patrick.net

RWSGFY says

The mighty winter offensive was such a success the Nazi fuckers are reduced to begging for immediate ceasefire with no preconditions: https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-736032

Who are the "Nazi fuckers"? Ukrainians or Russians?

RWSGFY says

Another powerful answer to all these fragile Western tanks entering the field - the robust and deadly T-12 100mm smoothbore anti-tank gun:

https://twitter.com/auto_glam/status/1642269122447695874?ref_src=patrick.net

All this is doing is getting a lot of people needlessly killed. End the fucking war. Russia can't lose, if they wanted, they could end this tomorrow with nuclear weaponry, but it could escalate with a war with Europe, which they could ALSO end. They are either #2 or #1 in nuclear armaments.

End this fucking war. The longer it goes on, the more people die.

Russia does the same thing the US does, they use shit equipment to fight dumbshit wars. They will not risk their best technology. We do the same, we don't send top of the line technology, we downgrade it before we ship it. It's just a meat grinder.

What is the real conflict between Russia, Ukraine, and Europe? Why can't this be solved diplomatically? What's the fucking conflict?

Bd6r says

Perhaps origins of war are at least partially in hydrocarbons, as often is the case. NATO joining rhetoric by itself is insufficient, as Finland having as long border with Russia will be in NATO soon and is not attacked..

LOL! Be careful when wandering off script. Russia/Soviet-Union never had a history invading any country for oil/hydrocarbons (Czechslovakia, Hungary, Afghanistan, all oil importers; all 3 were countries in its neighborhood/sphere-of-influence).The Bankster-controlled US regime (i.e. the Deep State, often contrary to the interest of American public), OTOH, has a long history of invading or causing wars in countries that export oil/hydrocarbon . . . not for what most people assume (grabbing their oil) but for stopping the production/exporting of oil from those countries, so that oil/hydrocarbon prices can be elevated on the world market for a few years. How does that pattern fit with the current war in Ukraine?

As for Finland joining NATO, it's just a way to provoke/entice Russia to invade through Lapland to reach Norway (Finnish Lapland has roads, whereas existing border area between Norway and Russia is mostly rocky shores covered with frozen tundra, impassable), which "owns" a sovereign wealth fund over $1 Trillion! That is a huge liability on the UK/US/Swiss banks' books owed to only about 5 million people (Norwegian population), so a Russian take-over of Norway would be an easier way to settle the accounts with some kind of Norwegian government-in-exile. Finnish public are not happy with their pretty-face bought-and-paid-for (i.e. whorish) prime minister who signed up the deal, just voted her out of office. BTW, now you also understand why Norwegian government promotes EV's for their citizens: as soon as the grid is cut, those EV owners would not be able to drive south to the warmer area in case of emergency in winter, which is very cold and long in the northern/inland ("inland" as in upland and away from fjords) 80+% of Norway . . . and also why the bought-and-paid-for position of NATO Secretary is occupied by a bought-and-paid-for Norwegian despite the tiny size of Norway compared to other NATO countries.

https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/hows-that-war-going/

How’s That War Going?

“The American press, once the guardian of democracy, was hollowed out to the point that it could be worn like a hand puppet by the U.S. security agencies and party operatives….Disinformation is both the name of the crime and the means of covering it up; a weapon that doubles as a disguise.” — Jacob Siegel

How’s the war going? Huh? Do you mean the war over in Ukraine? Or the US government’s war against its own people?

Well, the first one, the Ukraine War, is mostly destroying Europe — though, apparently, they haven’t figured that out yet. Europe’s industrial economy is toast without affordable Russian natgas. We turned off their pipeline for that in September and nobody in Europe objected. They just sucked it up and went back to smoking cigarettes at their café tables. A year or so from now, nobody in Europe will have enough money for a cappuccino (or cigarettes) and maybe then they’ll start asking the mental mollusks who run things there some questions — if they don’t just leapfrog all that politesse and burn the joint down.

The main thing about the Ukraine War is that the US doesn’t want it to end. You understand, it is not about any airy-fairy principles such as freedom for Ukraine. It’s about antagonizing Russia no matter how many dead Ukrainians it takes, because US officials developed a delusional psychosis about Russia after years of using it to mind-fuck American citizens, and we have to justify that antagonism by pretending we have vested interests in Ukraine, which we don’t, by the way.

