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Greeted like Liberators: Ukraine Invasion Thread
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2022 Feb 23, 8:30pm 437,324 views 4,272 comments
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1187
richwicks
2022 Jun 27, 8:28am
richwicks
2022 Jun 27, 8:28am
Bd6r says
The US doesn't support regional self-determination. Isn't Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Yemen proof of that?
The US will cynically claim regional self-determination exclusively when it's in US foreign policy interests. They entirely ignore it otherwise. The US doesn't care about self-determination although it's claimed to be a fundamental human right. The US doesn't care about human rights, just ask the people who were protesting a stolen election of which 800 are in prison right now.
Reality says
Supporting regional self-determination has long been US foreign policy.
How did it work out for Chechnya?
The US doesn't support regional self-determination. Isn't Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Yemen proof of that?
The US will cynically claim regional self-determination exclusively when it's in US foreign policy interests. They entirely ignore it otherwise. The US doesn't care about self-determination although it's claimed to be a fundamental human right. The US doesn't care about human rights, just ask the people who were protesting a stolen election of which 800 are in prison right now.
1188
mostly reader
2022 Jun 27, 9:32am
Reality says
Zelensky have said nothing that would align with "removal of an ethnic minority". His message was clearly about the country in which those people live. Then Lavrov turned it into something that it wasn't (hey, I saw this pattern before! among some of the contributors here, no further) In his usual "pee in your face and tell you that it's raining" kind of way.
I'd think that it would be too much even for him to continue yapping about suppression of Russian language. Since Russian-speaking people of Ukraine kick ass against the Rashists on the battlefield. But no, let's not those little inconveniences get in the way of good propaganda.
What you and Zelensky are advocating is called Ethnic Cleansing. Supporting regional self-determination has long been US foreign policy. In fact, in this case is worse than Ethnic Cleansing: usually Ethnic Cleansing involves the removal of an ethnic minority from a region, whereas in this case Russian speakers who don't want to be discriminated by Zelensky regime are the majority of the region.
Zelensky have said nothing that would align with "removal of an ethnic minority". His message was clearly about the country in which those people live. Then Lavrov turned it into something that it wasn't (hey, I saw this pattern before! among some of the contributors here, no further) In his usual "pee in your face and tell you that it's raining" kind of way.
I'd think that it would be too much even for him to continue yapping about suppression of Russian language. Since Russian-speaking people of Ukraine kick ass against the Rashists on the battlefield. But no, let's not those little inconveniences get in the way of good propaganda.
1189
mostly reader
2022 Jun 27, 9:47am
richwicks says
I say it like someone who repeatedly pointed it out and explained why. It wasn't hard: we now know all the details of the beginning of that hybrid war. The operatives who started it told us. In interviews. That's right, they told us themselves. Then, of course, you respond to me without reading (as you self-confessed), and I suspect that you do the same kind of data filtering for other facts that trash your worldview.
You get spanked, pretend that it didn't happen, and continue spewing your usual nonsense.
Ohhhhh! DEBONKED!! You say it like Abracadabra.
I say it like someone who repeatedly pointed it out and explained why. It wasn't hard: we now know all the details of the beginning of that hybrid war. The operatives who started it told us. In interviews. That's right, they told us themselves. Then, of course, you respond to me without reading (as you self-confessed), and I suspect that you do the same kind of data filtering for other facts that trash your worldview.
You get spanked, pretend that it didn't happen, and continue spewing your usual nonsense.
1190
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 9:55am
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 9:55am
mostly reader says
That was in Russian, which most of Patnet armchair experts do not understand. Hence, according to them this must not exist, as it goes against their deepest-held beliefs.
That's right, they told us themselves.
That was in Russian, which most of Patnet armchair experts do not understand. Hence, according to them this must not exist, as it goes against their deepest-held beliefs.
1191
richwicks
2022 Jun 27, 9:58am
richwicks
2022 Jun 27, 9:58am
mostly reader says
You are no different than a fact checker that makes a false claim then swears it's true. All you do is destroy your reputation.
The United States overthrew Ukraine in 2014. We know this for a fact because Victoria Nuland selected the next leader of Ukraine. The war in Eastern and Western Ukraine happened only a month later. The new US puppet leadership of Ukraine then began making open statements of joining NATO although neither Germany nor Italy would ever permit it.
This indicates that if the US didn't overthrow Ukraine there would have been no civil war and Russia would have never invaded Ukraine to end the civil war and to keep Ukraine out of NATO.
The war could have easily been prevented but now that it's happened, you stupidly side with the assholes that set the grounds for it. Russia will win the conflict and the result will be a lot of dead people, that didn't have to die. It's unlikely Russia will be weaker as a result, but that was the hope of the United States.
mostly reader says
Your thinking is so disjointed, so absurd, that if it happens that you were to write something that coincidentally turns out to be correct, it would poison my thinking.
Your logic and reasoning is so bad, I consider anything you write as being from a madman, and madmen can be correct occasionally. I don't want to dismiss something that is true, just because a crazy person wrote it, because you wrote it. You have consistently shown you have no regard for reality.
richwicks says
Ohhhhh! DEBONKED!! You say it like Abracadabra.
I say it like someone who repeatedly pointed it out and explained why.
You are no different than a fact checker that makes a false claim then swears it's true. All you do is destroy your reputation.
The United States overthrew Ukraine in 2014. We know this for a fact because Victoria Nuland selected the next leader of Ukraine. The war in Eastern and Western Ukraine happened only a month later. The new US puppet leadership of Ukraine then began making open statements of joining NATO although neither Germany nor Italy would ever permit it.
This indicates that if the US didn't overthrow Ukraine there would have been no civil war and Russia would have never invaded Ukraine to end the civil war and to keep Ukraine out of NATO.
The war could have easily been prevented but now that it's happened, you stupidly side with the assholes that set the grounds for it. Russia will win the conflict and the result will be a lot of dead people, that didn't have to die. It's unlikely Russia will be weaker as a result, but that was the hope of the United States.
mostly reader says
you respond to me without reading (as you self-confessed),
Your thinking is so disjointed, so absurd, that if it happens that you were to write something that coincidentally turns out to be correct, it would poison my thinking.
Your logic and reasoning is so bad, I consider anything you write as being from a madman, and madmen can be correct occasionally. I don't want to dismiss something that is true, just because a crazy person wrote it, because you wrote it. You have consistently shown you have no regard for reality.
1192
mostly reader
2022 Jun 27, 10:25am
Bd6r says
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. It doesn't help if the horse wears blinders.
Why do I think about Lavrov when I write about horses?
Hence, according to them this must not exist, as it goes against their deepest-held beliefs.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. It doesn't help if the horse wears blinders.
Why do I think about Lavrov when I write about horses?
1193
mostly reader
2022 Jun 27, 10:29am
richwicks says
A better explanation is that you are so invested in your worldview that you experience physical pain when it comes down crumbling. The horse that wears blinders shouldn't be surprised that it gets whipped every once in a while.
Your thinking is so disjointed, so absurd, that if it happens that you were to write something that coincidentally turns out to be correct, it would poison my thinking.
A better explanation is that you are so invested in your worldview that you experience physical pain when it comes down crumbling. The horse that wears blinders shouldn't be surprised that it gets whipped every once in a while.
1194
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 10:32am
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 10:32am
mostly reader says
Because he has a horse-like face and his intellect is probably less than that of an average horse?
Bd6r says
Hence, according to them this must not exist, as it goes against their deepest-held beliefs.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. It doesn't help if the horse wears blinders.
Why do I think about Lavrov when I write about horses?
Because he has a horse-like face and his intellect is probably less than that of an average horse?
