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A 21 step guide to a horrible retirement
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2019 Mar 17, 11:08am 6,304 views 121 comments
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67
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 1:11pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 1:11pm
joshuatrio says
This Kaki guy is either the worst troll or biggest socialist. The Straw Men he keeps throwing up against FACTS is amazing.
ANYONE can get ahead, and move up the ladder just by showing up to work and putting in a full 8 hours. ANYONE!
It's the slackers who cry and whine (like someone in this thread) that want to be compensated for NOT working, or whine why they can't get ahead when every one else is.
joshuatrio says
And that is the MAIN reason why I was able to retire in my 50's.
No special breaks, no luck, no lottery winnings, no inheritance. Just working hard, making my own opportunities and not living paycheck to paycheck. It's a really simple plan.
Kakistocracy says
Bullshit again - yes you have to work hard, no not everyone can do it - there are physical limitations and mental capacity to handle the university curriculum.
You gotta be shitting me.
This Kaki guy is either the worst troll or biggest socialist. The Straw Men he keeps throwing up against FACTS is amazing.
ANYONE can get ahead, and move up the ladder just by showing up to work and putting in a full 8 hours. ANYONE!
It's the slackers who cry and whine (like someone in this thread) that want to be compensated for NOT working, or whine why they can't get ahead when every one else is.
joshuatrio says
The bottom line is, you CAN retire if you WORK HARD and LIVE BELOW YOUR MEANS and SAVE.
And that is the MAIN reason why I was able to retire in my 50's.
No special breaks, no luck, no lottery winnings, no inheritance. Just working hard, making my own opportunities and not living paycheck to paycheck. It's a really simple plan.
68
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 1:21pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 1:21pm
CBOEtrader says
Yeah, but to be fair, you need to have investments available to put into a annuity. The ones I see bashing them, don't have a pot to piss in, that's why they're so bitter and negative on them. Apparently, they're pissed off that they're missing out.
Kakistocracy saysAnnuities only do well for the person selling them, not the people buying them.
That's just wrong man, annuities are the only product in the world that protect against market risk and offer lifetime income. SS system is built around annuities.
Yeah, but to be fair, you need to have investments available to put into a annuity. The ones I see bashing them, don't have a pot to piss in, that's why they're so bitter and negative on them. Apparently, they're pissed off that they're missing out.
69
HeadSet
2019 Mar 18, 2:31pm
HeadSet
2019 Mar 18, 2:31pm
annuities are the only product in the world that protect against market risk and offer lifetime income.
Are we talking about the same thing? I am thinking of the high commission device where the salesperson pushes a product where the customer pays X lump sum and then gets an X monthly payment until death.
Forbes cites a typical example where one pays a $100,000 lump sum and then receives $416.67 per month until death, a "5% payout" annuity. This does not include any fees.
Quick math here shows it will take 20 years just to recoup your $100,000, even longer if you include the fees.
If you just put the $100,000 into a 2.5% savings account, you could withdraw $500/mo for 20 years and 3 months before using up the money. And if you pass away before that 20 years, you can will the remainder.
Are we talking about the same thing? I am thinking of the high commission device where the salesperson pushes a product where the customer pays X lump sum and then gets an X monthly payment until death.
Forbes cites a typical example where one pays a $100,000 lump sum and then receives $416.67 per month until death, a "5% payout" annuity. This does not include any fees.
Quick math here shows it will take 20 years just to recoup your $100,000, even longer if you include the fees.
If you just put the $100,000 into a 2.5% savings account, you could withdraw $500/mo for 20 years and 3 months before using up the money. And if you pass away before that 20 years, you can will the remainder.
70
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 2:52pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 2:52pm
HeadSet says
That's one area to be aware of, that they aren't loaded with fees and commissions. There are some that aren't like that, depends on the broker selling them. As always, buyer beware.
HeadSet says
First, some annuities have death benefits that pay out the remainder of what's not spent. Also, some are written to both husband and wife, and pays out until the last one dies.
Also, regarding your bank scenario, what happens if you live longer than 20 years, like 25 or 30. Your bank money would be long gone, while the annuity would keep paying out until you died. Plus, that bank interest rate isn't guaranteed, so if you remember a few years back, savings accounts were paying 0.05%, where the annuity rate/payment always stays the same.
Like anything else, the more you know...
Are we talking about the same thing? I am thinking of the high commission device where the salesperson pushes a product where the customer pays X lump sum and then gets an X monthly payment until death.
That's one area to be aware of, that they aren't loaded with fees and commissions. There are some that aren't like that, depends on the broker selling them. As always, buyer beware.
