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A 21 step guide to a horrible retirement


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2019 Mar 17, 11:08am   6,307 views  121 comments

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There’s an abundance of advice on how to plan for retirement. Oh, it’s good advice. But it’s also a bit complicated, often requires discipline and always necessitates actually doing something.

And let’s face it: Who needs advice? Who wants to actually do something? Here are 20 ways to ignore the experts—and wreck your chances of a financially comfortable retirement:

1. Keep thinking retirement is so far in the future that there’s no need to act now. There’s still plenty of time. After all, you’re only [insert age].

2. Avoid saving when you’re young and instead play catch-up starting at age 50. At that juncture, the government allows you to save more in both employer plans and IRAs, so that must mean it’s OK to wait.

3. Bank on being able to work until age 75 or beyond.

4. Live for today, so you accumulate debt right up until the day you hope to retire.

5. Invest in individual stocks you pick personally. Almost as good: If offered a retirement plan at work, close your eyes and pick the three options that sound best.

6. Ignore all the retirement planning tools available to you. They’re just too time consuming.

7. Never contribute to your 401(k), because right now there are so many better uses for the cash. Can’t resist the savings urge? Make sure you contribute at a level where you don’t earn the full employer match.

8. Keep the same mix of investments at age 60 that you had at age 25. Change is not good.

9. Take your Social Security at age 62, needed or not. It’s your money. Grab it while you can.

10. Only save in tax-deductible accounts and don’t bother with the Roth, let alone taxable accounts. That way, you can spend your retirement paying ordinary income tax on all your investment gains.

11. Ignore the need to provide for survivors. Don’t designate beneficiaries for your 401(k) or IRA. Don’t bother with life insurance. Got a pension? Talk your spouse into agreeing to a single life annuity benefit. After all, it’s your pension, right?

12. Make sure all your savings are in tax-favored plans, so they aren’t easily accessible in an emergency. What about the income taxes and potential tax penalties? You worry too much.

13. Assume there will be a major drop in your spending when you retire. Make a list of all your expenses, just to be sure. Are things looking a little tight? For goodness’ sake, don’t tell your spouse.

14. Cancel that long-term-care policy you bought years ago. If you haven’t needed it so far, you likely never will—and, besides, you have plans for that premium refund.

15. You’ve been waiting so long to buy that boat or RV. You deserve it. And what do you know? It’s so easy to get a 401(k) loan.

16. Invest heavily in your employer’s stock. There’s no doubt it’s a good company—and not at all like Enron.

17. Don’t worry about inflation after you retire. It’s been low for years and no doubt it’ll stay that way.

18. When someone tries to explain the power of compounding, don’t bother listening to all that gobbledygook.

19. When there’s a big drop in the stock market, make sure you shift into bonds. There’s no point sitting around and losing everything.

20. Still got money left for retirement? Tell your adult kids you’re always willing to help them out financially.

21. Assume that you will never be the victim of a scam. Ignore the research indicating that 1 in 5 seniors is victimized - because you're far too smart to be 'taken.' Identity theft &/or fraud on your accounts could never happen to you. Added this one after reading the comments in the original article

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-20-step-guide-to-a-horrible-retirement-2019-03-16?mod=mw_theo_homepage

#Retirement #Economics

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18   CBOEtrader   2019 Mar 18, 3:23am  

#22 . Follow platitude advice lists from poorly written articles.

Take the money at 62. Also, most 401k's are terrible, especially if they are managed.

the secret to retirement is to sell annuities to seniors :)
19   joshuatrio   2019 Mar 18, 5:00am  

Retirement is simple. Work hard, live below your means & save.
20   Ceffer   2019 Mar 18, 5:35am  

Another item that is a scam is nursing home insurance. Only a minority percentage of people ever go into 'nursing homes' to begin with. Most die at home or in hospitals/hospice. Also, most people die after a year or two in a nursing home, anyway, so if it eats up all your money, who cares?

Usually the only ones who care are the heirs who wish to cash in when you croak and don't like seeing all those greenbacks going into your elderly care to begin with. If you spend yourself into destitution, the state will usually step in to finance some form of nursing home, but you are probably better off dead at that point, anyway.