1195
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 10:36am
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 10:36am
About persons who think that talking to Russia is useful, here is an opinion of someone who knows Russia/Putler very well. Why do you think he behaves differently in Ukraine?
https://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2005/06/20/35300/m--udugov-rossiya-dolzhna-byt-vzyata-pod-vneshnee-upravlenie.shtml
As for Putin, there are all signs of a classic war criminal and international terrorist. Putin carried out military aggression against a sovereign state, violating the Russian-Chechen peace treaty. Putin killed a quarter of a million civilians, that is, 25% of the entire Chechen people. Putin killed tens of thousands of Chechen children of preschool and school age, declaring all children from the age of 10 terrorists. Putin has organized and is carrying out the genocide of the Chechen people. Putin carried out a terrorist act outside of Russia in a foreign country, killing the ex-president of the CRI Yandarbiev, using the diplomatic mail of the Russian Foreign Ministry to transfer explosives to Qatar. Putin carried out a terrorist act on the territory of the CRI, killing President Maskhadov. Putin has carried out and continues to carry out the murders of Chechen politicians and public figures abroad and on the territory of the CRI. Putin carries out mass kidnappings. Putin initiated the creation in Chechnya and in Russia of torture concentration camps, bandit terrorist formations and "death squadrons". Putin gave the order to poison people in Nord-Ost and to shoot children in Beslan with tanks and flamethrowers.
The question must be put in a completely different way - no negotiations can be held with Putin. The condition for negotiations with Russia should be not only the withdrawal of troops, but also the arrest and extradition of Putin to Chechen law enforcement agencies. Any accusations against Basayev, if anyone has them, can be considered exclusively by the laws of the Chechen State.
Putin is no match for Basayev, they cannot be put on the same level. Putin is a war criminal, a serial killer who has committed crimes against humanity. Basayev is the defender of his Fatherland, who resorts to forced measures in order to stop the mass extermination of his people.
A crisis has matured in Russia, and an explosion is only a matter of time. Russia under Putin is increasingly slipping into the league of failed states. By all indications, it is clear that the regime is concerned about its future and is ready to fight for its survival. It is difficult to predict what will come to mind of its leaders at the time of the crisis.
Taking into account the fact that this regime has weapons of mass destruction in its hands, which are being squandered uncontrollably (and these facts are known to exist), there should already be an emergency anti-crisis plan to establish an international administration in Moscow, to send special troops to high-risk facilities, isolation of the most odious military and political figures.
https://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2005/06/20/35300/m--udugov-rossiya-dolzhna-byt-vzyata-pod-vneshnee-upravlenie.shtml
As for Putin, there are all signs of a classic war criminal and international terrorist. Putin carried out military aggression against a sovereign state, violating the Russian-Chechen peace treaty. Putin killed a quarter of a million civilians, that is, 25% of the entire Chechen people. Putin killed tens of thousands of Chechen children of preschool and school age, declaring all children from the age of 10 terrorists. Putin has organized and is carrying out the genocide of the Chechen people. Putin carried out a terrorist act outside of Russia in a foreign country, killing the ex-president of the CRI Yandarbiev, using the diplomatic mail of the Russian Foreign Ministry to transfer explosives to Qatar. Putin carried out a terrorist act on the territory of the CRI, killing President Maskhadov. Putin has carried out and continues to carry out the murders of Chechen politicians and public figures abroad and on the territory of the CRI. Putin carries out mass kidnappings. Putin initiated the creation in Chechnya and in Russia of torture concentration camps, bandit terrorist formations and "death squadrons". Putin gave the order to poison people in Nord-Ost and to shoot children in Beslan with tanks and flamethrowers.
The question must be put in a completely different way - no negotiations can be held with Putin. The condition for negotiations with Russia should be not only the withdrawal of troops, but also the arrest and extradition of Putin to Chechen law enforcement agencies. Any accusations against Basayev, if anyone has them, can be considered exclusively by the laws of the Chechen State.
Putin is no match for Basayev, they cannot be put on the same level. Putin is a war criminal, a serial killer who has committed crimes against humanity. Basayev is the defender of his Fatherland, who resorts to forced measures in order to stop the mass extermination of his people.
A crisis has matured in Russia, and an explosion is only a matter of time. Russia under Putin is increasingly slipping into the league of failed states. By all indications, it is clear that the regime is concerned about its future and is ready to fight for its survival. It is difficult to predict what will come to mind of its leaders at the time of the crisis.
Taking into account the fact that this regime has weapons of mass destruction in its hands, which are being squandered uncontrollably (and these facts are known to exist), there should already be an emergency anti-crisis plan to establish an international administration in Moscow, to send special troops to high-risk facilities, isolation of the most odious military and political figures.
1196
mell
2022 Jun 27, 2:02pm
One can be willing to consider that Putin has broken his word quite a few times and therefore is not the best person to negotiate with, but one cannot argue with people claiming the Ukraine was not overthrown in 2014 with the help of the US to install a US friendly, corrupt puppet-government - look no further to xiden and burisma. Both can be true at the same time. So don't gaslight and be obtuse about the overthrow, it does not help the arguments. Also, should you truly believe this was the will of the Ukrainian people then you should be happy about the Russians and Ukrainians of Russian ethnicity asserting themselves in the donetsk and luhansk region, just fighting for the government they want. Meanwhile people continue to die without any serious negotiation efforts.
1197
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 2:42pm
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 2:42pm
mell says
therefore negotiating with him is pointless, as Chechens have repeatedly stated from their own experience.
mell says
We don't know that, may be the plurality were for Ukraine, or did not care.
mell says
That gubbermint was voted out a few yrs ago in an extremely acrimonious election
therefore is not the best person to negotiate with
therefore negotiating with him is pointless, as Chechens have repeatedly stated from their own experience.
mell says
Russians and Ukrainians of Russian ethnicity asserting themselves in the donetsk and luhansk region, just fighting for the government they want.
We don't know that, may be the plurality were for Ukraine, or did not care.
mell says
Ukraine was not overthrown in 2014 with the help of the US to install a US friendly, corrupt puppet-government
That gubbermint was voted out a few yrs ago in an extremely acrimonious election
1198
Patrick
2022 Jun 27, 3:03pm
Patrick
2022 Jun 27, 3:03pm
Bd6r says
It seems unlikely to me that the Ukrainian government was legitimately elected either before or after 2014. In the first case, I expect Russia placed a Russia-friendly guy in power, and in the second case I expect the US placed a US-friendly guy in power.
The Ukrainian voters probably had little say in it either way. Kind of like with American voters in 2020.
mell says
Ukraine was not overthrown in 2014 with the help of the US to install a US friendly, corrupt puppet-government
That gubbermint was voted out a few yrs ago in an extremely acrimonious election
It seems unlikely to me that the Ukrainian government was legitimately elected either before or after 2014. In the first case, I expect Russia placed a Russia-friendly guy in power, and in the second case I expect the US placed a US-friendly guy in power.
The Ukrainian voters probably had little say in it either way. Kind of like with American voters in 2020.
1199
mell
2022 Jun 27, 3:51pm
Patrick says
Agreed. What is the difference though between people "uprising and overthrowing" their government in the Ukraine vs in donbass or crimea? None. Talking pre Putin war of course, the situation has been volatile in those regions for many years.
Bd6r says
mell says
Ukraine was not overthrown in 2014 with the help of the US to install a US friendly, corrupt puppet-government
That gubbermint was voted out a few yrs ago in an extremely acrimonious election
It seems unlikely to me that the Ukrainian government was legitimately elected either before or after 2014. In the first case, I expect Russia placed a Russia-friendly guy in power, and in the second case I expect the US placed a US-friendly guy in power.
The Ukrainian voters probably had little say in it either way. Kind of like with American voters in 2020.
Agreed. What is the difference though between people "uprising and overthrowing" their government in the Ukraine vs in donbass or crimea? None. Talking pre Putin war of course, the situation has been volatile in those regions for many years.
1200
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 4:02pm
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 4:02pm
mell says
illegitimate presence of foreign troops in Donbass and Crimea.
What is the difference though between people "uprising and overthrowing" their government in the Ukraine vs in donbass or crimea?
illegitimate presence of foreign troops in Donbass and Crimea.
