patrick.net

Anyone who owns a Pitt is suspect automatically. Suspect of being a thug or wanna be thug. Suspect of being a druggie and a dumbass. Or just embracing that culture.
My brother accepted a Pitbull from a “friend” and man was that dog iffy. It seemed manic at times and other times seemed like it was “trying” to be good and not bite people or kids. He treated it well and everything and eventually gave it to my mom. She kept the dog until it died of natural causes, which honestly wasn’t that long. I never could trust that dog and I consider myself a dog person. I’m good at reading their body language and making friends with other peoples’ dogs. I can also train them pretty easily. It’s just persistence and incremental steps. You have to start rewarding them for behavior you want even if they aren’t choosing to do that behavior. Eventually they figure out why you’re giving them small treats and they make the connection and then it gets easy. Most dogs want to please their owners, so it’s just about getting them to understand what you want.

My neighbors moved here from Las Vegas in 2016--she's 60 and a retired teacher and he's 59, worked security for Harrah's and is on the security force at Baylor, their second marriage. They adopted a rescued Pit Bull bitch which was pregnant and abandoned at the time. We've gotten to be good friends and I'm over at their house quite often. Cocoa is a big dog but sweet as she can be and loves to come up and nuzzle you. They keep her in the other part of the house when they have company, but I always wonder about the potential danger lurking in her. They board her when they take a trip and she has already been banned from one kennel because she attacked another dog. Lisa's husband works the night shift down at the campus so she likes the dog's company, but I always wonder if in a moment's notice Cocoa could snap--she's a large dog and could easily overpower Lisa. If they wanted to adopt, I don't know why they didn't just get a normal breed like a Cocker Spaniel or Collie.

GNL says

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

more reasons to carry a gun, some pitbulls have 4 legs, some have 2, gun solves all if them.

You don't get it. Dogs are bred for purposes. There is a breed that was purposely bred for aggression and killing skills (I can't remember the breed but Pitbulls are very similar since they are the most used breeds for fighting). They had all dogs fight, loser is dispatched. Only winners that KILLED the other dog was allowed to breed. Don't be naive.

im well aware. its why i carry a gun. no safety on, ready to fire.

I have two Pit Bull stories, one from about 6yrs ago and one from two years ago.

#1 - a neighbor was walking his small dog, on a leash, down our street while listening to headphones. A Pit Bull owned by someone in an adjacent neighborhood got free from their backyard and came up behind them. By the time my neighbor looked down, the Pitt Bull already had a clench on the small dog. The neighbor tried his best to fight off the Pitt Bull during the dramatic scene but it was too late. His dog was dead soon after the scene started.

For reasons I can’t understand to this day, the neighbor never pressed charges.

#2 - a few neighborhoods over, a homeowner had their front door open and screen door secured during a warm summer day. His small dog would frequently stand in front of the screen door and watch/bark as pedestrians walked by and cars drove by. He hears commission downstairs and rushes down to see what’s happening. There’s blood in his living room and a Pitt Bull attacking his dog in his own living room. He sees that the screen door has been charged through with broken netting and structural damage. His dog didn’t survive.

Both incidents happened here in the Bay Area. Horrific, both haunt me given they happened so close to home.

I can’t look at Pitt Bulls or their owners the same.

BayArea says

Both incidents happened here in the Bay Area. Horrific, both haunt me given they happened right here.

If a dog killed one of my dogs, I would certainly make certain that dog died, probably by my own hands, but certainly would have died. Maybe the owner too.

The second a dog kills another dog, or even a cat - fuck 'em.

I've had dogs that were aggressive toward cats, sometimes small dogs. When I had dogs in foster like that, they weren't allowed off leash, and if they managed to get off leash, I would hunt them down. One dog broke free, and the damned thing regretted it when I got him. He broke a damned clasp on the leash. Last time I bought a cheap leash.

Precisely because I don't live in a Disney cartoon, I understand what pitbulls are for. They are territorial defense WEAPONS. Can you raise them to be "loving and sweet?" Sure, I've met pitbull hospital dogs that were very nice but that ultimately isn't their purpose. They don't exist to cuddle with your kids in bed or play fetch, they exist to aid in the protection of your home and property.

The people that want to ban pitbulls are the same people that want to ban guns. They want you defenseless. It's the same schticks too: "look at these defenseless kids getting mauled so ban pitbulls" is the same as "these kids were shot and killed so ban guns." Stop perceiving pitbulls as being the same as other breeds. Your companionship is not what they were bred for. It reminds me of the people that act utterly surprised when men wearing wigs in ladies' bathrooms turn out to be sexual predators.