HeadSet says
Quick math here shows it will take 20 years just to recoup your $100,000, even longer if you include the fees.
If you just put the $100,000 into a 2.5% savings account, you could withdraw $500/mo for 20 years and 3 months before using up the money. And if you pass away before that 20 years, you can will the remainder.
First, some annuities have death benefits that pay out the remainder of what's not spent. Also, some are written to both husband and wife, and pays out until the last one dies.
Also, regarding your bank scenario, what happens if you live longer than 20 years, like 25 or 30. Your bank money would be long gone, while the annuity would keep paying out until you died. Plus, that bank interest rate isn't guaranteed, so if you remember a few years back, savings accounts were paying 0.05%, where the annuity rate/payment always stays the same.
Like anything else, the more you know...
71
anonymous
2019 Mar 18, 2:55pm
MrMagic says
Wrong again as usual. Annuities are highly Illiquid and most often come with heavy fees and penalties to get out of them.
These products really only benefit the seller.
The ones I see bashing them, don't have a pot to piss in, that's why they're so bitter and negative on them. Apparently, they're pissed off that they're missing out.
Wrong again as usual. Annuities are highly Illiquid and most often come with heavy fees and penalties to get out of them.
These products really only benefit the seller.
72
anonymous
2019 Mar 18, 2:57pm
joshuatrio says
Done it all my life.
That being said you have to accept the world is not fair, the rules are not fair and no one is looking out for you except yourself.
To that end I have done things ethically and unethically to achieve my desired goals.
Manipulate rules, manipulate people - whatever it takes. If you don't someone else will.
In which case, you work hard, live below your means and save for retirement!!
Done it all my life.
That being said you have to accept the world is not fair, the rules are not fair and no one is looking out for you except yourself.
To that end I have done things ethically and unethically to achieve my desired goals.
Manipulate rules, manipulate people - whatever it takes. If you don't someone else will.
73
anonymous
2019 Mar 18, 2:58pm
joshuatrio says
I am not your "bro" - thankfully - nor any type of relative which is even better
Bro, I hate to say it
I am not your "bro" - thankfully - nor any type of relative which is even better
74
anonymous
2019 Mar 18, 2:59pm
joshuatrio says
This is different than its "easy"
The bottom line is, you CAN retire if you WORK HARD and LIVE BELOW YOUR MEANS and SAVE.
This is different than its "easy"
75
anonymous
2019 Mar 18, 3:03pm
CBOEtrader says
WTF - of course you are going to claim that - it's how you make your living selling bullshit to suckers.
Not that is of any concern to you or the loud mouth from Jersey but my retirement is going just fine, just started year 10 and bailed at age 57 with no annuities as well.
That's just wrong man, annuities are the only product in the world that protect against market risk and offer lifetime income. SS system is built around annuities.
Keep telling yourself those wives tales though, I'm sure your retirement will go great
WTF - of course you are going to claim that - it's how you make your living selling bullshit to suckers.
Not that is of any concern to you or the loud mouth from Jersey but my retirement is going just fine, just started year 10 and bailed at age 57 with no annuities as well.
76
Ceffer
2019 Mar 18, 3:50pm
Ceffer
2019 Mar 18, 3:50pm
If somebody is not responsible with large lump sums, then an annuity is a good choice. Irresponsible people are legion. Old people get robbed of lump sums all the time.
An older person without proper mental function, or a younger person who will squander money are better off with monthly allowances rather than a large amount they can lose, so annuities serve a purpose.
For some reason, there are people who would rather have a check from an institution every month than their own money. Annuities are good for them, too, but you really have to shop if you want an annuity that is protective and a reasonable deal. It is an insurance product with all the pitfalls and traps that that implies.
Insurance companies are huge lobbyists, too, so, surprise, surprise; annuities have a place in those trusts and estate planning tools.
An older person without proper mental function, or a younger person who will squander money are better off with monthly allowances rather than a large amount they can lose, so annuities serve a purpose.
For some reason, there are people who would rather have a check from an institution every month than their own money. Annuities are good for them, too, but you really have to shop if you want an annuity that is protective and a reasonable deal. It is an insurance product with all the pitfalls and traps that that implies.
Insurance companies are huge lobbyists, too, so, surprise, surprise; annuities have a place in those trusts and estate planning tools.
77
anonymous
2019 Mar 18, 3:56pm
Ceffer says
Only if you opt for them. As soon as the subject was brought up - it was cancelled. Took the information an ran it by several people with no skin in the game and all agreed avoid at all costs.