1201
richwicks
2022 Jun 27, 4:07pm
richwicks
2022 Jun 27, 4:07pm
mostly reader says
I have repeatedly pointed out that all there is left to do is wait with regard to the Ukraine / Russian conflict.
My "worldview", as you call it, is that the US Federal government is run by a bunch of stupid assholes that continually lie to the US public, about literally everything. Since they are telling what remains of the stupid public that is dumb enough to still listen to them, that Ukraine will be successful in this war, from that alone I judge it false.
But we will know in time, won't we? I'm perfectly happy to wait.
A better explanation is that you are so invested in your worldview that you experience physical pain when it comes down crumbling.
I have repeatedly pointed out that all there is left to do is wait with regard to the Ukraine / Russian conflict.
My "worldview", as you call it, is that the US Federal government is run by a bunch of stupid assholes that continually lie to the US public, about literally everything. Since they are telling what remains of the stupid public that is dumb enough to still listen to them, that Ukraine will be successful in this war, from that alone I judge it false.
But we will know in time, won't we? I'm perfectly happy to wait.
1202
richwicks
2022 Jun 27, 4:12pm
richwicks
2022 Jun 27, 4:12pm
Bd6r says
As soon as I see stupidity like "Putler" I just conclude I'm reading the writings of an idiot because they are trying to control my thinking as if I'm an 8 year old child.
Grow the fuck up if you have anything serious to write or communicate.
About persons who think that talking to Russia is useful, here is an opinion of someone who knows Russia/Putler
As soon as I see stupidity like "Putler" I just conclude I'm reading the writings of an idiot because they are trying to control my thinking as if I'm an 8 year old child.
Grow the fuck up if you have anything serious to write or communicate.
1203
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 4:30pm
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 4:30pm
richwicks says
Like you did when you predicted that Putler will not attack Ukraine? Or when you claimed that there were no Russian troops in Donbass in 2014? Or that Crimea had 90% Russian population?
Grow the fuck up if you have anything serious to write or communicate.
Like you did when you predicted that Putler will not attack Ukraine? Or when you claimed that there were no Russian troops in Donbass in 2014? Or that Crimea had 90% Russian population?
1204
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 4:34pm
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 4:34pm
And I am really sorry for hurting your feelings by misnaming your favorite politician. In same vein I am so sorry also for misnaming Bidet.
1205
richwicks
2022 Jun 27, 4:59pm
richwicks
2022 Jun 27, 4:59pm
Bd6r says
You didn't hurt my feelings of course, or name my favorite politician, which I think is still Ron Paul.
You engaged in stupidity. Stop doing that.
Everybody, and I mean literally everybody our dumb fucking government of incompetents and criminals hates is compared to Hitler. Hussein was, Qaddafi was, Assad was, Ahmadinejad was, it's tiresome and it's not serious. Grow the fuck up.
I'm so fucking tired of this bullshit after 20 years of it. "Oh, our fucking criminal government that has murdered 20 million people over the course of 20 years over endless bullshit, called X HITLER!!!! OH MY! I must hate him, because I'm fucking stupid!!!"
When the same, stupid, fucking, OBVIOUS trick has been played on you for two GRUELING decades, stop falling for it. Come up with a new trick, ancient fucking decrepit assholes. If you're going to do and repeat propaganda, at least put in some minor amount of fucking effort into it. I'm not even asking for major effort, just stop calling everybody that the US federal government of assholes wants us to hate "hitler". Do better.
You could call him Stalin for example, or Lenin, but that might alienate the stupid communist soy boy twats. Well, maybe you should give them up.
And I am really sorry for hurting your feelings by misnaming your favorite politician.
You didn't hurt my feelings of course, or name my favorite politician, which I think is still Ron Paul.
You engaged in stupidity. Stop doing that.
Everybody, and I mean literally everybody our dumb fucking government of incompetents and criminals hates is compared to Hitler. Hussein was, Qaddafi was, Assad was, Ahmadinejad was, it's tiresome and it's not serious. Grow the fuck up.
I'm so fucking tired of this bullshit after 20 years of it. "Oh, our fucking criminal government that has murdered 20 million people over the course of 20 years over endless bullshit, called X HITLER!!!! OH MY! I must hate him, because I'm fucking stupid!!!"
When the same, stupid, fucking, OBVIOUS trick has been played on you for two GRUELING decades, stop falling for it. Come up with a new trick, ancient fucking decrepit assholes. If you're going to do and repeat propaganda, at least put in some minor amount of fucking effort into it. I'm not even asking for major effort, just stop calling everybody that the US federal government of assholes wants us to hate "hitler". Do better.
You could call him Stalin for example, or Lenin, but that might alienate the stupid communist soy boy twats. Well, maybe you should give them up.
1206
richwicks
2022 Jun 27, 5:39pm
richwicks
2022 Jun 27, 5:39pm
Bd6r says
Well, I did do that, I don't know if I did it here, but I didn't think "Putler" would attack Ukraine.
I was wrong. Oh well.
See? I can do something that is unthinkable to you, I can admit error.
richwicks says
Grow the fuck up if you have anything serious to write or communicate.
Like you did when you predicted that Putler will not attack Ukraine?
Well, I did do that, I don't know if I did it here, but I didn't think "Putler" would attack Ukraine.
I was wrong. Oh well.
See? I can do something that is unthinkable to you, I can admit error.
1207
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 7:19pm
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 7:19pm
richwicks says
How about 90% Russians in Crimea, or your claims that Russian troops were not in Donbass in 2014, which you argued about vehemently?
All of this shows that you have little if any clue about what goes on in that part of the world.
Well, I did do that, I don't know if I did it here, but I didn't think "Putler" would attack Ukraine.
How about 90% Russians in Crimea, or your claims that Russian troops were not in Donbass in 2014, which you argued about vehemently?
All of this shows that you have little if any clue about what goes on in that part of the world.
1208
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 7:22pm
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 7:22pm
richwicks says
If you can come up with a funny combination of Putin +Stalin I would use that. They both end in -in unfortunately
You could call him Stalin for example, or Lenin,
If you can come up with a funny combination of Putin +Stalin I would use that. They both end in -in unfortunately
1209
Ceffer
2022 Jun 27, 7:56pm
Ceffer
2022 Jun 27, 7:56pm
"It is being reported that already 50,000 Ukrainian soldier have died in the war. How many more needs to die to obey the globalist masters?"
That's the bloody question to this bloody waste of life.
https://youtu.be/NTpS7Z60frA
That's the bloody question to this bloody waste of life.
https://youtu.be/NTpS7Z60frA
1210
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 8:21pm
Bd6r
2022 Jun 27, 8:21pm
Q: what is the reason why Poland has provided Ukraine with 250 main battle tanks, hundreds of thousands of artillery shells, about a hundred howitzers, MANPADS, and a lot of small arms? And, at the same time, shows that negotiating with the Putler regime is pointless stupidity?
Answer can be found here, and is related to Russian terror act which resulted in killing Polish President and about 100 military in 2010 on Russian territory near Smolensk.
https://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2010/05/19/72501/KATyn-2--nezavisimye-eksperty-rasskazali-versiyu-kak-byl-ubit-kachinskij-i-vysshee-rukovodstvo-polshi.shtml
Fake NDB beacons were installed, with which the pilots in the Russian Il-76 misled the Polish pilot about the distance, as well as the level of deviation from the plane of the airport (the Russians could install a fake beacon 2 km away, where there were two real beacons, on which the Polish plane landed ).
If this was a planned terrorist attack, then the fog must have been artificial (a mysterious plane flying over the airport two hours before the crash).
After the crash, special events were held to cover up some inconvenient facts.
Given these facts, the following scenario emerges:
6:40 a.m. A mysterious plane begins to circle over the airport, coinciding with the rising fog.
7:15 Yak lands with Polish journalists.
