patrick.net

NuttBoxer says

As I mentioned some time ago when this started, Ukraine will become another Middle East shithole

Does Ukraine have huge oil reserves???

If it does, it would explain a few things.

zzyzzx says

NuttBoxer says

As I mentioned some time ago when this started, Ukraine will become another Middle East shithole

Does Ukraine have huge oil reserves???

If it does, it would explain a few things.

Nat gas that can be extracted by fracking, yuuge reserves which conveniently are located mostly in East part of the country where the war is going on. A reasonable conspiracy theory can be made out of this fact - no NATO memberships or bombing Donbas for 100 years required

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/shafted-tuesday-march-28-2023-c-and?publication_id=463409&post_id=111213703&isFreemail=true

🚀 Even ChatGPT says the United States overthrew Ukraine’s democratically-elected government in 2014:

Patrick says

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/shafted-tuesday-march-28-2023-c-and?publication_id=463409&post_id=111213703&isFreemail=true

🚀 Even ChatGPT says the United States overthrew Ukraine’s democratically-elected government in 2014:

just tried it, 2014 gone

i did this one. bard actually does say it for now… until intel agencies “fix it”.

Here's a blast from the past, from CNN on September 2, 2014.


original link

So it's not true that the US propaganda machine didn't report on the Ukrainian civil war at all, they just barely reported on it. The original report is here:

https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/02/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html

In the archives, the videos are removed.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000/https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/02/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html

zzyzzx says

NuttBoxer says

As I mentioned some time ago when this started, Ukraine will become another Middle East shithole

Does Ukraine have huge oil reserves???

No. Even though the Western part of Ukraine was the place were commercial oil production began in Europe in the 19th century, that oil is long gone.

Bd6r says

zzyzzx says

NuttBoxer says

As I mentioned some time ago when this started, Ukraine will become another Middle East shithole

Does Ukraine have huge oil reserves???

If it does, it would explain a few things.

Nat gas that can be extracted by fracking, yuuge reserves which conveniently are located mostly in East part of the country where the war is going on. A reasonable conspiracy theory can be made out of this fact - no NATO memberships or bombing Donbas for 100 years required

Also one of the largest producers of wheat in the world.

NuttBoxer says

Also one of the largest producers of wheat in the world.

Yes.

Map of gas fields:



Perhaps origins of war are at least partially in hydrocarbons, as often is the case. NATO joining rhetoric by itself is insufficient, as Finland having as long border with Russia will be in NATO soon and is not attacked.

I dunno, those vaxx payments to Pfizer et al give the Ukrainian fraud a run for the money.

The mighty winter offensive was such a success the Nazi fuckers are reduced to begging for immediate ceasefire with no preconditions: https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-736032

Patrick says

Yeah, and it's cretin Pukin who's got scammed out of $350B (and counting).

Oh, lookie here:


Do you know what it is? It's the mighty IS-3. Do you know what IS stands for? "Iosif Stalin".

THE SHIT JUST GOT REAL!!!

Another powerful answer to all these fragile Western tanks entering the field - the robust and deadly T-12 100mm smoothbore anti-tank gun:

https://twitter.com/auto_glam/status/1642269122447695874?ref_src=patrick.net

RWSGFY says

The mighty winter offensive was such a success the Nazi fuckers are reduced to begging for immediate ceasefire with no preconditions: https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-736032

Who are the "Nazi fuckers"? Ukrainians or Russians?

RWSGFY says

Another powerful answer to all these fragile Western tanks entering the field - the robust and deadly T-12 100mm smoothbore anti-tank gun:

https://twitter.com/auto_glam/status/1642269122447695874?ref_src=patrick.net

All this is doing is getting a lot of people needlessly killed. End the fucking war. Russia can't lose, if they wanted, they could end this tomorrow with nuclear weaponry, but it could escalate with a war with Europe, which they could ALSO end. They are either #2 or #1 in nuclear armaments.

End this fucking war. The longer it goes on, the more people die.

Russia does the same thing the US does, they use shit equipment to fight dumbshit wars. They will not risk their best technology. We do the same, we don't send top of the line technology, we downgrade it before we ship it. It's just a meat grinder.

What is the real conflict between Russia, Ukraine, and Europe? Why can't this be solved diplomatically? What's the fucking conflict?

