patrick.net

komputodo says

what end? What does russia gain from invading?

I think nothing, but then again I am not Putler. He has probably botoxed out his brains.

However, presence of Russian troops in Ukraine does seem to verify invasion. And I did not see that on CNN

Bd6r says

komputodo says

what end? What does russia gain from invading?

I think nothing, but then again I am not Putler. He has probably botoxed out his brains.

Yeah that makes sense...I think you nailed it...BTW...Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell of California suggested Friday that kicking Russian students out of U.S. colleges and universities should be looked at as a possible deterrent to Russia after the country's President Vladimir Putin launched an invasion into Ukraine earlier this week.

Asked during a Thursday appearance on "CNN Newsroom" about potential sanctions the U.S. should use against Russia, Swalwell proposed penalizing Russian students attending college in the U.S.
That seems justified...lol

Bd6r says

However, presence of Russian troops in Ukraine does seem to verify invasion.

Would NATO troops in the Ukraine also verify invasion by Nato?

HunterTits says

Uhh...seriously?

Uhh.yes.seriously...please educate me

To put in a Russian Friendly government that won't join NATO and maybe sign a non-Aggression Pact, which of course peace-loving Globalists will call (with some justice) made under duress.

If they do this, you should have invested in Eastern Poland, since it will be a seller's market for real estate due to new base openings.

HunterTits says

komputodo says

Uhh.yes.seriously...please educate me

But are YOU serious?

What I mean is that this can't be taught on a PatNet post. You are going to have to invest time and effort. Worth it, tho.

This guy totally predicted this, so I would recommend reading his book

Predicted what? That Russia would eventually attack Ukraine to prevent it from joining NATO?

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH.

You don't need to be a genius to see that.

HunterTits says

No.

That is also not why Russia invaded. Germany would never have agreed to let Ukraine join NATO anyway.

That's the only ultimatum that Putin has been making for YEARS now.

Had Ukraine and NATO simply stated that there were no plans to bring Ukraine into NATO, there would have been no war - at least according to Russia. If NATO and Ukraine had just made this statement, Russia wouldn't have had an excuse to go to war, if that was just cover to begin the war.

HunterTits says

That you believe otherwise is just indicative that you don't know what is going on. Sorry to be an asshole, but it is true.

You could just state what you think is going on, but you won't.

Oh, but it has to be a MYSTERY, you couldn't possibly fit it into a sentence, why I'd have to read volumes of books to have it explained.

Yeah, that's typical bullshit. The truth isn't complicated but lies get very fucking convoluted. I'm not particularly informed about Russia, but I am with US foreign policy and how often they lie and how they always love to make war and mayhem. I'm VERY familiar with that. Quite often the US will draw a "red line" and then do everything they can do to make certain that line is crossed, up to an including false flags like they did in Syria, or just lying about it like they did with the last Iraq War.

I don't know how trustworthy Russia is, but I know PRECISELY how trustworthy the US intelligence agencies are and that's our foreign policy.

komputodo says

Would NATO troops in the Ukraine also verify invasion by Nato?

Yes. Unless they are invited by UA govt

Russians start talking to Ukranians in Belorus. Which means that invasion is falling apart, contrary to predictions also here

If we dont get a thermonuclear war by cornered Putin, result will be a few centuries of enhanced hate of russ by ukr and birth of a genuine ukranian nation - before they were not nationalists other than in West Ukraine

This morning I talked with a Russian friend of mine who lives in a former USSR country. She has a lot of relatives in Ukraine and Russia, is fairly rich, and has a lot of connections in Russia. I will think over what she said and will write a summary in evening. It is more depressing than what any of us here can imagine.

richwicks says

Russia wouldn't have had an excuse to go to war, if that was just cover to begin the war.

They would have gone to war anyway. They don't need a real reason.

Reminder: The Montreaux Convention says ALL Parties cannot send warships in or out of the Bosphorus when activated. That means the USN as well as Russian.

But we all know how the precious Holy Divine Laws International Treaties of Ultimate Goodness when in reality it's an Anarchy of Powerful States.

See also: Nuremberg Laws with COVID. Many Signatories didn't bat an eye Or no Security Council approval for various "Interventions".