7:30 A Polish presidential plane takes off from Warsaw.
7:35 Mobile beacons set to false position.
8:30 A Polish presidential plane and a Russian Il-76 circle over the airport. The tower decides that the Russian plane will land first, the plane additionally circles over the Polish one and goes to land (10 km from the airport), the standard distance between them in these conditions is about 6-10 km, which corresponds in time to 1.5 to 2 minutes.
08:37-45 IL-76 Russian aircraft begins to approach the ground (10 km from the airport), operators turn on false beacons when IL is between the first and second beacons to deceive the NDB of the Polish pilot. In addition, the first false beacon (7.1) is set approximately 1000 m below the actual landing plane. At the same time, the GPS system is disabled.
08:38:45 A Russian aircraft passes the NDB of the beacon at a distance of 6.1 km, begins to aim at false targets of the NDB signal of the beacon 2.1 km from the runway and 150 m below the airport level.
08:38:53 Polish plane starts landing approach. It is located 10 km from the airstrip. Receives signal from false NDB (set 7.1 km from the runway and about 1 km from the center of the airport). The Polish pilot begins to focus on the false signal sent by the beacon.
08:39:35 At a distance of 2.1 km from the airport, the aircraft receives a false signal from the Russian Il-76 NDB and begins to descend for landing.
08:39:43 At a distance of 7.1 km from the airport and a deviation from the runway of about 1 km, the Polish pilot receives a false signal at an altitude of about 300 meters from the second NDB beacon (2.1 km from the airport and with a deviation of 150 m from the runway).
08:39:47 Russian plane damages the NDB beacon (1.1 km, no problem, because the beacon is jammed).
8:39:50 A Russian Il-76 aircraft hits a power line at a distance of 1 km from the airport and cuts it off.
08:39:52 The Russian plane leans to the side to avoid hitting a tree. The tree is cut at an angle (135 degrees or 45) and manages to avoid a collision.
08:40:02 With the same one-wing tilt, the Russian plane almost collides with one of the planes standing at the airport, and, in accordance with the recommendations of the tower, flies back to Moscow.
8:40:10 Airport traffic controllers are shocked. They did not understand what the Russian Il-76 aircraft did, and once again strongly recommend that the Polish pilot fly to another airport.
08:41:02 The Polish plane hits a large birch tree, loses a significant part of the left wing, and the pilot lost control of the plane.
08:41:04-08 a Polish plane crashes, 300 meters from the airport and 150 meters below its level.
8:41 Russian air traffic controllers are shocked, they already know that something is wrong. It is virtually impossible for two pilots to make the same mistake. They begin to fear for their lives, do not turn on the siren and do not know what to do.
This scenario allows you to point to pilot error as the cause of the crash.
08:42-56 A pre-trained special forces group arrives at the crash site without raising an alarm. The terrorists are taking extra measures to ensure the death of all passengers and crew members. Undermine the fuselage of hard-to-break material. Engage in a firefight with armed BOR officers or Polish generals. They burn their bodies so that they do not leave traces of gunshot wounds.
08:55-56 At the crash site is a mysterious man who is filming the first film from the crash site.
8:56 After the crash site has been cordoned off, a siren sounds to start rescue work.
8:59 Firefighters arrive at the crash site.
9:00 Polish cameraman Wisniewski directs to the crash site and approaches it from the side opposite from that of the mysterious author of the first film. At the end of the film you can already see the extinguishing of the fire.
Answer can be found here, and is related to Russian terror act which resulted in killing Polish President and about 100 military in 2010 on Russian territory near Smolensk.
https://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2010/05/19/72501/KATyn-2--nezavisimye-eksperty-rasskazali-versiyu-kak-byl-ubit-kachinskij-i-vysshee-rukovodstvo-polshi.shtml
Fake NDB beacons were installed, with which the pilots in the Russian Il-76 misled the Polish pilot about the distance, as well as the level of deviation from the plane of the airport (the Russians could install a fake beacon 2 km away, where there were two real beacons, on which the Polish plane landed ).
If this was a planned terrorist attack, then the fog must have been artificial (a mysterious plane flying over the airport two hours before the crash).
After the crash, special events were held to cover up some inconvenient facts.
Given these facts, the following scenario emerges:
6:40 a.m. A mysterious plane begins to circle over the airport, coinciding with the rising fog.
7:15 Yak lands with Polish journalists.
7:30 A Polish presidential plane takes off from Warsaw.
7:35 Mobile beacons set to false position.
8:30 A Polish presidential plane and a Russian Il-76 circle over the airport. The tower decides that the Russian plane will land first, the plane additionally circles over the Polish one and goes to land (10 km from the airport), the standard distance between them in these conditions is about 6-10 km, which corresponds in time to 1.5 to 2 minutes.
08:37-45 IL-76 Russian aircraft begins to approach the ground (10 km from the airport), operators turn on false beacons when IL is between the first and second beacons to deceive the NDB of the Polish pilot. In addition, the first false beacon (7.1) is set approximately 1000 m below the actual landing plane. At the same time, the GPS system is disabled.
08:38:45 A Russian aircraft passes the NDB of the beacon at a distance of 6.1 km, begins to aim at false targets of the NDB signal of the beacon 2.1 km from the runway and 150 m below the airport level.
08:38:53 Polish plane starts landing approach. It is located 10 km from the airstrip. Receives signal from false NDB (set 7.1 km from the runway and about 1 km from the center of the airport). The Polish pilot begins to focus on the false signal sent by the beacon.
08:39:35 At a distance of 2.1 km from the airport, the aircraft receives a false signal from the Russian Il-76 NDB and begins to descend for landing.
08:39:43 At a distance of 7.1 km from the airport and a deviation from the runway of about 1 km, the Polish pilot receives a false signal at an altitude of about 300 meters from the second NDB beacon (2.1 km from the airport and with a deviation of 150 m from the runway).
08:39:47 Russian plane damages the NDB beacon (1.1 km, no problem, because the beacon is jammed).
8:39:50 A Russian Il-76 aircraft hits a power line at a distance of 1 km from the airport and cuts it off.
08:39:52 The Russian plane leans to the side to avoid hitting a tree. The tree is cut at an angle (135 degrees or 45) and manages to avoid a collision.
08:40:02 With the same one-wing tilt, the Russian plane almost collides with one of the planes standing at the airport, and, in accordance with the recommendations of the tower, flies back to Moscow.
8:40:10 Airport traffic controllers are shocked. They did not understand what the Russian Il-76 aircraft did, and once again strongly recommend that the Polish pilot fly to another airport.
08:41:02 The Polish plane hits a large birch tree, loses a significant part of the left wing, and the pilot lost control of the plane.
08:41:04-08 a Polish plane crashes, 300 meters from the airport and 150 meters below its level.
8:41 Russian air traffic controllers are shocked, they already know that something is wrong. It is virtually impossible for two pilots to make the same mistake. They begin to fear for their lives, do not turn on the siren and do not know what to do.
This scenario allows you to point to pilot error as the cause of the crash.
08:42-56 A pre-trained special forces group arrives at the crash site without raising an alarm. The terrorists are taking extra measures to ensure the death of all passengers and crew members. Undermine the fuselage of hard-to-break material. Engage in a firefight with armed BOR officers or Polish generals. They burn their bodies so that they do not leave traces of gunshot wounds.
08:55-56 At the crash site is a mysterious man who is filming the first film from the crash site.
8:56 After the crash site has been cordoned off, a siren sounds to start rescue work.
8:59 Firefighters arrive at the crash site.
9:00 Polish cameraman Wisniewski directs to the crash site and approaches it from the side opposite from that of the mysterious author of the first film. At the end of the film you can already see the extinguishing of the fire.
1211
mostly reader
2022 Jun 27, 9:26pm
richwicks says
Nice diversion, but no. That "Western Ukraine just needs to stop attacking Eastern Ukraine" horseshit, among other things, categorizes you as either an doofus with a worldview or a propagandist.
