patrick.net
An Antidote to Corporate Media
1,251,734 comments by 14,930 users - Robert Sproul, WookieMan online now
invite response« First « Previous Comments 79 - 118 of 220 Next » Last » Search these comments
79
komputodo
2023 May 17, 7:36am
komputodo
2023 May 17, 7:36am
I'm not a scientist like some of you guys. As a matter of fact, i just have a HS edumacation. But i was pondering why is it that fried food is so much crispier than other type of preparations. And I started thinking it was because OILS and Fats are just a vehicle to constantly deliver 370 degree heat to 100% of the foods surface. Water can only deliver 212 degrees at sea level. Air can deliver 370 degree heat but air is a poor delivery vehicle for holding heat so it can drop instantly just by opening the oven door. Which is why air friers work better than ovens because they are a small enclosed area heated by a large heat source.
if there was another type of liquid that could be heated to 370 degrees, it would probably make food crispy also.
Am i fucked up?
if there was another type of liquid that could be heated to 370 degrees, it would probably make food crispy also.
Am i fucked up?
80
mell
2023 May 17, 7:44am
Patrick says
Just keep saying "It's safe and effective, safe and effective, safe and effective..."
They say you ingest more hexane daily via industrial/car fumes etc., but it seems like a no-go to start with if an oil needs this process just to keep longer, why expose yourself.
gabbar says
Have been doing a bit of research and it doesn't seem to be clear cut. I side with cooking with Olive Oil, Avocado Oil, and Coconut oil mostly, but I am not worried about ingesting seed oils via processed food that was cooked/fried with them. I do think soybean oil should be avoided, as it's usually heavily preprocessed, unstable and easily oxidized (plus not good for men in excess). Linoleic acid is controversial, but research is not conclusive, similar to PUFAs etc.
Brave search synopsis:
Canola oil is made by slightly heating and crushing canola seeds at a processing facility. The seeds are then flaked to release the oil. Almost all commercial canola oil is extracted using hexane solvent, which is recovered at the end of processing. The extracted oil is refined using water precipitation and organic acid to remove gums and free fatty acids, filtering to remove color, and deodorizing using steam distillation.(some text omitted to shorten quote...) ntent. Also known as low erucic acid rapeseed (LEAR) oil, it has been generally recognized as safe by the United States Food and Drug Administration.[4] Canola oil is limited by government regulation to a maximum of 2% erucic acid by weight in the US[4] and the EU,[5] with special regulations for infant food. These low levels of erucic acid do not cause harm in humans.[4][6]
Just keep saying "It's safe and effective, safe and effective, safe and effective..."
They say you ingest more hexane daily via industrial/car fumes etc., but it seems like a no-go to start with if an oil needs this process just to keep longer, why expose yourself.
gabbar says
Have been doing a bit of research and it doesn't seem to be clear cut. I side with cooking with Olive Oil, Avocado Oil, and Coconut oil mostly, but I am not worried about ingesting seed oils via processed food that was cooked/fried with them. I do think soybean oil should be avoided, as it's usually heavily preprocessed, unstable and easily oxidized (plus not good for men in excess). Linoleic acid is controversial, but research is not conclusive, similar to PUFAs etc.
81
richwicks
2023 May 17, 7:50am
richwicks
2023 May 17, 7:50am
komputodo says
You're probably smarter than all of us for that reason alone.
komputodo says
I think you're right.
You know what you could do? You could fry a small piece of meat in different oils. Safflower has a smoke point of 510F, and olive oil is only 375F. That was the widest range in temperatures I could find.
I'm not a scientist like some of you guys. As a matter of fact, i just have a HS edumacation.
You're probably smarter than all of us for that reason alone.
komputodo says
if there was another type of liquid that could be heated to 370 degrees, it would probably make food crispy also.
Am i fucked up?
I think you're right.
You know what you could do? You could fry a small piece of meat in different oils. Safflower has a smoke point of 510F, and olive oil is only 375F. That was the widest range in temperatures I could find.
