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A 21 step guide to a horrible retirement
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2019 Mar 17, 11:08am 6,302 views 121 comments
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80
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 18, 7:36pm
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 18, 7:36pm
HeadSet says
you are confused in fees. About 5%/yr is roughly the expected income for a 65 year old immediate annuity payment. It's more for men, less for women due to life expectancy.
Also, your scenario explains the value perfectly. About 35% of seniors will outlive the bank account. Noone outlives the annuity. The risk of running out of income at 85/90/95 and being left powerless to do anything about it... it's a fear that Trumps death itself for many seniors. Annuities remove that risk.
Forbes cites a typical example where one pays a $100,000 lump sum and then receives $416.67 per month until death, a "5% payout" annuity. This does not include any fees.
you are confused in fees. About 5%/yr is roughly the expected income for a 65 year old immediate annuity payment. It's more for men, less for women due to life expectancy.
Also, your scenario explains the value perfectly. About 35% of seniors will outlive the bank account. Noone outlives the annuity. The risk of running out of income at 85/90/95 and being left powerless to do anything about it... it's a fear that Trumps death itself for many seniors. Annuities remove that risk.
81
HeadSet
2019 Mar 18, 8:02pm
HeadSet
2019 Mar 18, 8:02pm
you are confused in fees.
No, I was using Forbe's definition. That is, the "payout" defined as the percentage paid out of the lump sum per anum, divided by 12 months. That is, 5% of $100,000 is $5,000, divided by twelve is that $416.67. Any fees would either come out of the lump sum up front, or out of each monthly payment.
About 5%/yr is roughly the expected income for a 65 year old immediate annuity payment. It's more for men, less for women due to life expectancy.
This sounds like you are talking about IRR. That is, the effective interest rate based on how many annuity payments were actually made, or guessed at based on an estimated life expectancy.
An annuity buyer needs a large sum up front. A saver who could acquire that kind of loot already knows how to invest and has little interest in an annuity. Therefore, the typical annuity buyer is a widow who just got a payout from her husband's life insurance. Since the widow is already late sixties early seventies anyway, she must decide if she realistically has another 20 years of life in order to make the annuity worthwhile.
No, I was using Forbe's definition. That is, the "payout" defined as the percentage paid out of the lump sum per anum, divided by 12 months. That is, 5% of $100,000 is $5,000, divided by twelve is that $416.67. Any fees would either come out of the lump sum up front, or out of each monthly payment.
About 5%/yr is roughly the expected income for a 65 year old immediate annuity payment. It's more for men, less for women due to life expectancy.
This sounds like you are talking about IRR. That is, the effective interest rate based on how many annuity payments were actually made, or guessed at based on an estimated life expectancy.
An annuity buyer needs a large sum up front. A saver who could acquire that kind of loot already knows how to invest and has little interest in an annuity. Therefore, the typical annuity buyer is a widow who just got a payout from her husband's life insurance. Since the widow is already late sixties early seventies anyway, she must decide if she realistically has another 20 years of life in order to make the annuity worthwhile.
82
HeadSet
2019 Mar 18, 8:05pm
HeadSet
2019 Mar 18, 8:05pm
Plus, that bank interest rate isn't guaranteed, so if you remember a few years back, savings accounts were paying 0.05%, where the annuity rate/payment always stays the same.
That is a double edge sword. When interests rates were .05%, annuity rates were piss poor as well. Buying an annuity would lock you into that low rate until you die, and you would have missed out in moving your money to the 2.5% MMA.
That is a double edge sword. When interests rates were .05%, annuity rates were piss poor as well. Buying an annuity would lock you into that low rate until you die, and you would have missed out in moving your money to the 2.5% MMA.
83
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 8:06pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 8:06pm
HeadSet says
Not accurate, and you proved that above based on your bank scenario. For the same sum of money, a bank account would run out, where an annuity would last a lifetime.
HeadSet says
Straw Man, people buy annuities at any age, not just widows.
An annuity buyer needs a large sum up front. A saver who could acquire that kind of loot already knows how to invest and has little interest in an annuity.
Not accurate, and you proved that above based on your bank scenario. For the same sum of money, a bank account would run out, where an annuity would last a lifetime.
HeadSet says
Therefore, the typical annuity buyer is a widow who just got a payout from her husband's life insurance. Since the widow is already late sixties early seventies anyway, she must decide if she realistically has another 20 years of life in order to make the annuity worthwhile.
Straw Man, people buy annuities at any age, not just widows.
84
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 18, 8:11pm
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 18, 8:11pm
HeadSet says
If a 60 to 65 year old with a $200k IRA has any perspective, they know they have no time for market risk.
"Knows how to invest" should mean removing a large portion of that IRA from market risk and guaranteeing income for life.
A saver who could acquire that kind of loot already knows how to invest and has little interest in an annuity.
