patrick.net

The Ukrainians, at least the current leadership, is brave and worthy.

But Putin can't let Nuland and Pyatt and Yoganobitch and Chalupa-cabra and the rest of the Obama Holdovers get Ukraine into NATO.

I hope richwicks is right. By the numbers, and by hesitancy to commit anything from the West (except of course Poland and the Balts with ammo) beyond blankets and pillows, Putin should win.

I think he really doesn't want to get into street fighting in dense Kiev. There's no way to avoid massive casualties if there's any kind of resistance, solider and civilian.

Maybe that is what the pause is.

Or, the Twitter Bots aren't fibbing, and Russian Army is bogged down, due to Communication problems, hit and run attacks, ersatz barriers, etc.

Nothing reliable right now.

Edit: From the sounds of the Kiev webcams, the Russians are close, but using artillery sparing or waiting for it come up or trying to avoid using it except when very necessary for "Optics".

BRUSSELS, Feb 25 (Reuters) - NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said on Friday the alliance was deploying parts of its combat-ready response force and would continue to send weapons to Ukraine, including air defences, while saying that Russia was trying to topple the Ukrainian government.

"We see rhetoric, the messages, which is strongly indicating that the aim is to remove the democratically elected government in Kyiv," he told a news conference following a virtual meeting of NATO leaders.

Some of the 30 NATO allies announced the type of weapons that they would supply Ukraine, including air defences, he said, without giving details. "Allies are very committed to continue to provide support," he said.

Stoltenberg said NATO was deploying elements of its rapid response force, which is made up of land, air, maritime and special operations forces, on allied territory.

This seems genuine:

CNN Correspondent goes to Antonov Airport to interview Ukrainian soldiers after being told by Ukrainian Defense Ministry of a beaten back Russian attack there.

After arriving outside, and speaking for a few minutes to the Commander, he says "Where are the Russians now?"

The Commander says "WE are the Russians"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10549695/CNN-reporter-catches-firefight-Russian-forces-Ukrainian-defenders-outside-Kyiv-airport.html?source=patrick.net

30,000 AKs have been distributed in Kyiv so far. All one needs to do to get one is show a valid Ukrainian ID.

These would be handy for greeting liberators.

Ukie pretty much implementing 2A on the fly. In its pre-1934 form, no less.

AmericanKulak says

This seems genuine:

CNN Correspondent goes to Antonov Airport to interview Ukrainian soldiers after being told by Ukrainian Defense Ministry of a beaten back Russian attack there.

After arriving outside, and speaking for a few minutes to the Commander, he says "Where are the Russians now?"

The Commander says "WE are the Russians"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10549695/CNN-reporter-catches-firefight-Russian-forces-Ukrainian-defenders-outside-Kyiv-airport.html?source=patrick.net

Geniune but old.

AmericanKulak says

The Ukrainians, at least the current leadership, is brave and worthy.

I'd disagree, but after this war is over, they will remain in power.

Russia has done this repeatedly. When forced, they go into an area, beat the fuck out of it, and leave, with some very clear understandings about what that country has to do to avoid that again.

The war will be over within a week, and within a month, the Russians will be gone, and Ukraine will no longer be asking to join NATO or the EU. EU is a mistake anyhow, any country that has joined it ended up fucking over their own population after doing it.

Russia doesn't do 20 year wars with no mission objective. I have to respect Russia for at least having a GOAL for starting a war. War sucks, but when you do it, I appreciate it when there is a clear mission objective and a set of absolute demands.

If the US went into Iraq, found out there wasn't a weapons of mass destruction program, and left and perhaps helped rebuild, I would barely bitch about it but I'd still bitch about it to some extent.

richwicks says

Russia has done this repeatedly. When forced, they go into an area, beat the fuck out of it, and leave, with some very clear understandings about what that country has to do to avoid that again.

As in Georgia, under Dubya - who also didn't do very much in response.

richwicks says

I'd disagree, but after this war is over, they will remain in power.