82
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 May 17, 8:12am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 May 17, 8:12am
mell says
If you're ok with eating processed food, why would you care what oil its in?
We now have to avoid most desserts as well, as even organic ones tend to have sunflower lecithin. Maybe that one is ok, haven't looked into it. Interesting that Costco carries a brand of bacon without sugar, but read the ingredients, and they add sunflower oil, to BACON. Almost as if the food industry is trying to trick us into poisoning ourselves...
but I am not worried about ingesting seed oils via processed food that was cooked/fried with them.
If you're ok with eating processed food, why would you care what oil its in?
We now have to avoid most desserts as well, as even organic ones tend to have sunflower lecithin. Maybe that one is ok, haven't looked into it. Interesting that Costco carries a brand of bacon without sugar, but read the ingredients, and they add sunflower oil, to BACON. Almost as if the food industry is trying to trick us into poisoning ourselves...
83
komputodo
2023 May 17, 8:32am
komputodo
2023 May 17, 8:32am
NuttBoxer says
have you noticed that there a lots of bacon that isn't even from the belly of the hog? substituting cuts that are more plentiful and cheaper. Kinda like "boneless" chicken wings.
Interesting that Costco carries a brand of bacon without sugar
have you noticed that there a lots of bacon that isn't even from the belly of the hog? substituting cuts that are more plentiful and cheaper. Kinda like "boneless" chicken wings.
84
mell
2023 May 17, 8:44am
NuttBoxer says
Agreed, processed foods by themselves are a less healthy choice than fresh/raw foods, so the oils used are secondary. They use whatever is cheapest, bo deliberate attempt to poison. But there is also a lot of bs peddled on both sides. Palm oil has gotten a really bad rep, but mostly because of sustainability/esg bullshit, but if not adulterated it's actually quite healthy. Sunflower/Safflower is not that bad either from my initial research. I think canola and esp. soybean are to avoid, grapeseed oil likely as well. Sesame oil should be good to consume, just imo. Of course you need to keep in mind the use cases, smoke point if you're cooking etc.
mell says
but I am not worried about ingesting seed oils via processed food that was cooked/fried with them.
If you're ok with eating processed food, why would you care what oil its in?
We now have to avoid most desserts as well, as even organic ones tend to have sunflower lecithin. Maybe that one is ok, haven't looked into it. Interesting that Costco carries a brand of bacon without sugar, but read the ingredients, and they add sunflower oil, to BACON. Almost as if the food industry is trying to trick us into poisoning ourselves...
Agreed, processed foods by themselves are a less healthy choice than fresh/raw foods, so the oils used are secondary. They use whatever is cheapest, bo deliberate attempt to poison. But there is also a lot of bs peddled on both sides. Palm oil has gotten a really bad rep, but mostly because of sustainability/esg bullshit, but if not adulterated it's actually quite healthy. Sunflower/Safflower is not that bad either from my initial research. I think canola and esp. soybean are to avoid, grapeseed oil likely as well. Sesame oil should be good to consume, just imo. Of course you need to keep in mind the use cases, smoke point if you're cooking etc.
85
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 May 17, 9:11am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 May 17, 9:11am
I don't know that any of those oils we're avoiding leave us deficient in health in any way, and they might be inflaming our systems, so avoiding them doesn't have any downside. And with the high level of inflammatory disease in this country, for a while, it's gotta be coming from somewhere.
We do occasionally use Sesame and Peanut for Asian flavored dishes. Don't know that I've noticed an ill affects.
We do occasionally use Sesame and Peanut for Asian flavored dishes. Don't know that I've noticed an ill affects.
86
komputodo
2023 May 17, 9:32am
komputodo
2023 May 17, 9:32am
mell says
kinda like cheap grocery store olive oil? if not adulterated it's actually quite healthy.
but if not adulterated it's actually quite healthy.
kinda like cheap grocery store olive oil? if not adulterated it's actually quite healthy.