They all agreed more cost effective and safer to set up a trust/trustee account to handle liquid assets with a layer or two of oversight for anyone inheriting anything that may be prone to spending sprees.
There are some annuities that are approaching somewhat reasonable in my book as far as fees, cashout etc. but those choices keep changing and require a lot of work and second and even third opinions to vet them and then weigh the opinions offered. For now I'll pass and save the commission fees and do my own investing.
annuities have a place in those trusts and estate planning tools
Only if you opt for them. As soon as the subject was brought up - it was cancelled. Took the information an ran it by several people with no skin in the game and all agreed avoid at all costs.
They all agreed more cost effective and safer to set up a trust/trustee account to handle liquid assets with a layer or two of oversight for anyone inheriting anything that may be prone to spending sprees.
There are some annuities that are approaching somewhat reasonable in my book as far as fees, cashout etc. but those choices keep changing and require a lot of work and second and even third opinions to vet them and then weigh the opinions offered. For now I'll pass and save the commission fees and do my own investing.
78
FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut
2019 Mar 18, 4:00pm
FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut
2019 Mar 18, 4:00pm
You sold your soul to satan. At least you are honest about it.
Kakistocracy says
Kakistocracy says
joshuatrio saysIn which case, you work hard, live below your means and save for retirement!!
Done it all my life.
That being said you have to accept the world is not fair, the rules are not fair and no one is looking out for you except yourself.
To that end I have done things ethically and unethically to achieve my desired goals.
Manipulate rules, manipulate people - whatever it takes. If you don't someone else will.
79
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 4:11pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 4:11pm
Kakistocracy says
You should really try reading comprehension, and learn something:
MrMagic says
Do I need to type s l o w e r ?
Kakistocracy says
Someone really can't keep thoughts straight.
Which is it, are they all garbage and sold by crooks, or are there decent ones and people just need to be aware what they are buying?
What does Putin say?
Wrong again as usual. Annuities are highly Illiquid and most often come with heavy fees and penalties to get out of them.
These products really only benefit the seller.
You should really try reading comprehension, and learn something:
MrMagic says
That's one area to be aware of, that they aren't loaded with fees and commissions. There are some that aren't like that, depends on the broker selling them. As always, buyer beware.
Do I need to type s l o w e r ?
Kakistocracy says
There are some annuities that are approaching somewhat reasonable in my book as far as fees, cashout etc. but those choices keep changing and require a lot of work and second and even third opinions to vet them and then weigh the opinions offered.
Someone really can't keep thoughts straight.
Which is it, are they all garbage and sold by crooks, or are there decent ones and people just need to be aware what they are buying?
What does Putin say?
80
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 18, 7:36pm
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 18, 7:36pm
HeadSet says
you are confused in fees. About 5%/yr is roughly the expected income for a 65 year old immediate annuity payment. It's more for men, less for women due to life expectancy.
Also, your scenario explains the value perfectly. About 35% of seniors will outlive the bank account. Noone outlives the annuity. The risk of running out of income at 85/90/95 and being left powerless to do anything about it... it's a fear that Trumps death itself for many seniors. Annuities remove that risk.
Forbes cites a typical example where one pays a $100,000 lump sum and then receives $416.67 per month until death, a "5% payout" annuity. This does not include any fees.
you are confused in fees. About 5%/yr is roughly the expected income for a 65 year old immediate annuity payment. It's more for men, less for women due to life expectancy.
Also, your scenario explains the value perfectly. About 35% of seniors will outlive the bank account. Noone outlives the annuity. The risk of running out of income at 85/90/95 and being left powerless to do anything about it... it's a fear that Trumps death itself for many seniors. Annuities remove that risk.
81
HeadSet
2019 Mar 18, 8:02pm
HeadSet
2019 Mar 18, 8:02pm
you are confused in fees.
No, I was using Forbe's definition. That is, the "payout" defined as the percentage paid out of the lump sum per anum, divided by 12 months. That is, 5% of $100,000 is $5,000, divided by twelve is that $416.67. Any fees would either come out of the lump sum up front, or out of each monthly payment.
About 5%/yr is roughly the expected income for a 65 year old immediate annuity payment. It's more for men, less for women due to life expectancy.
This sounds like you are talking about IRR. That is, the effective interest rate based on how many annuity payments were actually made, or guessed at based on an estimated life expectancy.
An annuity buyer needs a large sum up front. A saver who could acquire that kind of loot already knows how to invest and has little interest in an annuity. Therefore, the typical annuity buyer is a widow who just got a payout from her husband's life insurance. Since the widow is already late sixties early seventies anyway, she must decide if she realistically has another 20 years of life in order to make the annuity worthwhile.