If a 60 to 65 year old with a $200k IRA has any perspective, they know they have no time for market risk.
"Knows how to invest" should mean removing a large portion of that IRA from market risk and guaranteeing income for life.
85
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 8:12pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 18, 8:12pm
HeadSet says
You missing the point again. Even at 2.5%, the money doesn't last a lifetime like an annuity does. You're getting caught up on a percentage and aren't understanding the long term aspects of LIFETIME. A low end annuity starts at around 2% - 3% and goes up. You'd have to go back decades to get that in a savings account, and then it was never guaranteed.
Plus, to earn enough in a savings account to last a lifetime, you'd need probably 3 times that rate of return, at least.
When interests rates were .05%, annuity rates were piss poor as well. Buying an annuity would lock you into that low rate until you die, and you would have missed out in moving your money to the 2.5% MMA.
You missing the point again. Even at 2.5%, the money doesn't last a lifetime like an annuity does. You're getting caught up on a percentage and aren't understanding the long term aspects of LIFETIME. A low end annuity starts at around 2% - 3% and goes up. You'd have to go back decades to get that in a savings account, and then it was never guaranteed.
Plus, to earn enough in a savings account to last a lifetime, you'd need probably 3 times that rate of return, at least.
86
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 18, 8:21pm
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 18, 8:21pm
HeadSet says
The typical annuity buyer is 55 to 70 years old, looking to protect against downside market risk and guarantee lifetime income as they transition into retirement.
This person usually has an IRA of between $50k and $500k, and rolls over 1/4 to 1/2 into an annuity.
Annuities are a specific tool used for specific purposes. If used properly an annuity is a great risk management option.
Therefore, the typical annuity buyer
The typical annuity buyer is 55 to 70 years old, looking to protect against downside market risk and guarantee lifetime income as they transition into retirement.
This person usually has an IRA of between $50k and $500k, and rolls over 1/4 to 1/2 into an annuity.
Annuities are a specific tool used for specific purposes. If used properly an annuity is a great risk management option.
87
komputodo
2019 Mar 18, 11:09pm
komputodo
2019 Mar 18, 11:09pm
Do you really believe that a financially poor senior in a 3rd world country who is surrounded by multiple children and many grandchildren thinks that he is living a horrible retirement?
OTOH, the american senior living in his mcmansion with 5 mil in retirement savings but has kids that dont want to even visit him because he never had time to pay attention to them when they were young is better off? Just sayin'
OTOH, the american senior living in his mcmansion with 5 mil in retirement savings but has kids that dont want to even visit him because he never had time to pay attention to them when they were young is better off? Just sayin'
88
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 3:42am
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 3:42am
Kakistocracy says
False. I do not have to accept YOUR reality.
Kakistocracy says
Lol. Ok.
Kakistocracy says
If you work hard, and live below your means - it's EASY to retire. Good grief.
Kakistocracy says
So that makes you 67?
That being said you have to accept the world is not fair, the rules are not fair and no one is looking out for you except yourself.
False. I do not have to accept YOUR reality.
Kakistocracy says
I am not your "bro" - thankfully - nor any type of relative which is even better
Lol. Ok.
Kakistocracy says
This is different than its "easy"
If you work hard, and live below your means - it's EASY to retire. Good grief.
Kakistocracy says
Not that is of any concern to you or the loud mouth from Jersey but my retirement is going just fine, just started year 10 and bailed at age 57 with no annuities as well.
So that makes you 67?
89
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 3:54am
joshuatrio says
No - it is not and you are welcome to accept whatever reality you see fit.
If you work hard, and live below your means - it's EASY to retire. Good grief.
No - it is not and you are welcome to accept whatever reality you see fit.
90
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 3:56am
CBOEtrader says
Sales pitch. Annuities are a gold mine for the seller and nothing like placing a bit of fear into a perspective buyer.
How about disclosing how illiquid these are, that they are not FDIC insured and what it takes to get out of one of them (how much money will be lost and what it will cost)
.
The typical annuity buyer is 55 to 70 years old, looking to protect against downside market risk and guarantee lifetime income as they transition into retirement.
This person usually has an IRA of between $50k and $500k, and rolls over 1/4 to 1/2 into an annuity.
Sales pitch. Annuities are a gold mine for the seller and nothing like placing a bit of fear into a perspective buyer.
How about disclosing how illiquid these are, that they are not FDIC insured and what it takes to get out of one of them (how much money will be lost and what it will cost)
.
91
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 3:58am
joshuatrio says
Yes - that would be correct. I was "funned" out at 57 after 30 years with my last company, 10 with U.S. Steel before that. I made a career change in my late 20s and started working at age 14.
So that makes you 67?
Yes - that would be correct. I was "funned" out at 57 after 30 years with my last company, 10 with U.S. Steel before that. I made a career change in my late 20s and started working at age 14.