87
mell
2023 May 17, 9:58am
komputodo says
Probably, at the end of the day you have to trust your sources. But I doubt it's all extremely unhealthy in moderation. Every MD has their own diet to promote $$ and culprits. You can avoid most of those pitfalls if you're worried by avoiding processed foods, and eat mostly raw/cold food in general. I'm not doing this, but I probably eat more cold food than most, may have started out as laziness. But there are people who swear by it, saying it gave them great health into old age, not to prepare meals unless absolutely necessary. Eat raw as long as your stomach is up for it.
mell says
but if not adulterated it's actually quite healthy.
kinda like cheap grocery store olive oil? if not adulterated it's actually quite healthy.
Probably, at the end of the day you have to trust your sources. But I doubt it's all extremely unhealthy in moderation. Every MD has their own diet to promote $$ and culprits. You can avoid most of those pitfalls if you're worried by avoiding processed foods, and eat mostly raw/cold food in general. I'm not doing this, but I probably eat more cold food than most, may have started out as laziness. But there are people who swear by it, saying it gave them great health into old age, not to prepare meals unless absolutely necessary. Eat raw as long as your stomach is up for it.
90
rocketjoe79
2023 May 17, 11:28am
rocketjoe79
2023 May 17, 11:28am
Also, Nuts are highly recommended in moderation. You're getting a bit of oil, but not enough to worry about.
I started getting high triglycerides a few years back, and started taking fish oil pills. They didn't do a thing for me until I saw my flight surgeon. He asked my dose and I said 1000mg per day. He said it's 4k per day! Since then, my tri's have dropped 50%. If I go off, they go back up.
I think this is pretty close to Mom feeding you Cod liver oil back in the day. Little sardines on a cracker (Chicken of the Sea ) are still a favorite of mine.
I started getting high triglycerides a few years back, and started taking fish oil pills. They didn't do a thing for me until I saw my flight surgeon. He asked my dose and I said 1000mg per day. He said it's 4k per day! Since then, my tri's have dropped 50%. If I go off, they go back up.
I think this is pretty close to Mom feeding you Cod liver oil back in the day. Little sardines on a cracker (Chicken of the Sea ) are still a favorite of mine.
91
mell
2023 May 17, 11:31am
rocketjoe79 says
Out of curiosity, what did you/they consider high levels of triglycerides?
Also, Nuts are highly recommended in moderation. You're getting a bit of oil, but not enough to worry about.
I started getting high triglycerides a few years back, and started taking fish oil pills. They didn't do a thing for me until I saw my flight surgeon. He asked my dose and I said 1000mg per day. He said it's 4k per day! Since then, my tri's have dropped 50%. If I go off, they go back up.
I think this is pretty close to Mom feeding you Cod liver oil back in the day. Little sardines on a cracker (Chicken of the Sea ) are still a favorite of mine.
Out of curiosity, what did you/they consider high levels of triglycerides?
92
Blue
2023 May 17, 2:48pm
rocketjoe79 says
Check if this helps,
Dr. Pradip Jamnadas: "ONCE A DAY, it is scientifically proven!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Yem2T2r2M&patrick.net=
Also, Nuts are highly recommended in moderation. You're getting a bit of oil, but not enough to worry about.
I started getting high triglycerides a few years back, and started taking fish oil pills. They didn't do a thing for me until I saw my flight surgeon. He asked my dose and I said 1000mg per day. He said it's 4k per day! Since then, my tri's have dropped 50%. If I go off, they go back up.
I think this is pretty close to Mom feeding you Cod liver oil back in the day. Little sardines on a cracker (Chicken of the Sea ) are still a favorite of mine.