And no, folks stuck in the Cold War, it's not Putin Propaganda, it's reality. I fully support the Monroe Doctrine and kicking Soviet Ass in Grenada and Cuba for trying to put in Tupolev Bomber bases and SRBMs there. But the Monroe Doctrine is Evil and Totally Invalidated according to the Divine Rules Based Order the Internationalists want enforced.

International Law is FALSE SECURITY and SELECTIVELY ENFORCED.

How Many Divisions has the Red Cross?

Once people go back to Realpolitik, Concert of Europe thinking, and not the Globaloney International Law BS, they'll see the world and what's possible with clear eyes, not through the Dark Fart Fog of Ideology.

OK, so I gathered my thoughts and my very limited mental abilities after talking to my Russian friend.

1. Her relatives in Kiev said that yesterday situation for Ukrainans was so dire that military trucks were stopping in cities and giving out AKs and RPGs to anyone who would take them. No documents required. Result is twofold. First, Russians are met with gunfire from every damned house. Second, massive looting by UKRAINIAN criminals who got their hand on weapons (and that is ascribed by Ukr propaganda to Russian troops). Lesson: population should be given guns BEFORE invasion.
2. The idiots in West dont understand East European psychology. They have village patriotism. If Russians attack Donbas, Zhytomyr does not give a shit. Now they attacked whole Ukraine and we will have a Ukrainian nation finally - before it was Soviet invention and ephemeral.
3. Rich russians think that Putin has gone mad. Hence, watch out for nuclear attacks since he is losing grip on reality and power. What does he have to lose - if he loses war in Ukraine or even if there is an unfavorable stalemate, his associates will kill him as is common in those parts of the world. This scares me a lot and you should be afraid as well. We may have the end of civilization as we know it.
4. So called patriotic or anti West Russians are against attacking Ukraine. It is different to liberate Sevastopol where probably 90 pct of population greets Russian troops with flowers. In Mariupol or Kiev they are greeted with RPGs and result is mutual killing of Eastern Slavs, which is anathema to a lot of Russians.

Some of my considerations...
1. It is first time since 1991 when I am actually afraid for what will happen.
2. I am not sure, but supposedly Putin has been vaccinated against covid many times. Perhaps vaccine decreases intellectual abilities, and I am not joking. Before attacking, he had excellent situation where he could threaten to attack and extract concessions. Now it is over.
3. So called imperial type Russians say that Putin sank a lot of money into new weapons, but most of it was stolen. Which is normal around there. Result - most of weapons used to attack Ukraine is of 1989 vintage, same as most Ukrainian weapons. Russian troops have little motivation (see village patriotism above), while Ukrainians have motivation.
4. Zelensky the Ukr president is a Russian speaking Jew. He learned to speak Ukr language after he was elected. So much about Nazis leading Ukraine and oppression of Russian speakers. I think he is genuine Ukr patriot now, I was not sure before.
5. I posted a link to former Soviet KGB/military top brass open letter to Putin a few weeks ago here on Patnet (https://patrick.net/post/1343609/2022-02-08-interesting-development-in-russian-aggr) which said that Putin is an idiot who should step down. This letter convinced me that attack on Ukraine is imminent. See above Eastern Slavs killing Eastern Slavs. Anathema to most Soviet educated military.
6. Russians want talks now. This means their Blitzkrieg did not work. West will try to force Ukrainians to talk. Since they are winning, the only talk should be about Russians surrendering. +Germans with their need for Russian gaz are ones who need talks not Ukrainans. Do stupid greenie crap, win stupid prizes.
7. Someone on Patnet predicted Russian cakewalk in 4 days. It is 4th day and there are now as many dead Russians as in whole first Chechen war.

Bd6r says

The idiots in West dont understand East European psychology. They have village patriotism. If Russians attack Donbas, Zhytomyr does not give a shit. Now they attacked whole Ukraine and we will have a Ukrainian nation finally - before it was Soviet invention and ephemeral.

This is similar to the Irish mentality. Loyalty was only to one's extended family for many centuries. There was no country of Ireland. It took British invasion and occupation to make the Irish think of themselves as one people - in opposition to the British.