You must all feel very safe to believe that it's a good idea to give up any modicum of your ability to defend yourself with a psychopathic government breathing down your neck. I guess all those people rotting in jail for entering a public building isn't enough to wise people up yet.

That’s completely wrong.

I’m pro-gun and against Pitt Bulls. I don’t want Pitt Bull owners to be defenseless.

I just don’t want them owning live defense with a brain of it’s own that’s been bred to kill.

My gun isn’t going to jump out of my holster, chase a child down, and kill them.

BayArea says

That’s completely wrong.

I’m pro-gun and against Pitt Bulls. I don’t want Pitt Bull owners to be defenseless.

I just don’t want them owning live defense with a brain of it’s own that’s been bred to kill and has awful statistics in our society.

Please, be my guest. Continue to give up rights to a government that hates you. Keep living in fear of potential hypothetical outcomes instead of the very real fact that you're ruled by psychopaths. History? Basically 100% of the time since the start of government, they've turned against their own citizens violently. They always start with taking animals and weapons away, too. Just look at when the CCP rose, they made sure to kill farmers' dogs under the similar guise of "pandemic fighting."

You want to ban a breed of dog because an idiot owner didn't know what he was doing? You're literally consumed with the same madness gun control nuts are.

Life comes with risk, doesn't it? What is the most ageless risk than possibly being mauled by an animal? How about people? There are people with such underdeveloped frontal cortexes that they might as well be animals, with no ability to think abstractly. Some of them even snap and cause violence. They surround you daily too, it's not a rare thing. I guess we should just ban all people too, right?

We should have all learned this in the past few years: your personal fears and traumas should not dictate society's freedom.

BayArea says

My gun isn’t going to jump out of my holster, chase a modem down, and kill them.

Do you take your fully loaded rocket launcher on leisurely strolls? No. One would assume you're aware you're carrying an explosive ordinance on your back and you should be behaving accordingly.

mell says

pitbulls were bred and trained to be aggressive and kill.

So I barely know anyone who owns this general breed, and the one person I do, just happens to have a dog that disproves every one of your assertions? Is that really the most likely explanation?

The most aggressive dog I've ever owned is a chihuahua mix. My Husky/Golden Retriever we had when I was a kid, such a sweetheart.

DhammaStep says

BayArea says

That’s completely wrong.

I’m pro-gun and against Pitt Bulls. I don’t want Pitt Bull owners to be defenseless.

I just don’t want them owning live defense with a brain of it’s own that’s been bred to kill and has awful statistics in our society.

Please, be my guest. Continue to give up rights to a government that hates you. Keep living in fear of potential hypothetical outcomes instead of the very real fact that you're ruled by psychopaths. History? Basically 100% of the time since the start of government, they've turned against their own citizens violently. They always start with taking animals and weapons away, too. Just look at when the CCP rose, they made sure to kill farmers' dogs under the similar guise of "pandemic fighting."

You want to ban a breed of dog because an idiot owner didn't know what he was doing? You're literally consumed wi...

The owner needs to be able to have their pitbull leashed and on control at all times, off leash only at their own property if it can't escape and designated dog parks. They also need to keep the distance from passer bys in public. A lunging dog getting into the virtual cage a human can describe with their arms is not different than an attack by a human and can be met with deadly force. With increased lethality comes increased responsibility. If you have ever experienced the force a lunging pit bull or similar dog exerts on the leash and their owner you would only give the leash in public to physically strong and fit males, or very strong and fit females as an exception. In your own property you can do whatever you want, but don't subject others to that force of nature unless they ask for it

rocketjoe79 says

BayArea says

When and where were these dogs breed to kill?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_fighting#Breed_origins

Nope. This describes breeding strong animals, nothing in the article says that means they must kill and be aggressive. I own two guns, which I keep loaded at all times, not in a safe. I guess I'm dangerous then, and am about to shoot the next person who walks in my house right? By your logic, body builders are all mass killers, waiting to snap.

Once I visited one of the oldest schools in Columbia CA with wife and young kids. Could not find any visitors around on the way up hill to the school on that day. Just before entering the door, there was a bulldog appeared from nowhere. We turned around and froze almost for a minute while it was barking and ready to attack us. I did not want to have full eye contact and slightly looking around and found a man 100ft away east side of the school behind the car partially watching us. I gradually pulled high zoom SLR to take a video. He called and let him in and drove away immediately. That was a terrible experience. I never like anyone who owns a dog and keep off leash particularly bull dogs.
By the way, there are so many great places around Sonora ca so beautiful, you would definitely love visiting.