You've become part of the 'end of life' industry where you wind up cycled in and out of hospitals/emergency rooms and are tortured by the medical profession with needless operations and procedures that do nothing to either extend your life or improve your quality of life.
Most people's last months or year are in fact a medically induced hell. A lot of doctors don't go through these therapies themselves, they just get their affairs in order and perform a clean Kervorkian.

Insurance companies 'luv' the idea that they can get premiums from you for 30 years, while they degrade the policies with exceptions, codicils, or just plain selling the policies to insurers who are a lot sleazier than the big giant you may have bought it from to begin with. When they don't pay and cite fine print, waddya gonna do at 85 and headed to a nursing home, sue them for ten years? It's the perfect insurance vehicle for insurance companies, who are always a moving target to begin with.
21   Ceffer   2019 Mar 18, 6:24am  

Retirement: Fucked and getting Fuckeder. Excessive money helps a bit.
22   anonymous   2019 Mar 18, 6:36am  

CBOEtrader says
the secret to retirement is to sell annuities to seniors


Garden Variety Insurance Schelppers are on the same scale as realtors, if not a bit worse - really a toss up.
23   anonymous   2019 Mar 18, 6:40am  

joshuatrio says
ive below your means & save.


Alien concepts for the vast majority of Americans that do have the means to do this and wishful thinking for those that lack the means but would love to.

Can not stress the importance of sitting down with a CPA and an Estate Planning / Elder Law Attorney to map out and put in place a comprehensive "game" plan complete with trusts, advance directives, wills etc. well before you need them or when you think you will since no one knows what lies ahead in terms of health and accidents.

The few thousand spent setting all of this up will pay for itself down the road over and over.

Saves everyone involved a lot of headaches and gives peace of mind knowing how rehabilitation for accidents/illness, nursing homes etc. will be paid for and how to avoid taxes etc.

You can outline who gets to make decisions on whatever, if you become incapacitated and who to eliminate from those decisions, avoiding probate etc.

Some people may be good at making decisions for you in one area and not in another such as when the end of life has to be made or anything involving large dollar amounts.

You know your own family and who is responsible and who isn't. You know who is pragmatic and realistic and who is driven by greed or emotionally a basket case in times of stress.
24   CBOEtrader   2019 Mar 18, 6:47am  

Ceffer says
nursing home insurance


Long term care insurance is more about estate planning than anything else. You can keep the equivalent of your LTC insurance contract in your name while spending down assets before medicaid picks up the bill. Something like 70% of seniors die on medicaid.
25   CBOEtrader   2019 Mar 18, 6:51am  

Kakistocracy says
CBOEtrader says
the secret to retirement is to sell annuities to seniors


Garden Variety Insurance Schelppers are on the same scale as realtors, if not a bit worse - really a toss up.


Try going through life w/o insurance. Good luck to ya
26   joshuatrio   2019 Mar 18, 6:59am  

Kakistocracy says


Alien concepts for the vast majority of Americans that do have the means to do this and wishful thinking for those that lack the means but would love to.


Everyone has the ability to do this, just don't want because it's HARD WORK.

My wife and I were the working poor for the first couple years in our marriage. Well over $100k in debt + mortgage. We worked our asses off and in about 2 years got debt free. Hell, we even lived at the poverty level in California, and still saved money because we made good decisions.

ANYONE can do it. Very few WANT to.

The whole excuse/blame it on someone else is a joke.

If it's too expensive where you live, sell your shit, move somewhere cheaper. Job sucks? Get a better job. No education? Go to community college, learn a skill, get better job, then have employer pay for more education.

None of this shit is rocket science, people just don't like to work anymore.
27   Ceffer   2019 Mar 18, 7:24am  

Kakistocracy says
Can not stress the importance of sitting down with a CPA and an Estate Planning / Elder Law Attorney to map out and put in place a comprehensive "game" plan complete with trusts, advance directives, wills etc. well before you need them or when you think you will since no one knows what lies ahead in terms of health and accidents.