Bd6r says

Perhaps origins of war are at least partially in hydrocarbons, as often is the case. NATO joining rhetoric by itself is insufficient, as Finland having as long border with Russia will be in NATO soon and is not attacked..

LOL! Be careful when wandering off script. Russia/Soviet-Union never had a history invading any country for oil/hydrocarbons (Czechslovakia, Hungary, Afghanistan, all oil importers; all 3 were countries in its neighborhood/sphere-of-influence).The Bankster-controlled US regime (i.e. the Deep State, often contrary to the interest of American public), OTOH, has a long history of invading or causing wars in countries that export oil/hydrocarbon . . . not for what most people assume (grabbing their oil) but for stopping the production/exporting of oil from those countries, so that oil/hydrocarbon prices can be elevated on the world market for a few years. How does that pattern fit with the current war in Ukraine?

As for Finland joining NATO, it's just a way to provoke/entice Russia to invade through Lapland to reach Norway (Finnish Lapland has roads, whereas existing border area between Norway and Russia is mostly rocky shores covered with frozen tundra, impassable), which "owns" a sovereign wealth fund over $1 Trillion! That is a huge liability on the UK/US/Swiss banks' books owed to only about 5 million people (Norwegian population), so a Russian take-over of Norway would be an easier way to settle the accounts with some kind of Norwegian government-in-exile. Finnish public are not happy with their pretty-face bought-and-paid-for (i.e. whorish) prime minister who signed up the deal, just voted her out of office. BTW, now you also understand why Norwegian government promotes EV's for their citizens: as soon as the grid is cut, those EV owners would not be able to drive south to the warmer area in case of emergency in winter, which is very cold and long in the northern/inland ("inland" as in upland and away from fjords) 80+% of Norway . . . and also why the bought-and-paid-for position of NATO Secretary is occupied by a bought-and-paid-for Norwegian despite the tiny size of Norway compared to other NATO countries.

https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/hows-that-war-going/

How’s That War Going?

“The American press, once the guardian of democracy, was hollowed out to the point that it could be worn like a hand puppet by the U.S. security agencies and party operatives….Disinformation is both the name of the crime and the means of covering it up; a weapon that doubles as a disguise.” — Jacob Siegel

How’s the war going? Huh? Do you mean the war over in Ukraine? Or the US government’s war against its own people?

Well, the first one, the Ukraine War, is mostly destroying Europe — though, apparently, they haven’t figured that out yet. Europe’s industrial economy is toast without affordable Russian natgas. We turned off their pipeline for that in September and nobody in Europe objected. They just sucked it up and went back to smoking cigarettes at their café tables. A year or so from now, nobody in Europe will have enough money for a cappuccino (or cigarettes) and maybe then they’ll start asking the mental mollusks who run things there some questions — if they don’t just leapfrog all that politesse and burn the joint down.

The main thing about the Ukraine War is that the US doesn’t want it to end. You understand, it is not about any airy-fairy principles such as freedom for Ukraine. It’s about antagonizing Russia no matter how many dead Ukrainians it takes, because US officials developed a delusional psychosis about Russia after years of using it to mind-fuck American citizens, and we have to justify that antagonism by pretending we have vested interests in Ukraine, which we don’t, by the way.

So far, everything we’ve done to promote the conflict has backfired on Western Civ. Most of the rest of the world recognizes that the US has gone insane and they are taking careful steps to decouple from us — mainly to stop using our money for international trade. Really, would you want to have anything to do with a crazy person? No, you’d put as much distance between you and him as possible and stop even trying to communicate. If the world stops using the dollar in trade, the dollar will lose value, and so will the trillions in US bond paper held by other countries, which said countries will seek to unload as quickly as possible. Can you spell sovereign debt crisis? Look out below….

You get the picture? Now how about that other war: our government’s war against us? What canny reporters (Taibbi, Shellenberger) are calling the Censorship Industrial Complex has been pretty well outed. Everybody knows that the FBI, CIA, DHS, and many other agencies, via hijacked social media, have worked tirelessly to confound and bamboozle the public debate about, really, everything that matters. The odd part is that roughly half of America doesn’t seem to care. Of course, that is the same half of the country that has fallen in love with surveillance, censorship, political prosecutions, election monkey business, mandated mRNA shots, and other excursions into bad faith. Their auditors in the mainstream news media actually seem to relish their roles as enforcers of unreality.

richwicks says

All this is doing is getting a lot of people needlessly killed. End the fucking war. Russia can't lose, if they wanted, they could end this tomorrow with nuclear weaponry, but it could escalate with a war with Europe, which they could ALSO end. They are either #2 or #1 in nuclear armaments.