My "worldview", as you call it, is that the US Federal government is run by a bunch of stupid assholes that continually lie to the US public, about literally everything.
Nice diversion, but no. That "Western Ukraine just needs to stop attacking Eastern Ukraine" horseshit, among other things, categorizes you as either an doofus with a worldview or a propagandist.
1212
mostly reader
2022 Jun 27, 9:30pm
Bd6r says
If he would only look up the word ultracrepidarian and realize how well it fits. But then again, if he could realize that then I wouldn't recommend that he looks it up.
All of this shows that you have little if any clue about what goes on in that part of the world.
If he would only look up the word ultracrepidarian and realize how well it fits. But then again, if he could realize that then I wouldn't recommend that he looks it up.
1213
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Jun 27, 9:42pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2022 Jun 27, 9:42pm
So if Red Man Bad! What does that make the rest of the world given the result of "sanctions" has been the strengthening of Russia's economy..?
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=RUB&view=1Y
I don't give two shits about Russia, except that they granted asylum to Snowden, versus England who is turning Assange over to the US to finish killing slowing in prison. And this is the problem for me. If you guy are all right, and Russia is so bad, stupid, poor, and losing, yet they're the ones granting our patriots sanctuary, they're experiencing the opposite of the inflation we're getting. And the countries lined up against them like England and the US are torturing innocent journalists to death. I mean if they're such shit, yet Russia is doing these things so much better than the countries you support...
I just don't see how you can so vehemently hate one side when the other does stuff just as bad and stupid, and is on it's way to becoming just as poor, because we're losing so badly.
I mean you guys are Americans. So where's your threads, and endless comments about how fucked up things are here? More importantly, what are you doing about it? Cuz love or hate Russia, it's fucking meaningless. YOU DON'T LIVE THERE! You live here, and we need help, badly.
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=RUB&view=1Y
I don't give two shits about Russia, except that they granted asylum to Snowden, versus England who is turning Assange over to the US to finish killing slowing in prison. And this is the problem for me. If you guy are all right, and Russia is so bad, stupid, poor, and losing, yet they're the ones granting our patriots sanctuary, they're experiencing the opposite of the inflation we're getting. And the countries lined up against them like England and the US are torturing innocent journalists to death. I mean if they're such shit, yet Russia is doing these things so much better than the countries you support...
I just don't see how you can so vehemently hate one side when the other does stuff just as bad and stupid, and is on it's way to becoming just as poor, because we're losing so badly.
I mean you guys are Americans. So where's your threads, and endless comments about how fucked up things are here? More importantly, what are you doing about it? Cuz love or hate Russia, it's fucking meaningless. YOU DON'T LIVE THERE! You live here, and we need help, badly.
1214
mostly reader
2022 Jun 28, 7:46am
NuttBoxer says
Because nothing proves your patriotism like bitching to the choir?
Btw, just so you know. There are people with valid grievances and then there are those who capitalize on other people having valid grievances. The latter could be either trolls/propagandists or perhaps agency workers baiting for whatever (you can call them master baitors) It's not always easy to tell them all apart.
I mean you guys are Americans. So where's your threads, and endless comments about how fucked up things are here?
Because nothing proves your patriotism like bitching to the choir?
Btw, just so you know. There are people with valid grievances and then there are those who capitalize on other people having valid grievances. The latter could be either trolls/propagandists or perhaps agency workers baiting for whatever (you can call them master baitors) It's not always easy to tell them all apart.
1215
Bd6r
2022 Jun 28, 10:15am
Bd6r
2022 Jun 28, 10:15am
NuttBoxer says
I believe I have never said that SENILE MAN GOOD. Nearly everyone on Patnet agrees with this, and if I post 320 threads with this, it would be preaching to choir as they say.
About Snowden, good for him and I am happy that Russia gave him asylum, even though reason likely was to stick it to US and show duplicity of US propaganda. They should give him Nobel Peace prize together wits Assange, but this likely will not happen (Assange has been nominated three times but Nobel committee has no balls).
About Red Man Bad, I am annoyed that Patnetters who have nearly no idea about what goes on there and think of Putler as a force for good. Russia was one of first countries to develop The Jab (TM), there were certain vaccine mandates, they talk about centralized digital currencies, in nearly everything they are a mirror image of what happens here. Also, we now know that Biden Jr and by extension Bidet Sr most definitely was compromised by Russians (via prostitutes for Hunter) - not Orange man Bad who had no dealings with them despite our media shouting it from rooftops for many years.
One interesting and perhaps useful idea from your post @NuttBoxer is what can we do as individuals to try to change the situation here. I'll post a separate thread for this.
I don't give two shits about Russia, except that they granted asylum to Snowden, versus England who is turning Assange over to the US to finish killing slowing in prison. And this is the problem for me. If you guy are all right, and Russia is so bad, stupid, poor, and losing, yet they're the ones granting our patriots sanctuary, they're experiencing the opposite of the inflation we're getting. And the countries lined up against them like England and the US are torturing innocent journalists to death. I mean if they're such shit, yet Russia is doing these things so much better than the countries you support...
I just don't see how you can so vehemently hate one side when the other does stuff just as bad and stupid, and is on it's way to becoming just as poor, because we're losing so badly.
I mean you guys are Americans. So where's your threads, and endless comments about how fucked up things are here? More importantly, what are you doing about it? Cuz love or hate Russia, it's fucking...
I believe I have never said that SENILE MAN GOOD. Nearly everyone on Patnet agrees with this, and if I post 320 threads with this, it would be preaching to choir as they say.
About Snowden, good for him and I am happy that Russia gave him asylum, even though reason likely was to stick it to US and show duplicity of US propaganda. They should give him Nobel Peace prize together wits Assange, but this likely will not happen (Assange has been nominated three times but Nobel committee has no balls).
About Red Man Bad, I am annoyed that Patnetters who have nearly no idea about what goes on there and think of Putler as a force for good. Russia was one of first countries to develop The Jab (TM), there were certain vaccine mandates, they talk about centralized digital currencies, in nearly everything they are a mirror image of what happens here. Also, we now know that Biden Jr and by extension Bidet Sr most definitely was compromised by Russians (via prostitutes for Hunter) - not Orange man Bad who had no dealings with them despite our media shouting it from rooftops for many years.
One interesting and perhaps useful idea from your post @NuttBoxer is what can we do as individuals to try to change the situation here. I'll post a separate thread for this.
1216
HeadSet
2022 Jun 28, 12:45pm
HeadSet
2022 Jun 28, 12:45pm
Bd6r says
How do you disable the GPS system? GPS is strictly satellites and on-plane equipment. Nothing for the Russians to disable at the airport. Perhaps the author meant ILS. An ILS (Instrument Landing System) is used for precision approaches and incorporates glide path and distance guidance. ILS is ground based at the airport itself. Also, that NDB (non-directional beacon) you mentioned is a very old and very primitive system. NDB cannot be used for a precision landing approach, and thus any airport approach based on NDB would be in high visibility conditions where the pilot could see the ground. Also, aircraft like the Tu-154 have radar altimeters that indicate height above the ground, as well as regular altimeters that display height above sea level, and the pilots know the airport elevation.
Maybe the Russians faked an ILS (or equivalent) away from the airport, but no way this would work using fake NDBs. Even so, if the pilots do not see the runway when 100 ft above the ground (indicated altitude), they go around. So the fake place would need to have a terrain elevation 100 ft above the airport's elevation. And even then the radar altimeter would warn loudly are less than 100 ft above the dirt.
Bd6r says
Now this is total bunk. If they moved the NDB to a location 2.1 km away to a place with an elevation 150 meters below the airport, the pilots would just be that much higher above the ground when they aborted the approach. And that is if NDB is a mistranslation and it really was an advanced ILS system.
At the same time, the GPS system is disabled.