Adding a few lampreys to your estate plan doesn't mean it won't be mired in infighting between heirs. It would maybe avoid a bit of probate. Tax laws change every year, and every five years there is a MAJOR tax law shift. That means that the lampreys are on board for more fees every couple of couple. It's all a kaleidoscope of shifting sands and bureaucratic nightmares. You should pay attention, but the lampreys are over-rated in their utility. They like to keep a few horror stories in their backpack to make you paranoid and spending on their 'services', but as far as true risk management is concerned, they are probably a greater risk to your wealth than any number of outside forces. If you aren't attentive enough to look into your own affairs in reasonable detail, you are road kill, anyway.

I love the way lawyers make you think you are getting something for your money, then dreamily stare out the window citing that this hasn't been settled yet by SCOTUS, that hasn't been settled yet by SCOTUS, this other thing in your plan is still on the legal chopping block, and that nifty tax dodge may come back to bite you with penalties if the IRS looks a little too hard at it, plus, of course, more legal fees. It's all just too complex for you to understand, so just fork over for the ride. Of course, none of it is ever their fault, you have to sign stacks of waivers and exceptions, it just the terrible system they are trying to 'protect' you from. The only question, is who is going to protect you from them.

A guy I knew quite well was a math divvy, accountant and financial planner. He also pursued advanced training in the law. In his own iife, he spent and borrowed with little savings or equities, and liked to sell a lot of annuities. His dream was just to develop his nut of portfolios with enough dollars that he could just ride on the commissions.

Better just to admit that when you are dead, you can't control your afterlife or your children/heirs.
28   CBOEtrader   2019 Mar 18, 7:35am  

Ceffer says
Better just to admit that when you are dead, you can't control your afterlife or your children/heirs.


If you want to protect to assets into medicaid spend down, you should think ahead and form a trust while you are healthy.

At minimum, every senior needs the right health insurance, a final expense life policy, a will, and enough income to cover basic expenses for life.

If you dont do ^^ odds are you will become a ward of state into your declining health years, and your relatives will remember the headaches you left instead of your good memories.

Do the minimum for your family, at least
29   Ceffer   2019 Mar 18, 7:46am  

One thing is, the financial planner I knew was often working for doofuses who would have been better off with any form of organized planning. However, listening to him talk about clients who seemingly acquired wealth almost by accident, many of them sounded like hopeless cases of poor, shortsighted judgment, and he couldn't even save them from themselves/ exhausting their own tills no matter how many plans he manufactured for them. He spent a lot of time listening to screaming relatives plotting against each other around even fairly trivial estates, and wanting to liquidate things as fast as possible for the money.

He had a sister in law who inherited 800k many years ago. He set up trusts, accounts for her children etc. etc. She wound up shacking up with a convict, and they both wound up dissolving every structure (paying penalties/taxes etc.) and squandering every last cent over a few years.

Paying for the goodwill of children towards you after your death isn't prudent, it's a form of delusion. If they visit your grave and put flowers there for a couple of years, you are probably in the lucky minority. It's a lovely sales pitch, though.
30   zzyzzx   2019 Mar 18, 7:57am  

Ceffer says
If they visit your grave and put flowers there for a couple of years, you are probably in the lucky minority.


Yeah, when we were on Long Island last time, there was no mention of even visiting gravesites. My parents intend to be buried near their retirement home, which is nowhere near any family.
31   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2019 Mar 18, 8:10am  

Basically they die before collecting?

CBOEtrader says
#22 . Follow platitude advice lists from poorly written articles.

Take the money at 62. Also, most 401k's are terrible, especially if they are managed.

the secret to retirement is to sell annuities to seniors :)
32   anonymous   2019 Mar 18, 8:29am  

@joshuatrio

Not at easy as you would like to make it out to be to sell, move, save and no where did I sad blame it on someone else. That was your spin.

There is no shortage of real working poor who do not have the where with all to comment on forums like this.
33   anonymous   2019 Mar 18, 8:31am  

Ceffer says
Adding a few lampreys to your estate plan doesn't mean it won't be mired in infighting between heirs


If it is done correctly, you can all but eliminate it.