End this fucking war. The longer it goes on, the more people die.

I have been saying this for months.

The only way the war ends is for Russia to stop invading and occupying their sovereign neighbor. There is no universe where Ukraine stops defending their nation conventionally or bleeding out Russia for decades through insurgency. Yet we have loads of people in the US and on this forum ostensibly cheering Russia on to continue the needless death and destruction thinking that the pathetic Russian military can somehow wring out a quick victory.

You say "Russia can't lose"? Russia already lost the war back in March/April last year when they failed to topple the Government and take Kiev. It has been nothing but a very painful clownshow for Russia ever since.

What good are nukes to Russia in this conflict? Are they going to create a radioactive wasteland right on their Western border and enjoy years of radioactive breezes in Moscow? What about all that prime resource rich land in Eastern Ukraine that Russia currently occupies?

So all together now: "Putin End this Fucking War!"

I've noticed that many on this site are rightfully suspicious of any Western reporting on Ukraine. Fair enough. It is hard to know precise numbers of casualties as both Russia and Ukraine have vested interested in keeping that info secret.

But I don't think many can dispute the current battle maps. Is anyone claiming Russia has more land under their control then what is shown below?


https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1642323710072836097?ref_src=patrick.net

Can anyone watch the battle timeline below and really believe that Russia is "winning" after a year of so much loss of life and material?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pfmQpennxM

At best, Russia is locked in a stalemate and hanging onto Eastern Ukraine is going to be a massive drain on blood and treasure which will be a festering wound for decades. It will make the Israeli/Palestinian conflict look like nothing.

Unless Russia can somehow deliver a knockout punch that topples the government in Kiev causing a total route of military command - how does Russia "win" under the current reality?

socal2 says

I've noticed that many on this site are rightfully suspicious of any Western reporting on Ukraine. Fair enough. It is hard to know precise numbers of casualties as both Russia and Ukraine have vested interested in keeping that info secret.

But I don't think many can dispute the current battle maps. Is anyone claiming Russia has more land under their control then what is shown below?


https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1642323710072836097?ref_src=patrick.net

Can anyone watch the battle timeline below and really believe that Russia is "winning" after a year of so much loss of life and material?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pfmQpennxM

At best, Russia is locked in a...

But Bakhmut has been ceded by the Ukes - Russia is now in control. This effectively disproves the maps, etc., you have provided.

This is a war of attrition, not a computer war game of instant gratification. Russia is ponderous and patient. Ukraine will just run out of stuff, or run out of Western nations wasting their stuff on them, and Russia will be able to walk in where they want. It doesn't matter what they occupy or don't occupy at the moment.

stereotomy says

But Bakhmut has been ceded by the Ukes - Russia is now in control. This effectively disproves the maps, etc., you have provided.

Bakhmut doesn't even represent a centimeter west on the overall map and Ukraine is disputing Wagner's claims of taking the whole city.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-zelenskiy-situation-bakhmut-especially-hot-2023-04-02/

Even is Russia captured all of Bakhmut how does that disprove the map?

Ceffer says

and Russia will be able to walk in where they want.

Yet Russia lost roughly 50% of the initial Ukrainian land they "conquered" last year.

So much for Russia can walk wherever they want.

Ukraine can certainly run out of men and Western weapons.

But it is a joke to believe that Russia is some sort of juggernaut with unlimited supply of men and material. This is not WWII with lots of disposable peasant families with 10+ kids to be thrown in as cannon fodder. At some point, Russia will have to begin drafting upper middle class folks who are not as easily brainwashed or motivated as ethnic peasants and prisoners.

stereotomy says

But Bakhmut has been ceded by the Ukes - Russia is now in control.

Yes!...

This is the Wagner group raising the Russian flag and the banner of Wagner over the now occupied administrative buildings of Bakhmut.



The_Deplorable

G-translated from a Russian economist's blog (https://aillarionov.livejournal.com/1359058.html):

Russia's spending on the war is at least 14 billion dollars. per month

The state portal "Electronic budget" (its operators are the Ministry of Finance and the Treasury of Russia) reported the main parameters of the federal budget as of March 24, 2023.