So far, everything we’ve done to promote the conflict has backfired on Western Civ. Most of the rest of the world recognizes that the US has gone insane and they are taking careful steps to decouple from us — mainly to stop using our money for international trade. Really, would you want to have anything to do with a crazy person? No, you’d put as much distance between you and him as possible and stop even trying to communicate. If the world stops using the dollar in trade, the dollar will lose value, and so will the trillions in US bond paper held by other countries, which said countries will seek to unload as quickly as possible. Can you spell sovereign debt crisis? Look out below….

You get the picture? Now how about that other war: our government’s war against us? What canny reporters (Taibbi, Shellenberger) are calling the Censorship Industrial Complex has been pretty well outed. Everybody knows that the FBI, CIA, DHS, and many other agencies, via hijacked social media, have worked tirelessly to confound and bamboozle the public debate about, really, everything that matters. The odd part is that roughly half of America doesn’t seem to care. Of course, that is the same half of the country that has fallen in love with surveillance, censorship, political prosecutions, election monkey business, mandated mRNA shots, and other excursions into bad faith. Their auditors in the mainstream news media actually seem to relish their roles as enforcers of unreality.

richwicks says

All this is doing is getting a lot of people needlessly killed. End the fucking war. Russia can't lose, if they wanted, they could end this tomorrow with nuclear weaponry, but it could escalate with a war with Europe, which they could ALSO end. They are either #2 or #1 in nuclear armaments.

End this fucking war. The longer it goes on, the more people die.

I have been saying this for months.

The only way the war ends is for Russia to stop invading and occupying their sovereign neighbor. There is no universe where Ukraine stops defending their nation conventionally or bleeding out Russia for decades through insurgency. Yet we have loads of people in the US and on this forum ostensibly cheering Russia on to continue the needless death and destruction thinking that the pathetic Russian military can somehow wring out a quick victory.

You say "Russia can't lose"? Russia already lost the war back in March/April last year when they failed to topple the Government and take Kiev. It has been nothing but a very painful clownshow for Russia ever since.

What good are nukes to Russia in this conflict? Are they going to create a radioactive wasteland right on their Western border and enjoy years of radioactive breezes in Moscow? What about all that prime resource rich land in Eastern Ukraine that Russia currently occupies?

So all together now: "Putin End this Fucking War!"

I've noticed that many on this site are rightfully suspicious of any Western reporting on Ukraine. Fair enough. It is hard to know precise numbers of casualties as both Russia and Ukraine have vested interested in keeping that info secret.

But I don't think many can dispute the current battle maps. Is anyone claiming Russia has more land under their control then what is shown below?


https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1642323710072836097?ref_src=patrick.net

Can anyone watch the battle timeline below and really believe that Russia is "winning" after a year of so much loss of life and material?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pfmQpennxM

At best, Russia is locked in a stalemate and hanging onto Eastern Ukraine is going to be a massive drain on blood and treasure which will be a festering wound for decades. It will make the Israeli/Palestinian conflict look like nothing.

Unless Russia can somehow deliver a knockout punch that topples the government in Kiev causing a total route of military command - how does Russia "win" under the current reality?

socal2 says

I've noticed that many on this site are rightfully suspicious of any Western reporting on Ukraine. Fair enough. It is hard to know precise numbers of casualties as both Russia and Ukraine have vested interested in keeping that info secret.

But I don't think many can dispute the current battle maps. Is anyone claiming Russia has more land under their control then what is shown below?


https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1642323710072836097?ref_src=patrick.net

Can anyone watch the battle timeline below and really believe that Russia is "winning" after a year of so much loss of life and material?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pfmQpennxM

At best, Russia is locked in a...

But Bakhmut has been ceded by the Ukes - Russia is now in control. This effectively disproves the maps, etc., you have provided.

This is a war of attrition, not a computer war game of instant gratification. Russia is ponderous and patient. Ukraine will just run out of stuff, or run out of Western nations wasting their stuff on them, and Russia will be able to walk in where they want. It doesn't matter what they occupy or don't occupy at the moment.

stereotomy says

But Bakhmut has been ceded by the Ukes - Russia is now in control. This effectively disproves the maps, etc., you have provided.

Bakhmut doesn't even represent a centimeter west on the overall map and Ukraine is disputing Wagner's claims of taking the whole city.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-zelenskiy-situation-bakhmut-especially-hot-2023-04-02/

Even is Russia captured all of Bakhmut how does that disprove the map?