92
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 4:01am
Ceffer says
That is why you have any work done for you vetted by others before signing and paying.
If a trust is undone by a discovered technicality
That is why you have any work done for you vetted by others before signing and paying.
93
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 4:02am
CBOEtrader says
For the people who can not balance a check book.
If used properly an annuity is a great risk management option.
For the people who can not balance a check book.
94
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 4:04am
MrMagic says
Total fucking bullshit of the depth and smell I can not even describe.
Once again the emptiest of heads speaks with the loudest of voices.
ANYONE can get ahead, and move up the ladder just by showing up to work and putting in a full 8 hours. ANYONE!
Total fucking bullshit of the depth and smell I can not even describe.
Once again the emptiest of heads speaks with the loudest of voices.
95
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 4:08am
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 4:08am
Kakistocracy says
Wrong again. You seem to miss the point, so lets reduce this for you.
You cant create the risk exposure of an annuity, without an annuity. If you want zero market risk and lifetime income, an annuity is perfect.
If you have different goals, such as short term liquidity, then look elsewhere.
If you are retired and still havent solved short term liquidity issues, then no investment is good for you. I have plenty of 800 numbers for the indigent that may help.
How about disclosing how illiquid these are, that they are not FDIC insured and what it takes to get out of one of them (how much money will be lost and what it will cost)
Wrong again. You seem to miss the point, so lets reduce this for you.
You cant create the risk exposure of an annuity, without an annuity. If you want zero market risk and lifetime income, an annuity is perfect.
If you have different goals, such as short term liquidity, then look elsewhere.
If you are retired and still havent solved short term liquidity issues, then no investment is good for you. I have plenty of 800 numbers for the indigent that may help.
96
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 4:13am
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 4:13am
Kakistocracy says
No that's called a target client. They are the ones, you know, who need the product. eye roll
Kakistocracy says
This is a forum discussion, not a disclosure. I'd be happy to post some pdf product guides if you like.
You are fundamentally missing the point. Meanwhile you are pinching pennies on hamburger meat and exposing yourself to market risk. You should probably listen to better advisors
Sales pitch.
No that's called a target client. They are the ones, you know, who need the product. eye roll
Kakistocracy says
How about disclosing how illiquid these are
This is a forum discussion, not a disclosure. I'd be happy to post some pdf product guides if you like.
You are fundamentally missing the point. Meanwhile you are pinching pennies on hamburger meat and exposing yourself to market risk. You should probably listen to better advisors
97
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 4:16am
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 4:16am
Kakistocracy says
Ok. What is your reality?
You feel you didn't get to a successful retirement? Yet everyones' prudent decisions are wrong, and only you have the best advisors.
^^something doesnt make sense here.
No - it is not and you are welcome to accept whatever reality you see fit.
Ok. What is your reality?
You feel you didn't get to a successful retirement? Yet everyones' prudent decisions are wrong, and only you have the best advisors.
^^something doesnt make sense here.
98
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 4:45am
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 4:45am
Kakistocracy says
That's awesome - and it's your hard work and saving that allowed you to retire.
Yes - that would be correct. I was "funned" out at 57 after 30 years with my last company, 10 with U.S. Steel before that. I made a career change in my late 20s and started working at age 14.
That's awesome - and it's your hard work and saving that allowed you to retire.
99
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 5:08am
98 CBOEtrader ignore (5) 2019 Mar 19, 4:08am ↑ like (0) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag
Kakistocracy says
How about disclosing how illiquid these are, that they are not FDIC insured and what it takes to get out of one of them (how much money will be lost and what it will cost)
Wrong again. You seem to miss the point, so lets reduce this for you.
You cant create the risk exposure of an annuity, without an annuity. If you want zero market risk and lifetime income, an annuity is perfect.
If you have different goals, such as short term liquidity, then look elsewhere.
If you are retired and still havent solved short term liquidity issues, then no investment is good for you. I have plenty of 800 numbers for the indigent that may help.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did not at any time say I have liquidity issues with my investments and no,I did not miss the point. I have heard it from many charlatans.
How can you claim zero market risk when the annuity is held by an insurance company, which have been known to fail, get bought out etc.
What I would like to hear from you which you keep avoiding is the big pain in the ass (both from a time and financial standpoint) it is to get out of an annuity, should you decide to alter your investment strategy.
Can you provide some disclosures on the costs and fees with that or is that something better left disclosed and buried in the legalese.
Kakistocracy says
How about disclosing how illiquid these are, that they are not FDIC insured and what it takes to get out of one of them (how much money will be lost and what it will cost)
Wrong again. You seem to miss the point, so lets reduce this for you.
You cant create the risk exposure of an annuity, without an annuity. If you want zero market risk and lifetime income, an annuity is perfect.