How do you disable the GPS system? GPS is strictly satellites and on-plane equipment. Nothing for the Russians to disable at the airport. Perhaps the author meant ILS. An ILS (Instrument Landing System) is used for precision approaches and incorporates glide path and distance guidance. ILS is ground based at the airport itself. Also, that NDB (non-directional beacon) you mentioned is a very old and very primitive system. NDB cannot be used for a precision landing approach, and thus any airport approach based on NDB would be in high visibility conditions where the pilot could see the ground. Also, aircraft like the Tu-154 have radar altimeters that indicate height above the ground, as well as regular altimeters that display height above sea level, and the pilots know the airport elevation.
Maybe the Russians faked an ILS (or equivalent) away from the airport, but no way this would work using fake NDBs. Even so, if the pilots do not see the runway when 100 ft above the ground (indicated altitude), they go around. So the fake place would need to have a terrain elevation 100 ft above the airport's elevation. And even then the radar altimeter would warn loudly are less than 100 ft above the dirt.
Bd6r says
08:38:45 A Russian aircraft passes the NDB of the beacon at a distance of 6.1 km, begins to aim at false targets of the NDB signal of the beacon 2.1 km from the runway and 150 m below the airport level.
Now this is total bunk. If they moved the NDB to a location 2.1 km away to a place with an elevation 150 meters below the airport, the pilots would just be that much higher above the ground when they aborted the approach. And that is if NDB is a mistranslation and it really was an advanced ILS system.
1218
richwicks
2022 Jun 28, 7:27pm
richwicks
2022 Jun 28, 7:27pm
mostly reader says
No, they don't need to do "just" that. I get so sick of your strawmen.
Russia has said NATO entering Ukraine is an existential threat, and has been saying this for over 8 years. They don't care about people in the Donbass, but it's good propaganda for them to justify the war because Russians can be made to care about the people in the Donbass.
The goal of the United States is to weaken Russian both economically and militarily. Europe however has dependency on Russian oil and natural gas for energy, so time is on their side. The US is more than willing to supply energy at exorbitant prices though and has the public relations power to convince stupid Europeans that they are doing the right thing paying 3-4 times the price for energy.
The goal of Russia WAS to cooperate with Europe to sell commodities, but Europe is a puppet of the United States, and finally Russia is realizing it's not worthwhile to attempt to work with them. It's not like Europe or the United States produces anything Russia needs, they are basically entirely self sufficient at this point. Europe and the United States are not.
Time will tell regardless.
richwicks says
My "worldview", as you call it, is that the US Federal government is run by a bunch of stupid assholes that continually lie to the US public, about literally everything.
Nice diversion, but no. That "Western Ukraine just needs to stop attacking Eastern Ukraine" horseshit,
No, they don't need to do "just" that. I get so sick of your strawmen.
Russia has said NATO entering Ukraine is an existential threat, and has been saying this for over 8 years. They don't care about people in the Donbass, but it's good propaganda for them to justify the war because Russians can be made to care about the people in the Donbass.
The goal of the United States is to weaken Russian both economically and militarily. Europe however has dependency on Russian oil and natural gas for energy, so time is on their side. The US is more than willing to supply energy at exorbitant prices though and has the public relations power to convince stupid Europeans that they are doing the right thing paying 3-4 times the price for energy.
The goal of Russia WAS to cooperate with Europe to sell commodities, but Europe is a puppet of the United States, and finally Russia is realizing it's not worthwhile to attempt to work with them. It's not like Europe or the United States produces anything Russia needs, they are basically entirely self sufficient at this point. Europe and the United States are not.
Time will tell regardless.
1219
mostly reader
2022 Jun 28, 9:17pm
richwicks says
"I think the only reasonable way to end this is for Ukraine to remain neutral and for Western Ukraine to stop attacking Eastern Ukraine." - this is your exact quote. Sure, I added "just", but it seems just. The entire assertion about Western Ukraine being the aggressor is invalid. Your verbal diarrhea of propagandist cliches (Rashist style) does nothing to support that assertion and demonstrates that you can't hold a coherent thought.
In short - cry me a river.
__
Edit, so that I don't have to get up twice:
richwicks says
It wasn't. It is now, and Russia has no one to blame but itself. You know what it means when they start cracking jokes about bare-chested Putin at the G7 table: he's been written off.
No, they don't need to do "just" that. I get so sick of your strawmen.
"I think the only reasonable way to end this is for Ukraine to remain neutral and for Western Ukraine to stop attacking Eastern Ukraine." - this is your exact quote. Sure, I added "just", but it seems just. The entire assertion about Western Ukraine being the aggressor is invalid. Your verbal diarrhea of propagandist cliches (Rashist style) does nothing to support that assertion and demonstrates that you can't hold a coherent thought.
In short - cry me a river.
__
Edit, so that I don't have to get up twice:
richwicks says
The goal of the United States is to weaken Russian both economically and militarily.
It wasn't. It is now, and Russia has no one to blame but itself. You know what it means when they start cracking jokes about bare-chested Putin at the G7 table: he's been written off.
1220
richwicks
2022 Jun 29, 3:57am
richwicks
2022 Jun 29, 3:57am
mostly reader says
Yes, but you claimed I said:
richwicks says
All you do is argue and lie. It's tiresome.
What do you think the goals are of Russia attacking Ukraine? What is their military objective? I think it's primarily to keep NATO out. Current US propaganda claims that Russia is trying to rebuild the USSR, a nation that already has 11 timezones to deal with. They could have easily taken over Georgia, and didn't.
I think there's going to be mission creep now. I expect they want to kick the Americans out, permanently. Russia has already put a bunch of Zionists firmly under their thumb for the last 20 years, I suspect they will do the same with Ihor Kolomoyskyi - they have specifically targeted some of his interests.
It's icing on the cake the Europe itself is rejecting Russian oil, this may have been a goal of the United States - to weaken Europe. It's going to weaken the United States - the US is exporting oil from their strategic reserve to Europe now. It's fucking crazy. This has placed Venezuela and Iran in an improved position, as well as Russia itself. I can't decide if the American leadership is this fucking stupid, if there's some sort of master grand strategy that isn't apparent, of if American leadership is intentionally destroying the west. NONE of what the US is doing is good for anybody in the West, except for perhaps a few very powerful oligarchs. India and China now are buying energy at a lower cost than the Western world does.
The US kept poking the bear, Russia is economically independent, they don't need ANYTHING from Europe or the United States. SHOULD I believe the rhetoric of China, China has allied itself with Russia - it's not as if the US will weaken them so China can say whatever it wants and do whatever it wants. India and Pakistan have allied themselves with Russia at least in this effort because they don't want famine.
WE may be in famine. WE might be eating bugs this time next year.
Time will tell.
All Ukraine had to do was agree to some pretty reasonable demands, and then even if Russia was lying about why they attacked Ukraine, they wouldn't have any excuse at least. They could have had all their propaganda defanged.
All the US media does is lie, lie, and lie. They lie constantly. I'm so fucking sick of it but worse than that, I'm sick of stupid people believing it. Those fuckers trap us all.
richwicks says
No, they don't need to do "just" that. I get so sick of your strawmen.
"I think the only reasonable way to end this is for Ukraine to remain neutral and for Western Ukraine to stop attacking Eastern Ukraine." - this is your exact quote.
Yes, but you claimed I said:
richwicks says
mostly reader says
richwicks says
My "worldview", as you call it, is that the US Federal government is run by a bunch of stupid assholes that continually lie to the US public, about literally everything.
Nice diversion, but no. That "Western Ukraine just needs to stop attacking Eastern Ukraine" horseshit,
No, they don't need to do "just" that. I get so sick of your strawmen.
Russia has said NATO entering Ukraine is an existential threat, and has been saying this for over 8 years. They don't care about people in the Donbass, but it's good propaganda for them to justify the war because Russians can be made to care about the people in the Donbass.
All you do is argue and lie. It's tiresome.