I think Zelenskiyy is of a different type than his predecessors, being an Actor rather than an Oligarch or lifelong Politician. I find TV/Movie actors to be excellent politicians. Reagan and Trump, and I think one of the Filipino Presidents, Duarte maybe? Or I'm thinking of South America.

richwicks says

The war will be over within a week, and within a month, the Russians will be gone, and Ukraine will no longer be asking to join NATO or the EU. EU is a mistake anyhow, any country that has joined it ended up fucking over their own population after doing it.

When I saw Putins modest demands, basically what he's been asking to talk about and being snubbed as Evil Russia instead, the aims are reasonable.

What a victory for Putin (and America) means isn't in doubt, but if all goes to shit by some disastrous chain of events, we'll be in rally bad shape, whatever reflexively Cold Warriors think about it. It'll be a HUGE victory for the Globalists, won't hurt the CCP one lick, and they'll leverage that positive news to impose a whole new stage or two for neolibcon globalist NWO whatever you call it with their wind in their sails, sweeping the 2022 elections "I wanna vote for Biden, victor over Putin! Who gives a fuck if gas is $7/gal!"

The NeverTrump Skunks will be even more unbearably arrogant and stupid than ever before.

Eric Holder says

30,000 AKs have been distributed in Kyiv so far. All one needs to do to get one is show a valid Ukrainian ID.

These would be handy for greeting liberators.

For Fucks Sake.

They never claimed to be liberators. Russia can't allow encroachment of the EU and NATO against their borders any further, and this is their only request and if that demand was met, this war wouldn't have happened.

Russia will have a decisive win in short order, I'd be surprised if it goes on for more than a few days, and they'll get what they wanted in the first place. Once that's been established, Russian military will leave, and Volodymyr Zelenskyy will be living in Miami in a million dollar mansion with a suitcase full of cash.

I'm doubtful the civilians give a shit which way it goes and I doubt they're willing to risk their lives to keep Hunter Biden "working" at Burisma. This is yet another stupid pointless war that could have been avoided if people were reasonable, instead of paid to be unreasonable.

richwicks says

Russia can give up it's only warm water port.

Fake News

Novorossysk is also warm water port, some geography knowledge is helpful usually

I've looked at all of the roadside Propaganda attractions posted in this thread, and they all have the same common mark of Bullshit on them.

!)They aren't even on the road, intersection or any important piece of infrastructure that an invading tank would surely be traveling on. They are all conveniently off to the side of the road.
2)The lack of burnt human remains is also very suspect. As charred as those interiors are, there would be crispy black burnt human figures in those transports and tanks had people been in them when they were torched. Which leads me to point number 3
3)Armored vehicles like that are build to withstand Molotov cocktails and people trying to burn them from the outside. The exterior just doesn't catch on fire and burn those inside.
There aren't any bullets on those vehicles, no shrapnel holes, no deformation, no craters near the vehicles, so we know they were NOT taken out by incendiary or explosive devices while in commission with occupants inside.

They look like they were all parked on the side of the road, doused in Gasoline inside and out, and then set ablaze.
And those so called dead liberators, are all laying face down, with what appears to be blood on the tops of their heads. Either they are bad crisis actors, and the scene was set up by morons. Or they are capturing Russian sympathizers and executing them point blank on the top of the head. The way they are set up and their injuries do not look like Combat casualties. If they were executed opposition it would explain them being laid face down and called Russian invaders, so that they couldn't be Doxed and expose the lie.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Russia can give up it's only warm water port.

Fake News

Novorossysk is also warm water port, some geography knowledge is helpful usually

Novorossysk could be taken out with just one Mother of all Bombs dropped in the center of the Bay. The way that port is inside a very narrow cove, does not exude Naval Supremacy.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Russia can give up it's only warm water port.

Fake News

Novorossysk is also warm water port, some geography knowledge is helpful usually

Well my mistake. I'm going to have to spend some time looking at satellite pictures I guess.

richwicks says

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Russia can give up it's only warm water port.

Fake News

Novorossysk is also warm water port, some geography knowledge is helpful usually

Well my mistake. I'm going to have to spend some time looking at satellite pictures I guess.

Zero knowledge of European history. Zero knowledge of European geography. But lofty opinions about everything. What a fucking joke.

richwicks says

They never claimed to be liberators.

Oh, noes! A misunderstanding! Why aren't they say something instead of accepting all the greetings and Polka dances?

richwicks says

These would be handy for greeting liberators.