The last straw was when the British executed prisoners after the 1916 Easter uprising at the Dublin General Post office, including one who was in a wheelchair. After that, even those Irish who used to think of themselves as British changed their minds.

Oppression creates unity. Putin is really creating the country of Ukraine right now.

Bd6r says

First, Russians are met with gunfire from every damned house.

Doubt it. Most people are simply not brave enough to pull the trigger, especially when they know a trained person is potentially going to be shooting back.

Bd6r says

Rich russians think that Putin has gone mad.

This is possible. I’m sure many believe he has gone mad, and it is possible he has, I mean those images of meetings with advisors where he is half a room away are ridiculous. But, it is also possible that in a mad world he is relatively sane. Not making any judgment here I just am skeptical about both Russian and Western media so both sides and the people who listen to the media/propaganda really have no idea what the truth is. What I do know is this, there is pretty much universal condemnation in the media of what “Putin has done.”

Bd6r says

What does he have to lose - if he loses war in Ukraine or even if there is an unfavorable stalemate, his associates will kill him as is common in those parts of the world. This scares me a lot and you should be afraid as well. We may have the end of civilization as we know it.

Ah, now this is where it really gets interesting. I don’t think in a world where our own scientists created a virus, lied about it, released it, used it to manipulate elections, and implement totalitarian controls that we need to be afraid of a foreign power, any more than we need to be concerned about liars, traitors and despots in our own country and neighborhoods. Sure, ever since the invention of nuclear weapons there has been a threat of their use, but the threat is only slightly more real to you now that you feel Putin may be crazy. If Putin is crazy, what does that say about Fauci? He is a psychopath. And there are many more like him in our own country, in positions of power no less. And for that matter, consider Biden is he any more sane? He keeps pushing worthless and dangerous vaccines for a virus that is only a threat to people who are already immunocompromised.

Don’t fear Putin, your fear is misplaced. Fear the God who created you. When all is said and done, it is either this, do God’s will, or be judged. Your life is like a vapor, it appears for a little while and then quickly vanishes away. Let Putin nuke me, I’ll be happy to be done with my time on this earth, and will rest easy knowing that if God wills that I die in a nuclear holocaust it was his will, and it happened to give Him glory.

I don’t believe for one second that Putin is playing games, nor that he did not anticipate exactly what has happened. I don’t know why he chose to go after the city of Kiev, or if the stories we hear are even remotely true. But I do know that the globalists want us to hate Putin right now. And that should give us all pause.

From the Wikipedia article on Putin:

Putin has promoted explicitly conservative policies in social, cultural, and political matters, both at home and abroad. Putin has attacked globalism and neo-liberalism and is identified by scholars with Russian conservatism.[328] Putin has promoted new think tanks that bring together like-minded intellectuals and writers. For example, the Izborsky Club, founded in 2012 by the conservative right-wing journalist Alexander Prokhanov, stresses (i) Russian nationalism, (ii) the restoration of Russia's historical greatness, and (iii) systematic opposition to liberal ideas and policies.[329] Vladislav Surkov, a senior government official, has been one of the key economics consultants during Putin's presidency.[330]

So Putin is definitely a threat to the woke globalists. This explains a lot.

More support for the point of view that Putin is a threat to the woke globalists:

https://johnwaters.substack.com/p/bonus-content-diary-extracts?source=patrick.net

Events in Ukraine remind me of my childhood school pal, Par Doherty, who at the age of 12 was to be observed puffing on a cigarette every lunchtime behind the science lab. One day, being unable to comprehend the attractions of sticking pencils of rolled up dried weed wrapped in paper in your mouth and setting them on fire, I asked him why he had started smoking in the first place. ‘My mother was always accusing me of smoking, he responded, ‘so I decided I might as well start.’

And so it is with Vladimir Putin. His action of this morning follows years of provocation of Russia within its own ‘sphere of influence,’ as well as its allies within Ukraine. US encouragement of Kiev’s contemptuous treatment of the Minsk accords, while at the same time stringing Ukraine along about its joining NATO in order to wind up Putin, has finally caused him to kick the chair.