Check if this helps,
Dr. Pradip Jamnadas: "ONCE A DAY, it is scientifically proven!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Yem2T2r2M&patrick.net=
93
beershrine
2023 May 17, 4:25pm
Patrick, I use olive oil for almost everything but according to this Davis study 53-94% of the imported brands failed standard testing. Read the study and choose wisely. There is another study on Honey that is eye popping.
https://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/media/files/report2011three.pdf
https://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/media/files/report2011three.pdf
94
Eric Holder
2023 May 17, 5:20pm
Eric Holder
2023 May 17, 5:20pm
beershrine says
I used to work with an Italilan guy whose mom was some kind of "olive oil scientist" back in the old country. According to her only extra virgin olive oil is good, the "light" variety is shit because of the processing it undergoes.
Patrick, I use olive oil for almost everything but according to this Davis study 53-94% of the imported brands failed standard testing.
I used to work with an Italilan guy whose mom was some kind of "olive oil scientist" back in the old country. According to her only extra virgin olive oil is good, the "light" variety is shit because of the processing it undergoes.
95
gabbar
2023 May 18, 3:55am
Check out the comments on this video, they are gold dust
gabbar
2023 May 18, 3:55am
Check if this helps,
Dr. Pradip Jamnadas: "ONCE A DAY, it is scientifically proven!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Yem2T2r2M&patrick.net=
Check out the comments on this video, they are gold dust
96
Robert Sproul
2023 May 18, 7:22am
Seed oils are the new dietary Super Villain. My research indicates that ALL imported olive oil is suspect. Apparently it is difficult to detect and some extraordinarily high percentage is adulterated with unknown agents. I now buy only California olive oils.
Also I have switched to animal fats, lard and tallow, for all high heat applications. Highly recommended:
https://fatworks.com/
Even worse than High Fructose, seed oils seem to be THE main poison in our American Ultra-Processed Food Diet.
30-40 minutes but potentially life changing fat discussions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2UnOryQiIY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGnfXXIKZM
Also I have switched to animal fats, lard and tallow, for all high heat applications. Highly recommended:
https://fatworks.com/
Even worse than High Fructose, seed oils seem to be THE main poison in our American Ultra-Processed Food Diet.
30-40 minutes but potentially life changing fat discussions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2UnOryQiIY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGnfXXIKZM
97
komputodo
2023 May 18, 7:38am
komputodo
2023 May 18, 7:38am
richwicks says
You must be black. The reason I say this is because the only people I've ever heard that claim that they hate watermelon were blacks when speaking to white folk.
HAHA - all the top recommended are junk foods except for kale and watermelon, both of which I hate.
You must be black. The reason I say this is because the only people I've ever heard that claim that they hate watermelon were blacks when speaking to white folk.
98
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 May 18, 8:25am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 May 18, 8:25am
Buy local and buy organic. Italy exports 3x the olive oil they produce.
99
mell
2023 May 18, 8:32am
komputodo says
lol I love watermelon!
richwicks says
HAHA - all the top recommended are junk foods except for kale and watermelon, both of which I hate.
You must be black. The reason I say this is because the only people I've ever heard that claim that they hate watermelon were blacks when speaking to white folk.
lol I love watermelon!
102
RWSGFY
2023 Jul 27, 10:39am
RWSGFY
2023 Jul 27, 10:39am
Patrick says
Eh, sunflower oil is made by squeezing the seeds - I've seen the whole process. What comes out is dark and fragrant oil, not dissimilar from virgin olive oil in appearance.
So no need for any processing if virgin oil is what you want. But if you want light oil, it will have to go through processing and olive oil is no different here.
PS. This is a good example how memes can be effective ... in distorting the real picture.
Eh, sunflower oil is made by squeezing the seeds - I've seen the whole process. What comes out is dark and fragrant oil, not dissimilar from virgin olive oil in appearance.
So no need for any processing if virgin oil is what you want. But if you want light oil, it will have to go through processing and olive oil is no different here.
PS. This is a good example how memes can be effective ... in distorting the real picture.
103
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Jul 28, 9:12am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Jul 28, 9:12am
That's one see oil. So you throw out the entire meme for the exception, seriously? And I guess health isn't a concern here either, as you stop your examination at the processing phase.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-sunflower-oil-healthy#downsides
Maybe step back a bit instead of picking through the weeds next time to find a point of contention.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-sunflower-oil-healthy#downsides
Maybe step back a bit instead of picking through the weeds next time to find a point of contention.