If you have different goals, such as short term liquidity, then look elsewhere.
If you are retired and still havent solved short term liquidity issues, then no investment is good for you. I have plenty of 800 numbers for the indigent that may help.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did not at any time say I have liquidity issues with my investments and no,I did not miss the point. I have heard it from many charlatans.
How can you claim zero market risk when the annuity is held by an insurance company, which have been known to fail, get bought out etc.
What I would like to hear from you which you keep avoiding is the big pain in the ass (both from a time and financial standpoint) it is to get out of an annuity, should you decide to alter your investment strategy.
Can you provide some disclosures on the costs and fees with that or is that something better left disclosed and buried in the legalese.
100
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 5:12am
joshuatrio says
To be perfectly honest is was my ability to constantly manipulate the people and conditions I was presented with at any given point in time (guess that requires some effort but after awhile it can be done by rote) plus being ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.
That's awesome - and it's your hard work and saving that allowed you to retire.
To be perfectly honest is was my ability to constantly manipulate the people and conditions I was presented with at any given point in time (guess that requires some effort but after awhile it can be done by rote) plus being ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.
101
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 5:19am
99 CBOEtrader ignore (5) 2019 Mar 19, 4:13am ↑ like (0) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag
Kakistocracy says
Sales pitch.
No that's called a target client. They are the ones, you know, who need the product. eye roll
Kakistocracy says
How about disclosing how illiquid these are
This is a forum discussion, not a disclosure. I'd be happy to post some pdf product guides if you like.
You are fundamentally missing the point. Meanwhile you are pinching pennies on hamburger meat and exposing yourself to market risk. You should probably listen to better advisors
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Target client are people who are waiting/willing/subject to be convinced they need to buy something they did not know they needed or wanted...
Never said I was pinching pennies on hamburger meat ( I can do better price per pound on other options) and I am can deal with market risk to a degree - I do not need a baby blanket.
No - I should not listen to someone whose only interest in seeing what they can do to get a commission or fee.
Too may people giving good advice away for free if you know where to look, who to ask and have the ability to think.
There is a reason people selling annuities are loathe to disclose the costs involved to get out of them. If this was spelled out clearly in simple terms - people would be running away
Kakistocracy says
Sales pitch.
No that's called a target client. They are the ones, you know, who need the product. eye roll
Kakistocracy says
How about disclosing how illiquid these are
This is a forum discussion, not a disclosure. I'd be happy to post some pdf product guides if you like.
You are fundamentally missing the point. Meanwhile you are pinching pennies on hamburger meat and exposing yourself to market risk. You should probably listen to better advisors
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Target client are people who are waiting/willing/subject to be convinced they need to buy something they did not know they needed or wanted...
Never said I was pinching pennies on hamburger meat ( I can do better price per pound on other options) and I am can deal with market risk to a degree - I do not need a baby blanket.
No - I should not listen to someone whose only interest in seeing what they can do to get a commission or fee.
Too may people giving good advice away for free if you know where to look, who to ask and have the ability to think.
There is a reason people selling annuities are loathe to disclose the costs involved to get out of them. If this was spelled out clearly in simple terms - people would be running away
102
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 5:36am
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 5:36am
Kakistocracy says
Work [manipulating people] + living below means/saving [ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.] = retirement.
You proved my point.
To be perfectly honest is was my ability to constantly manipulate the people and conditions I was presented with at any given point in time (guess that requires some effort but after awhile it can be done by rote) plus being ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.
Work [manipulating people] + living below means/saving [ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.] = retirement.
You proved my point.
103
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 7:02am
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 7:02am
Kakistocracy says
I have zero interest in a commission or fee from any efforts on pat.net . Or do you think I'm playing the long game, member since 2007? Lol. Dude I'm pointing out where you are wrong. Take the advice or not.
As far as minutiae, you are literally making up shit up. I've offered to share a brochure w you if you like. It's up to you. The forum doesnt want to hear the details.
Go back to posting full articles w zero input besides ad homs. Also called tuesday
No - I should not listen to someone whose only interest in seeing what they can do to get a commission or fee.
I have zero interest in a commission or fee from any efforts on pat.net . Or do you think I'm playing the long game, member since 2007? Lol. Dude I'm pointing out where you are wrong. Take the advice or not.
As far as minutiae, you are literally making up shit up. I've offered to share a brochure w you if you like. It's up to you. The forum doesnt want to hear the details.
Go back to posting full articles w zero input besides ad homs. Also called tuesday
104
MrMagic
2019 Mar 19, 9:17am
MrMagic
2019 Mar 19, 9:17am
joshuatrio says
Exactly..
That Kaki, such a honorable guy.
I wonder what the living conditions are like in that boarding house?
Work [manipulating people] + living below means/saving [ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.] = retirement.
You proved my point.
Exactly..