No, I was using Forbe's definition. That is, the "payout" defined as the percentage paid out of the lump sum per anum, divided by 12 months. That is, 5% of $100,000 is $5,000, divided by twelve is that $416.67. Any fees would either come out of the lump sum up front, or out of each monthly payment.
About 5%/yr is roughly the expected income for a 65 year old immediate annuity payment. It's more for men, less for women due to life expectancy.
This sounds like you are talking about IRR. That is, the effective interest rate based on how many annuity payments were actually made, or guessed at based on an estimated life expectancy.
An annuity buyer needs a large sum up front. A saver who could acquire that kind of loot already knows how to invest and has little interest in an annuity. Therefore, the typical annuity buyer is a widow who just got a payout from her husband's life insurance. Since the widow is already late sixties early seventies anyway, she must decide if she realistically has another 20 years of life in order to make the annuity worthwhile.
82
HeadSet
2019 Mar 18, 8:05pm
HeadSet
2019 Mar 18, 8:05pm
Plus, that bank interest rate isn't guaranteed, so if you remember a few years back, savings accounts were paying 0.05%, where the annuity rate/payment always stays the same.
That is a double edge sword. When interests rates were .05%, annuity rates were piss poor as well. Buying an annuity would lock you into that low rate until you die, and you would have missed out in moving your money to the 2.5% MMA.
That is a double edge sword. When interests rates were .05%, annuity rates were piss poor as well. Buying an annuity would lock you into that low rate until you die, and you would have missed out in moving your money to the 2.5% MMA.
83
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 8:06pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 8:06pm
HeadSet says
Not accurate, and you proved that above based on your bank scenario. For the same sum of money, a bank account would run out, where an annuity would last a lifetime.
HeadSet says
Straw Man, people buy annuities at any age, not just widows.
An annuity buyer needs a large sum up front. A saver who could acquire that kind of loot already knows how to invest and has little interest in an annuity.
Not accurate, and you proved that above based on your bank scenario. For the same sum of money, a bank account would run out, where an annuity would last a lifetime.
HeadSet says
Therefore, the typical annuity buyer is a widow who just got a payout from her husband's life insurance. Since the widow is already late sixties early seventies anyway, she must decide if she realistically has another 20 years of life in order to make the annuity worthwhile.
Straw Man, people buy annuities at any age, not just widows.
84
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 18, 8:11pm
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 18, 8:11pm
HeadSet says
If a 60 to 65 year old with a $200k IRA has any perspective, they know they have no time for market risk.
"Knows how to invest" should mean removing a large portion of that IRA from market risk and guaranteeing income for life.
A saver who could acquire that kind of loot already knows how to invest and has little interest in an annuity.
If a 60 to 65 year old with a $200k IRA has any perspective, they know they have no time for market risk.
"Knows how to invest" should mean removing a large portion of that IRA from market risk and guaranteeing income for life.
85
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 8:12pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 8:12pm
HeadSet says
You missing the point again. Even at 2.5%, the money doesn't last a lifetime like an annuity does. You're getting caught up on a percentage and aren't understanding the long term aspects of LIFETIME. A low end annuity starts at around 2% - 3% and goes up. You'd have to go back decades to get that in a savings account, and then it was never guaranteed.
Plus, to earn enough in a savings account to last a lifetime, you'd need probably 3 times that rate of return, at least.
When interests rates were .05%, annuity rates were piss poor as well. Buying an annuity would lock you into that low rate until you die, and you would have missed out in moving your money to the 2.5% MMA.
You missing the point again. Even at 2.5%, the money doesn't last a lifetime like an annuity does. You're getting caught up on a percentage and aren't understanding the long term aspects of LIFETIME. A low end annuity starts at around 2% - 3% and goes up. You'd have to go back decades to get that in a savings account, and then it was never guaranteed.
Plus, to earn enough in a savings account to last a lifetime, you'd need probably 3 times that rate of return, at least.
86
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 18, 8:21pm
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 18, 8:21pm
HeadSet says
The typical annuity buyer is 55 to 70 years old, looking to protect against downside market risk and guarantee lifetime income as they transition into retirement.
This person usually has an IRA of between $50k and $500k, and rolls over 1/4 to 1/2 into an annuity.
Annuities are a specific tool used for specific purposes. If used properly an annuity is a great risk management option.
Therefore, the typical annuity buyer
The typical annuity buyer is 55 to 70 years old, looking to protect against downside market risk and guarantee lifetime income as they transition into retirement.