104
Eric Holder
2023 Jul 28, 10:19am
Eric Holder
2023 Jul 28, 10:19am
NuttBoxer says
The point is obviously not "one seed oil", but rather "olive oil in its refined form is heavily processed too". The meme omits the latter completely and makes it look like olive oil requires no processing.
That's one see oil. So you throw out the entire meme for the exception, seriously?
The point is obviously not "one seed oil", but rather "olive oil in its refined form is heavily processed too". The meme omits the latter completely and makes it look like olive oil requires no processing.
105
Patrick
2023 Jul 28, 10:30am
Patrick
2023 Jul 28, 10:30am
My point in posting it was that Canola oil in particular is innately toxic, and heavily processed to get the toxicity down to a level that most people don't notice.
I don't mean that all seed oils need that much processing.
I don't mean that all seed oils need that much processing.
106
gabbar
2023 Jul 28, 10:41am
gabbar
2023 Jul 28, 10:41am
Note that whenever you are eating at any restaurant, this for profit business is most likely using seed oils to cook their food so that they can make more money. I bet if anyone saw the cheap oils they use, we could find it alarming.
107
gabbar
2023 Jul 29, 8:59am
gabbar
2023 Jul 29, 8:59am
Patrick says
Costco sells Canola oil, so do other stores. Its affordable. But I suspect that most restaurants use seed oils that are much cheaper than even Canola oil. Cotton seed oil?
My point in posting it was that Canola oil in particular is innately toxic, and heavily processed to get the toxicity down to a level that most people don't notice. I don't mean that all seed oils need that much processing.
Costco sells Canola oil, so do other stores. Its affordable. But I suspect that most restaurants use seed oils that are much cheaper than even Canola oil. Cotton seed oil?
108
RWSGFY
2023 Jul 29, 10:20am
RWSGFY
2023 Jul 29, 10:20am
Patrick says
Does anybody eat canola seeds? I don't think so. Maybe a good rule of thumb would be if you can eat the seeds the oil is more or less ok, but if you won't eat the seed the oil is probably better be avoided too.
PS. Again we see the limits of memes: just like 140-character tweets they require lengthy clarifications.
My point in posting it was that Canola oil in particular is innately toxic, and heavily processed to get the toxicity down to a level that most people don't notice.
I don't mean that all seed oils need that much processing.
Does anybody eat canola seeds? I don't think so. Maybe a good rule of thumb would be if you can eat the seeds the oil is more or less ok, but if you won't eat the seed the oil is probably better be avoided too.
PS. Again we see the limits of memes: just like 140-character tweets they require lengthy clarifications.
109
Patrick
2023 Jul 29, 12:11pm
Patrick
2023 Jul 29, 12:11pm
Good point. You cannot safely eat rapeseeds (Canola is just a marketing term to avoid the proper name, which contains the triggering word "rape") or cottonseeds.
I know memes have limits, but they also have a lot of virtues. They get to the point quickly. Most people simply don't have time to read everything.
I know memes have limits, but they also have a lot of virtues. They get to the point quickly. Most people simply don't have time to read everything.
110
gabbar
2023 Jul 29, 3:17pm
gabbar
2023 Jul 29, 3:17pm
Coconut oil is healthy and affordable but sells the least at Costco, imo. People buy other unhealthy oils. Coconut oil does give a taste to the food, I didn't like it.
111
Patrick
2023 Jul 29, 3:48pm
Patrick
2023 Jul 29, 3:48pm
I like the taste of coconut oil myself. Works well with fried Japanese sweet potato strips I think.
112
mell
2023 Jul 30, 1:01am
I'm not convinced that seed oils are bad in moderation. Sure canola is bad due to hexane et. al. But omega 6 isn't necessarily bad, it's actually shown that it helps for certain conditions, e.g. borage oils for neurodermitis. It's like with everything quality and amount that matters. That being said, I do believe they are inferior to olive, avocado or coconut oil. So if you consume a lot, better go with the latter.