That Kaki, such a honorable guy.
I wonder what the living conditions are like in that boarding house?
105
AD
2019 Mar 19, 9:40am
AD
2019 Mar 19, 9:40am
Kakistocracy says
Plan carefully and maintain reasonable expectations.
Yes, there are some hapless people that fall for annuities and reverse mortgages. Or anyone else that shows up at a car lot and gets a bullshit leasing agreement.
If you need money and don't have home equity, then get a second (part time) job, or get a roommate to help pay for housing expenses. Never take on credit card debt since it will always charge at least 12% in interest annually.
Also never rule out trying to negotiate a better rate with the credit card company (i.e., agree to not add to balance if they reduce interest rate to below 6%).
If you need money and have home equity, then get a home equity loan and never a reverse mortgage.
Expect 7% annual growth per year in a relatively safe investment (i.e., Vanguard Lifestrategy Conservative Growth Fund, etc.), or 4% net growth if you subtract 3% annual inflation.
To be perfectly honest is was my ability to constantly manipulate the people and conditions I was presented with at any given point in time
Plan carefully and maintain reasonable expectations.
Yes, there are some hapless people that fall for annuities and reverse mortgages. Or anyone else that shows up at a car lot and gets a bullshit leasing agreement.
If you need money and don't have home equity, then get a second (part time) job, or get a roommate to help pay for housing expenses. Never take on credit card debt since it will always charge at least 12% in interest annually.
Also never rule out trying to negotiate a better rate with the credit card company (i.e., agree to not add to balance if they reduce interest rate to below 6%).
If you need money and have home equity, then get a home equity loan and never a reverse mortgage.
Expect 7% annual growth per year in a relatively safe investment (i.e., Vanguard Lifestrategy Conservative Growth Fund, etc.), or 4% net growth if you subtract 3% annual inflation.
106
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 9:54am
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 9:54am
AD says
Never? You cant think of any situations for any of the 300 million american consumers for whom a 12% short term loan isn't appropriate?
All these products are tools. Use them properly and they work.
Use a credit card for your bond portfolio capital and yo li have problems, ofc.
It's about proper application of the tools available. 12% short term credit card loans are perfect for some situations.
Never take on credit card debt since it will always charge at least 12% in interest annually.
Never? You cant think of any situations for any of the 300 million american consumers for whom a 12% short term loan isn't appropriate?
All these products are tools. Use them properly and they work.
Use a credit card for your bond portfolio capital and yo li have problems, ofc.
It's about proper application of the tools available. 12% short term credit card loans are perfect for some situations.
107
AD
2019 Mar 19, 10:07am
AD
2019 Mar 19, 10:07am
CBOEtrader says
I never was in need for a short term loan.
Yes, I agree doing the right thing right such as use the right tool at the right time for the right job. Right ?
You cant think of any situations for any of the 300 million american consumers for whom a 12% short term loan isn't appropriate?
I never was in need for a short term loan.
Yes, I agree doing the right thing right such as use the right tool at the right time for the right job. Right ?
108
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 11:34am
joshuatrio says
Per the I proved your point - no, I didn't. As noted above the statement was work hard.
Manipulating people and the conditions around me to benefit me, not someone or something else is not work (at least not for me, it is actually boring even with the little effort I had to sometimes use). Work types are far too predictable, same with the rules - it's like they all come from the same factory.
As for the respondent from Jersey - never said I was honorable but I am honest.
You can either make the rules and conditions around you work in your benefit and work for you - or be ruled by an work for the benefit of the rules and rule makers.
This is something I learned before high school - deal with what you can not change until you can figure out a way to manipulate it.
Once you start putting together a "toolbox" if you will, of techniques on manipulation and have a good assortment - the rest is easy.
Retirement is simple. Work hard, live below your means & save.
Per the I proved your point - no, I didn't. As noted above the statement was work hard.
Manipulating people and the conditions around me to benefit me, not someone or something else is not work (at least not for me, it is actually boring even with the little effort I had to sometimes use). Work types are far too predictable, same with the rules - it's like they all come from the same factory.
As for the respondent from Jersey - never said I was honorable but I am honest.
You can either make the rules and conditions around you work in your benefit and work for you - or be ruled by an work for the benefit of the rules and rule makers.
This is something I learned before high school - deal with what you can not change until you can figure out a way to manipulate it.
Once you start putting together a "toolbox" if you will, of techniques on manipulation and have a good assortment - the rest is easy.
109
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 11:46am
CBOEtrader says
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never said you were trying to milk the crowd on the forum - that was your spin - again - as usual.
You have yet to point out where I am wrong especially with the fees and costs and what a gigantic pain in the ass it is to get out from under an annuity.
Instead you hide like a child behind the excuse machine, "the forum doesn't want to hear this" or "I offered to send a brochure" bullshit.