This person usually has an IRA of between $50k and $500k, and rolls over 1/4 to 1/2 into an annuity.
Annuities are a specific tool used for specific purposes. If used properly an annuity is a great risk management option.
87
komputodo
2019 Mar 18, 11:09pm
komputodo
2019 Mar 18, 11:09pm
Do you really believe that a financially poor senior in a 3rd world country who is surrounded by multiple children and many grandchildren thinks that he is living a horrible retirement?
OTOH, the american senior living in his mcmansion with 5 mil in retirement savings but has kids that dont want to even visit him because he never had time to pay attention to them when they were young is better off? Just sayin'
OTOH, the american senior living in his mcmansion with 5 mil in retirement savings but has kids that dont want to even visit him because he never had time to pay attention to them when they were young is better off? Just sayin'
88
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 3:42am
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 3:42am
Kakistocracy says
False. I do not have to accept YOUR reality.
Kakistocracy says
Lol. Ok.
Kakistocracy says
If you work hard, and live below your means - it's EASY to retire. Good grief.
Kakistocracy says
So that makes you 67?
That being said you have to accept the world is not fair, the rules are not fair and no one is looking out for you except yourself.
False. I do not have to accept YOUR reality.
Kakistocracy says
I am not your "bro" - thankfully - nor any type of relative which is even better
Lol. Ok.
Kakistocracy says
This is different than its "easy"
If you work hard, and live below your means - it's EASY to retire. Good grief.
Kakistocracy says
Not that is of any concern to you or the loud mouth from Jersey but my retirement is going just fine, just started year 10 and bailed at age 57 with no annuities as well.
So that makes you 67?
89
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 3:54am
joshuatrio says
No - it is not and you are welcome to accept whatever reality you see fit.
If you work hard, and live below your means - it's EASY to retire. Good grief.
No - it is not and you are welcome to accept whatever reality you see fit.
90
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 3:56am
CBOEtrader says
Sales pitch. Annuities are a gold mine for the seller and nothing like placing a bit of fear into a perspective buyer.
How about disclosing how illiquid these are, that they are not FDIC insured and what it takes to get out of one of them (how much money will be lost and what it will cost)
.
The typical annuity buyer is 55 to 70 years old, looking to protect against downside market risk and guarantee lifetime income as they transition into retirement.
This person usually has an IRA of between $50k and $500k, and rolls over 1/4 to 1/2 into an annuity.
Sales pitch. Annuities are a gold mine for the seller and nothing like placing a bit of fear into a perspective buyer.
How about disclosing how illiquid these are, that they are not FDIC insured and what it takes to get out of one of them (how much money will be lost and what it will cost)
.
91
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 3:58am
joshuatrio says
Yes - that would be correct. I was "funned" out at 57 after 30 years with my last company, 10 with U.S. Steel before that. I made a career change in my late 20s and started working at age 14.
So that makes you 67?
Yes - that would be correct. I was "funned" out at 57 after 30 years with my last company, 10 with U.S. Steel before that. I made a career change in my late 20s and started working at age 14.
92
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 4:01am
Ceffer says
That is why you have any work done for you vetted by others before signing and paying.
If a trust is undone by a discovered technicality
That is why you have any work done for you vetted by others before signing and paying.
93
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 4:02am
CBOEtrader says
For the people who can not balance a check book.
If used properly an annuity is a great risk management option.
For the people who can not balance a check book.
94
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 4:04am
MrMagic says
Total fucking bullshit of the depth and smell I can not even describe.
Once again the emptiest of heads speaks with the loudest of voices.
ANYONE can get ahead, and move up the ladder just by showing up to work and putting in a full 8 hours. ANYONE!
Total fucking bullshit of the depth and smell I can not even describe.
Once again the emptiest of heads speaks with the loudest of voices.
95
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 4:08am
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 4:08am
Kakistocracy says
Wrong again. You seem to miss the point, so lets reduce this for you.
You cant create the risk exposure of an annuity, without an annuity. If you want zero market risk and lifetime income, an annuity is perfect.
If you have different goals, such as short term liquidity, then look elsewhere.
If you are retired and still havent solved short term liquidity issues, then no investment is good for you. I have plenty of 800 numbers for the indigent that may help.
How about disclosing how illiquid these are, that they are not FDIC insured and what it takes to get out of one of them (how much money will be lost and what it will cost)
Wrong again. You seem to miss the point, so lets reduce this for you.
