patrick.net

@Patrick,
Although these charts may project doomsday picture for US.
.. But China did this with tri-evils.
1) Using humans/inmates as "cheap forced labor" and curtailing all human rights.
2) Polluting their country beyond repair.
3) Fastest growth in debt and creating a unbalanced economy where disproportionately spend on production while consumers suffer. It shows typical sign of "elite's ego" over public welfare trait of communism. In future they will need more and more debt to sustain their economy build over production to create same output as before.

Now US elites sold to CCP is real problem, But not the trade.China bubble will burst.
The environment and debt cleanup will be painful for china especially when it age.

See How the non-financial debt is growing in china vs the US. This is all going in factories.
The issue is that even with china fast GDP growth(which is achieved by debt) the debt-to-GDP is growing fast.
Imagine what will happen when the "debt drug" is not available to this patient to grow GDP fast

This is communism at its best....

China GDP was around 2.8T around 2006 and now 15T.
So factory debt debt was: $2.8T(100% of GDP)
Now it is 190% of GDP at 15T, So around 30T factory debt.
This is level of money they put in factories and now looking for "belt and road" or some shitty other measures to somehow fill these factories with orders from developing nations. Developing nations have no money, so they have to provide "consumer debt" .. which they can never pay. China will try to seize some of their prized assets and then will open conflict with 100s of countries... needing more debt to quell it.It is communist imperialism.

https://stanfordreview.org/stanford-chinese-donors/

Stanford Should Disclose The Names of Chinese Donors

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/top-trading-partner-of-every-u-s-state/

And in the other direction:

Cool graphs.
US wealth is around $120T. I think trade imbalance is minor as long as we can get honest politicians who are patriotic Americans.
China can "tire" its masses for peanuts.
It is estimated that China only makes $8.46 for each iPhone made.. out of $1200+.

I wonder what Nevada exports to Switzerland; gold and silver?
The maps are interesting.

clambo says

I wonder what Nevada exports to Switzerland; gold and silver?
The maps are interesting.

IL is probably Catepillar sending machines up to Canada. Not sure if McDonalds is popular up in Canda either. I'm sure there's other industry, but those have to be the biggies.

Nice graphs.

Mexico both for import and export for us. Makes sense...

https://www.ntd.com/doj-drops-charges-against-5-researchers-accused-of-hiding-chinese-military-affiliations-report_648483.html?utm_source=patrick.net&utm_medium=patrick.net&utm_campaign=patrick.net

DOJ Drops Charges Against 5 Researchers Accused of Hiding Chinese Military Affiliations

I feel like a british citizen circa 1890. "yeah, that upstart USA might be a problem for us at some point, but we have the reserve currency so we're golden".

There is nothing I like about China but I'd be a fool to ignore it from an investing standpoint. Having said that, China stawks are getting killed this year.

HunterTits says

China is toast despite what the media or trade balances say

Why do you think so @HunterTits ?

farmer2021 says

@Patrick,
Although these charts may project doomsday picture for US.
.. But China did this with tri-evils.
1) Using humans/inmates as "cheap forced labor" and curtailing all human rights.

There was a time that Western nations wouldn't trade with Communist nations for precisely this reason. This policy reversed once the USSR collapsed.

Patrick says

HunterTits says

China is toast despite what the media or trade balances say

Why do you think so @HunterTits ?

You have to see where all the "debt" is going.In the end "debt mountain" will collapse as it is used for useless temporary stuff not to build long lasting infrstructure.
In the end like Hindoo, CCP guys will run to Europe or USA where they are hiding their wealth.
It is immoral for "USA or other western" nations to let CCP guys steal the wealth of poor Chinese. Unfortunately Darwin reigns supreme and there is no justice for weak.
https://patrick.net/post/1340293/2021-07-27-china-poor-construction-interesting-vid

richwicks says

There was a time that Western nations wouldn't trade with Communist nations for precisely this reason. This policy reversed once the USSR collapsed.

Eh? US and Western Europe have never stopped trading with Commies. US was selling car plants and power generators to Stalin while he was killing millions. What do you think Soviet cars and trucks made by GAZ plant were? Fucking Fords to a last fucking bolt! The most successful Soviet tank of WWII? Based on design bought from American engineer J.W.Christie. After the war they again were buying automotive plants from the West (FIAT), grain from US and Canada and selling oil and gas to Western Europe. Jet engines in MIG-15 fighting our Sabres in Korea? Rolls-Royce.

It never stopped.

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

There was a time that Western nations wouldn't trade with Communist nations for precisely this reason. This policy reversed once the USSR collapsed.

Eh? US and Western Europe have never stopped trading with Commies. US was selling car plants and power generators to Stalin while he was killing millions. What do you think Soviet cars and trucks made by GAZ plant were? Fucking Fords to a last fucking bolt! The most successful Soviet tank of WWII? Based on design bought from American engineer J.W.Christie. After the war they again were buying automotive plants from the West (FIAT), grain from US and Canada and selling oil and gas to Western Europe. It never stopped.

