to be a software engineer to post.

personal

curious2 says

CBOEtrader says

Define many.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/many

@CBOETrader, I have already linked to 14 published examples, and they are of course only a subset of the total. In any event, they exist. @Patrick was claiming, falsely, that they don't exist. It reminds me of when Democrats insisted that voter fraud doesn't exist. All you need is one example, e.g. from Jimmy Carter's book, to prove that something exists. I cited 14, and nobody who looks at the data can seriously doubt there are more.

I replied to your other comment already above.

14 in the last 50 years is an infinitely tiny number. That is exactly the point

personal

188 MrMagic ignore (11) 2019 Mar 18, 8:50am ↑ like (0) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag
Kakistocracy says
@CBOETrader - what an exciting life that u must lead to be up at 3:00 A.M. PST to browse PatNet

Says the guy who's up at 2:58 AM PST browsing Patnet.

Folks, you can't make this shit up.

FYI 2:58 PST is 5:58 EST which is where I am located. I normally get up around 4:30-5:00 A.M.

Empty head - meet loud mouth, location New Jersey. Case closed and settled, be happy together.

personal

@joshuatrio - hey sport, forgot to mention one minor detail about my work life.

The last half of my career I worked out of my home, set my own hours, travel schedules etc. for the most part and pretty much did what I wanted to when I wanted to.

No one ever really figured out what I did exactly, right up to the end, how long it took me to do whatever it was I was doing or did and I just kind of showed up here there and everywhere, mostly unannounced.

Can you believe that there was a vicious rumor going around the company that I was a "mole" for the home office and reported back on the comings and goings of my peers, local plant conditions, grievances and such that never made it back to HR etc?

@CBOEtrader - going to guess by the commentary of the last few weeks there may be a tiny bit of dislike towards Moi.