You cant create the risk exposure of an annuity, without an annuity. If you want zero market risk and lifetime income, an annuity is perfect.
If you have different goals, such as short term liquidity, then look elsewhere.
If you are retired and still havent solved short term liquidity issues, then no investment is good for you. I have plenty of 800 numbers for the indigent that may help.
96
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 4:13am
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 4:13am
Kakistocracy says
No that's called a target client. They are the ones, you know, who need the product. eye roll
Kakistocracy says
This is a forum discussion, not a disclosure. I'd be happy to post some pdf product guides if you like.
You are fundamentally missing the point. Meanwhile you are pinching pennies on hamburger meat and exposing yourself to market risk. You should probably listen to better advisors
Sales pitch.
No that's called a target client. They are the ones, you know, who need the product. eye roll
Kakistocracy says
How about disclosing how illiquid these are
This is a forum discussion, not a disclosure. I'd be happy to post some pdf product guides if you like.
You are fundamentally missing the point. Meanwhile you are pinching pennies on hamburger meat and exposing yourself to market risk. You should probably listen to better advisors
97
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 4:16am
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 4:16am
Kakistocracy says
Ok. What is your reality?
You feel you didn't get to a successful retirement? Yet everyones' prudent decisions are wrong, and only you have the best advisors.
^^something doesnt make sense here.
No - it is not and you are welcome to accept whatever reality you see fit.
Ok. What is your reality?
You feel you didn't get to a successful retirement? Yet everyones' prudent decisions are wrong, and only you have the best advisors.
^^something doesnt make sense here.
98
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 4:45am
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 4:45am
Kakistocracy says
That's awesome - and it's your hard work and saving that allowed you to retire.
Yes - that would be correct. I was "funned" out at 57 after 30 years with my last company, 10 with U.S. Steel before that. I made a career change in my late 20s and started working at age 14.
That's awesome - and it's your hard work and saving that allowed you to retire.
99
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 5:08am
98 CBOEtrader ignore (5) 2019 Mar 19, 4:08am ↑ like (0) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag
Kakistocracy says
How about disclosing how illiquid these are, that they are not FDIC insured and what it takes to get out of one of them (how much money will be lost and what it will cost)
Wrong again. You seem to miss the point, so lets reduce this for you.
You cant create the risk exposure of an annuity, without an annuity. If you want zero market risk and lifetime income, an annuity is perfect.
If you have different goals, such as short term liquidity, then look elsewhere.
If you are retired and still havent solved short term liquidity issues, then no investment is good for you. I have plenty of 800 numbers for the indigent that may help.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did not at any time say I have liquidity issues with my investments and no,I did not miss the point. I have heard it from many charlatans.
How can you claim zero market risk when the annuity is held by an insurance company, which have been known to fail, get bought out etc.
What I would like to hear from you which you keep avoiding is the big pain in the ass (both from a time and financial standpoint) it is to get out of an annuity, should you decide to alter your investment strategy.
Can you provide some disclosures on the costs and fees with that or is that something better left disclosed and buried in the legalese.
Kakistocracy says
How about disclosing how illiquid these are, that they are not FDIC insured and what it takes to get out of one of them (how much money will be lost and what it will cost)
Wrong again. You seem to miss the point, so lets reduce this for you.
You cant create the risk exposure of an annuity, without an annuity. If you want zero market risk and lifetime income, an annuity is perfect.
If you have different goals, such as short term liquidity, then look elsewhere.
If you are retired and still havent solved short term liquidity issues, then no investment is good for you. I have plenty of 800 numbers for the indigent that may help.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did not at any time say I have liquidity issues with my investments and no,I did not miss the point. I have heard it from many charlatans.
How can you claim zero market risk when the annuity is held by an insurance company, which have been known to fail, get bought out etc.
What I would like to hear from you which you keep avoiding is the big pain in the ass (both from a time and financial standpoint) it is to get out of an annuity, should you decide to alter your investment strategy.
Can you provide some disclosures on the costs and fees with that or is that something better left disclosed and buried in the legalese.
100
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 5:12am
joshuatrio says
To be perfectly honest is was my ability to constantly manipulate the people and conditions I was presented with at any given point in time (guess that requires some effort but after awhile it can be done by rote) plus being ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.
That's awesome - and it's your hard work and saving that allowed you to retire.
To be perfectly honest is was my ability to constantly manipulate the people and conditions I was presented with at any given point in time (guess that requires some effort but after awhile it can be done by rote) plus being ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.
101
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 5:19am
99 CBOEtrader ignore (5) 2019 Mar 19, 4:13am ↑ like (0) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag
Kakistocracy says
Sales pitch.