Elites and people in power are equally immoral everywhere.
In the in wars etc. only the commoners suffer. It is best to not hate your "fellow human commoner" for whatever reason.
In most cases he is just brainwashed to do bidding of elites.

farmer2021 says

Unfortunately Darwin reigns supreme and their is no justice for weak.

If you are weak, you must be wise. This is the way things have naturally played out forever in human societies.

But socialism breaks that natural law, allowing the weak to be wildly successful by flaunting their weakness and creating mass numbers of their own kind all supported by the collective of productive workers. It’s not a system that can ever work for very long.

Shaman says

farmer2021 says

Unfortunately Darwin reigns supreme and their is no justice for weak.

If you are weak, you must be wise. This is the way things have naturally played out forever in human societies.

But socialism breaks that natural law, allowing the weak to be wildly successful by flaunting their weakness and creating mass numbers of their own kind all supported by the collective of productive workers. It’s not a system that can ever work for very long.

America or as a matter of fact no country is totally capitalist or socialist.
Honesty of leaders is most important trait for success. South Korea and Singapore were widely successful with semi-autocracy to set their country on success path as leaders were highly motivated.

I think if we leave weak behind, we are no longer a country and will be messed soon by outsiders.
You can see how CCP is manipulating us due to significant "poverty" created by elites in midwest whites and also inner city non-whites.

Ban slave made products.

Refuse entry of slave-made products' shipping into US ports.

Arm everyone in Hong Kong with M134 and a million rounds of ammo each.

No one in China wants to fuck because FUCK!, they're in China!

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57979857

The Nasdaq Golden Dragon China Index, which follows the 98 biggest US-listed Chinese stocks, has fallen by almost 15% in the last two trading sessions.

The index has now plummeted by more than 45% since hitting a record high in February.

The slump comes after a series of crackdowns by Beijing on its technology and education industries.

This has led to around $770bn (£556bn) being wiped off the value of US-listed Chinese stocks in the last five months alone.

Any private company in China can be taken over or shut down at any moment by the CCP.

It is not safe to do business in China.

HunterTits says

Patrick says

Any private company in China can be taken over or shut down at any moment by the CCP.

In this case I bet the firms referred to were scams that didn't pay off the right CCP people, so were shut down. Or their gigs were up and the public found out. Same result. Not really different than how things operate here, when you think of it.

https://youtu.be/_jRco70pl90
China has no private sector or stock market. It is facade by CCP to steal technology from west by bribing our elites in name of "fake corporate sector".
CCP is too incompetent to let any private enterprise compete with it. It is a war mongering cult trying hegemony over world.

As soon as CCP plan to "dominate" get threatened, some private companies will pay.
e.g.
Need for more kids to slave in future. Ban the "private tutoring" to reduce childcare costs: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/26/business/china-private-education.html
(Forced pregnancies are coming soon, May be more efficient artificial insemination like cattle)

Alibaba communist is under house arrest or something I believe. He was becoming too uppity for CCP.
They are clipping "DiDi" and other companies wings. Private sector is arm of communist party to gain wealth.

CCP agents are always funny.
You don't grow your "debt" multiple times in decade for nothing.

https://twitter.com/ruima/status/1420060835313971200
China wants to be a manufacturing-based superpower, not a financialized one (like the US).

Very few understand this.
(Which is bizarre, since it's all the gov't talks about.)

farmer2021 says

China wants to be a manufacturing-based superpower, not a financialized one (like the US).

The Chinese are pretty smart. That's why they got all the factories. That's what gives them power over America now.

Patrick says

farmer2021 says

China wants to be a manufacturing-based superpower, not a financialized one (like the US).

The Chinese are pretty smart. That's why they got all the factories. That's what gives them power over America now.

There is no doubt that chinese are smart but they also have big flaws especially their ruling class.
Spending vast majority of sums on production on backs of impoverished masses toiling in inhuman conditions will let to big failure.
They have ruined their environment and built mountain of debt for this foolhardy exercise.

China will fail like it always did in past. The biggest flaw in Chinese is extreme conformity to authority... But when it eventually bursts it is like a volcano.
CCP is always afraid of it, But it has set the course for that event to happen. Peasants will eventually come for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rebellions_in_China

Those factories lose viability as they rust and the knowledge of how to run them is lost.

Patrick says

Those factories lose viability as they rust and the knowledge of how to run them is lost.

Some would be lost even without China to technology improvement or market change.
Also China has peaked and lot of rust belts(10x more than US) will be created there soon.. probably many already. The environment cleanup of this will bankrupt china.
CCP is just trying to save skin from peasants by creating useless manufacturing... See the videos I posed on "china poor construction" thread. It is already boxed by economic principles and have no way to run for long.
https://www.statista.com/chart/20858/top-10-countries-by-share-of-global-manufacturing-output/

@HunterTits
China is fraud economy. They think "poor disposable stuff" and rebuilding it again and again is economic growth.
Unfortunately corrupts corporates like walmart etc. bought into this notion as it is good for retail.
Strange part is that so called "green economy" guys couldn't muster anything against this extremely polluting exercise.