Ceffer says

and Russia will be able to walk in where they want.

Yet Russia lost roughly 50% of the initial Ukrainian land they "conquered" last year.

So much for Russia can walk wherever they want.

Ukraine can certainly run out of men and Western weapons.

But it is a joke to believe that Russia is some sort of juggernaut with unlimited supply of men and material. This is not WWII with lots of disposable peasant families with 10+ kids to be thrown in as cannon fodder. At some point, Russia will have to begin drafting upper middle class folks who are not as easily brainwashed or motivated as ethnic peasants and prisoners.

stereotomy says

But Bakhmut has been ceded by the Ukes - Russia is now in control.

Yes!...

This is the Wagner group raising the Russian flag and the banner of Wagner over the now occupied administrative buildings of Bakhmut.



The_Deplorable

G-translated from a Russian economist's blog (https://aillarionov.livejournal.com/1359058.html):

Russia's spending on the war is at least 14 billion dollars. per month

The state portal "Electronic budget" (its operators are the Ministry of Finance and the Treasury of Russia) reported the main parameters of the federal budget as of March 24, 2023.

Its revenues amounted to 3.46 trillion rubles, expenses - 7.37 trillion rubles, budget deficit - 3.91 trillion rubles. The amount of federal budget expenditures classified by functional areas (economy, social policy, etc.) amounted to almost 5 trillion rubles. In particular, the declared expenses under the item "National Defense" were equal to 531 billion rubles. The difference between all expenses and expenses distributed by functional items is almost 2.4 trillion rubles. represents a secret part of the costs, amounting to almost a third of all costs.

According to experts, the budget expenditures of law enforcement agencies, directly or indirectly related to the war against Ukraine, are classified. Thus, the actual expenditures on military operations are the sum of expenditures under the open item "National Defense" and secret expenditures, that is, 2901 billion rubles.

Strictly speaking, this figure does not give a complete picture of all the military-financial efforts of Russia. To this figure, one should also add the valuation of military equipment, weapons, ammunition, and other military materials produced in previous years, but subject to reactivation, withdrawal from warehouses, transportation to the front line and use in combat operations in the reporting period. However, such data is not currently available.

Thus, the minimum estimate of Russia's spending on the war for the first 83 days of 2023 (as of March 24) turns out to be 2901 billion rubles, or 40 billion dollars, which is 39.4% of all federal budget expenditures and approximately 8.1 % GDP Q1 2023

The average exchange rate in the first 83 days of 2023 amounted to 72.6 rubles. per US dollar.
The estimate of GDP in the 1st quarter of 2023 is assumed to be 36 trillion rubles.

Based on the fact that all spending on the war as of March 24, 2023 reached $40 billion, Russia's average monthly military spending in the first three months of 2023 amounted to at least $14.4 billion."

PS. The whole Western monthly help to Ukraine is estimated at about $5B per months. Not American, mind you, WHOLE Western help, including EC, UK, Sweden, etc. All ultimately financed from Russian assets frozen abroad.

Who attrits who again?

socal2 says

I don't think many can dispute the current battle maps. Is anyone claiming Russia has more land under their control then what is shown below?

At best, Russia is locked in a stalemate and hanging onto Eastern Ukraine is going to be a massive drain on blood and treasure which will be a festering wound for decades. It will make the Israeli/Palestinian conflict look like nothing.

Unless Russia can somehow deliver a knockout punch that topples the government in Kiev causing a total route of military command - how does Russia "win" under the current reality?

You are misunderstanding the dynamics of warfare on the Eurasian Steppes. The "stalemate" grinding in Stalingrad from August 1942 to January 1943 took 5+ months; Stalingrad would be no more than a couple pixels at the resolution of your map but a long distance to the east (to the east of Donetsk by about the same distance as the distance between Kiyv and Karkiv on your map, i.e. about 1/3 to 1/2 the entire strategic depth of Ukraine). After building up the reserves during and after the Stalingrad meat grinder, it took the Soviet army only 2 months to not only cover that distance but also capture Karkov (name for Karkiv back then) and pushing on the Bug-River-line before Manstein's "genius" counter-stroke (3rd Battle of Karkov). Then 5-6 months of relative frontline stability prepping and fighting the Battle of Kursk, followed by Soviet advance on Kiev (Kyiv) within a couple months, then Nazi German armies and allies were pushed out of almost all of Ukraine shortly after that. Warfare on the interior Eurasian Steppes is not measured in captured land or forts, but in terms of logistic/reserve build-up and elimination of enemy fighting forces in concentrated battles followed by extremely rapid advances.