NuttBoxer says

rocketjoe79 says

BayArea says

When and where were these dogs breed to kill?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_fighting#Breed_origins

Nope. This describes breeding strong animals, nothing in the article says that means they must kill and be aggressive. I own two guns, which I keep loaded at all times, not in a safe. I guess I'm dangerous then, and am about to shoot the next person who walks in my house right? By your logic, body builders are all mass killers, waiting to snap.

That's different as most animals, esp. dogs, are instinctive creatures, whereas humans are mainly driven by their brains. Sure there are bad hombres too amd that's why violent offenders (onto non violent victims) should he locked up to protect society

RWSGFY says

And why most of home insurance companies deny coverage if pitbull is living in the house? They must be delusional and don't want people's dollars...

Not a common concern in Arizona or Texas. But yes in California. In fact, it's rare to see an Arizona rental that doesn't allow dogs. But I guess they're just backwards hicks, and California is full of enlightened, normal people...

NuttBoxer says

RWSGFY says

And why most of home insurance companies deny coverage if pitbull is living in the house? They must be delusional and don't want people's dollars...

Not a common concern in Arizona or Texas. But yes in California. In fact, it's rare to see an Arizona rental that doesn't allow dogs. But I guess they're just backwards hicks, and California is full of enlightened, normal people...

If you want to own dogs you can always purchase your own property, ideally with a large lot of land cause they love to roam free. Fence it in securely and you can raise a whole dog academy. Or find a landlord who allows dogs. A lot of that is driven by supply and demand, I'd expect areas without supply to be more lenient in general towards any kind of pets.

mell says

With increased lethality comes increased responsibility. If you have ever experienced the force a lunging pit bull or similar dog exerts on the leash and their owner you would only give the leash in public to physically strong and fit males,

Absolutely. I did some dog walking for a pair of pitbulls right out of high school. Even with a few years of weight training by then, it was an entirely different beast than just simply "holding a leash." There's so many neglected connective muscles that get used throughout your body just trying to hold a dog like that back. It becomes imperative to not only be physically strong but mentally aware of things that might cause aggression from the animal. Anticipating based on your surroundings prevents a lot of need to physically strain.

Which is my point. Guns are not toys and pitbulls are not pets. I see teenaged girls walking their tiny dogs while surfing social media in the other hand. That's simply something you cannot do with a large and strong potentially aggressive dog. The world is a varied and dangerous place, we should be act accordingly instead of trying to ban reality.

BayArea says

My gun isn’t going to jump out of my holster, chase a child down, and kill them.

Neither is your dog unless you train them to. That could be intentional, or because you don't know how to train them at all, and allow them to run your house. Hmm, just like someone who buys a gun, never learns gun safety, never teaches their kids about guns, then an accident leaves someone dead or injured.

mell says

That's different as mist animals, esp. dogs, are instinctive creatures, whereas humans are mainly driven by their brains. Sure there are bad hombres too amd that's why violent offenders (onto non violent victims) should he locked up to protect society

Absolutely. My Husky used to kill squirrels and lay them on our doorstep. Dogs have instincts to hunt, but for food. They bark to protect territory, and they absolutely will kill to protect themselves or their pack. But killing just to kill accomplishes none of their natural goals. It's only in human created situations, where people are irresponsible that these types of events take place.

DhammaStep says

There's so many neglected connective muscles that get used throughout your body just trying to hold a dog like that back.

If you're pulling back on your dog, you don't know how to control them, and shouldn't be walking them around anyone else until you do.

NuttBoxer says

DhammaStep says

There's so many neglected connective muscles that get used throughout your body just trying to hold a dog like that back.

If you're pulling back on your dog, you don't know how to control them, and shouldn't be walking them around anyone else until you do.

I successfully walked those two pitbulls in New York City for four years without a single incident. I don't really care what you call "ensuring everyone stays with me around traffic, people, small animals, birds, other dogs etc." I call it "holding them back."

Is it ok to have people own lions and alligators in urban high density areas? … because freedom

I live in a rural area, and walk my dogs past a lot of large property's. Almost everyone out here has some form of big dog. There's one pit bull we see often enough, that when he gets aggressive, I correct him verbally. I'm fine with dogs barking if they don't know us, but after a while, enough is enough. I look the dog in the eye, and just make a quick sound or tell him to stop, and he does.