Its revenues amounted to 3.46 trillion rubles, expenses - 7.37 trillion rubles, budget deficit - 3.91 trillion rubles. The amount of federal budget expenditures classified by functional areas (economy, social policy, etc.) amounted to almost 5 trillion rubles. In particular, the declared expenses under the item "National Defense" were equal to 531 billion rubles. The difference between all expenses and expenses distributed by functional items is almost 2.4 trillion rubles. represents a secret part of the costs, amounting to almost a third of all costs.

According to experts, the budget expenditures of law enforcement agencies, directly or indirectly related to the war against Ukraine, are classified. Thus, the actual expenditures on military operations are the sum of expenditures under the open item "National Defense" and secret expenditures, that is, 2901 billion rubles.

Strictly speaking, this figure does not give a complete picture of all the military-financial efforts of Russia. To this figure, one should also add the valuation of military equipment, weapons, ammunition, and other military materials produced in previous years, but subject to reactivation, withdrawal from warehouses, transportation to the front line and use in combat operations in the reporting period. However, such data is not currently available.

Thus, the minimum estimate of Russia's spending on the war for the first 83 days of 2023 (as of March 24) turns out to be 2901 billion rubles, or 40 billion dollars, which is 39.4% of all federal budget expenditures and approximately 8.1 % GDP Q1 2023

The average exchange rate in the first 83 days of 2023 amounted to 72.6 rubles. per US dollar.
The estimate of GDP in the 1st quarter of 2023 is assumed to be 36 trillion rubles.

Based on the fact that all spending on the war as of March 24, 2023 reached $40 billion, Russia's average monthly military spending in the first three months of 2023 amounted to at least $14.4 billion."

PS. The whole Western monthly help to Ukraine is estimated at about $5B per months. Not American, mind you, WHOLE Western help, including EC, UK, Sweden, etc. All ultimately financed from Russian assets frozen abroad.

Who attrits who again?

socal2 says

I don't think many can dispute the current battle maps. Is anyone claiming Russia has more land under their control then what is shown below?

At best, Russia is locked in a stalemate and hanging onto Eastern Ukraine is going to be a massive drain on blood and treasure which will be a festering wound for decades. It will make the Israeli/Palestinian conflict look like nothing.

Unless Russia can somehow deliver a knockout punch that topples the government in Kiev causing a total route of military command - how does Russia "win" under the current reality?

You are misunderstanding the dynamics of warfare on the Eurasian Steppes. The "stalemate" grinding in Stalingrad from August 1942 to January 1943 took 5+ months; Stalingrad would be no more than a couple pixels at the resolution of your map but a long distance to the east (to the east of Donetsk by about the same distance as the distance between Kiyv and Karkiv on your map, i.e. about 1/3 to 1/2 the entire strategic depth of Ukraine). After building up the reserves during and after the Stalingrad meat grinder, it took the Soviet army only 2 months to not only cover that distance but also capture Karkov (name for Karkiv back then) and pushing on the Bug-River-line before Manstein's "genius" counter-stroke (3rd Battle of Karkov). Then 5-6 months of relative frontline stability prepping and fighting the Battle of Kursk, followed by Soviet advance on Kiev (Kyiv) within a couple months, then Nazi German armies and allies were pushed out of almost all of Ukraine shortly after that. Warfare on the interior Eurasian Steppes is not measured in captured land or forts, but in terms of logistic/reserve build-up and elimination of enemy fighting forces in concentrated battles followed by extremely rapid advances.

They say that Bakhmut is a hub of extensive underground facilities. Mostly, though, the asinine West, NWO, Globalist fools, our neocon embedded political criminals have given Ukraine the ultimatum that if they don't keep the place, then their billions in aid packages and weapons will be curtailed through lack of confidence. I have never read anything so far what particular strategic charm Bakhmut holds, but there is something there they really want to keep.

Reality says

After building up the reserves during and after the Stalingrad meat grinder, it took the Soviet army only 2 months to not only cover that distance but also capture Karkov (name for Karkiv back then) and pushing on the Bug-River-line before Manstein's "genius" counter-stroke (3rd Battle of Karkov).