Why not man up and let everyone know just how badly they will get fucked if they try to get out from under an annuity along with those marvelous "projected" rates of returns on a lot of them.
Then let everyone know how the salespeople get that Mark Dice look of amazement on their faces when confronted by purchasers - that one he makes when Alex Jones shoves his dick up his ass.
Why put input when it will be defined for me by the attack gang. The gang is quite adept at taking things our of context, spinning and outright lying along with deleting entire posts and comments.
I have zero interest in a commission or fee from any efforts on pat.net . Or do you think I'm playing the long game, member since 2007? Lol. Dude I'm pointing out where you are wrong. Take the advice or not.
As far as minutiae, you are literally making up shit up. I've offered to share a brochure w you if you like. It's up to you. The forum doesnt want to hear the details.
Go back to posting full articles w zero input besides ad homs. Also called tuesday
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never said you were trying to milk the crowd on the forum - that was your spin - again - as usual.
You have yet to point out where I am wrong especially with the fees and costs and what a gigantic pain in the ass it is to get out from under an annuity.
Instead you hide like a child behind the excuse machine, "the forum doesn't want to hear this" or "I offered to send a brochure" bullshit.
Why not man up and let everyone know just how badly they will get fucked if they try to get out from under an annuity along with those marvelous "projected" rates of returns on a lot of them.
Then let everyone know how the salespeople get that Mark Dice look of amazement on their faces when confronted by purchasers - that one he makes when Alex Jones shoves his dick up his ass.
Why put input when it will be defined for me by the attack gang. The gang is quite adept at taking things our of context, spinning and outright lying along with deleting entire posts and comments.
110
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 12:23pm
As far as manipulation, Moi has done nothing different than the individual at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue currently imitating a head of state (failing miserably as well I might add on that imitation) but on a much smaller scale.
Use or be used. Work smart, not hard and delegate. Make the direct reports feel they are valued.
Use or be used. Work smart, not hard and delegate. Make the direct reports feel they are valued.
111
AD
2019 Mar 19, 12:25pm
AD
2019 Mar 19, 12:25pm
Kakistocracy says
Spoken like a neo-bolshevik or a cynical neo-marxist. Or maybe some Democrat hack sitting in some Deep State career analyst job.
Work smart, not hard and delegate. Make the direct reports feel they are valued.
Spoken like a neo-bolshevik or a cynical neo-marxist. Or maybe some Democrat hack sitting in some Deep State career analyst job.
112
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 1:14pm
CBOEtrader
2019 Mar 19, 1:14pm
Kakistocracy says
You start a conversation, then reject everthing anyone says of value. You turn even the most mundane interaction into an argument.
This appears to be the behavior of a very sad, angry man. Not something I nor anyone else can help
You have yet to point out where I am wrong
You start a conversation, then reject everthing anyone says of value. You turn even the most mundane interaction into an argument.
This appears to be the behavior of a very sad, angry man. Not something I nor anyone else can help
113
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 1:15pm
joshuatrio
2019 Mar 19, 1:15pm
Kakistocracy says
You did prove my point. You're trying to strawman your way out of this.
joshuatrio says
Kakistocracy says
Sorry man. But that sounds like hard work. You woke up everyday, and went to the same miserable workplace for 30 years, working for someone else, so that you could retire. Which you did, because you worked hard and lived below your means.
That sounds like a shitty existence. Not necessarily because of your job, but your attitude towards your line of work. It sounds like you just wasted the last 30+ years of your life away doing something you hated [manipulating people to achieve results].
Per the I proved your point - no, I didn't. As noted above the statement was work hard.
You did prove my point. You're trying to strawman your way out of this.
joshuatrio says
Work [manipulating people] + living below means/saving [ridiculously averse to spending on things that did not add value.] = retirement.
Kakistocracy says
Yes - that would be correct. I was "funned" out at 57 after 30 years with my last company, 10 with U.S. Steel before that. I made a career change in my late 20s and started working at age 14.
Sorry man. But that sounds like hard work. You woke up everyday, and went to the same miserable workplace for 30 years, working for someone else, so that you could retire. Which you did, because you worked hard and lived below your means.
That sounds like a shitty existence. Not necessarily because of your job, but your attitude towards your line of work. It sounds like you just wasted the last 30+ years of your life away doing something you hated [manipulating people to achieve results].
114
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 1:58pm
114 CBOEtrader ignore (5) 2019 Mar 19, 1:14pm ↑ like (1) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag
Kakistocracy says
You have yet to point out where I am wrong
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You start a conversation, then reject everthing anyone says of value. You turn even the most mundane interaction into an argument.
This appears to be the behavior of a very sad, angry man. Not something I nor anyone else can help
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The mundane into an argument is the hallmark of the attack gang and if I may be so bold, take a good hard look at your comment history before throwing any accustations around. A good hard look.