Then again finding someone to do estate planning is just like going out to buy a house or car. You need to interview quite a few to see what is going on and making a decision based on cost should not be the ultimate decider.

You also want to know what happens to all that planing etc. if the attorney's die - is there a mechanism in place to ensure continuity of the plan

A financial planner is not the same as en Elder Law Professional and I would run away from someone who was doing both.
34   anonymous   2019 Mar 18, 8:37am  

CBOEtrader says
Long term care insurance is more about estate planning than anything else. You can keep the equivalent of your LTC insurance contract in your name while spending down assets before medicaid picks up the bill.


Agree with part two, not the first part. It is one part of the whole and when real estate and large dollar assets are involved, things get tricky. Military service - so many other things go into the mix.

In my own case this was a multi-month process fine tuning details and that was after a year's long search for the right people to write and set up the plan.

The office I chose has a "team" in place with each responsible for certain aspects of what went into the plan and that involved meeting with each of them one on one besides meeting with the team before everything was signed and accepted.
35   Ceffer   2019 Mar 18, 8:39am  

FortWayneIndiana says
Basically they die before collecting?


I think they pocket the commission and then send out one of those $500 cartel hit men before the first check is minted.
36   CBOEtrader   2019 Mar 18, 8:46am  

Kakistocracy says
It is one part of the whole


Comment was specific to the LTC part. That product specifically is usually bought for estate planning. Medicaid will also pay for your LTC, and as previously mentioned is paying last dime for most seniors when they die. If you are pinching hamburger pennies, chances are medicaid is in your future as it is for most seniors.

If you have a LTC policy however, you may have an extra $2 hundred thousand personal capital before medicaid kicks in.
37   MrMagic   2019 Mar 18, 8:53am  

Kakistocracy says
The office I chose has a "team" in place with each responsible for certain aspects of what went into the plan and that involved meeting with each of them one on one besides meeting with the team before everything was signed and accepted.


Ceffer says
Adding a few lampreys to your estate plan doesn't mean it won't be mired in infighting between heirs.


Ceffer says
I love the way lawyers make you think you are getting something for your money,


A fool and his money are soon parted...
38   CBOEtrader   2019 Mar 18, 8:53am  

Ceffer says
FortWayneIndiana says
Basically they die before collecting?


I think they pocket the commission and then send out one of those $500 cartel hit men before the first check is minted.


Haha no. An annuity would just pay back the capital plus a minimum interest rate.

I am literally paying for my retirement via annuity sales commissions, as it is my career. that's the joke.

How often have you looked at your 401k returns? 1.75% management fees plus 2% rebalancing fees? You are lucky to return 4%, and still open to massive downside market risk. I roll $50 to 200k of 401k into tax deferred annuities or 3.5% w no downside risk, bread and butter risk management diversification
39   MrMagic   2019 Mar 18, 8:55am  

joshuatrio says
Retirement is simple. Work hard, live below your means & save.


It's as simple as that. The OP certainly doesn't understand the basics.

The easiest plan: Save 10% pretax for retirement, save 10% post tax for emergencies, large purchases, vacations, etc., live on the remainder and lock up the credit cards.
40   anonymous   2019 Mar 18, 9:00am  

@CBOEtrader - anyone trying to buy a long term care policy now better have some pretty deep pockets, It is cost prohibitive

As for the loud mouth empty head duo from Jersey you are 100% right, fools and their money are easily parted which is why I am not married but you are.

Case closed and settled - again.
41   MrMagic   2019 Mar 18, 9:02am  

joshuatrio says
The whole excuse/blame it on someone else is a joke.


That sees to be the major trend of the Left. That's why they love Bernie. Can't do it for themselves, so they need the government to hold their dicks for them.

Kakistocracy says
@CBOEtrader - anyone trying to buy a long term care policy now better have some pretty deep pockets, It is cost prohibitive


That's why it's called "Planning Ahead", getting it when your young, apparently you missed that part from your wonderful financial planners.