I really don't think Russia of 2023 is the same thing as the Soviet army of WWII that had an almost limitless supply of MOTIVATED men and huge financial backing from the West. The Russia Lend Lease program was the equivalent of $180 Billion dollars of US aid!

Kim Iversen had a guest on who seems to really understand this war. They’re saying it could be over any day now with an unconditional surrender by Ukraine if peace talks don’t go well. Zelenskyy put all his troops in Bahkmut where the salt mines can hide his weapons and supplies, so if they are captured or killed, the war is over.
Sounds like that’s happened now.
Expect peace talks next.
https://youtu.be/bw1euDVn41Y

All we need now is for the fat lady to sing ...

socal2 says

Reality says

After building up the reserves during and after the Stalingrad meat grinder, it took the Soviet army only 2 months to not only cover that distance but also capture Karkov (name for Karkiv back then) and pushing on the Bug-River-line before Manstein's "genius" counter-stroke (3rd Battle of Karkov).

I really don't think Russia of 2023 is the same thing as the Soviet army of WWII that had an almost limitless supply of MOTIVATED men and huge financial backing from the West. The Russia Lend Lease program was the equivalent of $180 Billion dollars of US aid!

Western Allied invasion of Sicily in July 1943 was a very important factor in Hitler's decision to stop Battle of Kurst, and Lend Lease trucks were very important to Soviet advance after 1944 Operation Bagration and into Eastern Europe. However, the rapidly advance mentioned above took place in early 1943, before the overwhelming majority of the Lend Lease material arrived. Russia army of today is likely far more mobile than the soviet army of early 1943, on account of automobile technology advance alone.

socal2 says

The only way the war ends is for Russia to stop invading and occupying their sovereign neighbor.

No, it can end another way. With the dissolution of the NATO and the failure of the US government which has spent the last 20 years invading sovereign nations.

I don't see why people can't understand this. We have an entirely criminal government, an obvious two tiered judicial system, open criminality of of DOJ and intelligence agencies, we have constant unrelenting propaganda in the United States that is every bit as bad as the USSR was. They are trying to implement 15 minute cities over a climate emergency that didn't exist. We've been lied to for 2 years about a pandemic that wasn't a pandemic at all, the US is ceding it's own sovereignty to UN creations like the WHO.

Our population is being forced to accept child drag queens, and "gender affirming care" for children. The FBI sets up and entraps citizens for protest, our media has collapsed in credibility - nobody watches or listens to CNN, Fox, the NY Times, etc, unless they are fucking stupid - they grace period of ignorance and "I couldn't know" is over after 4 years of blatant lies about Trump.

We're marching into oblivion and ruin and for some reason propaganda is supposed to fix it all.

Russia China and India are interdependent upon one another, and will continue to work together. The BRICS nations will continue to develop and create alliances as they still have real economies where the United States doesn't. Our entire financial system is built on fraud, everything is bankrupt, Europe is being harmed by this war far more than the US or Russia is for that matter. We've spend something like 20 trillion dollars on these pointless stupid wars and this is just more of the same.

Russia, China and India think the United States is a bunch of basketcases, and they are right. Hollyweird has lost its ability to enforce social control, the US government is not trusted, 1/2 the country doesn't believe Biden was elected, and he very likely was not. We recognize we do indeed have a deep state, censorship is being employed aggressively to keep this spitball together and it's just going to get worse.

The US doesn't give a FUCK about sovereignty of nations, they overthrew Ukraine in 2014. The US has been on a suicidal trajectory for the last 2 decades solid and they started all this by doing a false flag attack on the WTC on 9/11/2001 - they tried this before when the WTC was bombed on February 26, 1993 - Emad Salem was a whistleblower for this, but our media didn't cover him, and it was entirely forgotten.

We have people being purposely driven insane by our government to such a point that the definitions of "woman" and "man" are now in question.

And we're supposed to worry about another foreign war? You're insane.

This is our society now:

https://www.brighteon.com/e6c05212-afb2-46eb-ba11-6d1e8c9a6c2a

richwicks says

socal2 says

The only way the war ends is for Russia to stop invading and occupying their sovereign neighbor.

No, it can end another way. With the dissolution of the NATO and the failure of the US government which has spent the last 20 years invading sovereign nations.

FFS.

For the killing to stop, Richwicks needs Ukraine to lose AND the dissolution of NATO - AND the downfall of the US Government?