They say that Bakhmut is a hub of extensive underground facilities. Mostly, though, the asinine West, NWO, Globalist fools, our neocon embedded political criminals have given Ukraine the ultimatum that if they don't keep the place, then their billions in aid packages and weapons will be curtailed through lack of confidence. I have never read anything so far what particular strategic charm Bakhmut holds, but there is something there they really want to keep.

Reality says

After building up the reserves during and after the Stalingrad meat grinder, it took the Soviet army only 2 months to not only cover that distance but also capture Karkov (name for Karkiv back then) and pushing on the Bug-River-line before Manstein's "genius" counter-stroke (3rd Battle of Karkov).

I really don't think Russia of 2023 is the same thing as the Soviet army of WWII that had an almost limitless supply of MOTIVATED men and huge financial backing from the West. The Russia Lend Lease program was the equivalent of $180 Billion dollars of US aid!

Kim Iversen had a guest on who seems to really understand this war. They’re saying it could be over any day now with an unconditional surrender by Ukraine if peace talks don’t go well. Zelenskyy put all his troops in Bahkmut where the salt mines can hide his weapons and supplies, so if they are captured or killed, the war is over.
Sounds like that’s happened now.
Expect peace talks next.
https://youtu.be/bw1euDVn41Y

All we need now is for the fat lady to sing ...

socal2 says

Reality says

After building up the reserves during and after the Stalingrad meat grinder, it took the Soviet army only 2 months to not only cover that distance but also capture Karkov (name for Karkiv back then) and pushing on the Bug-River-line before Manstein's "genius" counter-stroke (3rd Battle of Karkov).

I really don't think Russia of 2023 is the same thing as the Soviet army of WWII that had an almost limitless supply of MOTIVATED men and huge financial backing from the West. The Russia Lend Lease program was the equivalent of $180 Billion dollars of US aid!

Western Allied invasion of Sicily in July 1943 was a very important factor in Hitler's decision to stop Battle of Kurst, and Lend Lease trucks were very important to Soviet advance after 1944 Operation Bagration and into Eastern Europe. However, the rapidly advance mentioned above took place in early 1943, before the overwhelming majority of the Lend Lease material arrived. Russia army of today is likely far more mobile than the soviet army of early 1943, on account of automobile technology advance alone.

socal2 says

The only way the war ends is for Russia to stop invading and occupying their sovereign neighbor.

No, it can end another way. With the dissolution of the NATO and the failure of the US government which has spent the last 20 years invading sovereign nations.

I don't see why people can't understand this. We have an entirely criminal government, an obvious two tiered judicial system, open criminality of of DOJ and intelligence agencies, we have constant unrelenting propaganda in the United States that is every bit as bad as the USSR was. They are trying to implement 15 minute cities over a climate emergency that didn't exist. We've been lied to for 2 years about a pandemic that wasn't a pandemic at all, the US is ceding it's own sovereignty to UN creations like the WHO.

Our population is being forced to accept child drag queens, and "gender affirming care" for children. The FBI sets up and entraps citizens for protest, our media has collapsed in credibility - nobody watches or listens to CNN, Fox, the NY Times, etc, unless they are fucking stupid - they grace period of ignorance and "I couldn't know" is over after 4 years of blatant lies about Trump.

We're marching into oblivion and ruin and for some reason propaganda is supposed to fix it all.

Russia China and India are interdependent upon one another, and will continue to work together. The BRICS nations will continue to develop and create alliances as they still have real economies where the United States doesn't. Our entire financial system is built on fraud, everything is bankrupt, Europe is being harmed by this war far more than the US or Russia is for that matter. We've spend something like 20 trillion dollars on these pointless stupid wars and this is just more of the same.

Russia, China and India think the United States is a bunch of basketcases, and they are right. Hollyweird has lost its ability to enforce social control, the US government is not trusted, 1/2 the country doesn't believe Biden was elected, and he very likely was not. We recognize we do indeed have a deep state, censorship is being employed aggressively to keep this spitball together and it's just going to get worse.