Kakistocracy says
which is why I am not married.


Why am I not surprised?
42   MrMagic   2019 Mar 18, 9:09am  

Ceffer says
Another item that is a scam is nursing home insurance. Only a minority percentage of people ever go into 'nursing homes' to begin with. Most die at home or in hospitals/hospice. Also, most people die after a year or two in a nursing home, anyway, so if it eats up all your money, who cares?


It's a safety net, just like other insurances. Wifey got a LTC policy years ago to cover the nursing home possibility, but she's in the healthcare field, so it's important to her.

She bugged me to get one too, but I told her, I will never see the inside of a NH for care, I spent too many years in them with past customers, it will NEVER be my final residence. I have a different exit plan that doesn't include any nursing facility.
43   MrMagic   2019 Mar 18, 9:15am  

CBOEtrader says
How often have you looked at your 401k returns? 1.75% management fees plus 2% rebalancing fees? You are lucky to return 4%, and still open to massive downside market risk. I roll $50 to 200k of 401k into tax deferred annuities or 3.5% w no downside risk, bread and butter risk management diversification


I did something similar with a chunk of money. Granted it isn't the best return, but compared to parking it in bonds, which have risk too, with the annuities we know there's a guaranteed check coming each month to one of us, so it's one pool of money that doesn't have to be worried about.
44   Ceffer   2019 Mar 18, 9:23am  

Rate of return post fees on one plain vanilla Vanguard 60stock/40bond portfolio averaged 7.3 percent over the last ten years. Vanguard fees are very low compared to industry averages. Not a windfall, but not bad considering very low interest rates and market conditions over that time period.
Professionally managed, you could probably knock that down to 3 or 4 percent with the various vigs.
45   CBOEtrader   2019 Mar 18, 9:45am  

Ceffer says
Rate of return post fees on one plain vanilla Vanguard 60stock/40bond portfolio averaged 7.3 percent over the last ten years. Vanguard fees are very low compared to industry averages. Not a windfall, but not bad considering very low interest rates and market conditions over that time period.
Professionally managed, you could probably knock that down to 3 or 4 percent with the various vigs.


Yeah a financial planner will buy the same vanguard fund w 40 %, then diversify your remaining portfolio into a bond fund. For that level of thoughtful service, you should be happy to pay 3% per annum, and net fingers crosses 3.5% w massive remaining market risk.
46   CBOEtrader   2019 Mar 18, 10:03am  

ThreeBays says
Ceffer says
So, unless you have some pretty firm longevity, I wouldn't blame anybody for taking SS at 62 assuming it isn't taxable at the 85 percent rate, but it would be a good idea to wait until 66-67 if you could if you are fully retired and your other sources of income are more limited.


Yeah. I consider taking SS at 62 as planning for dying early, which is a bad idea. It's living a long time that will cost a heck of a lot more and risk you running out of money before you die. Just think if you take your money at 62 and you're unlucky enough to live to 100!


You can annuitized any pool of capital and get checks for life. Added to your SS which grows w inflation (supposedly) and you can cover basic income for life.
47   joshuatrio   2019 Mar 18, 10:26am  

Kakistocracy says

Not at easy as you would like to make it out to be to sell, move, save and no where did I sad blame it on someone else. That was your spin.


I WAS the working poor AND got my shit together AND started making good money, while living in California - Monterey to be specific. I didn't leave the high cost of living until I had a solid career.

It really is that easy.

Plus, in CA, there are so many gov't programs to give you free healthcare and education, that there really isn't any excuse for being poor.

Please explain how the working poor afford new iphones, coach handbags and guess jeans? It's not from saving and living below their means.

I could retire now, but my ass still drives a 10 year old beater, and shop and thrift stores for clothes.
48   joshuatrio   2019 Mar 18, 10:29am  

MrMagic says


That sees to be the major trend of the Left. That's why they love Bernie. Can't do it for themselves, so they need the government to hold their dicks for them.