Anything else?

How about some reparations to the former Commies and Putin for America being so mean for having the temerity to push back against Marxism that the USSR spread all over the planet?

Nah - I think the easiest way to stop the needless death and destruction is for Putin to remove his crap-ass invading army out of Ukraine. We can talk about Russia paying back reparations to Ukraine for their fuck up at a later date.

socal2 says

For the killing to stop, Richwicks needs Ukraine to lose AND the dissolution of NATO - AND the downfall of the US Government?

Please, do not strawman me.

The idea that Russia is just going to fold up and disappear is about as stupid as thinking that the Iraq war will pay for itself, and we'd be greeted like liberators.

I do not expect the war to end any time soon. I expect the duration to be AT LEAST as long as this Biden presidency. Minimum 2 more years, I expect it to actually be 5+ years.

https://patrick.net/post/1343140/2021-12-29-a-ukraine-war-and-the-end-of-russia?start=1#comment-1808895

That's what I think, and I said that before the war began. I had HOPE it would be quick, but no. This is yet another stupid proxy war, and it's going to go on for a long time.

The killing isn't going to stop. All the Ukrainian men of fighting age and ability are going to be killed, it will be staffed with mercenaries, THEY will be killed. China might enter into this on the Russian side just to get practice for a real war which the US is threatening.

socal2 says

Nah - I think the easiest way to stop the needless death and destruction is for Putin to remove his crap-ass invading army out of Ukraine.

He's not going to do this. Putin isn't some fucking dictator, even real dictators need a set of support to keep power. If Putin drops dead of "cancer" (remember when he had cancer, supposedly?), or whatever, Medvedev will just continue on this path. It was Medvedev that went into Georgia when S. Ossetia was attacked. THAT was done in just a day, Georgia is a lot smaller than Ukraine.

Georgia was doing the same bullshit too. Had US puppet president, was pretending that they were going to join the EU, asking for membership in NATO. It was like a little Ukraine.

You know how I know this war is going to go on for a good, fucking long time, that's every war the United States starts. The US was in Afghanistan for 20 years, what was the mission of that? There's no mission in Ukraine either.

I don't know why people keep falling for US propaganda over and over again. Some of the propaganda about this is so stupid, I don't see how you can have ANY trust in the US claims about what this war is even about. You seriously think the US is concerned with sovereignty of Ukraine? I think they have a couple of reasons for this conflict, they want to weaken Russia, they want to restart the Cold War, they want to end energy exports of Russia to Europe, they want to sell energy to Europe, they want to keep the world on the US dollar as well. Probably a 1/2 dozen more reasons than that, and a few I am entirely oblivious about.

In another year or two, our media will just stop mentioning Ukraine but the war will continue. I remember in 2013 I asked my cousin is similarly interested in all these stupid conflicts "are we still at war with Afghanistan?" and he wasn't certain. Our media just stopped reporting on it. Are we still at war in Syria? Yes, we are. Our media just stops talking about it, and nobody knows and they are like "hey, when did that war end?" - that's what's going to happen with Ukraine. It's going to go on FOREVER.

richwicks says

socal2 says

For the killing to stop, Richwicks needs Ukraine to lose AND the dissolution of NATO - AND the downfall of the US Government?

Please, do not strawman me.

You flat out said: "With the dissolution of the NATO and the failure of the US government".

richwicks says

You know how I know this war is going to go on for a good, fucking long time, that's every war the United States starts. The US was in Afghanistan for 20 years, what was the mission of that? There's no mission in Ukraine either.

All the US wars since Vietnam were small bush fires compared to massive human atrocity happening in Ukraine.

Russia lost nearly double the troops in Ukraine in 12 months than the US lost in Vietnam over 10 years. The US had around 2.000 hostile action deaths in Afghanistan over a 20 year period. Russia is losing that many people almost every week in Ukraine. Russia only lost about 10,000 troops in Afghanistan back in the 80's and that was enough for them to pull out.

Russia's demographics were a basket case before the war and are only worse now with so many of their young men dead and planted in the frozen ground in Eastern Ukraine.

I really don't think Russia can keep up this tempo. Any future big pushes to Kiev are off the table - so all they will be able to do is try to hunker down and defend themselves in the land they currently occupy in Eastern Ukraine.

What a shit show.