The US doesn't give a FUCK about sovereignty of nations, they overthrew Ukraine in 2014. The US has been on a suicidal trajectory for the last 2 decades solid and they started all this by doing a false flag attack on the WTC on 9/11/2001 - they tried this before when the WTC was bombed on February 26, 1993 - Emad Salem was a whistleblower for this, but our media didn't cover him, and it was entirely forgotten.

We have people being purposely driven insane by our government to such a point that the definitions of "woman" and "man" are now in question.

And we're supposed to worry about another foreign war? You're insane.

This is our society now:

https://www.brighteon.com/e6c05212-afb2-46eb-ba11-6d1e8c9a6c2a

richwicks says

socal2 says

The only way the war ends is for Russia to stop invading and occupying their sovereign neighbor.

No, it can end another way. With the dissolution of the NATO and the failure of the US government which has spent the last 20 years invading sovereign nations.

FFS.

For the killing to stop, Richwicks needs Ukraine to lose AND the dissolution of NATO - AND the downfall of the US Government?

Anything else?

How about some reparations to the former Commies and Putin for America being so mean for having the temerity to push back against Marxism that the USSR spread all over the planet?

Nah - I think the easiest way to stop the needless death and destruction is for Putin to remove his crap-ass invading army out of Ukraine. We can talk about Russia paying back reparations to Ukraine for their fuck up at a later date.

socal2 says

For the killing to stop, Richwicks needs Ukraine to lose AND the dissolution of NATO - AND the downfall of the US Government?

Please, do not strawman me.

The idea that Russia is just going to fold up and disappear is about as stupid as thinking that the Iraq war will pay for itself, and we'd be greeted like liberators.

I do not expect the war to end any time soon. I expect the duration to be AT LEAST as long as this Biden presidency. Minimum 2 more years, I expect it to actually be 5+ years.

https://patrick.net/post/1343140/2021-12-29-a-ukraine-war-and-the-end-of-russia?start=1#comment-1808895

That's what I think, and I said that before the war began. I had HOPE it would be quick, but no. This is yet another stupid proxy war, and it's going to go on for a long time.

The killing isn't going to stop. All the Ukrainian men of fighting age and ability are going to be killed, it will be staffed with mercenaries, THEY will be killed. China might enter into this on the Russian side just to get practice for a real war which the US is threatening.

socal2 says

Nah - I think the easiest way to stop the needless death and destruction is for Putin to remove his crap-ass invading army out of Ukraine.

He's not going to do this. Putin isn't some fucking dictator, even real dictators need a set of support to keep power. If Putin drops dead of "cancer" (remember when he had cancer, supposedly?), or whatever, Medvedev will just continue on this path. It was Medvedev that went into Georgia when S. Ossetia was attacked. THAT was done in just a day, Georgia is a lot smaller than Ukraine.

Georgia was doing the same bullshit too. Had US puppet president, was pretending that they were going to join the EU, asking for membership in NATO. It was like a little Ukraine.

You know how I know this war is going to go on for a good, fucking long time, that's every war the United States starts. The US was in Afghanistan for 20 years, what was the mission of that? There's no mission in Ukraine either.

I don't know why people keep falling for US propaganda over and over again. Some of the propaganda about this is so stupid, I don't see how you can have ANY trust in the US claims about what this war is even about. You seriously think the US is concerned with sovereignty of Ukraine? I think they have a couple of reasons for this conflict, they want to weaken Russia, they want to restart the Cold War, they want to end energy exports of Russia to Europe, they want to sell energy to Europe, they want to keep the world on the US dollar as well. Probably a 1/2 dozen more reasons than that, and a few I am entirely oblivious about.

In another year or two, our media will just stop mentioning Ukraine but the war will continue. I remember in 2013 I asked my cousin is similarly interested in all these stupid conflicts "are we still at war with Afghanistan?" and he wasn't certain. Our media just stopped reporting on it. Are we still at war in Syria? Yes, we are. Our media just stops talking about it, and nobody knows and they are like "hey, when did that war end?" - that's what's going to happen with Ukraine. It's going to go on FOREVER.

richwicks says

socal2 says

For the killing to stop, Richwicks needs Ukraine to lose AND the dissolution of NATO - AND the downfall of the US Government?

Please, do not strawman me.

You flat out said: "With the dissolution of the NATO and the failure of the US government".

richwicks says

You know how I know this war is going to go on for a good, fucking long time, that's every war the United States starts. The US was in Afghanistan for 20 years, what was the mission of that? There's no mission in Ukraine either.