There is one family that has a few dogs, two of them large. One is a German Shepard, the other some kind of big brown dog. They have had them out without leash a few times while I was walking my dogs(old chihuahua's). The brown dog came right up to us, super friendly, I instantly knew I had nothing to worry about. Owner quickly called him back. That dog I don't think I've ever heard bark. The German Shepard though always goes crazy every time we go by. I just stare him down to let him know I'm not intimidated. One day he was out as the lady was bringing in groceries. He starts his barking and runs towards us. I pulled my dogs behind me, kind of flexed/made myself seem big, and he stopped short and backed off. Lady called him back, and he went to her right away.

Another time neighbor's pit bull(not the one I mentioned), was out, and kept wanting to get close to my male dog. I hadn't seen this dog before, so wasn't sure, but I just pushed him back, and kept putting myself in between. Eventually owner called him back. Dog seemed mostly curious, but didn't want to let him close and take chances. My dog even snapped at him at one point when he was getting close. He's old, but he will defend himself.

Point being, people who know how to master their dogs don't have problems with their dogs mauling people. And people who know dogs don't have problems protecting themselves. You all with the issues don't know dogs, and definitely should never have one until you learn more.

You pull up on a leash, never back. Create tension in the opposite direction you want your dog to go. Leash should be around the neck. And dog should walk beside, or slightly behind you, never in front. And you definitely need to walk or exercise your dog. Don't let them build up nervous energy. It's not that hard, but it does take lots of time and repetition. Don't own a dog if you aren't willing to put the work in.

BayArea says

Is it ok to have people own lions and alligators in urban high density areas? … because you know, freedom n shit

Why are you letting your lion around 10 year olds? Why did you think it was a good idea to take your alligator to the community pool?

I'm thinking you've never had one. I have and fully understand the responsibility one is taking when they get one. Most people that have problems with them should have never gotten one.
If you want a good guard dog they are the way to go. They instinctively know danger from casual behavior and rise to the occasion.
On the other hand keep them away from anything on four legs. I was surprised that mine left a wounded cowling crow completely alone and acted like he couldn't even see it. Then I realized, it was walking on two legs.

NuttBoxer says

rocketjoe79 says

BayArea says

When and where were these dogs breed to kill?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_fighting#Breed_origins

Nope. This describes breeding strong animals, nothing in the article says that means they must kill and be aggressive. I own two guns, which I keep loaded at all times, not in a safe. I guess I'm dangerous then, and am about to shoot the next person who walks in my house right? By your logic, body builders are all mass killers, waiting to snap.

Now your just makin up BS. A dog has a mind of it's own. Not only that but, do you reject the fact that breeds are created for certain purposes? How many stories have been told that "the dog was always loving and friendly. I have no idea why it snapped". There was a story of a family that had 2 Pits for over 5 years. One day they both attacked her young children. She did everything she could but to no avail, the dogs killed both of her children right in front of her. What should happen to that woman?

mell says

That's different as most animals, esp. dogs, are instinctive creatures, whereas humans are mainly driven by their brains.

You still believe that human beings are chiefly driven by their intellect after the last 2 years? I respectfully disagree.

BayArea says

Is it ok to have people own lions and alligators in urban high density areas? … because freedom

Yes, it absolutely is.

They just need to be responsible, legally - meaning legally liable, for anything that those animals do.

I remember when some Presa Canario's killed Mr. Whipple's daughter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Diane_Whipple

Good doggie, good,…., aaaaarghhhh!!!!!

I don't think the babe below would be able to control this dog if it went off.

GNL says

NuttBoxer says

rocketjoe79 says

BayArea says

When and where were these dogs breed to kill?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_fighting#Breed_origins

Nope. This describes breeding strong animals, nothing in the article says that means they must kill and be aggressive. I own two guns, which I keep loaded at all times, not in a safe. I guess I'm dangerous then, and am about to shoot the next person who walks in my house right? By your logic, body builders are all mass killers, waiting to snap.

Now your just makin up BS. A dog has a mind of it's own. Not only that but,...

"Well, he's never hurt anyone before".

NuttBoxer says

You pull up on a leash, never back. Create tension in the opposite direction you want your dog to go.

With all my dogs, I'd train them to heel. It's a shitty process, but it's doable. It's quite simple, if my dog got ahead of me, I'd stop and bring the dog back to my side before we'd continue while saying "heel". It could take me literally an hour to walk a mile. Dogs are goddamn patient, all you need to do is be more patient.