Russia cares about Ukraine; the West does not. The ‘West’ — the US and EU — has several motives: Right now, it is looking urgently for an alibi for its two years of Covid crimes against its own peoples, which it hopes to do by creating a state of permanent emergency. A state of New Cold War with Russia will fit the bill perfectly.

Here is the news: ‘Our side’ are the bad guys. They lie and lie in search of some pretext to create a distraction from their encroaching irrelevance as Russia and China grow and grow. The biggest lie is that Russia is intent upon rebuilding the Soviet Union. Instead, Putin is building a new civilisation, based on Christianity, tradition, nationhood and family — all the things that have been under relentless attack in the West from the Woke psychos and saboteurs unwittingly acting for the Combine and spurred on by the local creeps.

Patrick says

Putin is building a new civilisation, based on Christianity, tradition, nationhood

That is not correct. He is a head of mafia state, after being part of mob in st petersburg. Does carpetbombing of chechen civilians count as Christianity? Does enriching himself counts as Christianity?

PeopleUnited says

Doubt it. Most people are simply not brave enough to pull the trigger, especially when they know a trained person is potentially going to be shooting back.

Nearly all East Europeans have been through mandatory service in army, they know how to shoot AK or RPG. Many have cycled through various conflicts (Donbass).
Edit: every house is of course an exaggeration.

Bd6r says

Patrick says

Putin is building a new civilisation, based on Christianity, tradition, nationhood

That is crap. He is a head of mafia state, after being part of mob in st petersburg. Does carpetbombing of chechen civilians count as Christianity? Does enriching himself counts as Christianity?

Does worshipping NKVD/KGB and Joseph fucking Stalin counts as Christianity?

And getting abortion in Russia is easier then buying a pack of smokes. Has been since 1917 when Bolsheviks came to power and still is. Christianity my ass.

Bd6r says

PeopleUnited says

Doubt it. Most people are simply not brave enough to pull the trigger, especially when they know a trained person is potentially going to be shooting back.

Nearly all East Europeans have been through mandatory service in army, they know how to shoot AK or RPG. Many have cycled through various conflicts (Donbass).
Edit: every house is of course an exaggeration.

Knowing how to shoot and poking your head out in face of a soldier pointing a weapon back at you are two different things. No doubt some will do so, most however will not.

Bd6r says

Patrick says

Putin is building a new civilisation, based on Christianity, tradition, nationhood

That is not correct. He is a head of mafia state, after being part of mob in st petersburg. Does carpetbombing of chechen civilians count as Christianity? Does enriching himself counts as Christianity?

That's not really a quote of me saying that. That's a quote of John Waters. I agree that Putin is a mafioso, and Russia is a mafia state according to my understanding.

But I think he is definitely placing himself in opposition to the woke globalists, and this scares them, because they know that a lot of people are very tired of wokeness and the expansion of global rule by corporations.

I also think the west can no longer claim moral superiority over Putin.

We also have election fraud, and the imprisonment of political opposition, and the crushing of peaceful protests, as in Ottawa.

I would say that at this point, the US government is entirely run by the corporate mafia, places like Pfizer. Pfizer, Moderna, et al dictated the government response to the virus Fauci created in Wuhan, and they did it for their own profit in a very mafia-like way. Opposition was smeared and silenced. I suspect they had Luc Montagnier killed, though I can't prove it.

I've seen interviews with Eastern Europeans and Iranians in Canada saying that scare-mongering tactics and the crushing of dissent are what they came to Canada to escape, but they found the same things in Canada anyway.

Patrick says

also think the west can no longer claim moral superiority over Putin.

Moral superiority probably ended with Iraq war 2

Booger says

richwicks says

Russia wouldn't have had an excuse to go to war, if that was just cover to begin the war.

They would have gone to war anyway. They don't need a real reason.

No. War for Russia is expensive and something to be avoided.

It's only the US that concocts reasons for war, since the US government currently is, and has been at war against the US population for decades, and war is a good way to steal from them.