Then look into the mirror for that of which you accuse others.
Same with the rejection of anything of value - these are the hallmarks of the 3Ps.
Position, Person and Politics, attack each one or all at once but attack and deflect
Now once again how about disclosing even in general terms just how badly someone gets fucked over when they try to get out from under an annunity. Some are much worse than the others - much worse.
This is part of the conversation with someone who sells this shit that brings rapid deflection, excuses and or silence.
Kakistocracy says
You have yet to point out where I am wrong
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You start a conversation, then reject everthing anyone says of value. You turn even the most mundane interaction into an argument.
This appears to be the behavior of a very sad, angry man. Not something I nor anyone else can help
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The mundane into an argument is the hallmark of the attack gang and if I may be so bold, take a good hard look at your comment history before throwing any accustations around. A good hard look.
Then look into the mirror for that of which you accuse others.
Same with the rejection of anything of value - these are the hallmarks of the 3Ps.
Position, Person and Politics, attack each one or all at once but attack and deflect
Now once again how about disclosing even in general terms just how badly someone gets fucked over when they try to get out from under an annunity. Some are much worse than the others - much worse.
This is part of the conversation with someone who sells this shit that brings rapid deflection, excuses and or silence.
115
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 2:12pm
joshuatrio says
No, never checked into the "same place" everyday for 30 years. 50% travel and sometimes more along with multiple cross country moves and long term TDY assignments.
I did not work for anyone, I did work with people. The work was interesting - it was the people that were not for the most part.
Working for someone - I left that to those that think I really did do that when the reality was significantly different but if it made them feel good - all part of the grand scheme .
Manipulation is very easy - as I told you it's actually boring after awhile.
"It sounds like" - that is projection and assumption. You have no idea if I wasted my life or not since you know nothing of my values and what I was able to do without having to work hard.
My attitude - do as little as possible to achieve your end goals and with your free time do what actually makes you happy.
Why work hard when you can find someone else to do your hard work for you.
Hence my mascot:
Sorry man. But that sounds like hard work. You woke up everyday, and went to the same miserable workplace for 30 years, working for someone else, so that you could retire. Which you did, because you worked hard and lived below your means.
That sounds like a shitty existence. Not necessarily because of your job, but your attitude towards your line of work. It sounds like you just wasted the last 30+ years of your life away doing something you hated [manipulating people to achieve results].
No, never checked into the "same place" everyday for 30 years. 50% travel and sometimes more along with multiple cross country moves and long term TDY assignments.
I did not work for anyone, I did work with people. The work was interesting - it was the people that were not for the most part.
Working for someone - I left that to those that think I really did do that when the reality was significantly different but if it made them feel good - all part of the grand scheme .
Manipulation is very easy - as I told you it's actually boring after awhile.
"It sounds like" - that is projection and assumption. You have no idea if I wasted my life or not since you know nothing of my values and what I was able to do without having to work hard.
My attitude - do as little as possible to achieve your end goals and with your free time do what actually makes you happy.
Why work hard when you can find someone else to do your hard work for you.
Hence my mascot:
116
AD
2019 Mar 19, 2:16pm
AD
2019 Mar 19, 2:16pm
Kakistocracy says
The only thing I can think of is that the FBI or law enforcement community would investigate this as fraudulent penalties and fees since they are that excessive.
I think they call them "surrender charges" for an insurance annuity and usually they are up to 10% if you decide to cash out in the first year.
https://www.thebalance.com/what-are-surrender-charges-2389029
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/122414/are-there-penalties-withdrawing-monies-invested-annuities.asp
Now once again how about disclosing even in general terms just how badly someone gets fucked over when they try to get out from under an annunity. Some are much worse than the others - much worse.
The only thing I can think of is that the FBI or law enforcement community would investigate this as fraudulent penalties and fees since they are that excessive.
I think they call them "surrender charges" for an insurance annuity and usually they are up to 10% if you decide to cash out in the first year.
https://www.thebalance.com/what-are-surrender-charges-2389029
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/122414/are-there-penalties-withdrawing-monies-invested-annuities.asp
117
AD
2019 Mar 19, 2:17pm
AD
2019 Mar 19, 2:17pm
Kakistocracy says
This is domestic (i.e, AntiFa, Democrat Socialist, etc.) satire or this is some satire from a foreign actor (i.e., Moscow, Beijing, etc.).
My attitude - do as little as possible to achieve your end goals and with your free time do what actually makes you happy.
Why work hard when you can find someone else to do your hard work for you.
This is domestic (i.e, AntiFa, Democrat Socialist, etc.) satire or this is some satire from a foreign actor (i.e., Moscow, Beijing, etc.).
118
anonymous
2019 Mar 19, 2:25pm
119 AD ignore (0) 2019 Mar 19, 2:17pm ↑ like (0) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag
Kakistocracy says
My attitude - do as little as possible to achieve your end goals and with your free time do what actually makes you happy.