A dog should never pull on leash, and if they do, don't just deal with it, give the animal a sharp yank. Does the bastard just want to do whatever he fucking wants to do? Two can play at that game. When I was training a dog that did that, first it's a light yank to let them know I'm annoyed. If they do it again, it gets harder, and harder and harder, until there's a yelp.

Correction needs to ALWAYS be done. Reward is random, punishment isn't. You always punish. You don't have to hurt the animal, but you correct them.

A dog yanking on the leash is showing you disrespect AND the dog is chocking himself. Don't let your dog be an asshole to you. They aren't kids, but they are KIND of like kids, they don't think about you so much.

There are several dog breeds that cause most human Deaths and Serious Injuries. Pit Bulls are ALWAYS on top of the list. The breed is unnecessary and dangerous. They need to go.

rocketjoe79 says

The breed is unnecessary and dangerous. They need to go.

The breed of human that believes in giving up rights for just a feeling of safety need to go.

You don't want a virus or to get mauled by a bear or get robbed or any number of bad things? Stay inside. I've had quite enough of other people's phobias being imposed on me these past few years.

DhammaStep says

rocketjoe79 says

The breed is unnecessary and dangerous. They need to go.

The breed of human that believes in giving up rights for just a feeling of safety need to go.

You don't want a virus or to get mauled by a bear or get robbed or any number of bad things? Stay inside. I've had quite enough of other people's phobias being imposed on me these past few years.

If someone gets their face ripped off, what should happen to you? What has happened to any of these owners whose dogs have done such things?

My daughter and son in law have a 1 year old Cane Corso. The dog knows me. Last time I was there, I picked up my granddaughter and was playing around with her. She was laughing and having a good time. The dog was jumping at me and and biting my arm. He was doing what he was bred to do. Eventually I had to give the dog a hard knee to the chest. That did not deter him. I told my son in law to handle his dog. We will not go over there again unless the dog is crated. NO, they do not mistreat their dogs.

No, I did not make this story up.

DhammaStep says

rocketjoe79 says

The breed is unnecessary and dangerous. They need to go.

The breed of human that believes in giving up rights for just a feeling of safety need to go.

You don't want a virus or to get mauled by a bear or get robbed or any number of bad things? Stay inside. I've had quite enough of other people's phobias being imposed on me these past few years.

I was knocked down and severely bitten by a German Shepard leaped an 8' chain link fence and chased me to the street when I was a paperboy. Owner is still responsible. They weren't home to "control" their dog.

GNL says

DhammaStep says

rocketjoe79 says

The breed is unnecessary and dangerous. They need to go.

The breed of human that believes in giving up rights for just a feeling of safety need to go.

You don't want a virus or to get mauled by a bear or get robbed or any number of bad things? Stay inside. I've had quite enough of other people's phobias being imposed on me these past few years.

If someone gets their face ripped off, what should happen to you? What has happened to any of these owners whose dogs have done such things?

There was a famous case in SFBA about two dogs getting out of an apartment and killing a neighbor. Both owners went to prison for a long time.

PS. The problem with "bully" breeds in the US is that most of these dogs are bred by lowlife ghetto scum and the the most typical path for these dogs into normal folks' homes is through shelters. So basically you don't know how that adorable pitbull puppy was bred, have no idea of the lineage and whether there were some vicious and uncontrollable dogs amongst its ancestors. When dogs are bred by responsible breeders such bad apples are weeded out from the gene pool. When Jamal and Trayvon decide to run a puppy mill go get some dogs for dogfighting - the opposite happens. And no, you can't control any dog, irregardless of its pedigree - it's just hubris and internet bravado talking.

If I was walking down the street and two pitbulls come running down the street at me my reaction would be 100% different if it was two golden retrievers, it would be common sense. I've seen enough issues with pitbulls going agro, my best friend was attached by one he had to smash its head in to get it to let go.

rocketjoe79 says

I was knocked down and severely bitten by a German Shepard leaped an 8' chain link fence and chased me to the street when I was a paperboy. Owner is still responsible. They weren't home to "control" their dog.

Did you press charges?

RC2006 says

If I was walking down the street and two pitbulls come running down the street at me my reaction would be 100% if it was two golden retrievers, it would be common sense. I've seen enough issues with pitbulls going agro, my best friend was attached by one he had to smash its head in to get it to let go.

Golden retrievers don't appear in rap music videos, not being bred in ghettos, never used in illegal dogfighting, etc. So different reaction is completely warranted. The gene pool of pitbulls, Staffordshire terriers, Presa Canario and several other breeds, has been severely tainted by irresponsible uncontrolled breeding aimed at participation in dogfighting - it's a fact.