For Fucks Sake.

They never claimed to be liberators.

At this point I don't even expect you to know what TASS is. I'll tell you: it's the official USSR/Russia government press agency (TASS stands for Telegraph Agency of Soviet Union - they never bothered to even change the name).

So, this is what TASS reported yesterday:

MOSCOW, February 24. /TASS/. Denazification means that Ukraine should be liberated from neo-Nazis, Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Thursday.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said earlier that in response to a request by the heads of the Donbass republics, he had made a decision to carry out a special military operation in order to protect the people who had been suffering from abuse and genocide by the Kiev regime.

"Ideally, Ukraine should be liberated, cleaned from neo-Nazis, from people sharing pro-Nazi sentiment and ideas," Peskov pointed out, when asked to explain remarks about the need to denazify Ukraine.

https://tass.com/politics/1409999?source=patrick.net

NOW, SIT THE FUCK DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU UNINFORMED FUCKING FUCK!

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Russia can give up it's only warm water port.

Fake News

Novorossysk is also warm water port, some geography knowledge is helpful usually

Well my mistake. I'm going to have to spend some time looking at satellite pictures I guess.

Zero knowledge of European history. Zero knowledge of European geography. But lofty opinions about everything. What a fucking joke.

Well educate me.

Eric Holder says

So, this is what TASS reported yesterday:

MOSCOW, February 24. /TASS/. Denazification means that Ukraine should be liberated from neo-Nazis, Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Thursday.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said earlier that in response to a request by the heads of the Donbass republics, he had made a decision to carry out a special military operation in order to protect the people who had been suffering from abuse and genocide by the Kiev regime.

"Ideally, Ukraine should be liberated, cleaned from neo-Nazis, from people sharing pro-Nazi sentiment and ideas," Peskov pointed out, when asked to explain remarks about the need to denazify Ukraine.

https://tass.com/politics/1409999?source=patrick.net

NOW, SIT THE FUCK DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU UNINFORMED FUCKING FUCK!

What?

This is just another nothing burger. NATO isn't going to do anything, Ukraine will surrender in short order when they realize their supposed allies aren't, and after Russia makes terms and conditions and is very clear about these being kept, will withdraw.

NATO is bullshit. The UN is bullshit.

In 5 years time, this will be as well remembered as the Russian invasion of Georgia.

If there's any upside to all this stupid fuckery, it will end the civil war that has been going on in Ukraine for, what, a decade?

richwicks says

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

These would be handy for greeting liberators.

For Fucks Sake.

They never claimed to be liberators.

At this point I don't even expect you to know what TASS is. I'll tell you: it's the official USSR/Russia government press agency (TASS stands for Telegraph Agency of Soviet Union - they never bothered to even change the name).

So, this is what TASS reported yesterday: "MOSCOW, February 24. /TASS/. Denazification means that Ukraine should be liberated from neo-Nazis, Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Thursday." ...

What?

This is just another nothing burger. NATO isn't going to do anything,

What is NATO has to do with the fact thay you were caugh lying about Russians "not claiming to be liberators"? Can you even have a cogent conversation without jumping around like a fucking flea on meth from one topic to another? Sheeesh. What a fucking joke.

AmericanKulak says

If they use Ray Epps and half the Whitmer kidnappers are FBI... they're CERTAINLY making fake news/video/photos about Ukraine.

LOL!

AmericanKulak says

Putin's loss will give the Wokies their first ever foreign policy victory in 20 years, and take total control over America for years.

@AmericanKulak,
This was not directed at me but I have had the same thoughts.

My considerations...
Let me preface by saying that US SHOULD NOT SEND ANY TROOPS TO UKRAINE. It is little if any of our business. Having said that,
Selling arms to Poland who can transfer those to UA is reasonable.
I don't like Russia/Putin and I genuinely hope Ukrainians kick their ass.
I am pleasantly surprised by Ukrainian resistance. Their army seems motivated.
If thdy win, you're right, Nulands of the world will have an orgasmic MUH DEMOCRACY GAY VALUES moment.
Do you think Ukrainian nationalists care about that?
As soon as Russian threat recedes, they will become more right wing than Poland or Orban, religious and all that. At this point they keep their mouths shut but tey are not soyboy types.
I don't think UA victory is anything but Pyrrhic victory for Nulands and Bidets. Another East European nationalists, similar to Poles.