Yep. That's why hard workers hate socialism.
49   Ceffer   2019 Mar 18, 10:31am  

I am glad there are guides to a horrible retirement. I would hate to have to figure out a horrible retirement on my own.
50   Bd6r   2019 Mar 18, 10:59am  

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says
buy a wife from Kurdistan and arm her with M134

Not a bad idea. Just make sure she has served in YPJ:

www.youtube.com/embed/hLFTguywlMo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_Protection_Units

51   anonymous   2019 Mar 18, 11:13am  

joshuatrio says
I WAS the working poor AND got my shit together AND started making good money, while living in California - Monterey to be specific. I didn't leave the high cost of living until I had a solid career.
>
It really is that easy.



Plus, in CA, there are so many gov't programs to give you free healthcare and education, that there really isn't any excuse for being poor.



Please explain how the working poor afford new iphones, coach handbags and guess jeans? It's not from saving and living below their means.



I could retire now, but my ass still drives a 10 year old beater, and shop and thrift stores for clothes.


Not biting on the explanation part - I know how this works on here.

You got your "shit" together or got fortunate to land a decent position somewhere ? Not everyone catches the same breaks in life regardless of credentials.

Picking up and moving cross country on your own dime is not cheap.

It really is that easy ? If that were so everyone would be an Olympic Athlete, Surgeon, Astronaut etc.

What does driving a 10 year old car and having a wife who is thrifty have to do with being able to retire ?
52   anonymous   2019 Mar 18, 11:21am  

CBOEtrader says
You can annuitized any pool of capital and get checks for life.


Until the insurance company rated AAA or better A.M.Best gets bought out and "conditions" change or they fold entirely.

Annuities only do well for the person selling them, not the people buying them. People that sell annuities have the same scruples as a real estate agent - they are only interested in one thing, their own commission.

Anytime you are involved with anyone selling anything on commission, you have a built in conflict of interest - their commission against your best interests

A Financial Planner is not the same as an Elder Law Legal specialist. Why pay someone to do your financial planning ?

A good Elder Law Specialist will be abreast of all changes just like a good CPA and will notify you of changes needed in your plan. You should also negotiate the fee(s) to see what is included and what is and is not covered
53   joshuatrio   2019 Mar 18, 11:22am  

Kakistocracy says
Not everyone catches the same breaks in life regardless of credentials.


Everyone has the same opportunity. Don't turn this into identity politics.

It's called working your ass off. Everyone has the ability to go to elementary school, high school, community college. FOR FUCKING FREE!

Anyone can have a nice standard of living - if they are willing to work for it. Period.

Kakistocracy says
Picking up and moving cross country on your own dime is not cheap.


You're missing the part where I went from nothing, to something in one of the most expensive areas in the country. Then got the hell out.

If you're stuck in Santa Cruz, go beg on the corner for $$, get a one way bus ticket to Kansas, get on some gov't assistance, and start putting your life together.

Life is what you make it.

Kakistocracy says

It really is that easy ? If that were so everyone would be an Olympic Athlete, Surgeon, Astronaut etc.


Your wrong.

To be an astronaut, surgeon or athlete, you have to work hard.

People don't want to work.

Hence, why people like candidates like Bernie and A.O.C.
54   anonymous   2019 Mar 18, 11:25am  

joshuatrio says
Everyone has the same opportunity. Don't turn this into identity politics.


Bullshit - I did not bring up politics you did.
55   anonymous   2019 Mar 18, 11:25am  

joshuatrio says
You're missing the part where I went from nothing, to something in one of the most expensive areas in the country.


I saw that part - you want a gold star ?
56   anonymous   2019 Mar 18, 11:26am  

joshuatrio says
To be an astronaut, surgeon or athlete, you have to work hard.


Bullshit again - yes you have to work hard, no not everyone can do it - there are physical limitations and mental capacity to handle the university curriculum.
57   joshuatrio   2019 Mar 18, 11:26am  

Kakistocracy says

joshuatrio says
Everyone has the same opportunity. Don't turn this into identity politics.


Bullshit - I did not bring up politics you did.


It was pretty obvious you were headed down that road when you stated this:

Kakistocracy says
Not everyone catches the same breaks in life regardless of credentials.

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