113
richwicks
2023 Jul 30, 2:18am
richwicks
2023 Jul 30, 2:18am
komputodo says
No, I just don't like it. I like bananas fine. I'd say pears and pineapple are the best fruits.
richwicks says
HAHA - all the top recommended are junk foods except for kale and watermelon, both of which I hate.
You must be black. The reason I say this is because the only people I've ever heard that claim that they hate watermelon were blacks when speaking to white folk.
No, I just don't like it. I like bananas fine. I'd say pears and pineapple are the best fruits.
114
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Jul 30, 9:19pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Jul 30, 9:19pm
Eric Holder says
I hear you opinion, but it's never been corroborated by a single doctor that I've been to, or any research that I've done. And you're still getting lost in the woods with your friend. Health affects, good or bad, don't end at processing. If I follow the meme rather than your nit-picks, I will be overall healthier. I believe that's the whole point...
The point is obviously not "one seed oil", but rather "olive oil in its refined form is heavily processed too". The meme omits the latter completely and makes it look like olive oil requires no processing.
I hear you opinion, but it's never been corroborated by a single doctor that I've been to, or any research that I've done. And you're still getting lost in the woods with your friend. Health affects, good or bad, don't end at processing. If I follow the meme rather than your nit-picks, I will be overall healthier. I believe that's the whole point...
115
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Jul 30, 9:20pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Jul 30, 9:20pm
RWSGFY says
Wow, you literally just did what you blame the meme for, but your advise will lead to worse health. Again, big picture PLEASE.
Does anybody eat canola seeds? I don't think so. Maybe a good rule of thumb would be if you can eat the seeds the oil is more or less ok, but if you won't eat the seed the oil is probably better be avoided too.
PS. Again we see the limits of memes: just like 140-character tweets they require lengthy clarifications.
Wow, you literally just did what you blame the meme for, but your advise will lead to worse health. Again, big picture PLEASE.
116
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Jul 30, 9:22pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Jul 30, 9:22pm
gabbar says
Any sweets, like popcorn, pancakes are good with coconut oil. Or if you are cooking bitter vegetables and need to balance them out.
Coconut oil does give a taste to the food, I didn't like it.
Any sweets, like popcorn, pancakes are good with coconut oil. Or if you are cooking bitter vegetables and need to balance them out.
117
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Jul 30, 9:23pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Jul 30, 9:23pm
mell says
Say that again after reading the link I provided.
I'm not convinced that seed oils are bad in moderation.
Say that again after reading the link I provided.
118
mell
2023 Jul 30, 11:39pm
NuttBoxer says
I think most if not all are inferior, but it depends on the application and the individual consuming them. If you avoid high heat frying/cooking and work out a ton, the arachidonic acid produced through the oils should benefit you as it aids in producing lean body mass and enhances workouts. For the average sedentary American massive amounts of seed oils should likely be avoided.
mell says
I'm not convinced that seed oils are bad in moderation.
Say that again after reading the link I provided.
I think most if not all are inferior, but it depends on the application and the individual consuming them. If you avoid high heat frying/cooking and work out a ton, the arachidonic acid produced through the oils should benefit you as it aids in producing lean body mass and enhances workouts. For the average sedentary American massive amounts of seed oils should likely be avoided.
« First « Previous Comments 79 - 118 of 220 Next » Last » Search these comments
Which of them are worth avoiding entirely?
Here are the fats and oils I think are bad:
- margarine (which is just canola and other crap oils hardened to make them stick in your arteries better)
- canola oil
- cottonseed oil (especially bad)
- palm kernel oil
I'm undecided about these:
- soybean oil
- sunflower seed oil
- avocado oil
- coconut oil
- peanut oil
I'm sure these are pretty good for you:
- olive oil
- butter
- lard (yes, I think lard is OK to eat)