AmericanKulak says

@Bd6r maybe hears things and @richwicks needs to chime in.

@AmericanKulak - I have to be very clear. I had a friend in Ukraine that was an expatriot, but I've not heard from him in years, and his skype account was hacked. He very well may be dead.

I'm just speculating with regard to what is going on. I expect that Russia will overwhelm Ukraine very quickly, make terms and conditions (the terms and conditions they had previous to this war), and leave.

The war was pointless. It could have been prevented. NATO is a paper tiger, Russia isn't a real threat, and mutual cooperation between Russia and Europe is mutually beneficial. NATO is pointless, and Russia isn't an enemy.

Russia will get what they wanted in the first place, the only difference is that a bunch of people got killed over it, there's been damage to infrastructure, but perhaps on the plus side it ends the civil war in Ukraine. I hope for the best, and I think I'm right to expect that, but time will tell. I hope I'm right.

AmericanKulak says

President of Ukraine says Russians on the outskirts, seems down but grim
Biden CIA funded twitter accounts says Russians are barely inside Ukraine and getting RED DAWNED PWND by the Ukrainian Army.

@Bd6r maybe hears things

Nothing is clear as of yet. It was not a cakewalk with Ukrainians meeting them with flowers as Russians thought, but on other hand they have apparently broken through in South Ukraine. Ukrainians heavily bombed airport in Russia near Rostov. Poles transferred their AA rockets to Ukraine which also says that situation hangs in balance. Next few days will tell.

I'm hoping for the same Russia gets in and out of there quick. I am more worried they have planed this with China and China does a real grab.

It's irritating all the surprise with what Putin is doing, I think we have been expecting it after Crimea was taken during Obummer.

Bd6r says

Nothing is clear as of yet. It was not a cakewalk with Ukrainians meeting them with flowers as Russians thought,

That's what WE are told they thought.

The operation is clear, Ukraine can't join the EU or become a NATO member.

These aren't unreasonable demands, and Ukraine fighting over this, is just killing Ukrainians. This war should have never happened.

AmericanKulak says

One thing is clear: ACTORS MAKE THE BEST PRESIDENTS, WORLDWIDE.

Elect more Actors.

Reagan was great actually. Rest are shitheads, even Ukrainian one.

Maybe instead of a dragged out Golan Heights type perpetual rocket war on Donbas et alia, Putin decided to fritter away some newfound oil and gas wealth to take out as much of the military infrastructure as possible, including the biolabs and Globalist strongholds. Zelinsky seems scarcely worried, and even seems to be acting with conspiracy aforethought with Putin. He's likely a double agent.

richwicks says

These aren't unreasonable demands, and Ukraine fighting over this, is just killing Ukrainians.

It should be up to Ukraine what they join or dont join. Russia should have little say in this

Bd6r says

richwicks says

These aren't unreasonable demands, and Ukraine fighting over this, is just killing Ukrainians.

It should be up to Ukraine what they join or dont join. Russia should have little say in this

In an ideal world, I'd agree with you, but not this world.

Russia has real security concerns after 20 years of demonizing by the west. The Skripals were NOT poisoned by the FSB or any Russian intelligence agency for example. Russia didn't hack our elections, Trump isn't a Putin puppet.

Russia doesn't trust the United States, and they are right not to trust the United States.

The encroachment of NATO on the Russian border is seen as a threat, it's not unreasonable.

If the assholes that run the United States have a FUCK about this country, they would align us with Russia, and dump their alliance with Europe. THAT would be beneficial to the United States and its people.

richwicks says

Bd6r says

These aren't unreasonable demands, and Ukraine fighting over this, is just killing Ukrainians. This war should have never happened.

This is a "F U, propaganda troll" moment. I now have enough data to accurately classify you.

richwicks says

If the assholes that run the United States have a FUCK about this country, they would align us with Russia, and dump their alliance with Europe. THAT would be beneficial to the United States and its people.