No that's called a target client. They are the ones, you know, who need the product. eye roll
Kakistocracy says
How about disclosing how illiquid these are
This is a forum discussion, not a disclosure. I'd be happy to post some pdf product guides if you like.
You are fundamentally missing the point. Meanwhile you are pinching pennies on hamburger meat and exposing yourself to market risk. You should probably listen to better advisors
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Target client are people who are waiting/willing/subject to be convinced they need to buy something they did not know they needed or wanted...
Never said I was pinching pennies on hamburger meat ( I can do better price per pound on other options) and I am can deal with market risk to a degree - I do not need a baby blanket.
No - I should not listen to someone whose only interest in seeing what they can do to get a commission or fee.
Too may people giving good advice away for free if you know where to look, who to ask and have the ability to think.
There is a reason people selling annuities are loathe to disclose the costs involved to get out of them. If this was spelled out clearly in simple terms - people would be running away
Kakistocracy says
Sales pitch.
No that's called a target client. They are the ones, you know, who need the product. eye roll
Kakistocracy says
How about disclosing how illiquid these are
This is a forum discussion, not a disclosure. I'd be happy to post some pdf product guides if you like.
You are fundamentally missing the point. Meanwhile you are pinching pennies on hamburger meat and exposing yourself to market risk. You should probably listen to better advisors
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Target client are people who are waiting/willing/subject to be convinced they need to buy something they did not know they needed or wanted...
Never said I was pinching pennies on hamburger meat ( I can do better price per pound on other options) and I am can deal with market risk to a degree - I do not need a baby blanket.
No - I should not listen to someone whose only interest in seeing what they can do to get a commission or fee.
Too may people giving good advice away for free if you know where to look, who to ask and have the ability to think.
There is a reason people selling annuities are loathe to disclose the costs involved to get out of them. If this was spelled out clearly in simple terms - people would be running away
102
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 5:36am
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 5:36am
Kakistocracy says
Work [manipulating people] + living below means/saving [ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.] = retirement.
You proved my point.
To be perfectly honest is was my ability to constantly manipulate the people and conditions I was presented with at any given point in time (guess that requires some effort but after awhile it can be done by rote) plus being ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.
Work [manipulating people] + living below means/saving [ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.] = retirement.
You proved my point.
103
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 7:02am
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 7:02am
Kakistocracy says
I have zero interest in a commission or fee from any efforts on pat.net . Or do you think I'm playing the long game, member since 2007? Lol. Dude I'm pointing out where you are wrong. Take the advice or not.
As far as minutiae, you are literally making up shit up. I've offered to share a brochure w you if you like. It's up to you. The forum doesnt want to hear the details.
Go back to posting full articles w zero input besides ad homs. Also called tuesday
No - I should not listen to someone whose only interest in seeing what they can do to get a commission or fee.
I have zero interest in a commission or fee from any efforts on pat.net . Or do you think I'm playing the long game, member since 2007? Lol. Dude I'm pointing out where you are wrong. Take the advice or not.
As far as minutiae, you are literally making up shit up. I've offered to share a brochure w you if you like. It's up to you. The forum doesnt want to hear the details.
Go back to posting full articles w zero input besides ad homs. Also called tuesday
104
MrMagic
2019 Mar 19, 9:17am
MrMagic
2019 Mar 19, 9:17am
joshuatrio says
Exactly..
That Kaki, such a honorable guy.
I wonder what the living conditions are like in that boarding house?
Work [manipulating people] + living below means/saving [ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.] = retirement.
You proved my point.
Exactly..
That Kaki, such a honorable guy.
I wonder what the living conditions are like in that boarding house?
105
AD
2019 Mar 19, 9:40am
AD
2019 Mar 19, 9:40am
Kakistocracy says
Plan carefully and maintain reasonable expectations.
Yes, there are some hapless people that fall for annuities and reverse mortgages. Or anyone else that shows up at a car lot and gets a bullshit leasing agreement.
If you need money and don't have home equity, then get a second (part time) job, or get a roommate to help pay for housing expenses. Never take on credit card debt since it will always charge at least 12% in interest annually.
Also never rule out trying to negotiate a better rate with the credit card company (i.e., agree to not add to balance if they reduce interest rate to below 6%).
If you need money and have home equity, then get a home equity loan and never a reverse mortgage.
Expect 7% annual growth per year in a relatively safe investment (i.e., Vanguard Lifestrategy Conservative Growth Fund, etc.), or 4% net growth if you subtract 3% annual inflation.