All the US wars since Vietnam were small bush fires compared to massive human atrocity happening in Ukraine.

Russia lost nearly double the troops in Ukraine in 12 months than the US lost in Vietnam over 10 years. The US had around 2.000 hostile action deaths in Afghanistan over a 20 year period. Russia is losing that many people almost every week in Ukraine. Russia only lost about 10,000 troops in Afghanistan back in the 80's and that was enough for them to pull out.

Russia's demographics were a basket case before the war and are only worse now with so many of their young men dead and planted in the frozen ground in Eastern Ukraine.

I really don't think Russia can keep up this tempo. Any future big pushes to Kiev are off the table - so all they will be able to do is try to hunker down and defend themselves in the land they currently occupy in Eastern Ukraine.

What a shit show.

socal2 says

richwicks says

socal2 says

For the killing to stop, Richwicks needs Ukraine to lose AND the dissolution of NATO - AND the downfall of the US Government?

Please, do not strawman me.

You flat out said: "With the dissolution of the NATO and the failure of the US government".

Yes, this is a real possibility. This is a real fucking possibility.

socal2 says

All the US wars since Vietnam were small bush fires compared to massive human atrocity happening in Ukraine.

Pfft - are you kidding? Vietnam got something like 2 million killed. Ukraine is nothing compared to it - that includes Cambodia where the US supported the Khmer Rouge.

We need to stop doing this shit. We only fuck things up, and it damages this nation. Why the fuck are we doing this? Well Northrop Grumman's stock is going up! Nancy Pelosi is making a fucking fortune on it. That's all that bitch cares about, and if it it kills 150,000 Ukrainians, oh well.

You need to understand what a sociopath is, there's LOTS of them in our government.
socal2 says

Russia lost nearly double the troops in Ukraine in 12 months than the US lost in Vietnam over 10 years

Do not trust any news in a time of war.

In Vietnam, the US reported 1 death for every 10 Americans death, and this wasn't revealed until after the war.

We do not know. Accept that.

socal2 says

I really don't think Russia can keep up this tempo. Any future big pushes to Kiev are off the table - so all they will be able to do is try to hunker down and defend themselves in the land they currently occupy in Eastern Ukraine.

What a shit show.

War is always a shit show, that's why it should be avoided, and why I hate the fucking Neocons so goddamned much.

This entire conflict was caused by them. Fuck them.

Don't trust our media, it lies constantly. The same is true of our government. Fuck them all. All they do is lie to us, and I can show you blaring examples of this:

original link
Is our media so fucking stupid they believed this was a Ukrainian fighter pilot or do they think you're so fucking stupid you would believe he was a Ukrainian fighter pilot?

This is our propaganda. It's stupid and childish. It's insulting I have to see this in my nation. It's embarrassing. I guarantee this is used as Russian propaganda today. This is an example of "how fucking dumb Americans are". We did the same thing to the USSR 40 years ago. Radio Free America showed how stupid the propaganda was in Russia then. It helped to collapse them, and good riddance. It was an empire built on lies.

Now we are the empire built on lies. Find the weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq yet? FUCK BUSH.

I don't think Russia cares about Kiev. On to Odessa and Transnistria perhaps, upon which anything coming from Kiev will be a hollow wind. Kiev will be landlocked, depleted of resources with hobbling infrastructure, all that Babylonian debt pending for their proxy war for the NWO, a bunch of 'leaders' emigrated with as much of the treasuries, black market swag and laundered money they can lay their hands on and no further viable organized criminal enterprises of scale to attract the Globalists or the West, not to mention the piles of dead men and the liability of the surviving wounded. I will be surprised if the Russians don't do that after they wrap up Bahkmut.

Who knows, when it finishes, Kiev might ask to repatriate to Russia for bailouts and to have a daddy state (maybe after Poland, Rumania and Hungary take their bites of territory). It'll be weird whatever happens.

socal2 says

For the killing to stop, Richwicks needs Ukraine to lose AND the dissolution of NATO - AND the downfall of the US Government?

Anything else?

That's about it. Mostly we need the downfall of this illegitimate government that has coopted Ukraine into a money laundry.

Dissolution of NATO would just be a bonus.

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/level-four-friday-april-14-2023-c

Last night, Tucker Carlson also got it, he found the real story in all the noise. Tucker broadcast his monologue about the actual significance of this story: the constant lying and the illegal, unauthorized proxy war.