What do you think the goals are of Russia attacking Ukraine? What is their military objective? I think it's primarily to keep NATO out. Current US propaganda claims that Russia is trying to rebuild the USSR, a nation that already has 11 timezones to deal with. They could have easily taken over Georgia, and didn't.
I think there's going to be mission creep now. I expect they want to kick the Americans out, permanently. Russia has already put a bunch of Zionists firmly under their thumb for the last 20 years, I suspect they will do the same with Ihor Kolomoyskyi - they have specifically targeted some of his interests.
It's icing on the cake the Europe itself is rejecting Russian oil, this may have been a goal of the United States - to weaken Europe. It's going to weaken the United States - the US is exporting oil from their strategic reserve to Europe now. It's fucking crazy. This has placed Venezuela and Iran in an improved position, as well as Russia itself. I can't decide if the American leadership is this fucking stupid, if there's some sort of master grand strategy that isn't apparent, of if American leadership is intentionally destroying the west. NONE of what the US is doing is good for anybody in the West, except for perhaps a few very powerful oligarchs. India and China now are buying energy at a lower cost than the Western world does.
The US kept poking the bear, Russia is economically independent, they don't need ANYTHING from Europe or the United States. SHOULD I believe the rhetoric of China, China has allied itself with Russia - it's not as if the US will weaken them so China can say whatever it wants and do whatever it wants. India and Pakistan have allied themselves with Russia at least in this effort because they don't want famine.
WE may be in famine. WE might be eating bugs this time next year.
Time will tell.
All Ukraine had to do was agree to some pretty reasonable demands, and then even if Russia was lying about why they attacked Ukraine, they wouldn't have any excuse at least. They could have had all their propaganda defanged.
All the US media does is lie, lie, and lie. They lie constantly. I'm so fucking sick of it but worse than that, I'm sick of stupid people believing it. Those fuckers trap us all.
1221
mostly reader
2022 Jun 29, 7:16am
richwicks says
Your tantrums are so cute. OF COURSE I emphasized your implication that Ukraine is the aggressor. Which is complete and utter horseshit.
You try to sneak in this crap between the lines, hope that nobody mentions the stench, and throw a hissy fit when someone does.
richwicks says
You just don't get tired of parroting the same been debunked BS, do you? "Complete" idiot for some, "useful" for others.
richwicks says
There's something humorous about propaganda troll throwing a hissy fit over propaganda.
Yes, but you claimed I said:
Your tantrums are so cute. OF COURSE I emphasized your implication that Ukraine is the aggressor. Which is complete and utter horseshit.
You try to sneak in this crap between the lines, hope that nobody mentions the stench, and throw a hissy fit when someone does.
richwicks says
What do you think the goals are of Russia attacking Ukraine? What is their military objective? I think it's primarily to keep NATO out.
You just don't get tired of parroting the same been debunked BS, do you? "Complete" idiot for some, "useful" for others.
richwicks says
All the US media does is lie, lie, and lie. They lie constantly. I'm so fucking sick of it but worse than that, I'm sick of stupid people believing it. Those fuckers trap us all.
There's something humorous about propaganda troll throwing a hissy fit over propaganda.
1222
richwicks
2022 Jun 29, 7:34am
richwicks
2022 Jun 29, 7:34am
mostly reader says
I've never said Ukraine is the aggressor. Such terms are pointless.
I'm pointing out that if Ukraine wanted to end the war, MONTHS ago, they would have simply agreed to Russia's terms. Now Russia might be like the United States in this regard, in which case Russia would simply state that no matter what Ukraine did, Ukraine hasn't met terms. This is what the US did in Syria, and Libya.
mostly reader says
This is not productive thinking or analysis. You don't seem to have the ability to do it, so you substitute with insults.
mostly reader says
Entirely predictably, you didn't answer the question. What is the goal of Russia's military conflict with Ukraine?
I believe, it WAS exclusively to keep NATO out of the country. What it is today, I don't know. I suspect it's to give Europe and the United States one hell of a bloody nose now as well and to give Israel a bit of an ass kicking - they are backing Ihor Kolomoysky.
Time is on Russia's side, and I expect they will use it. Some people are predicting the end of the war before winter, I expect it's got 12 more months to go at least.
mostly reader says
Name anything the US media was correct about in the war in Libya, Syria, Iraq, or Afghanistan?
* Libya was supposedly to prevent a humanitarian crisis - it's in civil war and has slavery markets now.
* Syria was supposedly to prevent Assad from using chemical weapons - the last OPCW investigation had whistleblowers (two of them) come forward to point out that the Douma chemical attack never happened.
* Iraq - find that weapons of mass destruction program yet?
* Afghanistan - why, that was all but won back in 2008 or so, and every year since then, to the point that the US media didn't even cover it until Trump tried to end it.
Of course the media lies about EVERY war. It always has and it always will.
I was right about all those wars. Iraq was the CLOSEST thing the US had to winning, but the area is still a mess. It did allow the US to move bases from Saudi Arabia into Iraq instead.
Ukraine is a US / Russian proxy war - for that alone I suspect it will continue for a long long time and I don't think Russia is any hurry to finish it.
richwicks says
Yes, but you claimed I said:
Your tantrums are so cute. OF COURSE I emphasized your implication that Ukraine is the aggressor.
I've never said Ukraine is the aggressor. Such terms are pointless.
I'm pointing out that if Ukraine wanted to end the war, MONTHS ago, they would have simply agreed to Russia's terms. Now Russia might be like the United States in this regard, in which case Russia would simply state that no matter what Ukraine did, Ukraine hasn't met terms. This is what the US did in Syria, and Libya.
mostly reader says
You try to sneak in this crap between the lines, hope that nobody mentions the stench, and throw a hissy fit when someone does.
This is not productive thinking or analysis. You don't seem to have the ability to do it, so you substitute with insults.
mostly reader says
richwicks says
What do you think the goals are of Russia attacking Ukraine? What is their military objective? I think it's primarily to keep NATO out.
You just don't get tired of parroting the same been debunked BS, do you? "Complete" idiot for some, "useful" for others.
Entirely predictably, you didn't answer the question. What is the goal of Russia's military conflict with Ukraine?
I believe, it WAS exclusively to keep NATO out of the country. What it is today, I don't know. I suspect it's to give Europe and the United States one hell of a bloody nose now as well and to give Israel a bit of an ass kicking - they are backing Ihor Kolomoysky.
Time is on Russia's side, and I expect they will use it. Some people are predicting the end of the war before winter, I expect it's got 12 more months to go at least.
mostly reader says
There's something humorous about propaganda troll throwing a hissy fit over propaganda.
Name anything the US media was correct about in the war in Libya, Syria, Iraq, or Afghanistan?
* Libya was supposedly to prevent a humanitarian crisis - it's in civil war and has slavery markets now.
* Syria was supposedly to prevent Assad from using chemical weapons - the last OPCW investigation had whistleblowers (two of them) come forward to point out that the Douma chemical attack never happened.
* Iraq - find that weapons of mass destruction program yet?
* Afghanistan - why, that was all but won back in 2008 or so, and every year since then, to the point that the US media didn't even cover it until Trump tried to end it.
Of course the media lies about EVERY war. It always has and it always will.
I was right about all those wars. Iraq was the CLOSEST thing the US had to winning, but the area is still a mess. It did allow the US to move bases from Saudi Arabia into Iraq instead.
Ukraine is a US / Russian proxy war - for that alone I suspect it will continue for a long long time and I don't think Russia is any hurry to finish it.
1223
mostly reader
2022 Jun 29, 7:45am
richwicks says
You said that Western Ukraine needs to stop attacking Eastern Ukraine. That obviously misclassifies one side as an aggressor. The term may be pointless in terms of decision making, but it's perfect to help categorize your implications, whether you express them directly or subliminally. You do exactly what propagandists on Russian TV do.
richwicks says
It's been asked and answered (no, it wasn't about NATO). You don't read (as you yourself confessed)
Your lala-land is like the other end of a black hole. No new information can come in from this side, just a bunch of crap flying out.