From the same article, this also seems quite plausible to me:

Most immediately, this campaign arose from Washington’s desire to scupper the opening of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline between Russia and Germany, which would have shifted the balance of power-loyalties in the world in a manner uncongenial to the US. If ties between Germany and Russia were to become strengthened, there would be no need for NATO, or US military bases in Europe, and this might signal the initiation of a nascent (uncapitalised) new world order — Russia, Germany and possibly China — which the US was not, for obvious reasons, so keen on. One of the direct outcomes of this would have been that the petrodollar would cease to be the default world currency. And, by the by, Ukraine, as the Hunter Biden story (suppressed by the corrupt media) tells us, is also a money-laundering operation for the globalist financial elites.

https://johnwaters.substack.com/p/bonus-content-diary-extracts?source=patrick.net

Patrick says

Most immediately, this campaign arose from Washington’s desire to scupper the opening of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline between Russia and Germany

Trump closed it
Bidet removed sanctions for it
War started after sanctions removed by globalist team
Something does not compute here

Patrick says

Most immediately, this campaign arose from Washington’s desire to scupper the opening of the Nord Stream 2

It was already dead until Biden revived it. The person who wrote that article is a stupid cunt.

Bd6r says

Something does not compute here

Lolz, yeah, Blue Screen Of Death!

Eric Holder says

The person who wrote that article is a stupid cunt.

Nah, he may be wrong on some points, but he's a brilliant cunt for sure:

It is very hard to predict whether or when the people of the West will start to wake up and realise what has been happening to the world they imagine themselves to inhabit. For many years, for sundry reasons, their governments have been working assiduously to transform their societies from democracies to fascist dictatorships properly defined: power cartels of government and corporations with a view to total control. To achieve these ends, they have rotated the political left 180 degrees so that it now, without even knowing it, represents the interests of the greediest and most ruthless forces on earth. While demonising any residual voice of opposition as ‘far right’, these neo-fascist governments are prepared to deal with any bunch of extremists thugs from left or right in order to achieve their primary aim of subjugating and terrorising their populations. Now, they think to present themselves again as champions of democracy.

But the democratic West no longer exists, in anything but name, and in that only because of the continuing corruption of the media, which, at a moment of near-terminal decline, were offered the opportunity to survive a little longer by selling western civilisation down the river, an offer they grabbed with both arms.

It is, after all, a spaghetti western, and our guys are the ones with the manic laughs and the bad moustaches.

https://johnwaters.substack.com/p/bonus-content-diary-extracts?source=patrick.net

He's Irish, so he makes some inside jokes:

In a sense, the Turdeau stuff adds nothing to the mix of what most of us had already experienced of the pathological ugliness of virtually the entirety of the Western political class. He is but a convex mirror held up to Varadkreep and the Taoiseach mehole, both of whom would do the same thing tomorrow if the ordare was issued to them.

Leo Varadkar is president of Ireland (or something like that). Indian father, Irish mother.

Michael Martin (pronounced "mehole" Martin in Irish, but the phonetic spelling no doubt used here to convey that he is an asshole according to the author)

Taoiseach (pronounced tee-shack) is something like president as well. They have two leaders. I don't understand their system.

Patrick says

Eric Holder says

The person who wrote that article is a stupid cunt.

Nah, he may be wrong on some points, but he's a brilliant cunt for sure:

My rule of reading is simple: once I encounter a false assertion about something I know for sure, I quit reading and it goes into trash. Because there is no telling about the veracity of the rest of it.

Kind of hard to read any news at all then.

https://off-guardian.org/2022/02/27/7-fake-news-stories-coming-out-of-ukraine/?source=patrick.net

There's a bill to give Ukraine $6B in aid.

The GOP controlled the House from 1994 except two year gap 2009-2010 and then eight years straight, losing only 2019-now. About 20 years of the past 26, the GOP ran the House. For 10 of those years, they also had a Republican President simultaneously, so half the time, a whole decade worth of time.

Never passed $6B for a Southern Wall. Only endless investigatory, white paper, hearings and committees and study groups.

In fact, I distinctly remember them claiming in the late 90s/early 2000s there was no money and that it would be budget busting. Long before we were anywhere near $30T in debt.

Watch them pass the Ukraine Aid bill in days or even hours.

"America Last."