Fox’s most popular commenter correctly identified that the U.S. isn’t just helping out an underdog democratic government fight off an evil invader. This is actually World War III:

“The slides show that this is not Ukraine’s war. It’s our war. The United States is a direct combatant in a war against Russia. As we speak, American soldiers are fighting Russian soldiers. So this is not a regional conflict in Eastern Europe. This is a hot war between the two primary nuclear superpowers on Earth.”

Tucker also noted that the government’s internal records say the reverse opposite of the lies the U.S. government and its credulous cronies in the corporate media have been peddling for 14 months:

“The second thing we learned from these slides is that despite direct U.S. involvement, Ukraine is in fact losing the war. Seven Ukrainians are being killed for every Russian. Ukrainian air defenses have been utterly degraded. Ukraine is losing.”

Don’t listen to Tucker, he’s a Putin-lover!

Tucker also accurately concluded that, absent Congressional approval, the proxy war is radioactive-level illegal: “But Lloyd Austin has not been arrested for committing that crime,” Tucker said. “Instead, the only man who has been taken into custody or likely ever will be, is a 21 year old Massachusetts air national guardsmen.”

Here’s Tucker’s 10-minute monologue:

https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1646684037023514630?ref_src=patrick.net

https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/disorder-is-the-order-of-the-day/

... I guess our cyber-security isn’t what it’s cracked up to be. But then, neither is our war effort in Ukraine. Yes, our war effort. We own this war from tail to snout, lock, stock, and barrel, the whole shootin’ match. We started it (in 2014, when we began the preps there), we goaded the Russians into it in bad faith, and now we’re losing it. Why? Because it was a stupid venture from the get-go. Now, it’s really a matter of how psychotic our government’s reaction will be when the Russians restore order to the place.

Restore order? That’s right. I believe that’s what they’re aiming to do. Our country went into Ukraine to create disorder in that corner of the world — which has been within Russia’s sphere-of-influence for over three hundred years, you understand. ...

The mysterious “Joe Biden” regime, in its brief two-plus years of service, has proven especially adept at creating fiascos. Are they aiming for the gold ring in this Ukraine gambit, that is, nuclear war? People seriously wonder. Or is something else going on? Blogger (and ex-CIA agent) Larry Johnson says the leak was done for a specific purpose, namely to shove “Joe Biden” out of the White House. Yes, our Deep State is at it again. Why, because “Joe Biden” can no longer be trusted to even pretend he’s chief executive. (Well, maybe they shouldn’t have installed him in the first place.)

Larry also reminds us that, conveniently, an Obama-era whistleblower named Mike McCormick, who accompanied Veep Joe Biden’s delegation to Ukraine in 2014, has stepped forward to detail Biden family grifting operations there, with the help of then-aide (now National Security Advisor) Jake Sullivan. It’s like somebody is laying out a case for impeachment — or resignation. One really off-the-wall theory floating “out there” has Veep Kamala Harris being induced to take Dianne Feinstein’s senate seat (DF, 89, is very ill), and “Joe Biden” then appointing Barack Obama to be Veep — with BHO stepping back into the White House when “JB” exits (or gets exited). Note, the XXII Amendment only prohibits a person from being “elected” president more than twice. No mention of appointment. Now there’s a real Catch-22! ...

Whatever the Mike McCormick whistleblower matter means, it’s only an additional layer to the rotten onion of Biden family corruption, the millions of dollars flowing into their bank accounts from all over the planet. This treasonous business has been right in America’s face for three years. The Hunter Biden laptop alone is crammed with hard evidence of felonies that the federal justice system has willfully managed to ignore. Rep. James Comer’s House Oversight Committee sits on a raft of Biden family bank records detailing hundreds of flagged suspicious transactions. ...

In the meantime, though, we’re likely to see the collapse of the Ukraine war effort. The recriminations from that should be huge, with calls for General Milley and SecDef Austin to step down just for starters and turmoil through the Pentagon command. Imagine also the confused rage of American voters who watched over $100-billion squandered on this stupid misadventure, including the estimated $300-million that Mr. Zelensky stuffed in his pockets.