Yup. But as it stands, the two great powers of China and Russia stand United against us.

If we could make friends with Russia it would open many doors for mutually beneficial activities and trade. We could use our knowledge to show Russia how to tap its huge natural resources.
We could build a road to Nome, Alaska, and then a bridge across the Bering Straight linking both continents by road for the very first time ever.
Think of it, you could ROAD TRIP from Caracas to Johannesburg.

richwicks says

dump their alliance with Europe. THAT would be beneficial to the United States and its people.

How would it be beneficial? This does not make any sense whatsoever

Bd6r says

richwicks says

dump their alliance with Europe. THAT would be beneficial to the United States and its people.

How would it be beneficial? This does not make any sense whatsoever

What does Europe offer the United States?

Russia is filled with natural resources, they are a major nuclear power, and they have a well educated population.

It's psychopathic to betray Europe, but it's logical. Europe is dependent on Russian energy. Instead of making war in the Middle East and Russia to guarantee we are the only suppliers, cooperate. Although I'm not a sociopath, I can think like one. This would be the logical thing to do, HOWEVER, trust would be an issue, and neither side can trust the other.

A Russian/US cooperation imagine it - it would be the most powerful cooperation the world has ever seen. I doubt Russia or the US would give up its commitments to China, that would be required I think.

Size of Russian economy is about same as of Italy. Why not have union with Bangladesh instead...

Bd6r says

Size of Russian economy is about same as of Italy. Why not have union with Bangladesh instead...

The measure of an economy's size is based on GDP, it's a useless metric.

If I pay you $1.00 to mow my lawn, and you pay me $1.00 to make your lunch, the GDP just went up by $2.00. It's a measure of cash exchange, that's all.

If you get cancer, and spend 1/2 million dollars trying to cure it, that's $1 million in GDP because the money you spent is spent elsewhere.

Sure, Russia is great and important because it is great and important

Bd6r says

Sure, Russia is great and important because it is great and important

Russia is filled with natural resources. Period.

If Russia and the United States invaded Afghanistan, it would be conquered. It's filled with natural resources as well.

richwicks says

Russia is filled with natural resources

So is Brazil and South Africa, and also by the way us.

And why would Russians "share" their resources with others?

It does look like the false flag, fake news and disinformation chaff is out in force, so it might take some time to discern something resembling reality on the ground.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

These aren't unreasonable demands, and Ukraine fighting over this, is just killing Ukrainians. This war should have never happened.

This is a "F U, propaganda troll" moment. I now have enough data to accurately classify you.

I probably owe a follow-up explanation to the group. I'll do it in the form of "here's one tell on how to spot propaganda trolls". Here it is:

1. Realize that propaganda trolls follow marching orders.
2. They are low-level yet organized, they have curators, the curators synchronize their activities.
3. As a group, they synchronously change topics and points. Most of the time very passionately, they would promote a point that just yesterday wasn't even on the radar.
4. Most of us follow multiple boards. If you see this behavior happen at about the same time, and in different sources, and in sync, and they promote the same point, and the personalities are already under suspicion - this is your tell.
5. Today, I observed this switch from "it's all a lie, this is not happening, photos are fake, reports are fake" to "Russia is reasonable, resistance is futile, it's just killing of Ukrainians" in more than one source.

Besides my initial point, this is good news. It means that Ukraine is holding up despite the odds, and that Russia is getting worried.

Eric Holder says

What?

This is just another nothing burger. NATO isn't going to do anything,

What is NATO has to do with the fact that you were caught lying about Russians "not claiming to be liberators"?

When did I ever claim that Russia was liberating Ukraine? You are mistaken.

I don't have emotional involvement with conflicts any more, and I know the people that start these conflicts don't. Russia has an ultimatum, it has NOTHING to do with the quality of life of the peasants of Ukraine. They are exactly like our government, although our government engages in conflicts for corporate profits, not national benefit.

Eric Holder says

Can you even have a cogent conversation without jumping around like a fucking flea on meth from one topic to another? Sheeesh. What a fucking joke.

You mean coherent, not cogent. I often made this error myself.

Do not strawman me.

You want to talk, talk, but don't waste my time trying to force me to defend a position I do not hold.