This article explains it well:
https://chinaeconomicreview.com/china-housing-shoddy-building-quality-energy-incentives-gdp/
To Qiao Runling, deputy director at China’s top planning body, the National Development and Reform Commission, the short lifespan doesn’t simply indicate how long the housing is livable in but how long developers wait to tear down one project in order to raise a more expensive one

“Chinese like to demolish buildings just so they can build new ones,” Qiao said, speaking at a real estate investment forum in Shanghai last week.
he buildings aren’t torn down because they’re dangerous but rather because local officials want to drive the economy with new construction projects. It’s “political willingness” that often cuts short the life of many otherwise healthy buildings, Qiao said, “The local government wants to stimulate GDP growth and they choose the crudest way to do this: Demolition then rebuilding.”

The practice isn’t just a waste of valuable real estate, it’s a major polluter and consumer of energy. The energy needed to fuel China’s construction industry accounts for about one-third of the country’s total energy consumption, Qiao said. Where energy consumption is high, so is pollution. The unceasing cycle of building and demolition adds to China’s already dire environmental conditions. On top of that, China has little capacity to reuse construction waste, unlike countries such as Japan. Some reports say that construction refuse has literally encircled cities like Hangzhou.

HunterTits says

It takes DECADES to build up a decent blue water navy.

I'm afraid it will also take decades for the US to recover its lost manufacturing ability, and that if and only if there is a determined push to bring back manufacturing here, as Trump advocates.

Now that the oligarchy has subverted democracy to get Trump out of office, I don't see that happening any time soon.

In the meantime, China has great power over us to cut off supplies of finished goods and parts.

Patrick says

HunterTits says

It takes DECADES to build up a decent blue water navy.

I'm afraid it will also take decades for the US to recover its lost manufacturing ability, and that if and only if there is a determined push to bring back manufacturing here, as Trump advocates.

Now that the oligarchy has subverted democracy to get Trump out of office, I don't see that happening any time soon.

In the meantime, China has great power over us to cut off supplies of finished goods and parts.

I don't agree. Most of what we import from China we don't really need.
It was just greed of walmart types to push on us for their retail dollars.
If it had any market power, They would be raising prices crazy not squeezing their workers even when struggling to find few and high attrition.
(During COVID time they made killing sending sanitizing products, But US quickly ramped up... thats the time they had market power for small time window)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/183399/walmarts-net-sales-worldwide-since-2006/

farmer2021 says

I don't agree. Most of what we import from China we don't really need.

Remember during the beginning of the pandemic when there were shortages of antibiotics made only in China, and the US couldn't make them because the raw materials also come only from China?

I remember that.

Patrick says

farmer2021 says

I don't agree. Most of what we import from China we don't really need.

Remember during the beginning of the pandemic when there were shortages of antibiotics made only in China, and the US couldn't make them because the raw materials also come only from China?

I remember that.

This does happen in trading partners. It is exception not rule.
China's 5G ambitions are also biting dust due to lack of semiconductors.(They are spending like trillion $ to gain self sufficiency).

US can produce antibiotics too. The issue is not "trade" but loyalty of US govt.. If US govt folks have made treason their main business, Nothing can work.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02884-3
Why big pharma has abandoned antibiotics
A lack of financial incentive has meant large pharmaceutical companies have left the market

farmer2021 says

US can produce antibiotics too.

The question is how quickly and at what cost.

I think it would take years to recover US antibiotic manufacturing ability.

Take the PRC off of SWIFT.

Terms of restoration of interbank payment functionality:

Everyone in the PRC guaranteed weapons and a 20 year supply of ammo, even if they have to fire 10 rounds a minute, three shifts a day.

Multiparty elections.

Unions.

Otherwise, no buy slave-made shit.

Patrick says

farmer2021 says

US can produce antibiotics too.

The question is how quickly and at what cost.

I think it would take years to recover US antibiotic manufacturing ability.

Two solutions:
1) subsidy
2) Increase price.
... otherwise import. It is just not profitable.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/oneill-amr-3
We Need Antibiotics. They’re Not Profitable To Make. Who Pays?

SumatraBosch says

Take the PRC off of SWIFT.

So this means to isolate their banking system, right?

Yes.

Let them pay their bills with rocks and Ramen.

Technically that should be "rocks and lo-mein".

"Ramen" is just the bad Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese word lo-mein.

But then it wouldn't alliterate. Unless you're Japanese.

Look at hard to fake parameters of economy to estimate How much is China lying on size of economy.

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/ChenEtAl_web.pdf
A Forensic Examination of China’s National Accounts

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/china-quietly-sets-new-buy-chinese-targets-state-companies-us-sources-2021-08-02/

China quietly sets new 'buy Chinese' targets for state companies

WASHINGTON, Aug 2 (Reuters) - China's government quietly issued new procurement guidelines in May that require up to 100% local content on hundreds of items including X-ray machines and magnetic resonance imaging equipment, erecting fresh barriers for foreign suppliers, three U.S.-based sources told Reuters.