Bd6r says

Patrick says

Most immediately, this campaign arose from Washington’s desire to scupper the opening of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline between Russia and Germany

Trump closed it
Bidet removed sanctions for it
War started after sanctions removed by globalist team
Something does not compute here

Assume Biden is Russia's puppet. Then things compute better.

Biden brings back pipeline, tells Putin to do whatever he wants in Ukraine.

Or, Russia is partially China's bitch by necessity, and Biden is China's complete Bitch due to bribery and evidence of that bribery the Chinese possess.

China makes Russia a partially dependent state and guarantees itself oil and gas and coal and uranium from Russia in abundance. If Russia shows signs of independence, China suddenly starts cooperating with the West's sanctions until Russia ceases.

Russia gets a guaranteed outlet for energy and cash, along with access to the World's Factory.

China "North Koreanizes" Russia in return for a no-NATO and/or control of Ukraine.

Putin goes along with it because for historical reasons, he feels it's less humilating to be China's half-bitch than owned by Wall Street entirely down to the last nickel mine.

The other great advantage is that China can use it's half-bitch Russia to distract Europeans when it wants Aksai Chin or Taiwan.

JUST LIKE IT USES NORTH KOREA TO PESTER THE US AND JAPAN when it doesn't like what is happening, or needs to harass the US or Japan as a distraction. Always offering to be a go-between, of course.

Eric Holder says

My rule of reading is simple: once I encounter a false assertion about something I know for sure, I quit reading and it goes into trash. Because there is no telling about the veracity of the rest of it.

"Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus."

Patrick says

It is very hard to predict whether or when the people of the West will start to wake up and realise what has been happening to the world they imagine themselves to inhabit. For many years, for sundry reasons, their governments have been working assiduously to transform their societies from democracies to fascist dictatorships properly defined: power cartels of government and corporations with a view to total control. To achieve these ends, they have rotated the political left 180 degrees so that it now, without even knowing it, represents the interests of the greediest and most ruthless forces on earth. While demonising any residual voice of opposition as ‘far right’, these neo-fascist governments are prepared to deal with any bunch of extremists thugs from left or right in order to achieve their primary aim of subjugating and terrorising their populations. Now, they think to present themselves again as champions of democracy.

But the democratic West no longer exists, in any...

100% Correct.

Trudeau literally froze the bank accounts of peaceful protesters a week ago, with lots of rough handling. Some are in prison, no doubt the persecutors searched the law codes for something to charge them with, or some precedence to charge them with a more common violation based on an obscure case from 100 years ago.

In the USA, the guy who moved Pelosi's lecturn will get 60 days on top of the countless days he's served, plus $5000 fine, and of course his lawyer's fees.

Another 1/6 protester just killed himself.

The two deaths from police on 1/6, and two secret investigations vindicated both officers involved, the details hidden behind locked cabinets and banned from the public.

I tend to doubt Putin ever took any actual vaccines for Covid, which spells a bit of disinformation trying to discredit his frame of mind. He would have been too savvy about the falsity of the plandemic, much less vaccine dementia affecting him.
It is also likely that Russia has its share of oligarchs who are in on the Ukraine caper, just like the American politicians, so they would have the same motivations to smear any dislodging of the corrupt system in Ukraine. That would mean 'PutinBad' just like 'OrangeManBad'.

I doubt Putin is crazy, and he does not sound the least bit crazy when he speaks, even in translation. A true crazy person would not be able to disguise it. The 'crazy' cipher also spells a source eager to smear and is an overwrought accusation. I remember when Trump announced he would run for Pres, the press immediately saddled him with the 'crazy' moniker over and over. I had never payed much attention to Trump, but the crazy accusations are one of the first things I remember about the press not passing the smell test.

As for the nuclear trigger, all the usual corrupt characters latch on to ANY fear totem that allows room for manipulating the populace, even if it is adventitious.

I also don't see adopting a 'negotiating posture' is a sign of losing. Rather, it is admitted that the invasion has distinct goals that fall far short of entirely conquering Ukraine under the boot. I think that having a combination of ongoing military threat is simply the best way to HAVE a negotiating posture, since historically, Putin has noted that the West never negotiated in good faith without some kind of threat.