Why work hard when you can find someone else to do your hard work for you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is domestic (i.e, AntiFa, Democrat Socialist, etc.) satire or this is some satire from a foreign actor (i.e., Moscow, Beijing, etc.).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have read Tom Sawyer and the gambit about painting the fence ?
No satire at all. I enjoy hard work as long as someone else is doing it - myself not so much.
Therefore the need to work smart, not hard and get others to do what you don't feel like or want to.
Delegate, delegate, delegate and get people on board with your scheme with the stakeholder - ownership spiel.
Toss out a few 50 or 100 dollar bonuses every now and then and a few free meals.
By the time most people catch on - you've been promoted and transferred for your hard work.
Kakistocracy says
My attitude - do as little as possible to achieve your end goals and with your free time do what actually makes you happy.
Why work hard when you can find someone else to do your hard work for you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is domestic (i.e, AntiFa, Democrat Socialist, etc.) satire or this is some satire from a foreign actor (i.e., Moscow, Beijing, etc.).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have read Tom Sawyer and the gambit about painting the fence ?
No satire at all. I enjoy hard work as long as someone else is doing it - myself not so much.
Therefore the need to work smart, not hard and get others to do what you don't feel like or want to.
Delegate, delegate, delegate and get people on board with your scheme with the stakeholder - ownership spiel.
Toss out a few 50 or 100 dollar bonuses every now and then and a few free meals.
By the time most people catch on - you've been promoted and transferred for your hard work.
119
MrMagic
2019 Mar 19, 3:14pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 19, 3:14pm
Kakistocracy says
Well, we know that's not your wife, apparently you can't have one where you live "inside".
Hence my mascot:
Well, we know that's not your wife, apparently you can't have one where you live "inside".
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And let’s face it: Who needs advice? Who wants to actually do something? Here are 20 ways to ignore the experts—and wreck your chances of a financially comfortable retirement:
1. Keep thinking retirement is so far in the future that there’s no need to act now. There’s still plenty of time. After all, you’re only [insert age].
2. Avoid saving when you’re young and instead play catch-up starting at age 50. At that juncture, the government allows you to save more in both employer plans and IRAs, so that must mean it’s OK to wait.
3. Bank on being able to work until age 75 or beyond.
4. Live for today, so you accumulate debt right up until the day you hope to retire.
5. Invest in individual stocks you pick personally. Almost as good: If offered a retirement plan at work, close your eyes and pick the three options that sound best.
6. Ignore all the retirement planning tools available to you. They’re just too time consuming.
7. Never contribute to your 401(k), because right now there are so many better uses for the cash. Can’t resist the savings urge? Make sure you contribute at a level where you don’t earn the full employer match.
8. Keep the same mix of investments at age 60 that you had at age 25. Change is not good.
9. Take your Social Security at age 62, needed or not. It’s your money. Grab it while you can.
10. Only save in tax-deductible accounts and don’t bother with the Roth, let alone taxable accounts. That way, you can spend your retirement paying ordinary income tax on all your investment gains.
11. Ignore the need to provide for survivors. Don’t designate beneficiaries for your 401(k) or IRA. Don’t bother with life insurance. Got a pension? Talk your spouse into agreeing to a single life annuity benefit. After all, it’s your pension, right?
12. Make sure all your savings are in tax-favored plans, so they aren’t easily accessible in an emergency. What about the income taxes and potential tax penalties? You worry too much.
13. Assume there will be a major drop in your spending when you retire. Make a list of all your expenses, just to be sure. Are things looking a little tight? For goodness’ sake, don’t tell your spouse.
14. Cancel that long-term-care policy you bought years ago. If you haven’t needed it so far, you likely never will—and, besides, you have plans for that premium refund.
15. You’ve been waiting so long to buy that boat or RV. You deserve it. And what do you know? It’s so easy to get a 401(k) loan.
16. Invest heavily in your employer’s stock. There’s no doubt it’s a good company—and not at all like Enron.
17. Don’t worry about inflation after you retire. It’s been low for years and no doubt it’ll stay that way.
18. When someone tries to explain the power of compounding, don’t bother listening to all that gobbledygook.
19. When there’s a big drop in the stock market, make sure you shift into bonds. There’s no point sitting around and losing everything.
20. Still got money left for retirement? Tell your adult kids you’re always willing to help them out financially.
21. Assume that you will never be the victim of a scam. Ignore the research indicating that 1 in 5 seniors is victimized - because you're far too smart to be 'taken.' Identity theft &/or fraud on your accounts could never happen to you. Added this one after reading the comments in the original article
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-20-step-guide-to-a-horrible-retirement-2019-03-16?mod=mw_theo_homepage
#Retirement #Economics