To be perfectly honest is was my ability to constantly manipulate the people and conditions I was presented with at any given point in time
Plan carefully and maintain reasonable expectations.
Yes, there are some hapless people that fall for annuities and reverse mortgages. Or anyone else that shows up at a car lot and gets a bullshit leasing agreement.
If you need money and don't have home equity, then get a second (part time) job, or get a roommate to help pay for housing expenses. Never take on credit card debt since it will always charge at least 12% in interest annually.
Also never rule out trying to negotiate a better rate with the credit card company (i.e., agree to not add to balance if they reduce interest rate to below 6%).
If you need money and have home equity, then get a home equity loan and never a reverse mortgage.
Expect 7% annual growth per year in a relatively safe investment (i.e., Vanguard Lifestrategy Conservative Growth Fund, etc.), or 4% net growth if you subtract 3% annual inflation.
106
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 9:54am
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 9:54am
AD says
Never? You cant think of any situations for any of the 300 million american consumers for whom a 12% short term loan isn't appropriate?
All these products are tools. Use them properly and they work.
Use a credit card for your bond portfolio capital and yo li have problems, ofc.
It's about proper application of the tools available. 12% short term credit card loans are perfect for some situations.
Never take on credit card debt since it will always charge at least 12% in interest annually.
Never? You cant think of any situations for any of the 300 million american consumers for whom a 12% short term loan isn't appropriate?
All these products are tools. Use them properly and they work.
Use a credit card for your bond portfolio capital and yo li have problems, ofc.
It's about proper application of the tools available. 12% short term credit card loans are perfect for some situations.
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And let’s face it: Who needs advice? Who wants to actually do something? Here are 20 ways to ignore the experts—and wreck your chances of a financially comfortable retirement:
1. Keep thinking retirement is so far in the future that there’s no need to act now. There’s still plenty of time. After all, you’re only [insert age].
2. Avoid saving when you’re young and instead play catch-up starting at age 50. At that juncture, the government allows you to save more in both employer plans and IRAs, so that must mean it’s OK to wait.
3. Bank on being able to work until age 75 or beyond.
4. Live for today, so you accumulate debt right up until the day you hope to retire.
5. Invest in individual stocks you pick personally. Almost as good: If offered a retirement plan at work, close your eyes and pick the three options that sound best.
6. Ignore all the retirement planning tools available to you. They’re just too time consuming.
7. Never contribute to your 401(k), because right now there are so many better uses for the cash. Can’t resist the savings urge? Make sure you contribute at a level where you don’t earn the full employer match.
8. Keep the same mix of investments at age 60 that you had at age 25. Change is not good.
9. Take your Social Security at age 62, needed or not. It’s your money. Grab it while you can.
10. Only save in tax-deductible accounts and don’t bother with the Roth, let alone taxable accounts. That way, you can spend your retirement paying ordinary income tax on all your investment gains.
11. Ignore the need to provide for survivors. Don’t designate beneficiaries for your 401(k) or IRA. Don’t bother with life insurance. Got a pension? Talk your spouse into agreeing to a single life annuity benefit. After all, it’s your pension, right?
12. Make sure all your savings are in tax-favored plans, so they aren’t easily accessible in an emergency. What about the income taxes and potential tax penalties? You worry too much.
13. Assume there will be a major drop in your spending when you retire. Make a list of all your expenses, just to be sure. Are things looking a little tight? For goodness’ sake, don’t tell your spouse.
14. Cancel that long-term-care policy you bought years ago. If you haven’t needed it so far, you likely never will—and, besides, you have plans for that premium refund.
15. You’ve been waiting so long to buy that boat or RV. You deserve it. And what do you know? It’s so easy to get a 401(k) loan.
16. Invest heavily in your employer’s stock. There’s no doubt it’s a good company—and not at all like Enron.
17. Don’t worry about inflation after you retire. It’s been low for years and no doubt it’ll stay that way.
18. When someone tries to explain the power of compounding, don’t bother listening to all that gobbledygook.
19. When there’s a big drop in the stock market, make sure you shift into bonds. There’s no point sitting around and losing everything.
20. Still got money left for retirement? Tell your adult kids you’re always willing to help them out financially.
21. Assume that you will never be the victim of a scam. Ignore the research indicating that 1 in 5 seniors is victimized - because you're far too smart to be 'taken.' Identity theft &/or fraud on your accounts could never happen to you. Added this one after reading the comments in the original article
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-20-step-guide-to-a-horrible-retirement-2019-03-16?mod=mw_theo_homepage
#Retirement #Economics