I've never said Ukraine is the aggressor. Such terms are pointless.
You said that Western Ukraine needs to stop attacking Eastern Ukraine. That obviously misclassifies one side as an aggressor. The term may be pointless in terms of decision making, but it's perfect to help categorize your implications, whether you express them directly or subliminally. You do exactly what propagandists on Russian TV do.
richwicks says
What is the goal of Russia's military conflict with Ukraine?
It's been asked and answered (no, it wasn't about NATO). You don't read (as you yourself confessed)
Your lala-land is like the other end of a black hole. No new information can come in from this side, just a bunch of crap flying out.
1224
richwicks
2022 Jun 29, 8:03am
richwicks
2022 Jun 29, 8:03am
mostly reader says
You're a habitual liar. If you can answer it, answer it. Constantly you make false claims, just answer the question.
I know the answer - Russia is in a proxy war that was begun by the United States overthrowing a leader of Ukraine that was previously friendly with Russia. Although there is no chance of Ukraine joining NATO, they will host NATO weaponry. Ukraine (well their puppet government anyhow) purposely goaded Russia into an attack by openly calling for NATO membership which would have been denied by Germany and Italy anyhow. The puppet leaders of Ukraine have no skin in the game anyhow - this was green lighted by the United States.
For the United States, the goal is to weaken Russia since the United States has been in conflict with Russia for 20 years now and of course to launder money and give more money to the Offense Contractors. Part of the reason the US is in Syria is to provide energy to Europe (not successful yet) via Genie Energy from the Golan Heights, it has nothing to do with ISIS or terrorism there but that's a convenient excuse for US propaganda media. It's also to cut off Russia energy exports which they have been trying to do for over a decade, and have just recently become somewhat successful at - again this it to weaken Russia. Russia will simply go to more reliable trading partners in China and India.
For Russia the ultimate goal is to to end this shit. They're tired of it. NATO weaponry in Ukraine was the last straw. They regard the US as an ailing empire, over-extended, corrupt, and criminal. They just will feed more rope to the United States. We're practically on the verge of civil unrest, and with enough inflation and perhaps starvation, we'll be there. We currently have the most unpopular president in history, who probably wasn't elected and was installed by our intelligence agencies.
Russia's goal, at this point, is to end US puppet rule over not just Ukraine, but Europe. They're going to hurt Europe badly, and the United States is not going to be able to supply the energy Europe needs by this winter. "Freedom Gas" isn't coming. There's not the port facilities for it or the infrastructure, so time is running out for Germany. They can restart their coal fired plants, but they really need to restart their NUCLEAR plants.
Now if the assholes that run the United States don't have a dual goal of destroying this country, they are the biggest fuckups we've ever had in power. Think inflation is bad now? See any shortages in stores yet? And that's not even Russia's fault.
It's very interesting times.
richwicks says
What is the goal of Russia's military conflict with Ukraine?
It's been asked and answered. You don't read (as you yourself confessed)
You're a habitual liar. If you can answer it, answer it. Constantly you make false claims, just answer the question.
I know the answer - Russia is in a proxy war that was begun by the United States overthrowing a leader of Ukraine that was previously friendly with Russia. Although there is no chance of Ukraine joining NATO, they will host NATO weaponry. Ukraine (well their puppet government anyhow) purposely goaded Russia into an attack by openly calling for NATO membership which would have been denied by Germany and Italy anyhow. The puppet leaders of Ukraine have no skin in the game anyhow - this was green lighted by the United States.
For the United States, the goal is to weaken Russia since the United States has been in conflict with Russia for 20 years now and of course to launder money and give more money to the Offense Contractors. Part of the reason the US is in Syria is to provide energy to Europe (not successful yet) via Genie Energy from the Golan Heights, it has nothing to do with ISIS or terrorism there but that's a convenient excuse for US propaganda media. It's also to cut off Russia energy exports which they have been trying to do for over a decade, and have just recently become somewhat successful at - again this it to weaken Russia. Russia will simply go to more reliable trading partners in China and India.
For Russia the ultimate goal is to to end this shit. They're tired of it. NATO weaponry in Ukraine was the last straw. They regard the US as an ailing empire, over-extended, corrupt, and criminal. They just will feed more rope to the United States. We're practically on the verge of civil unrest, and with enough inflation and perhaps starvation, we'll be there. We currently have the most unpopular president in history, who probably wasn't elected and was installed by our intelligence agencies.
Russia's goal, at this point, is to end US puppet rule over not just Ukraine, but Europe. They're going to hurt Europe badly, and the United States is not going to be able to supply the energy Europe needs by this winter. "Freedom Gas" isn't coming. There's not the port facilities for it or the infrastructure, so time is running out for Germany. They can restart their coal fired plants, but they really need to restart their NUCLEAR plants.
Now if the assholes that run the United States don't have a dual goal of destroying this country, they are the biggest fuckups we've ever had in power. Think inflation is bad now? See any shortages in stores yet? And that's not even Russia's fault.
It's very interesting times.
1225
mostly reader
2022 Jun 29, 8:18am
richwicks says
I can, and I did, as did several others. You, on the other hand, don't know it because as you yourself confessed you respond to me without reading
Dude, you are like a blond driving by a lighting pole. Can't look at it, but you can't look away either. You can't look at some posts because they destroy you, but you can't not look, well, because you know that they destroy you.
So you resort to hissy fits. I kinda feel bad for people who get to interact with you on daily basis.
You're a habitual liar. If you can answer it, answer it.
I can, and I did, as did several others. You, on the other hand, don't know it because as you yourself confessed you respond to me without reading
Dude, you are like a blond driving by a lighting pole. Can't look at it, but you can't look away either. You can't look at some posts because they destroy you, but you can't not look, well, because you know that they destroy you.
So you resort to hissy fits. I kinda feel bad for people who get to interact with you on daily basis.
1226
richwicks
2022 Jun 29, 8:21am
richwicks
2022 Jun 29, 8:21am
mostly reader says
See what information you have in there? NONE. You just insult people, and it's stupid. What's to read? I might as well have read the tag on a mattress, it's just as informative and thoughtful.
mostly reader says
You said absolutely nothing to me in that entire post.
It's just a bunch of stupid insults, AGAIN. That's all you do.
When you said I'm having a "hissy fit" - I can only interpret that as projection. I can't be insulted by you. I don't think you're respectable or thoughtful, or even smart, or even knowledgeable. I don't care about your opinion of me. You don't have the intellect to form an opinion on me.
What would be interesting, and UNPRECEDENTED from you, would be you explaining what you think, and why. I do it all the time, but that's because I have actual thoughts, and I actually think. That's why I can explain my reasoning, why I can source data for how I formed an opinion, why I frequently post links (often repeatedly) - and why you don't.
Dude, you are like a blond driving by a lighting pole. Can't look at it, but you can't look away either. You can't look at some posts because they destroy you, but you can't not look, well, because you know that they destroy you.
See what information you have in there? NONE. You just insult people, and it's stupid. What's to read? I might as well have read the tag on a mattress, it's just as informative and thoughtful.
mostly reader says
So you resort to hissy fits. I kinda feel bad for people who get to interact with you on daily basis.
You said absolutely nothing to me in that entire post.
It's just a bunch of stupid insults, AGAIN. That's all you do.
When you said I'm having a "hissy fit" - I can only interpret that as projection. I can't be insulted by you. I don't think you're respectable or thoughtful, or even smart, or even knowledgeable. I don't care about your opinion of me. You don't have the intellect to form an opinion on me.
What would be interesting, and UNPRECEDENTED from you, would be you explaining what you think, and why. I do it all the time, but that's because I have actual thoughts, and I actually think. That's why I can explain my reasoning, why I can source data for how I formed an opinion, why I frequently post links (often repeatedly) - and why you don't.
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