Also, in the meantime, watch the rapidly accelerating move away from the dollar in global trade settlements as many other nations lose confidence in the floundering USA. That, of course, will affect the value of the dollar. The Federal Reserve will be helpless to manage the consequences of that, and the problem will be hugely aggravated if other nations start dumping the US Treasury bonds and bills they hold. In short, at the same time the Ukraine is lost and the “Joe Biden” regime falls apart, we get a king-hell financial crisis combined with a cratering on the-ground economy. Things stop moving, including food.

Triple-also, in the meantime, the spooky question of Covid vaccine deaths rises to the previously resistant public’s attention, and they realize that they have been poisoned by their own government, now in ominous convulsion. All of this will make starkly clear that America suffers a dangerous leadership vacuum. This is not civil war. This is something else. But what?

Strange. One gets the impression that Kuntsler might regard it all as a stroke of bad luck management instead of the execution of the planned destruction of America. So, is Obama supposed to complete the task of getting us into WWIII with nukes for real? Biden has been dead for a while and Obama has become more exposed than he thought he ever would be. Will they have another fake Federal trial like Jizzlaine and Sam for a masked Biden? Only time will tell.

As far as the obvious false flag 'leak', means, motive and opportunity are still a bit up in the air. The Deep State are always acting out of preening arrogance, now, but seldom out of logic or reason. Are the corruptocrats finally getting tapped out?

An opinion cited here. Having an obvious patsy ploy does not bode well that DS isn't up to something. Maybe they want an excuse to back out of a bad situation that continues to deteriorate and this their message in a bottle, since all 'official' proclamations are obligatory lies and propaganda. Backdoor reportage?
It is interesting that Mossad is somehow fingered in the Israeli riots. Lower management making a move, or just disinfo? It's all really just more guess work until there is substantiation and things triangulate.
This is what you would call the 'pleadings' stage where the accusations are framed. The verification, proof and examination phases later.

https://t.me/riseofthenewmedia/2138

AND another opinion in the planned leak corner, with motive cited. Started with British news front that's British Intel? Always somehow winds up back with them, doesn't it?:

https://t.me/FirstAmendmentPraetorian/36771
https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1646974102618480641?ref_src=patrick.net

The crash landing with respect to us foreign policy?

You mean when they finally admit that the deep state runs foreign policy under the direction and to the pleasure of the globalists Satanic cabal?

Patrick says

This is not civil war. This is something else. But what?

We haven’t heard from the kid Texiera yet. But he could be another Snowden. THe military seems to have a lot of trouble keeping classified documents secure.

Ceffer says

As far as the obvious false flag 'leak', means,

I don’t think it is obviously anything. It seems most plausible that just like with the train derailments, explosions and hazardous materials/radioactive leaks that America is full of incompetent people who can’t seem to do anything without causing a problem of some sort.

PeopleUnited says

The crash landing with respect to us foreign policy?

You mean when they finally admit that the deep state runs foreign policy under the direction and to the pleasure of the globalists Satanic cabal?

No, it's when Ukraine gets crushed, NATO has to admit defeat, and this entire war was nothing but the mass murder of many many Ukrainians, and probably about 1/6th the number of Russians.

There's no sides to support in a war. I don't understand the purpose of propaganda, it's not like the propaganda will change anything here. Our politicians do whatever they want to do, and Russians aren't going to hear US propaganda - they LAUGH at it. This is from a RUSSIAN source, because Morgan Freeman got embarrassed and removed it:


original link

The Russians OPENLY mock US propaganda now. Just like we used to mock Russian propaganda 40 years ago.

This war was just the latest string of Neocon failures, and that's all they do, is fail. Either they're legitimately a 5th column, or they are just the most incompetent assholes ever to run our State Department. They have no reverse gear, even when it's blatantly clear they fucked up, they keep fucking up, and make it as bad as possible. What did we get out of Afghanistan, or Syria? What did we get out of Libya?

You could argue we got SOMETHING out of the Ukraine / Russian war - we ended most energy shipments to Europe. We're the suppliers now. If Russia is ENTIRELY dependent on China for export of energy, China controls the price. They're going to have to make deal with India, direct deals.

https://babylonbee.com/news/ferrari-driving-zelensky-reminds-americans-of-the-importance-of-filing-your-taxes

PeopleUnited says

We haven’t heard from the kid Texiera yet. But he could be another Snowden. THe military seems to have a lot of trouble keeping classified documents secure.

Controlled leak.

21-year old Guardsmen don't get access to big picture documents. If they do, the real story is our shitty intelligence security.